puropotsy

Superstar Sleeze and Pantherwagner just went head-to-head for my favorite posts ever, anywhere.

I did consider Buddy Rogers, but Pat O'Connor's performance and ability resonated more with me from a worker perspective. But I did love Buddy in that match as well, especially his post-match promo and I always likened Brock Lesnar in UFC to that moment of Rogers or to Superstar Graham as champion. But ya, O'Connor just came off as one of the best babyface workers of all time where as Rogers comes off more as the combination of good worker and awesome over-all performer. Could easily have went with him though and perhaps if there was more footage to review or if I thought about it longer I would.

NWA World Champion Pat O'Connor vs Jack Wilson Chicago circa 1960 This is the only title defense by O'Connor online that I know of. Great time capsule moment as an example of prime O'Connor

Pat O'Connor vs Lorenzo Parente from St. Louis 1962 Part 1: Part 2: This is some great technical wrestling. After the match O'Connor does a demonstration of holds with Joe Garagiola that is hilarious.

One of my favorite matches of all-time. A tremendous babyface against an awesome heel. I really wish there was more footage of O'Connor as NWA Champion but this showcases him as one of the better babyfaces and workers I have seen. Buddy Rogers vs Pat O'Connor

I am too. I think Tenryu's surliness and his emotionless face hurt him when he's meant to be the plucky young protege. He's not very sympathetic or likable. However, those same qualities make him awesome in 88-89. I've still not got up to the late 80's in my All Japan viewing so my attitude towards Tenryu might change. (For what it's worth I've seen zero New Japan outside of the current stuff) The 80's set looks like a good place for me to start with Lucha. But even with my silly little list names keep on popping up in my head that I'd forgotten and somehow wish I could squeeze in (Dibiase, Bockwinkel, Carlos Colon, Azumi Hyuga, and, yes, Shawn Michaels). Hard work. Most importantly, I first read your name as Battlekitten

I would love to do a compiled list with everyone. Set a six-month window, people can try to cover some blind spots if they feel the need but what is cool is for people's blind spots to balance each other out. I didn't go into our list show having examined yuki ishikawa and ruling him out, I just hadn't thought of him and now want to examine him. It's about exploring stuff, and again it's not curing cancer.

Trust me, I was actually nervous about forming the list and putting the opinions out there. I considered Dibiase, he just wasn't my choice to put on. Noone who is deep enough into wrestling to be on a board like this should be nervous about putting together a list as everyone is quite knowledgeable. I also need to say that it is so great that people are positive about the show, fifty episodes ago I was timid about starting to put myself out there and every bit of support is appreciated.

He made the Canadian version

Yup, that's right. Personally urgent situation on my end and we stopped and re-started later. I think this might be my favorite episode.

In honor of the fiftieth episode of The Wrestling Culture podcast, Dylan and I run down our Top Fifty list of the best in-ring wrestlers of all time. We ended up recording it in two parts and had a great time with the conversation. Thanks to everyone who has listened to any or all of our first fifty episodes and here's to another fifty. Wrestling Culture Episode 50

The crowd in the theatre was so hot for that Rhodes-Shield match.

I think I'll just leave it alone here. It's not your opinions on the matter that are an issue to me as I think there are much better reasons in this world to develop ulcers than HOF discussion, it is that it can be presented more respectfully.

Thanks for taking the time to read it John. I do get the feedback about not suggesting the Choshu retirement for the 1998 Tokyo Dome. I did read through the results of every Dome show that he is listed as main eventing and did see Choshu's series on that card. Is the consensus and your opinion that it was only Choshu's retirement that drew or would Sasaki vs Muto be seen as part of it as well? I do agree that there was not the degree of analysis to the point of going through every card within the write-up and explaining why or why not it might be Sasaki that drew. But I did consider that and do think that to say there was not "any" analysis would be unfair or to say that I "just" said that there were five dome shows. I can see suggesting that more analysis would have been helpful but don't think the statements have to be to that exteme. For any who would like that additional information to determine whether they think Sasaki was a draw on these shows I have listed the results of the six dome shows (including the IWGP tournament) below. From www.wrestlingdata.com 1/4/1995 62,500 1) UWA World Welterweight Title Match Shinjiro Otani © defeated El Samurai 2) IWGP Junior Heavyweight Title Match Norio Honaga © defeated The Great Sasuke 3) Heisei Ishingun (The Great Kabuki, Kuniaki Kobayashi and Akitoshi Saito) defeated Osamu Kido, Takayuki Iizuka and Akira Nogami 4) Koji Kanemoto defeated Yuji Nagata 5) Hiroyoshi Yamamoto Return Match Hiroyoshi Tenzan defeated Manabu Nakanishi 6) Tiger Jeet Singh and Tiger Jeet Singh Jr. defeated Heisei Ishingun (Shiro Koshinaka and Michiyoshi Ohara) 7) Final Countdown BVD Tournament, Semi Final Sting defeated Tony Palmore 8) Final Countdown BVD Tournament, Semi Final Antonio Inoki defeated Gerard Gordeau 9) Riki Choshu and Yoshiaki Yatsu defeated Heisei Ishingun (Kengo Kimura and Tatsutoshi Goto) 10) Masahiro Chono and Sabu defeated Tatsumi Fujinami and Junji Hirata 11) Hawk Warrior defeated Scott Norton 12) Final Countdown BVD Tournament, Final Antonio Inoki defeated Sting IWGP Tag Team Titles Match 13) Keiji Muto and Hiroshi Hase © defeated Steiner Brothers (Rick Steiner and Scott Steiner) IWGP Heavyweight Title Match 14) Shinya Hashimoto © defeated Kensuke Sasaki 1/4/1998 65,000 1) Kendo KaShin defeated Koji Kanemoto 2) IWGP Junior Heavyweight Title Match Shinjiro Otani © defeated Último Dragón 3) Yuji Nagata defeated Hiroyoshi Tenzan 4) Osamu Nishimura Return Match Tatsumi Fujinami and Osamu Nishimura defeated Manabu Nakanishi and Satoshi Kojima 5) Riki Road Final Message 5 - Match 1 Riki Choshu defeated Kazuyuki Fujita 6) Riki Road Final Message 5 - Match 2 Riki Choshu defeated Yutaka Yoshie 7) Riki Road Final Message 5 - Match 3 Riki Choshu defeated Tatsuhito Takaiwa 8) Riki Road Final Message 5 - Match 4 Takashi Iizuka defeated Riki Choshu 9) Riki Road Final Message 5 - Match 5 Riki Choshu defeated Jushin Thunder Liger 10) Don Frye defeated Naoya Ogawa by referee stoppage 11) Shinya Hashimoto defeated Dennis Lane by referee stoppage 12) Masahiro Chono defeated Shiro Koshinaka 13) IWGP Heavyweight Title Match Kensuke Sasaki © defeated Keiji Muto 1/4/2000 63,500 1) IWGP Junior Heavyweight Tag Team Titles Match Shinjiro Otani and Tatsuhito Takaiwa © defeated Kendo KaShin and Minoru Tanaka 2) Shiro Koshinaka defeated Satoshi Kojima 3) Hiroyoshi Tenzan defeated Wild Pegasus 4) IWGP Junior Heavyweight Title Match Jushin Thunder Liger © defeated Koji Kanemoto 5) Manabu Nakanishi defeated Kenzo Suzuki 6) Kazuo Yamazaki Retirement Match Yuji Nagata defeated Kazuo Yamazaki 7) Kimo defeated Kazuyuki Fujita by disqualification 8) Scott Norton defeated Don Frye 9) Rick Steiner defeated Randy Savage 10) Shinya Hashimoto and Takashi Iizuka defeated Naoya Ogawa and Kazunari Murakami 11) Masahiro Chono defeated Keiji Muto 12) IWGP Heavyweight Title Match Kensuke Sasaki defeated Gen'ichiro Tenryu 10/9/2000 65,000 1) Shinya Hashimoto defeated Tatsumi Fujinami 2) Jushin Thunder Liger defeated Super Delfin 3) Don Frye defeated Takashi Iizuka 4) IWGP Junior Heavyweight Title Match Tatsuhito Takaiwa © defeated Koji Kanemoto 5) IWGP Tag Team Titles Match Hiroyoshi Tenzan and Satoshi Kojima © defeated Manabu Nakanishi and Yuji Nagata 6) New Japan vs. All Japan Steve Williams defeated Scott Norton 7) New Japan vs. All Japan Masahiro Chono and Mr. T defeated Shiro Koshinaka and Masanobu Fuchi 8) New Japan vs. All Japan Toshiaki Kawada defeated Kensuke Sasaki 1/4/2001 62,000 1) IWGP Heavyweight Title Tournament Kensuke Sasaki defeated Satoshi Kojima 2) IWGP Heavyweight Title Tournament Hiroyoshi Tenzan defeated Yuji Nagata 3) Koji Kanemoto and Minoru Tanaka defeated Shinya Makabe and Tatsuhito Takaiwa 4) Takashi Iizuka defeated Kendo KaShin 5) IWGP Heavyweight Title Tournament, Semi Final Kensuke Sasaki defeated Masahiro Chono 6) IWGP Heavyweight Title Tournament, Semi Final Toshiaki Kawada defeated Hiroyoshi Tenzan 7) Shinjiro Otani and Keiji Muto defeated Jushin Thunder Liger and Manabu Nakanishi (5:44 minutes) 8) Riki Choshu vs. Shinya Hashimoto ended without a winner as a no contest 9) IWGP Heavyweight Title Tournament, Final - IWGP Heavyweight Title Match Kensuke Sasaki defeated Toshiaki Kawada 7/18/2005 62,000 1) Takashi Sugiura, SUWA and Masashi Aoyagi defeated Tsuyoshi Kikuchi, Mitsuo Momota and Katsuhiko Nakajima 2) Mohammed Yone and Takeshi Morishima defeated Tamon Honda and Go Shiozaki 3) Akitoshi Saito, Shiro Koshinaka, Masao Inoue and Kishin Kawabata defeated Akira Taue, Takuma Sano, Junji Izumida and Haruka Eigen 4) Mushiking Terry Debut Match Mushiking Terry defeated Black Mask 5) Global Honored Crown Junior Heavyweight Title Match KENTA defeated Yoshinobu Kanemaru © 6) Global Honored Crown Heavyweight Tag Team Titles Match Minoru Suzuki and Naomichi Marufuji © defeated Jun Akiyama and Makoto Hashi 7) Global Honored Crown Heavyweight Title Match Takeshi Rikio © defeated Hiroshi Tanahashi 8) Gen'ichiro Tenryu defeated Yoshinari Ogawa 9) Kenta Kobashi defeated Kensuke Sasaki 10) Mitsuharu Misawa defeated Toshiaki Kawada

On Episode 49 of The Wrestling Culture podcast, Dylan and I are joined by David Bixenspan to discuss the 2013 Wrestling Observer Hall of Fame Ballot, especially the North American candidates. We speak at length about Mark Lewin, Brock Lesnar, and Mr. Wrestling II and of course since Dylan and I are on the line we talk about Ken Patera and debate about Edge. Please give it a listen. Wrestling Culture Episode 49

Awesome!! Please let us know what you think

I'm all for definitions and nominations as well. I can think of three categories: The "Character Actor" Journeyman- The guy who blends into every promotion and who is seen but not noticed. You always think you've seen him somewhere before but aren't sure where. An example is Chick Donovan. The "Patient Zero" Journeyman- The type of guy who went so many places that if he had a communicable disease it would have wiped out the business. An example is Roger Kirby. The "What's Love Got To Do With It"- The type of guy who was just great at everything he did and even if he didn't end up being the guy in the business is still an example of everything that is great about wrestling. A major example is of course Rip Rogers. Obviously, these categories are not mutually exclusive and other suggestions are welcome.

I would imagine we will try to hit that on the second episode but we were going long last night.

There is some footage of him from Montreal, I know at least Verne Siebert has footage of a match against The Jackel.

According to wrestlingdata.com Kawada wrestled in Stampede as Black Mephisto in 1986. I just checked a list of my Stampede stuff and it looks like I have three matches of his, against Chris Benoit, and two against Robbie Stewart. Here is a list of matches from Stampede: Black Mephisto in Stampded Here is a list of matches of "Toshiaki" from International Wrestling in Montreal Toshiaki in Montreal

That is an awesome write-up from Yohe on Pedro. I should definitely re-visit some Carlos Colon matches, Dylan has watched a ton of PR lately and I will take his word on Colon as a worker as it is much more likely that I would like someone that Dylan doesn't than it is that he would like someone that I don't. For me, the argument on Tanahashi right now comes down to whether you think he is a good worker, which I do. He is polarizing in that regards but I honestly do think he has more supporters than detractors regarding his work. I think his success and influence are both substantial. And regarding whether it is too early, it is really a comparison with Cena, who has been on top since 2005 while Tanahashi has been on top since 2006. Cena started being taken more seriously around 2006 when he was working with Edge and Tanahashi started being taken more seriously in 2007 when he started working with Nagata.

I want to say that I didn't check out this thread until tonight (at Dylan's urging) and am really impressed with how great the conversation is while still being respectful. I put in my ballot fairly quickly and picked the following in the Wrestler categories: 1) Enrique Torres- A great example of what a fresh look at someone's career can do. Many, including me, knew next to nothing about the man at one point. I have seen such strong cases made for him, especially the write-up done by Steve Yohe, that it is hard not to vote for him. 2) Ivan Koloff- Actually my top pick. I read his book recently and was quite impressed with his perspectives on the business. The man was a success everywhere. He might not be in without the title win over Bruno, but honestly the credibility from that added to his success. He has longevity and success and from everything I've seen he had the ability. He had big runs everywhere, especially WWWF, the Carolinas and Montreal. I would ask people here: Is he at or near the top of Bruno's biggest opponents? 3) Pedro Morales: The knock is always that "he was only a draw in MSG", which I think needs to be reframed as "he was a draw in MSG". He may not compare to Bruno, but really who does? 4) Rock N Roll Express: Great draws, great influence and all-time great ability to do tag team formula like almost no one else. You could argue them over the Midnight Express in terms of it always being Ricky and Robert and their having success in SMW through the 90's and then as nostalgia draws in this century. I definitely favor the idea of them in as a team rather than Morton in on his own as I've seen suggested before. Although Gibson was not the stronger of the two, I don't the team would be the same with Bugsy McGraw in his spot. 5) Dick Murdoch- There were a couple of people (Edge and Sting) I took off my ballot this year. Murdoch might have been one of them but I had the opportunity to read the obit that was posted at f4w and he is such a strong case I couldn't vote for him. He strikes high in longevity, success, ability and influence. While not the top guy in each of those categories he has jus enough of each to be a strong candidate. 6) Ken Patera- I would vote for him on my own AND with all the convincing Dylan has done. He has runs in WWWF, St. Louis and AWA that all stand on their own as HOF credentials. A great worker who is one of the most underrated heels there has been in my mind. The only thing that could make him stronger for me is if he had more success in Japan, but everything else is so solid. 7) Kensuke Sasaki- He is probably compared too much to contemporaries like Misawa, Kobashi and Kawada who are all-time greats. Sasaki was somewhat of a late bloomer but did end up being great in my mind and also had success on Tokyo Dome shows. He was also really solid as an undercard guy in NJPW, especially in tag work. The incident with the student death is a blemish on him as a person but take a look around. His success in 2004-2008 has to be considered as well, especially how great he was in 2005. And he is now contributing as a trainer. 8) Hiroshi Tanahashi- He is not as strong a candidate as Cena was last year but may be the next strongest out of modern wrestlers. He has been successful and in my mind is quite good. And although some might not agree with that, there are obviously quite a few who do, including Japanese fans. I think it is safe to say that other than Kobashi he is the biggest star in Japan since 2000 and that is a long period of time for which to have that status. I didn't vote for him last year but it was close and this year put him over for me. NJPW was so beyond death when he was put on top and he built it up to one of the two most successful wrestling companies in the world, which is almost more impressive than starting from scratch as they overcame the Inoki baggage. 9) Mike and Ben Sharpe- These guys were a big part of establishing puroresu and were the protoytpes for monster gaijin. They had huge success in Japan and in his Torres bio Yohe said that the Sharpes are considered the top team of the 50s which is pretty high praise. They were big successes in a number of territories. Here is a link to the write-up I did on them last year: Ben and MIke Sharpe 10) Carlos Colon- Huge draw who basically carved a territory out of nothing and it is one that lasts to this day. No, it is not a big country like Mexico or Japan, but it certainly has its own identity and is more than just a wrestling city. His longevity is good and although he wasn't at the top of my ballot I do think he belongs in. Not a great worker but his success and influence overpower that for me. My non-wrestler picks were: Jim Crockett Jr. Jimmy Hart Jerry Jarrett Takashi Matsunaga Don Owen I will write more about them later but man is it late here. 5)

Wrestler of the Year 1) Daniel Bryan 2) Kazuchika Okada 3) Hiroshi Tanahashi I think the top three will be comprised of these guys, the ordering is hard to pick. I do think Tanahashi and Okada may split the NJPW votes leaving Bryan with a strong lead. This is much like supposedly happened in PWI in 1987 when Hogan and Savage split the Most Popular votes leaving Dusty to win it with only a small payment to PWI> Tag Team of the Year: 1) Alex Kozlov and Rocky Romero 2) Roman Reigns and Seth Rollins. I go with Kozlov and Romero based on success in three promotions and just being awesome. The Shield is great as well of course and the two teams could easily be interchanged. Other picks would be Lance Archer and Davey Boy Smith Jr and The Young Bucks. I have a number of matches of Shane Haste and Mikey Nicholls that I am set to watch and they could be sleeper picks to place high. Match Of The Year: 1) Tomohiro Ishii vs. Katsuyori Shibata 8/4 2) Dr Wagner Jr vs. La Par-k TXT 5/11 3) Daniel Bryan vs John Cena WWE 8/18 This year has had tons of good matches but these are the ones that are at the head of the pack for me. Most Outstanding Wrestler: 1) Daniel Bryan 2) Antonio Cesaro 3) Negro Casas Best Box Office Draw: I'm not sure but would think Lesnar, Cena, The Rock or Tanahashi. Feud of the Year: 1) Negro Casas vs Rush 2) Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kazuchika Okada. 3) Sami Callihan vs Drake Younger Daniel Bryan vs the corporate structure of WWE is kind of hard to define right now but if the Orton feud plays out well it could top the list, although Casas vs Rush is hard to beat. Averno vs Blue Panther is also playing out well. Most Improved: 1) Roman Reigns 2) Silas Young 3) Drake Younger Reigns went from dead weight in NXT to an integral part of an awesome act. Young went from an ok indy guy to someone I think is about to break out. And Younger has learned to captivate the PWG crowd and he was not exactly the prototype for that crowd. Best on Interviews: 1) Daniel Bryan 2) Bray Wyatt 3) Dean Ambrose I enjoy Bray Wyatt's stuff but have not seen it go beyond gimmick/character work into something that would draw as of yet whereas Bryan's character and mic work ALONG with his in-ring work has made him a star. Most Charismatic: 1) Daniel Bryan 2) Rush 3) Dean Ambrose Best Technical Wrestler 1) Daniel Bryan 2) Antonio Cesaro 3) Alberto Del Rio Love all these guys, Bryan has been amazing this year Best Brawler: 1) Kevin Steen 2) Sami Callihan 3) Drake Younger Steen is the perennial favorite for this but continues to earn it in my eyes Best Flyer: 1) Ricochet 2) AR Fox 3) Samuray Del Sol Ibushi is always good but I find the above guys to consistently be more original while Ibushi has been doing the same stuff. Most Overrated This is the Triple H award Most Underrated: 1) Antonio Cesaro 2) Willie Mack 3) Kassius Ohno Promotion of the Year. 1) WWE 2) NJPW 3) PWG Best TV Show: 1) NXT 2) Ring Of Honor 3) Raw Rookies: I want to review footage of a lot of guys but here are some guys from a list I've done based on guys who've started since September 1, 2012. Sho Tanaka (NJPW), Yohei Komatsu (NJPW), Hitoshi Kimano (NOAH), Konosuke Takeshita (DDT), Ryotsu Shimizu (Dragon Gate), Hiroki Maruse (WNC), Rionne McAvoy (WNC), Katsumi Oribe (K-Dojo/Osaka Pro), Taiyo Yoneda (K-Dojo/Osaka Pro), Tank Nagai (K-Dojo/Osaka Pro) NXT- Anya, Angelo Dawkins, Baron Corbin, Cal Bishop, Charlotte, Enzo Amore, Eva Marie, Memo Montenegro, Sawyer Fulton, Travis Tyler Best Non-Wrestler: Paul Heyman Best TV announcer Excalibur would be my vote, different platform from others but he excels in it. Show of the Year. 1) G-1 Climax Day 4 2) Summerslam 3) PWG Ten Worst Major Show Would have to think on this Worst Match Would have to think on this Best Move: Antonio Cesaro's uppercut AR Fox's springboard reverse cannonball to the floor (or whatever you call it) is awesome) Most Disgusting Promotional Tactic: Jose Gonzales being booked for a Legends Fan Fest in New Jersey, although in all fairness I doubt anyone gets that upset with Jimmy Snuka. Best Booker: Gedo and Jado Best Promoter: Vice McMahone Best Gimmick: The Shield Best Book: Mad Dogs, Midgets and Screw Jobs (Montreal History) by Pat Laprade and Bertrand Hebert. Also gotta note that Heroes and Icons by Greg Oliver, Steve Johnson and Mike Mooneyham is awesome and makes this a tough call. Best DVD: Barbed Wire City

Awesome, I love listening to you guys and am stoked for this

On Episode 47 of The Wrestling Culture podcast, Dylan and myself come down from our recent wrestling binge-watching to talk about it...before probably going right back to it. We talk about New Japan's G1 Tournament, WWE's Summerslam, Dave's live wrestling experiences this summer, Dylan watching every match to make video in 2013 and just general wrestling geekiness.. Please listen and enjoy. Wrestling Culture Episode 47