FLIK

Kobashi should have retired long long ago. He's broken down beyond repair, hasn't wrestled since Feb, hasn't wrestled anything close to full time in forever and can barely do anything when he does step in the ring. Maybe not the nicest thing but this was a smart move on NOAH's part. I suppose it would be okay if the other guys who might leave join another promotion like All Japan or Z1 but being Japan there's about a 95% chance they'd leave just to start their own company which would be idiotic and benefit no one except their own brusied egos.

Searching youtube, there's a LOT of indy wrestling War Games matches out thear, has anyone seen any they'd recomend watching?

Yeah, I see Vader as more of a Japan/international candidate then a US one. He really only has a little over 3 year run as a top guy in WCW that you could use to his credit but he was a big star in Japan for over decade in multiple big promotions that did business that dwarfed WCWs.

To be fair Goldberg wasn't over at all for the 1st couple months of his career when he was part of that weird mish mash stable Debra had with Alex Wright & was feuding with Mongo McMichael. Had WCW not wised up pretty quick & moved him off that road to no whear he could have easily ended up a nobody in wrestling.

Don't know if ppl know enough about him to realise how far he's come but Okada would be my pick with maybe Prime Time Players 2nd. Dudes had one of the weirder rises to fame I can remember in a while. He was originally an Ultimo Dragon trainee who spent the first couple years of his career bouncing around Mexico (his debut match was against Negro Navarro in a weird bit of trivia) & US indies. Then he gets picked up by New Japan, flounders around the mid card for a bit, gets sent to TNA whear he's treated as a lower card comedy geek. He then comes back to NJPW, immegiatly gets pushed to the main event, has the title hot shotted onto him & somehow manages to take off & become like the 2nd biggest star in the company. I'd probably have Tanahashi/Okada as feud on the year & Jado/Gedo as best bookers too. I've always been a guy who's liked Japanese indies more then the mainstream companies but right now i'm looking more forward to Oakada/Tanahashi at the dome then I have any match in forever and am actually going out of my way to watch the big New Japan shows as soon as I can of late. Tensai because when used a certain way he can be awesome & I think he gets unfairly shit on far too much by a lot of ppl. He was doomed from the start with that stupid gimmick though and it's all been down hill since then.

It did & didn't. 0.6 - 0.7 was about the average for a Hogan "B" show which is what WCW was doing at the start of the year then things droped big time, down to 0.4 range for the 2 PPVs before the NWO came along which were headlined by the Giant vs Sting & then vs Luger (Giant also bombed vs Hogan at the 1st Souled Out PPV). So the NWO did bump things back up but just back to whear they used to be a few months before. Also should be noted that the Hog/Road wild PPVs never drew big except for the year Leno came in. The first big buy rates for WCW during the NWO days didn't come until late 96 & early 97 with the Hogan/Piper feud.

I included them mostly because often times shows aren't built around just 1 single match as the big draw. As an unintended side effect it also kinda shows that a lot of stuff whear Sting wasn't the main event didn't do much better then the shows when he was, like when Flair came back & was headlining agian in 93/94. Hogan coming in spiked things HUGE. Some of his shows drew 2x what the typical WCW average was at the time. One interesting thing though I did kind of discover was that Hogan on his own wasn't enough to do it. For his first couple of years before the NWO he only really drew well against the other big name established WCW guys at the time in singles matches and when he was in any other situation he only did the same or just slightly better then anyone else WCW had on top. Hogan/Flair was big in 94, Hogan vs Beefcake didn't do squat compared to Hogan vs others, Hogan/Vader was big, Hogan/Savage vs Vader/Flair didn't do super well surprisingly, Hogan & buddies vs Dungeon of Doom gimmick matches didn't do well, Hogan vs Giant didn't do well, Giant in generall was death on top when he debued actually.

Same deal for Clash of the Champions cards Clash of the Champions March 27, 1988 in Greensboro, NC Greensboro Coliseum drawing 6,000 Shown live on TBS (5.8) NWA World Champ Ric Flair drew Sting (45:00). Gary Juster, Sandy Scott, and Penthouse Pet Patty Mullins were the judges. Clash of the Champions II "Miami Mayhem" June 8, 1988 in Miami, FL James L Knight Center drawing 2,400 Shown live on TBS (4.8) NWA Tag Champs Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard DDQ Sting & Dusty Rhodes (10:58) Clash of the Champions III "Fall Brawl" September 7, 1988 in Albany, GA Civic Center drawing 3,700 Shown live on TBS (5.4) Sting beat NWA U.S. Champ Barry Windham (21:14) via DQ. Clash of the Champions VIII "Fall Brawl" September 12, 1989 in Columbia, SC USC Carolina Coliseum drawing 2,600 Shown live on TBS (4.7) Sting & Ric Flair beat Dick Slater & The Great Muta (19:16) via DQ. Clash of the Champions XII "Fall Brawl/Mountain Madness" September 5, 1990 in Asheville, NC Civic Center drawing 4,000 Shown live on TBS (5.0) NWA World Champ Sting pinned The Black Scorpion (Al Perez) (8:13). Clash of the Champions XVII November 19, 1991 in Savannah, GA Civic Center drawing 6,922 Shown live on TBS (4.3) Rick Rude pinned Sting (4:50) to win the WCW U.S. Title. WCW World Champ Lex Luger pinned Rick Steiner (11:30). Clash of the Champions XVIII January 21, 1992 in Topeka, KS Expocenter drawing 5,500 ($24,000) Shown live on TBS (3.7) Sting & Ricky Steamboat beat Steve Austin & Rick Rude (11:21) when Sting pinned Austin. Clash of the Champions XX "20th Anniversary" September 2, 1992 in Atlanta, GA Center Stage drawing 500 ($4,000) Shown live on TBS (3.7) Rick Rude, Jake Roberts, Super Invader, & Big Van Vader beat Sting, Nikita Koloff, Rick & Scott Steiner (15:57) in an "elimination" match. Rude & Roberts were the survivors. Clash of the Champions XXI November 18, 1992 in Macon, GA Macon Coliseum drawing 7,500 Shown live on TBS (3.2) Sting drew Rick Rude (20:00). This was a King of Cable Tournament match. Sting advanced via decision. Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas beat Barry Windham & Dustin Rhodes (15:52) to win the NWA & WCW Tag Title when Douglas pinned Windham. Clash of the Champions XXII January 13, 1993 in Milwaukee, WI Mecca Arena drawing 4,000 ($14,000) Shown live on TBS (2.9) Dustin Rhodes, Sting, & Cactus Jack beat Big Van Vader, Paul Orndorff, & Barry Windham (11:22) in a "steel cage" match when Cactus pinned Orndorff. Clash of the Champions XXIII June 16, 1993 in Norfolk, VA The Scope drawing 6,000 ($20,000) Shown live on TBS (2.6) Big Van Vader, Sid Vicious, & Rick Rude beat Dustin Rhodes, Sting, & Davey Smith (10:59) when Rude pinned Rhodes. Ric Flair & Arn Anderson beat NWA & WCW Tag Champs Brian Pillman & Steve Austin (20:45) in two straight falls. Flair pinned Pillman (9:40). Pillman & Austin were DQed (20:45). Clash of the Champions XXV November 10, 1993 in St Petersburg, FL Bayfront Center drawing 6,000 ($17,000) Shown live on TBS (3.3) The Nasty Boys beat Sting & Davey Smith when Knobbs pinned Smith (8:30). Ric Flair beat WCW World Champ Vader (9:24) via DQ. Clash of the Champions XXVI January 27, 1994 in Baton Rouge, LA Riverside Centroplex drawing 3,200 ($21,000) Shown live on TBS (3.5) Sting & Ric Flair beat Vader & Rick Rude (22:27) in an "elimination" match. Sting was the survivor. Flair and Vader were counted out. Sting pinned Rude (22:07). Clash of the Champions XXVII June 23, 1994 in Charleston, SC North Charleston Coliseum drawing 6,700 ($42,000) Shown live on TBS (3.0) WCW World Champ Ric Flair pinned Sting (17:17) to win the WCW International World Title. Clash of the Champions XXIX November 16, 1994 in Jacksonville, FL Jacksonville Coliseum drawing 4,000 ($38,000) Shown live on TBS (3.6) Hulk Hogan, Sting, & Dave Sullivan beat The Butcher, Avalanche, & Kevin Sullivan (10:55) when Hogan pinned Sullivan. Mr. T was the special referee. Clash of the Champions XXX January 25, 1995 in Las Vegas, NV Caeser's Palace drawing 3,200 ($21,000) Shown live on TBS (3.5) Sting beat Avalanche (5:22) via submission. Hulk Hogan & Randy Savage beat Kevin Sullivan & The Butcher (11:04) when Hogan pinned The Butcher. Clash of the Champions XXXIII August 15, 1996 in Denver, CO Denver Coliseum drawing 8,304 ($70,111) Shown live on TBS (3.5) WCW Tag Champs Harlem Heat NC Rick & Scott Steiner and Sting & Lex Luger (13:22) in a "triangle" match. Ric Flair beat WCW World Champ Hulk Hogan (8:23) via DQ. Other notable big shows Monday Nitro January 5, 1998 in Atlanta, GA Georgia Dome drawing 26,773 ($510,610) Shown live on TNT (4.3) Sting & Lex Luger beat Hulk Hogan & Randy Savage. Boston Brawl January 31, 1998 in Boston, MA Fleet Center drawing 18,759 ($325,154) Live Audio on Internet PPL Sting pinned Hulk Hogan in a "steel cage" match. Monday Nitro February 2, 1998 in San Antonio, TX AlamoDome drawing 21,000 ($446,000) Shown live on TNT (4.9) Randy Savage beat Sting via DQ. February 26, 1999 in San Antonio, TX AlamoDome drawing 14,653 Sting beat Bret Hart. Bill Goldberg beat Bam Bam Bigelow 1st Annual Ilio DiPaolo Memorial June 7, 1996 in Buffalo, NY War Memorial Auditorium drawing 14,852 ($193,456) WCW World Champ The Giant beat Sting (7:09) via DQ. 4th Annual Ilio DiPaolo Memorial June 11, 1999 in Buffalo, NY Midland Arena drawing 10,034 ($126,177) Sting beat Diamond Dallas Page. Monday Nitro June 21, 1999 in New Orleans, LA Superdome drawing17,249 ($346,424) Shown live on TNT (3.1) Sting NC Randy Savage Monday Nitro May 8, 2000 in St. Louis, MO TWA Dome drawing 6,545 Shown live on TNT (2.8) WCW World Champ Jeff Jarrett pinned Sting.

Was bored, wanted to see was Sting REALLY that much of a failure on top, decided to make a list of every PPV Sting was on whear he main evented or was atleast semi-main. This took me like 15 mins tops. Info is from prowrestlinghistory.com My conclusion, when the company was crap & he was on top he couldn't dig them out of the hole but very few others did any better in the same time frame & things would have probably been much worse had he not been around. When the company was hot & he was on top he did great. There was a lot more instances of the former then the later. Starrcade 1988 "True Gritt" December 26, 1988 in Norfolk, VA The Scope drawing 10,000 ($150,000) Shown live on PPV (1.8) Dusty Rhodes & Sting beat NWA Tag Champs The Road Warriors (11:20) via DQ. NWA World Champ Ric Flair pinned Lex Luger (30:59). Halloween Havoc 1989 "Settling the Score" October 28, 1989 in Philadelphia, PA Civic Center drawing 7,300 ($104,234) Shown live on PPV (1.77) Ric Flair & Sting (seconded by Ole Anderson) beat The Great Muta & Terry Funk (seconded by Gary Hart) (21:55) in a "thunderdome" match when Hart threw in the towel. Bruno Sammartino was the special referee. Starrcade 1989 "Future Shock/Night of the Iron Men" December 13, 1989 in Atlanta, GA The Omni drawing 6,000 ($70,000) Shown live on PPV (1.3) Sting pinned Ric Flair (14:30) to win the Iron Man Tournament. The Great American Bash 1990 "The New Revolution" July 7, 1990 in Baltimore, MD Baltimore Arena drawing 10,000 ($153,000) Shown live on PPV (1.7) Sting pinned Ric Flair (16:06) to win the NWA World Title. Halloween Havoc 1990 "Terror Rules the Ring" October 27, 1990 in Chicago, IL UIC Pavilion drawing 8,000 ($115,000) Shown live on PPV (1.3) NWA World Champ Sting pinned Sid Vicious (12:38). Starrcade 1990 "Collision Course" December 16, 1990 in St Louis, MO Kiel Auditorium in 7,200 ($93,425) Shown live on PPV (1.3) NWA World Champ Sting pinned Black Scorpion (18:31) in a "steel cage" match. Dick the Bruiser was the special referee. WrestleWar 1991 "WarGames" February 24, 1991 in Phoenix, AZ Memorial Coliseum drawing 6,800 ($53,000) Shown live on PPV (1.2) The Four Horsemen (Flair, Windham, Vicious, & Zbysko) beat Sting, Brian Pillman, Rick & Scott Steiner (21:50) in a "wargames" match when Pillman was KOed by Vicious. WCW/New Japan Supershow Taped March 21, 1991 in Tokyo, Japan Shown April 1991 on PPV (0.6) Great Muta pinned Sting (11:41). IWGP Champ Tatsumi Fujinami pinned WCW World Champ Ric Flair (23:06) to win the NWA World Title. The WCW and NWA World Titles were acknowledged as separate championships in Japan (unlike the US). The Great American Bash 1991 July 14, 1991 in Baltimore, MD Baltimore Arena drawing 7,000 ($99,000) Shown live on PPV (1.0) Nikita Koloff beat Sting (11:38) in a "Russian chain" match. Lex Luger pinned Barry Windham (12:25) in a "steel cage" match to win the vacant WCW World Title. Rick Steiner & Missy Hyatt beat Arn Anderson & Paul E Dangerously (2:08) in a "steel cage" match when Steiner pinned Dangerously Starrcade 1991 "BattleBowl/The Lethal Lottery" December 29, 1991 in Norfolk, VA The Scope drawing 9,000 ($92,000) Shown live on PPV (1.0) Sting won a "two-ring battle royal" (25:10). All of the winners of the tag team bouts were in the match. WCW/New Japan Supershow II Taped January 4, 1992 in Tokyo, Japan Shown March 1992 on PPV (no buy rate listed) Sting & Keiji Mutoh beat Rick & Scott Steiner (11:03) when Sting pinned Scott. SuperBrawl II February 29, 1992 in Milwaukee, WI Mecca Arena drawing 5,000 ($67,000) Shown live on PPV (0.96) Sting pinned Lex Luger (13:02) to win the WCW World Title. WrestleWar 1992 "WarGames" May 17, 1992 in Jacksonville, FL Jacksonville Coliseum drawing 6,000 ($72,000) Shown live on PPV (0.61) Sting, Nikita Koloff, Dustin Rhodes, Ricky Steamboat, & Barry Windham beat Arn Anderson, Bobby Eaton, Steve Austin, Larry Zbysko, & Rick Rude (23:27) in a "wargames" match when Sting forced Eaton to submit. The Great American Bash 1992 July 12, 1992 in Albany, GA Civic Center drawing 8,000 ($45,000) Shown live on PPV (0.4) Big Van Vader pinned Sting (17:17) to win the WCW World Title. Terry Gordy & Steve Williams beat Dustin Rhodes & Barry Windham (21:10) to win the vacant NWA Tag Title when Williams pinned Rhodes. Halloween Havoc 1992 "Spin the Wheel, Make the Deal" October 25, 1992 in Philadelphia, PA Civic Center drawing 7,000 ($75,000) Shown live on PPV (0.9) Sting pinned Jake Roberts (10:34) in a "coal miner's glove" match. WCW/New Japan Supershow III Taped January 4, 1993 in Tokyo Japan Shown March 1993 on PPV Sting pinned Hiro Hase (15:31). SuperBrawl III February 21, 1993 in Asheville, NC Civic Center drawing 6,500 Shown live on PPV (0.5) Big Van Vader beat Sting (20:54) in a "leather strap" match. Fall Brawl 1993 "WarGames" September 19, 1993 in Houston, TX Astro Arena drawing 6,000 ($33,000) Shown live on PPV (0.46) Sting, Davey Smith, Dustin Rhodes, & The Shockmaster beat Sid Vicious, Vader, & Harlem Heat (16:39) in a "wargames" match when The Shockmaster forced Kole to submit. Beach Blast 1993 July 18, 1993 in Biloxi, MS Gulf Coast Coliseum drawing 8,600 ($33,000) Shown live on PPV (0.5) Sting & Davey Smith beat Big Van Vader & Sid Vicious (16:44) when Smith pinned Vader. Starrcade 1993 December 27, 1993 in Charlotte, NC Independence Arena drawing 8,200 ($62,000) Shown live on PPV (0.55) Sting & Road Warrior Hawk beat WCW Tag Champs The Nasty Boys (29:11) via DQ. Ric Flair pinned Vader (21:11) to win the WCW World Title. SuperBrawl IV February 20, 1994 in Albany, GA Civic Center drawing 7,600 ($39,000) Shown live on PPV (0.5) Sting, Brian Pillman, & Dustin Rhodes beat Steve Austin, Rick Rude, & Paul Orndorff (14:36) in a "thundercage" match when Pillman pinned Austin. WCW World Champ Ric Flair beat Vader (11:32) via submission in a "thundercage" match. The Boss was the special referee. Slamboree 1994 "A Legends Reunion" May 22, 1994 in Philadelphia, PA Civic Center drawing 4,000 ($53,000) Shown live on PPV (0.48) Sting pinned Vader (13:54) to win the vacant WCW International World Title. Fall Brawl 1994 "WarGames" September 18, 1994 in Roanoke, VA Civic Center drawing 6,500 ($61,000) Shown live on PPV (0.53) Vader beat Sting and The Guardian Angel (30:22)in a "triangular" match. Vader pinned The Guardian Angel (7:04). Vader pinned Sting (30:22). The Nasty Boys, Dusty & Dustin Rhodes beat Terry Funk, Arn Anderson, Bunkhouse Buck, & Robert Parker (19:05) in a "wargames" match when Dusty forced Parker to submit. Starrcade 1994 "Triple Threat" December 27, 1994 in Nashville, TN Municipal Auditorium drawing 8,200 ($82,000) Shown live on PPV (0.6) Mr. T pinned Kevin Sullivan (3:50). Sting beat Avalanche (15:26) via DQ. WCW World Champ Hulk Hogan pinned The Butcher (12:07). SuperBrawl V February 19, 1995 in Baltimore, MD Baltimore Arena drawing 13,390 ($165,000) Shown live on PPV (0.95) Sting & Randy Savage beat Avalanche & Big Bubba Rogers (10:18) when Sting pinned Avalanche. WCW World Champ Hulk Hogan beat Vader (15:10) via DQ. Slamboree 1995 "A Legends Reunion" May 21, 1995 in St. Petersburg, FL Bayfront Center drawing 7,000 ($94,000) Shown live on PPV (0.57) Sting beat Big Bubba Rogers (9:29) via submission. Hulk Hogan & Randy Savage beat Ric Flair & Vader (18:57) when Hogan pinned Flair. The Great American Bash 1995 June 18, 1995 in Dayton, OH Hara Arena drawing 6,000 ($63,000) Shown live on PPV (0.51) Sting pinned Meng (13:34) to win the vacant WCW U.S. Title. Ric Flair pinned Randy Savage (14:42). Fall Brawl 1995 "WarGames" September 17, 1995 in Asheville, NC Civic Center drawing 6,600 ($72,000) Shown live on PPV (0.48) Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, Lex Luger, & Sting beat Kamala, Zodiac, Shark, & Meng (18:47) in a "wargames" match when Hogan forced Zodiac to submit. World War 3 1995 November 26, 1995 in Norfolk, VA The Scope drawing 12,000 ($113,000) Shown live on PPV (0.43) Sting beat Ric Flair (14:30) via submission. Randy Savage won a "three ring battle royal" (29:40) to win the vacant WCW World Title. Starrcade 1995 "World Cup of Wrestling" December 27, 1995 in Nashville, TN Municipal Auditorium drawing 8,200 ($83,855) Shown live on PPV (0.36) Sting (WCW) pinned Kensuke Sasaki (NJ) (6:52) to win the World Cup of Wrestling 4-3. Ric Flair beat Lex Luger and Sting (28:03) via countout in a "triangle" match. Ric Flair pinned Randy Savage (8:41) to win the WCW World Title. Uncensored 1996 March 24, 1996 in Tupelo, MS Tupelo Coliseum drawing 9,000 ($104,000) Shown live on PPV (0.7) Sting & Booker T beat The Road Warriors (29:33) in a "Chicago street fight" when Booker pinned Hawk. Hulk Hogan & Randy Savage beat Ric Flair, Arn Anderson, Meng, Barbarian, Lex Luger, Kevin Sullivan, Ze Gangsta, & The Ultimate Solution (25:16) in a "tower of doom" match when Savage pinned Flair. Slamboree 1996 "Lord of the Ring" May 19, 1996 in Baton Rouge, LA The Riverside Centroplex drawing 7,791 ($104,760) Shown live on PPV (0.44) WCW World Champ The Giant pinned Sting (10:41). Bash at the Beach 1996 July 7, 1996 in Daytona Beach, FL Ocean Center drawing 8,300 ($72,000) Shown live on PPV (0.71) Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, & Hulk Hogan NC Randy Savage, Sting, & Lex Luger (16:00). Hogg Wild 1996 August 10, 1996 in Sturgis, SD Sturgis Rally & Race drawing 5,000 ($0) Shown live on PPV (0.62) Scott Hall & Kevin Nash beat Lex Luger & Sting (14:36) when Hall pinned Luger. Hulk Hogan pinned The Giant (14:55) to win the WCW World Title. Fall Brawl 1996 "WarGames" September 15, 1996 in Winston-Salem, NC Lawrence Joel Coliseum drawing 11,300 ($153,914) Shown live on PPV (0.65) Hulk Hogan, Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, & NWO Sting beat Lex Luger, Ric Flair, Arn Anderson, & Sting (18:15) in a "wargames" match when NWO Sting forced Luger to submit Starrcade 1997 December 28, 1997 in Washington, D.C. MCI Center drawing 17,500 ($543,000) Shown live on PPV (1.9) Sting beat Hulk Hogan (12:54) via submission to win the WCW World Title. SuperBrawl VIII February 22, 1998 in San Fransisco, CA Cow Palace drawing 12,620 ($310,974) Shown live on PPV (1.1) Sting pinned Hulk Hogan (16:32) to win the vacant WCW World Title. Uncensored 1998 March 15, 1998 in Mobile, AL Civic Center drawing 7,474 ($150,135) Shown live on PPV (1.1) WCW World Champ Sting pinned Scott Hall (8:28). Hulk Hogan NC Randy Savage (16:21) in a "steel cage" match. Spring Stampede 1998 April 19, 1998 in Denver, CO Denver Coliseum drawing 7,428 ($235,251) Shown live on PPV (0.72) Randy Savage pinned Sting (10:08) to win the WCW World Title. Slamboree 1998 May 17, 1998 in Worcester, MA The Centrum drawing 11,592 ($352,035) Shown live on PPV (0.72) Sting & The Giant beat Kevin Nash & Scott Hall (14:46) to win the WCW Tag Title when Giant pinned Nash. The Great American Bash 1998 June 14, 1998 in Baltimore, MD Baltimore Arena drawing 12,810 ($289,345) Shown live on PPV (0.75) Sting pinned The Giant (6:40). As a result Sting was allowed to choose a partner to become WCW Tag Champs as he and The Giant had joined opposing NWO factions. Sting chose Kevin Nash. Road Wild 1998 August 8, 1998 in Sturgis, SD Sturgis Rally & Race drawing 8,500 ($0) Shown live on PPV (0.93) Bill Goldberg won a "battle royal" (7:58). Also in the match were: The Giant, Scott Hall, Curt Hennig, Konnan, Lex Luger, Kevin Nash, Scott Norton, and Sting. Diamond Dallas Page & Jay Leno (seconded by Kevin Eubanks) beat Hulk Hogan & Eric Bischoff (14:34) when Leno pinned Bischoff. Travis Tritt mini-concert. Fall Brawl 1998 "WarGames" September 13, 1998 in Winston-Salem, NC Lawrence Joel Coliseum drawing 11,528 ($218,780) Shown live on PPV (0.70) Diamond Dallas Page pinned Stevie Ray (20:06) to win "wargames." Also in the match were: Bret Hart, Hulk Hogan, Lex Luger, Kevin Nash, Roddy Piper, Sting, and Ultimate Warrior Fall Brawl 1999 September 12, 1998 in Winston-Salem, NC Lawrence Joel Coliseum drawing 7,491 ($97,600) Shown live on PPV (0.29) Sting pinned Hulk Hogan (13:55) to win the WCW World Title Spring Stampede 1999 April 11, 1999 in Tacoma, WA Tacoma Dome drawing 17,690 ($582,230) Shown live on PPV (0.6) Diamond Dallas Page beat Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan, & Sting (17:27) in a "four corners" match to win the WCW World Title. Randy Savage was the special referee. Slamboree 1999 May 9, 1999 in St. Louis, MO TWA Arena drawing 20,516 ($494,795) Shown live on PPV (0.45) Sting NC Bill Goldberg (8:17). Kevin Nash pinned Diamond Dallas Page (16:45) to win the WCW World Title. Bash at the Bash 1999 July 11, 1999 in Ft. Lauderdale, FL National Car Rental Center drawing 13,624 ($444,737) Shown live on PPV (0.4) Randy Savage & Sid Vicious beat Kevin Nash & Sting (13:21) when Savage pinned Nash. As a result savage won the WCW World Title. Halloween Havoc 1999 October 24, 1999 in Las Vegas, NV MGM Grand Garden Arena drawing 8,464 ($314,000) Shown live on PPV (0.52) Bill Goldberg pinned Sting (3:08) to win the WCW World Title. Spring Stampede 2000 April 16, 2000 in Chicago, IL United center drawing 12,556 ($272,930) Shown live on PPV (0.25) Scott Steiner pinned Sting (5:33) to win the vacant WCW U.S. Title. Jeff Jarrett pinned Diamond Dallas Page (15:02) to win the vacant WCW World Title. Great American Bash 2000 June 11, 2000 in Baltimore, MD Baltimore Arena drawing 7,031 ($154,445) Shown live on PPV (0.19) Vampiro beat Sting (7:23) in an "inferno" match. WCW World Champ Jeff Jarrett pinned Kevin Nash (17:22). Halloween Havoc 2000 October 29, 2000 in Las Vegas, NV MGM Grand Garden Arena drawing 7,582 ($212,698) Shown live on PPV (0.15) Jeff Jarrett pinned Sting (14:38). WCW World Champ Booker T beat Scott Steiner (13:27) via DQ. Bill Goldberg beat Bryan Adams & Bryan Clark (3:35) in a "handicap" match. Goldberg pinned Clark (2:25). Goldberg pinned Adams (3:35). Millennium Final November 16, 2000 in Oberhausen, Germany Arena Oberhausen drawing 9,000 Shown live on German PPV WCW European Cup Champ Sting beat Kevin Nash via submission. Boxer Axel Schultz was the guest referee.

When I went on a big Volk Han marathon a few months back these are the ones that stood out to me as his greatest stuff 11-18-1993 Volk Han vs Nikolai Zouev 06-29-1996 Volk Han vs Mitsuya Nagai 09-25-1996 Volk Han vs Kiyoshi Tamura 01-22-1997 Volk Han vs Kiyoshi Tamura 09-26-1997 Volk Han vs Kiyoshi Tamura Do that many ppl call it UWF style? I guess a few do but i've almost always heard it labled shoot style myself. Also do you want this limited to just the above mentioned groups or is this open for Battlarts & others too?

Amazing Kong/Kharma is on the most recent Women of Wrestling podcast http://ringbellesonline.com/category/podcast/ Talks about her entire WWE run, getting signed, what happened while she was thear, the pregnancy, getting released & her recent return to wrestling. Not 100% open about everything with a lot of "you'll have to wait for the book" type answers but she's open enough about most of it that you can read between the lines & it's a really good interesting listen. She says the door to return to WWE is still open if she can get in better shape & get her head back into things, though not in those words. Also talks about how she was def a "HHH project" which got me thinking, who else could be dubed a HHH guy/girl as far as wrestlers he's personally taken an interest in grooming/signing/booking. Kharma, Sin Cara, Sheamus, Orton, Batista, anyone else? Those 5 alone actually do kinda make for an impressive track record even if they all haven't turned out as well as could be hoped, for various reasons. What is this...I don't even...? .....originall Repo Man song was tottally better

Some AJW recomendations, not stuff I felt strongly enough about to push for the set but I think makes good supplimental viewing 5/13/1990 (Kickboxing) Madusa vs Aja Kong Pretty clearly a work and thankfully it's aired in full. Atleast I think it's a work, I mean you can't work side headlocks, step up enzugiris, atomic drops and back suplexes in a real fight rite....RITE???? OK then. Anyways, for a fake fight they still threw some real ass punches and kicks, Aja goes most of the way with hugely bloody nose. They jump each other before the bell even rings and it's a non stop hate fest till the end so good stuff. They go the distance and Madusa ends up winning via judges decision which Aja takes none too kindly and all hell breaks loose post match, ending with her getting drug to the back kicking & screaming. 11/14/1990 (Lucha Libre Rules Elimination Match) Hyper Cat, La Diabolica, Miori Kamiya & Mayumi Yamamoto vs Esther Moreno, Xochitl Hamada, Takako Inoue & Noriyo Tateno Essentially just one giant long fast paced high spot which is fine if done well and this was great. Doesn't go super long but they pack enough in that you don't even notice and nothing feels overly rushed or anything. Comes down to Kamiya vs Tateno for the finish at which point things switch from being a lucha sprint to a joshi sprint but it still fits well with the rest of the match. Kamiya gets the big win after 12-13 mins. This was my 2nd favorite match on the show originally and while I wouldn't call it that anymore it still holds up really well. 11/14/1990 Los Brazos vs Gran Hamada, Kendo & Yoshihiro Asai Lucha invasion continues. Gran Hamada was awesome, Ultimo was really good and Oro & El Brazo were fine too but this match was the fucking Super Porky & Kendo show. Kendo was allready like the most over guy going into the match and is one of the most spectacular wrestlers i've ever seen and by the end Porky won them over huge as well with his fat guy flying. Still blown away by some of the stuff they manage to pull off here, perfect blend of comedy & serious action and a great match period. And from Hamada's UWF 3/5/90 - Xochitl Hamada & Kaoru Maeda vs Aja Kong & Bison Kimura Starts out a little bit similar to the 3/1 tag. Kaoru & Hamada get in bigger stretches of offense then Mika & Hamada did but the early going is still largely heel dominated. Hamada & Bison really clicked here for the 1st time and had some great exchanges and a nutty Flair/Garvin level chop war. Ending comes when all 4 get in the ring and they go for one of those complicated lucha sequences whear everyone's doing mirror spots at opposite ends of the ring and there's a bunch of heel miscomunicaion stuff. Sorta falls apart a little at this stage but they recover nicely and bodies go flying all over in a cool dive train. Back inside Kaoru & Hamada score the win with tandem roll ups on their opponents. Overall a damn good match and the 1st to really show off how good the AJW girls could be. 11/9/90 Kaoru Maeda & Mika Takahashi vs Xochitl Hamada & Esther Moreno More Esther Moreno is always great in my book. Somewhear along the way Honey wings seemed to have developed some bad blood with the luchadoras as they rush the ring and attack before the intros even start then throw their oppenents out into the crowd. Back inside both Kaoru & Takahashi run through some cool highspots with Moreno before things slow down and the Moreno/Hamada team gains controll. Only last a couple mins as they go right back to fast more fast paced back & forth action. After a couple double teams including a pretty sweet stereo elbow drop on Moreno, Kaoru gets the win over her with a german. Damn good match, whole thing only last maybe 10 mins but they packed a lot in. Excited to see the 2 rematches they have a couple days after this. Kaoru & Takahashi get in a few exsta punts to Moreno's head as they leave just because. Moreno & Hamada give ref Yamaguchi a giant back body drop before making their exit...just because 11/10/1990 - Kaoru Maeda & Mika Takahashi vs Xochitl Hamada & Esther Moreno Bit of a weak follow up to the match the day before. More just a standard tag match with Moreno & Hamada going for fast paced flippy stuff and the Honey Wings slowing it down with mat work. Near the end team luchadora have a bit of miscomunication and get in a shoving match after accidenly hitting each other. Kaoru & Takahashi take advantage and are able to finish off Xochitl pretty easyily after isolating her. Takahashi gets the W with a big superplex. 11/12/1990 - Kaoru Maeda & Mika Takahashi vs Xochitl Hamada & Esther Moreno A mix between their previous two matches. Like the first match it starts pretty hot with Kaoru & Mika again running out to jump them then when things settle down we get a long matwork section. Bit hard to focus at times due to the camera angle but this is a 21 year old fan cam so beggers can't be choosers. Moreno & Mika are really good during this part. The action picks back up once the lucha girls get in a big series of highspots , they miss a pair of dives outside which leads to some pretty nice brawling around the building for a while. Back inside we get a little more matwork before going into the finish which is a bit of a repeat of the last match only this time it's Moreno eating a giant double superplex. Post match Hamada goes nuts on Moreno beating her down with a chair, the Honey Wings leave at first not caring but Hamada keeps beating her down, including giving Moreno a tombstone on the chair until finally Kaoru & Mika begrudgingly make the save. Damn good match, bit of a toss up between for which is better, this or the first but I slightly lean towards 11/9 however. Sadly there's no footage of any Hamada vs Moreno singles matches that may have come out of this as i'm sure that'd be a great pairing opposite each other.

KENTA accepted Onita's challenge but (wisely) wants it to be a 6 man tag so we're getting KENTA, Maybach Taniguchi & Yoshihiro Yakayama vs Onita & 2 others.

yeah, he's been pretty active this year, feuding with Akebono & a bunch of other guys in Zero-1, feuding with Tiger Mask 1/Sayama & Choshu in Real Japan, promoting his own shows & popping up on a lot of random indies. Had a tag death match vs Mr Pogo a few months ago that drew a little under 1000 ppl on a W*ING nostalgia show, teamed with Mayumi Ozaki vs Kana & Riki Ishin, etc....

Atsushi Onita invaded NOAH's office building today and challenged KENTA to a match on NOAH's 12/9 show....... I have no clue what to make of this but i'm amused at Onita still finding ways to be relevant in multiple promotions in 2012

Out of any possible combination on the roster Punk vs Taker is by far the #1 match i'd want to see but ONLY if Punk is still champ. 500+ day title run vs Taker's streak would be huge and it'd create doubt over the winner because everyone "knows" at this point Taker only works once a year and if he won he'd have to come back on a semi reg basis again. Rock & Cena don't need the belt near as much and Taker vs Punk would mean a hell of a lot less without it. Plus if Punk did hold the belt until Mania he'd pass Austin for most days with the title over combined reigns by 1 or 2 days

Also think this has a LOT more to do with ppl just being pissed at who's getting in then it does with not liking the criteria because active guys have been going in since the HoF started & I don't recall this same amount of backlash over guys like Misawa, Kawada, Great Muta, Liger, Hashimoto, Savage, Hogan, Flair, etc... who were all still competing regularly at the time they were inducted and got put in as soon as they were elligable for it. Nah, not in my case anyway. I think those 3 all belong in. I just think they were on the ballot earlier than they should be. I can't speak to the Japanese guys because I only have a cursory knowledge of puro, I don't know what year/age any of them hit the ballot, if they got in on first vote etc, but I don't doubt any of their candidacies. The HOF and wrestling as a whole is a lot different than when Savage, Hogan and Flair were inducted. It needs to change with the times. All the Japanese guys I named all got in the 1st year they reached the 15 year mark to become elligable. Liger & Muta are still wrestling today 12-13 years later, Misawa & Hash would probably still be wrestling too had they not passed away. Kawada is unofficially retired but was still active up until a couple years ago. Hogan got in in the 1st class of 96 at which point he was only a few months into the NWO angle which was arguably the 2nd biggest run of his entire career. Savage & Flair had big runs post 96 too. Which again goes back to my point. When ppl were being voted in that are universally considered strong, no brainer candidates not many ppl were complaining about the criteria. Now that others who are more diviseve candidates that some may not like as much are being voted in or atleast being put on the ballot under the exact same criteria ppl want to change the rules. The US wrestling sceen collapsing in the the early 2000's and Japan pretty much universally screwing up the entire post 90's generation of guys who were supposed to take over from the 90's stars screwed things up for a while as far as making new stars went but there will always be guys who emerge from the ashes as strong candidates so i'm not too worried about there being a lack of quality new inducties in the future.

At first I thought you meant Buddy Rose then I remembered he passed away then I assumed you were talking about Pete Rose instead. Above pic is so blurry on first glance I thought that was Gail Kim, Al Bundy & Dixie Carter and was wondering WTF?

It's 35 years old with 10 years experience or under 35 years old with 15 years experience. That's plenty of time to have a HoF lvl career. The entirety of Steve Austin's career was only 14 years, The Rock was only around as an active wrestler 7-8 years. If John Cena never wrestles another day in his life is he NOT a worthy of being inducted in? I just don't think that if the only reason you can come up with not to vote for a guy is that he's too young then that's not a very good reason. Also think this has a LOT more to do with ppl just being pissed at who's getting in then it does with not liking the criteria because active guys have been going in since the HoF started & I don't recall this same amount of backlash over guys like Misawa, Kawada, Great Muta, Liger, Hashimoto, Savage, Hogan, Flair, etc... who were all still competing regularly at the time they were inducted and got put in as soon as they were elligable for it.

I really loved the HHH mania match but I think I may literally be the only one that did.

Christopher Daniels has been elligable for years but no one's clamouring for him to go on the ballot. Samoa Joe had a hot streak of being one of the best wrestlers in the world for about 4-5 years, the rest of his career he did nothing of note before then and has been mediocure ever since. Austin Aries? No Way. Homicide? No Way. Mike Quackenbush? Maybe if Chikara somehow became a million $ company otherwise no way. I really can't think of who any viable indy guys would even be. If Danielson had never gone to WWE i'd still think he'd atleast have a shot based on just his indy work but that's it.

Context is important for things like this. Yeah he was the champ but all 3 runs were short & forgettable. For 2 of them he only got to defend it once and both times that was against Taguchi a mid lvl guy on the pecking order and his 3rd most recent reign he held the belt for all of a month and lost it in his first defense.

Did Meltzer say he was actually going to include him on the ballot or are you just guessing? A couple weeks ago he said on one of the radio shows that he was considering adding AJ Styles but that when he asked around, no one with a ballot said they'd actually vote for him so Meltzer figured why bother. I can't see the same not being true for Low Ki. Not really sure what the debate even would be for him. He's a great wrestler but not so great he could get in on work alone and that's all he really has going for him. He might do okay with reporters I suppose but I can't see historians or former wrestlers giving him much thought and for as talented as he is, he also has a rep of being really difficult to work with, an ego maniac, an asshole and a bit of a nut job among a lot of his peers.

Don't see much benefit to waiting myself. I see the HoF as a pretty black & white thing whear either you've done enough to be worthy of getting in or you haven't and once you have done enough it'll take an awful lot to render that irrelevant. Like I can't think of anyone who's been voted in who was still active, that I think deserved to be voted in (key point) but then fell off to such a degree whear I changed my opinion that drastically. Guys of course can add to their credentials later on, like Kensuke Sasaki who had the best run of his career post 2005 at which point he was allready 40 and had been in wrestling 19-20 years but that's diffrent then saying someone who's allready reached a high enough level shouldn't go in because they did so in less time. I'm kinda blanking on too many other current guys who aren't on the ballot allready who'll have a good shot when they become elligable. Orton, Mistico and then uhhhh......????

CM Punk will be elligable in 2 years (barely misses being qualified for next year by a couple months). What do people think his chances are? Unless his career just dramaticly falls off a cliff i'd think he has a great shot with maybe the only obsticle being the "I won't vote for an active wrestler" contingent working against him.