FLIK

No everyone here is face, the only traditional heels at the time was Bull's crew. Butch tough girls were always over huge for the female audiance as far as what they wanted out of their heros.

Well yeah but the point was that UFC ppvs are just as exspensive as WWE's & just as easy to steal but they still got great numbers.

That is one odd unexspected but awesome combination...

Bull, October 2012, hair grew back, weights been lost & she would like to say fuck all the haters

Hey now, can't forget about Vinnie Vegas, The Diamond Studd & Terra Ryzing

Point isn't so much about the fans that do come not liking Cena, it's about the ones that used to be fans being turned off of the product which thread?

Of course there's lots of other factors besides Cena being on top that have caused the decline, but hey there's lots of other reasons WCW didn't draw well with Sting on top too But yeah, it shouldn't be underestimated that over pushing Cena for so long is atleast one significant factor in turning off a portion of the fan base. Tanahashi has a bit of backlash as well, as does most any wrestler who stays on top for a while but Tanahashi's is more "we like this other wrestler more now & wanna pay to see him kick your ass & beat you for the belt" as opposed to Cena's "we're just plain fucking sick of seeing you, please get injured so we can have a break.....awww shit, you're injured and still all over the damn tv, click to another channel".

A lot to say about the voting this year but for now i'll just add that I don't think Tanahashi goes in next year either but i'm 100% confident he gets in within the next 5 or so. I'd like to hear what else you have to say about the voting. Dave and I discussed Tanahashi on the show tonight. I made the point that I really wish someone would lay out his case as even though I don't like him as a worker I sometimes think I am selling him short as a star. Re Tanahashi I'm not his biggest fan or anything so i'm not going to go into a super detailed case but in a nutshell he's a guy who checks all the boxes i'd think people would want out of a hall of famer. - There's a some who will disagree of course but he's considered a great worker by the majority of fans who've seen him. Meltzer's gone as far as to call him the best on the planet for whatever that's worth. - Unquestionably the biggest star & ace of NJPW for the past few years. - 6 time IWGP champ but more importantly was instrumental in re-establishing that the belt was actually something worth having after the title got tarnished by the shit booking of the early 2000's. G1 climax winner, finalist on a few other occasions, headlined multiple dome shows, and lots of other on paper & kayfaybe credentials for those who may value such things - Business has improved with him on top. To make a very simplified comparison to Cena, Cena's a guy who got handed the keys to the kingdom when the company wasn't at it's peak but was still fairly strong and while on top things have gone down with WWE getting lower ratings, ppv buys and attendance then they have in a long time. Tanahashi got handed the keys to the kingdom when not only were things not strong but the kingdom was crumbling to dust, like it wasn't that long ago when NJPW often wouldn't even sell out Kouraken Hall for many of the shows they ran thear. Now, while things still aren't at peak lvl, they've improved greatly for NJPW, they're drawing more fans, sell out or come close to selling out most of their big shows, have more fan intrest & positive buzz and all around are moving up instead of down and Tanahashi on top is a big part of it.

Funny irony on Sting, for all the talk that he wasn't a big draw with the fans, he would be the #1 guy voted in if the HoF was decided via fan voting as he routinely wins the Observer site polls Meltzer likes to do on "which among these names is most deserving to be in"

Still no cause of death for Brad Armstrong?

Yup, that's always seemed to be hardcore lucha fandom in a nutshell. In all my years following things I still have no clue who if anyone is considered a consensus pick for best wrestler(s) or best matches. Depending on who you ask you always seem to get varying answers. I always like to go back to the old Smarks Choice greatest ever poll as an example whear MS1 ended up being fairly highly ranked but was a guy i'd never once even heard of at the time despite having been in the hardcore fan community several years by that point. Very diffrent then say Japanese or US wrestling whear even if you're not a fan, if you've followed things online for any decent length of time you'll atleast have cursory knowledge of who most would pick as obvious choices for any particular company or era.

A lot to say about the voting this year but for now i'll just add that I don't think Tanahashi goes in next year either but i'm 100% confident he gets in within the next 5 or so.

I'm going to go ahead and flat out say 0% chance for Lesnar ever getting in unless he does a lot more in wrestling. He has his supporters but no way do I buy him getting the 60% or more needed to get in.

- (JGP FINAL) Manami Toyota vs Yumiko Hotta Toyota rushes Hotta at the bell, going completely wild and being maybe more agressive then i've ever seen her before. She tosses her over the guard rail and hits a giant dive off the top into the crowd. Hotta eventually gets up and is super pissed and the fights on. Somewhear in all of this Hotta starts bleeding from above the eye but it's not enough to stop her and she takes over on Toyota. Long long controll segment w Hotta slowly wearing her down little by little to the point whear when Toyota finally does change the momentum she can't make that much of an energetic come back. Instead Toyota just starts grabbing holds of her own to wear Hotta down. In the end I thought it made for a cool moment as they both really put over the fatigue factor real well I thought. The final stretch really did seem like a battle of attrition with both having to dig down deep to put the other away and it's Toyota who gets the win after out smarting Hotta and rolling her up. Really good match, best of the show.

- (JGP R1) Manami Toyota vs Akira Hokuto Toyota starts out fast attacking at the bell but Hokuto quickly shuts that down with a stiff ass clothesline to the jaw. Then spends the next few mins stretching Toyota on the mat. Should mention that at this point it becomes really noticable how much the crowd is split as all the dudes in the audiance boo the heck out of Hokuto which causes the shrieking school girls to rise up in support of her making for an awesome atmosphere. Toyota makes her comeback and they trade dives on the outside. Hokuto lands badly on hers, whacking her leg against the guard rail and cutting a gash in her shin when she comes down. Hokuto's in near tears from the pain but wants to continue anyways but the ref has none of it and calls for the bell as the parade of shit finishes continues. Was turning into a damn good match before things got derailed thear.

My old review - (3WA Tag Titles - 2 out of 3 Falls) Akira Hokuto & Suzuka Minami © vs Yumiko Hotta & Mitsuko Nishiwaki 60's Soldiers EXPLODE - Marine Wolves vs Fire Jets. 1st Fall is pretty good, they don't go all out but real solid work. Fire Jets mostly dominate to disapointment of the shrieking school girls in attendance who're all about them some Marine Wolf love. Minami & Nishiwaki have an awesome exchange near the end that sees Nish come out on top w a backdrop suplex to pick up win #1. Quick 2nd fall going only 4-5 mins. Starts w Hotta playing a game of kickball using Ms Minami as the ball but when she tags out to Nish Suzuka's able to make a come back. Hokuto comes in and cleans house and the Wolves go on a long stretch of offense throwing bombs against both girls until they finally put Hotta away to even things up. Fire Jets whine the entire break to the ref that it was only a 2. 3rd fall is more back & forth then the other 2 with Hokuto & Nishiwaki being the standouts this time. It comes down to them for the final stretch and it's a huge joy to watch. Really Nishiwaki period was the best of the 4 tonight, loved her in this match. She sadly losed though when Hokuto counters her powerbomb attempt into a cradle. Real good match. Dunno why, maybe just wasn't in the mood for a spazzy spot fest having watched this after like 6 & 1/2 hours sleep but I really dug the pacing of the match too. They weren't going at a snails pace or anything, just not so super fast that it made it hard for some stuff to register or remember or whatever. Fire Jets again prove to not be gracious winers post match and beg for a re-match after.

Heh, I always have to wonder, what kids are ppl hanging around to come up with this talking point? I'm not usually around children that often but I don't know any 12 yr olds that look or act like AJ does.

Accidently hit Hogan?

I've only seen highlights of this but I thought it looked fun from the little I got to see. The June match is indeed awesome.

Worth noting this is a NJPW show that just happened to have some interpromotional matches on it not a true co-promoted event like the April Dome Show.

Not really, the entire thing basically consisted of Alundra & who ever they wanted to program her against. Bull & Luna were the only other ones they really focused on, then later Bertha Faye. They'd use a few other random girls like Lei Lani Kai & Heidi Lei Morgan but that was mostly just so Blaze would have an opponent that night on the house show tour.

He still books it. There's tons of local wrestling but APW's pretty much the only one Meltzer pays any attention to at all & will rarely attend so he knows him from thear.

Yeah, he was still good up until the late 90's atleast. He did a random tour for Battlarts in 98 and had a fun match vs Hisakatsu Oya