Coffey

NXT Takeover Brooklyn is tonight on the Network. Looks like it's only a 2-hour show. Thought this should have it's own thread. Anyway, the card: NXT Title: Finn Bàlor© Vs. Kevin Owens (Ladder Match) NXT Women's Title: Sasha Banks© Vs. Bayley Samoa Joe Vs. Baron Corbin NXT Tag Titles: Blake/Murphy (w/ Alexa Bliss)© Vs. Vaudevillains Jushin "Thunder" Liger Vs. Tyler Breeze Apollo Crews (Uhaa Nation) NXT in-ring debut Sold out Barclay's center ("more than 13,000 fans"), so crowd should be hot. Although I'm sure they don't have as many seats up for NXT as they do for Summerslam. Not sure how that all works.

I would rather Lana return to Rusev with Rusev turning babyface than Rusev just staying heel. Babyface Rusev would give him opportunities for new opponents, like Harper, which is something I really want to see. Although I readily admit that Lana is an awful babyface.

EDIT : I'll make a new thread, that's probably better.

Four hour PPV and they can't fit the tag titles on the show, really?

Also if the top dog with the top prize is on one show, the second show looks inferior by comparison from the jump. WWE could just make Smackdown important again & that could help things, honestly. Right now, it's less important than even WCW Thunder ever was. Actually, that's sort of where we're at. Nitro was 3-hours and Thunder was 2-hours but didn't matter. Right now, RAW is 3-hours and Smackdown is 2-hours but doesn't matter. A brand split wouldn't help if no one still cared about Smackdown, ya know? WWE gotta make it important so people care what happens on it. Seeing as they can't even seemingly do that on RAW most weeks, seems like an uphill struggle.

I mean, they could. They could also do nothing. I still don't know why they put Harper back with Bray, honestly.

Which is probably what WWE wants anyway. I've seen what I interpreted as "hints" in how Ambrose would be ranting, verbally, and Reigns would cut him off & say things like "what he meant to say was..." and then Ambrose look at him squirrely. We'll see on Sunday.

"Utter hatred" is way too strong but I do have a pet peeve: I dislike when all tag team matches are worked with the same formulaic "face in peril" style. Some of the best tag matches I've ever seen have been worked that way but I like to see different stories play out in the ring too, ya know? Even in throwaway 5-8 minute tag matches, WWE tries to do this. To this day. It's crazy.

It would only work if they went all the way with it. I remember when there were Smackdown PPVs and RAW PPVs so the "draft" when it happened was actually entertaining. Like it was a genuine mark-out moment when Cena came to RAW for me. I kind of liked that. But when we just started having champions on both shows & B-PPVs featuring people from both shows & there being too many belts...it was just too much. Problem is, WWE gets way too scared way too quickly. One week of bad ratings and we'd have McMahons/Cena/Taker/etc. showing up to "help the numbers" or whatever. Which would defeat the purpose.

I'm overly excited for this Pay-Per-View & I have no idea why. I feel like I'm just setting myself up for a fall at this point. I don't really care about Brock/'Taker as a match, I'm more concerned about 'Taker going over to set-up a rubber match at 'Mania which is the complete opposite of what I want. I also think it would be hilarious if after all the U.S. Title Open Challenge stuff, John Cena just won the world title again anyway. WWE has been hyping & acting like this is such a huge PPV deal & I'm not entirely sure why. The fourth hour is really going to make this show drag I feel. I do think that Dean Ambrose will turn heel on Roman and join the Wyatt Family. Right now, I'd like to see Lesnar as the champion in a Bret Hart role where he'll give title shots to anyone as a "fighting champion" so he could help establish guys like Rusev or Cesaro, instead of it just being The Undertaker, John Cena or Triple H all the time. I thought they were going to use him to do that with Roman. I don't feel like Seth Rollins has gotten over the hurdle & parity booking has really hurt guys like Wyatt, Owens, Ambrose & Ryback. So I guess I'm more interested in the booking than the matches.

I don't think Big Cass is ready at all, or will be anytime soon, but I like Enzo. At least as a mouthpiece. I get a Jimmy Hart vibe from him. As long as he switched up his shtick so he didn't just become Road Dogg, with the repeatable catchphrase, I think he has potential. I think the Big Cass/Enzo tag team is a dead end though. For both.

I missed the John Cena/Seth Rollins stuff. Now I'm reading people saying that Cena verbally eviscerated Seth on the microphone. What did he say?

Counterpoint: Magic zombie. I feel like WWE can't have it both ways, ya know? Either you have Magic Undead Zombies that can shoot lightning on your show or you have former UFC World Champion/NCAA Champion legit athletes competing. It's hard to do both as the former just looks corny & makes the latter look less credible by comparison. At least during this feud, despite the lights going out & him showing up, 'Taker is just kicking Brock in the balls & hitting his moves. He's not making it rain or lightning strike to catch Brock caskets on fire or something like that. The big pull apart brawl was really good. The close tonight just felt lackluster. That's the wacky world of WWE though. They have always sort of had an identity crisis, trying to hit every corner & be a bigger circus act instead of picking a more streamlined direction & just focusing on that. Hearing Michael Cole call a John Cena/Kevin Owens match a "match of the year contender" is still weird to me in WWE. Now would be a great time for another topic/tangent about how winners/losers of matches should matter, there should be consequences & "I just want to entertain the crowd" should never be heard on a pro-wrestling show.

It honestly wouldn't make sense for The Undertaker to win. Brock is the first guy booked to have credibility outside of John Cena in years. He has legit credentials & accolades. What would giving The Undertaker a win here do? Keep Brock strong so you can sell him in the main event of the huge Wrestlemania - whatever it may be. I don't think anyone is clamoring for a 'Taker win & a 'Mania "rubber" match. That would be a terrible decision. Texas or not. If 'Taker just gets his win back, him losing the Streak in the first place was pointless. I just feel like it would erase a lot of what WWE has done over the last almost two years. It's WWE though, so you just never know.

OK, off-topic rant a lil bit to start. Here is where my biggest disparity with several of the other regulars on this website I think differs: I have watched pro-wrestling since 1987-1988. I started with WWF due to getting drawn in as a child with Hulk Hogan. I watched the Mega Powers explode & became a big fan of the Ultimate Warrior. I was a typical kid. I ate the babyface shit up & loved the larger-than-life colorful heroes. When I hit my teens, Hulk Hogan went to WCW & became a bad guy. He was the rebellious heel & was with the "cool" nWo. I, as a teenager, cheered the bad guys. Then I got into ECW, because pro-wrestling had blown up. I had watched wrestling my whole life but now that it was super popular, even in high school among non-fans, I wanted to see the "underground" stuff (lol), so that I had more information than the people that just watched RAW or Nitro. ECW PPV was available on Time Warner Cable in Indiana starting with ECW Guilty as Charged 1999. I missed that one due to not having the money to order it, however I saved & bought the next one. Then I didn't miss a PPV of theirs (or an episode of ECW on TNN) until they closed. During the time in-between Guilty as Charged & Living Dangerously, I started reading up about ECW. I had just gotten internet at my home at the end of 1998. I even (shamefully) had a subscription to Wrestling Digest magazine... One of the first things I remember reading online about pro-wrestling were people crapping on Kevin Nash (whom I liked) for "using backstage politics to end the Streak." I had no idea what they were talking about...a whole new can of worms was opened. As I read more and more about wrestling, I became more interested in the backstage stories than I did the on-air product. I would read rumors, I would read message forums. I would read "dirtsheets." I read Dave Meltzer or, at the time, Scott Keith (which was where I first saw people rating wrestlers/matches). I was on several wrestling message forums. Starting with WrestlingGames.com (due to WCW/NWO Revenge on Nintendo 64). Then I ended up at quite a few others, including TheSmartMarks and DVDVR. I got in contact with Goodhelmet, had some VHS compilation tapes made & got into Puroresu. Later some DVDs. I learned about Misawa, Kawada, Kabashi, etc. I got into Ring of Honor, after ECW died, and I watched Samoa Joe, Daniel Bryan, etc. Now I watch Indies and try to catch some other odds & ends stuff. All my heroes growing up, Hulk Hogan, Ultimate Warrior, etc. I found out were pieces of shit. I read how they weren't good workers way before finding out about their out-of-character lives. Without those guys, I never even become a fan. I can't get into most Lucha (I like Lucha Underground but have been told that's not "real lucha"). I don't watch wrestling from England or other non-Japanese areas. I've pretty much only seen WWF, WCW, ECW, ROH & the "holy trinity" Puroresu stuff, along with some modern NJPW & ROH from about 2004-onward. Throw in (very little) territory stuff & things from YouTube over the years & that's the entirety of my pro-wrestling timeline. I'm not even sure how many wrestlers I can name, period. Like, off the top of my head, just listing any non-jobber that comes to mind. Could I even get to 200? 300? So when people say things like "no way this guy makes my list! I can think of a couple hundred better!" I'm just dazzled by the sheer amount of wrestling that other people had to have not only seen but can remember. I can't remember the card from the PPV I just watched a couple weeks ago. I have literally watched wrestling my entirely life. I'm in my early-thirties. I have over twenty-five years of watching now & these forums make me feel like I have the least knowledge of anyone else here. It's crazy. I would rather watch new wrestling for the first time than wrestling I've seen before for a second time. I'm also not going to go out of my way to watch stuff that I don't like. In example, Lucha or black & white old wrestling. I don't enjoy them. Not my cup of tea. I've tried. I just feel like I'm wasting hours of my life if I continue to keep pursuing either. I can watch good matches & see it's a good match. I can watch bad matches & see it's a bad match. It's harder for me to watch stuff in a vacuum & try to put myself into the match as just an athletic competition. Especially with U.S. wrestling. It's easier with Japanese wrestling as they seem to do most of their story-telling in-ring anyway. The outside the ring story matters too much in America. The characters matter too much. Just watching a compilation tape of Steve Austin wouldn't let someone know how impactful he was on the shows. It was the emotional connection to the characters, being drawn into the story and then caring about the outcomes of matches because of those. I wanted to watch week-to-week & see the payoffs on the PPVs. I don't want pro-wrestling to become a bunch of Chris Benoit like characters that just put on good matches. I want more Hulk Hogans that draw people in & make them care. I just think I have a very different mentality than a lot of others not only as it pertains to pro-wrestling as a whole but in regards to this list, too. When I read Haku/Meng in the thread title, I was curious to see a case made for him. Instead it's people struggling to make a case for him being in top 100. Which is fine, I'm not sure he should be there either but if that's the case, why was he nominated at all? However, the point of different wrestlers having different roles in the company is certainly a good one and one worth thinking about. You need the guys like Tito Santana and Greg Valentine. You need the Bret Harts and Shawn Michaels. I think you also need the guys like Santino and Warlord and Earthquake. I agree with this. I like Haku/Meng. He's always been one of my favorite guys to watch. He just had an aura about him. Like Mark Henry had that same aura for awhile during his Hall of Pain days. His theme would hit and you would think "oh shit..." like someone was about to get messed up. Brock has that now. Meng was a midcard dude but he was booked hella strong to always look like a beast, so you never really counted him out of anything. I was younger & more naive watching him in WCW, so I thought he had a shot at beating Goldberg, or The Giant posted in the video in this thread for example. I just think he played his role really well. I would rather watch Meng be entertaining than quite a few other people going on my list work great matches because sometimes you're just in the mood for wrestling that isn't just a 20-minute "epic." Ya know? I don't feel like this GWE list has a place to acknowledge those kind of guys. I love The Nasty Boys, in example. Those two entertain the fuck out of me. I never, ever skip one of their matches when watching something on WWE Network because I know, somewhere, I'm going to see something in that match that catches my eye. A stiff punch or whatever. Those guys are great. I remember reading that for a long time, The Brooklyn Brawler was the "gatekeeper" for WWF. If you got a try-out match, you worked Brawler & then when the match was over, people would ask Brawler if you were any good. If he said no, you weren't getting hired. That's a pretty influential role for a guy that a lot of people look at as a career jobber. He's still with the company, I believe, started in 1983. No one is going to put him on their list. He was never asked to be the guy that put on 4-star matches. I think there's a difference between being a great in-ring worker and a great pro-wrestler as a whole. There's more to it than just the bell-to-bell part. This list isn't about the 100 greatest pro-wrestlers ever, it's about the 100 greatest in-ring workers ever & there's a big difference. Ric Flair is great not just because of his in-ring but because of his promo and his character. He was memorable. Japanese wrestlers when viewed by an American audience though, it never crosses their mind about them being a good promo. It just doesn't matter. So how can we compare the two equally or objectively? I have a seen a helluva lot more Ric Flair stuff than older guys where there's less footage. That's not really fair to those older guys. It's hard to compare someone's entire career to someone that only has like 20-25 matches total on tape.

Tomorrow, your recurring nightmare continues, with Superfly chucking you off a balcony for making him bleed, brudda.

I remember it. THE KING OF ROCK WHO THE KING OF ROCK WHAT It was bad. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t4383N9YRs

One of the "highlights" of the show was when the non-working audio did manage to pick up his audibly frustrated loud sigh into the mic.

My favorite part was Hugo calling it the "six nineteen!"

What happened? During his ring entrance, Mystizezzz came down from the rafters via a cord. Nothing went wrong.

Due to all the audio issues, apparently Matt Striker was checking his Twitter feed during the show, getting updates that way. So I was trying to tweet him to get him to name-drop The Missing Link or Dark Journey on-air, but he no sold me. I had to find a way to entertain myself...lol

Sorry Ha! It's OK, man. I had planned to watch it a couple weeks back anyway, just didn't remember tonight was the night that it aired. Hindsight 20/20 and all that. At least I'll know what people are talking about when they insult it all week long.

I'm now watching on mute & just going to listen to some music while watching. Show is half over & they've not fixed it yet, so...whatever. PPV has fallen apart. Not just the audio issues but the last two matches were dreadful too.

I'm hoping they fix these issues, or I'm gonna have to give up. I can't watch it like this, it's giving me a headache.

Props to Grimmas for reminding me of this show earlier today. I liked the intro (visually, as audio was messed up). First match was fun. Kong was cracking me up. I was having Akeem flashbacks with how slow she was running. That Drago entrance entire was SICK! Gonna have fun with this.