JerryvonKramer

I think there's something off in the psychology of working a brawl 2/3 falls. I didn't enjoy the Park stuff I watched much as you know. I'm alright being the outlier with this -- I think the problem is with me rather than the style.

I did really dig MS-1 vs. Sangre Chicana though.

You nailed it Winged Eagle. Lucha just feels like dancing to me, even the brawling comes off as being choregraphed to a level I get can't get on with. Colon has a few weird quirks in his work (like those flips he does), but in the main that stuff just came off like top notch brawling that could have been in a US or Japanese setting. PR also has this pressure cooker atmosphere that is unique in itself and I haven't really got that vibe from Mexico, although I do love the guys in uniform at ringside on the 80s footage.

Dory Funk Jr and Terry Funk vs. Mil Mascaras and Jose Lothario (1/7/79) Going in this has a strong potential to suck almost solely because of the presence of Mil Mascaras who is a human snooze fest that can bring any match down on his own. Hoping this isn't the case here. First fall was quite dull as Mil and Jose work over Terry in an extended heel in peril sequence that consists mainly of a headlock by Lothario. This was there to eat up time. Things pick up when Dory gets the tag and nails Lothario with about six forearms. Second fall continues in better vein as Lothario is face in peril and the Funks are always good game for a heat sequence. Lothario' comeback on Dory is a highlight as is his sweet Russian leg sweep. Very rare for Dory to eat a pinfall! Third fall and we get a mini FIP sequence featuring Mil but Lothario still works the lion's portion. Terry works the Texas jabs. Jose has some sweet punches. This punch exchange has been sweet. Dory comes in and eats some Lothario punches too and sells them pretty well. Bit of flash from Mascaras here. Dumps him for a piledriver outside. This looks like a count out. Oh no. Piledriver in the ring by Dory. Two! Double teaming by the Funks. Mil reverses a sunset flip to get the three on Terry, wow. You don't see the Funks losing clean like hardly ever!!! I enjoyed this. It took a while to get going, about ten minutes, but after Dory tagged in to the finishing stretch it was real solid. Punch exchanges by Terry and Jose were fun and Dory was on fine form. Even Mil didn't suck too much. ***3/4

I'm with you on that.

Wahoo McDaniel vs Terry Funk / Wahoo McDaniel vs. Gino Hernandez (2/6/81) Cool stip with some very logical booking going here as the heel loses with a flash pin allowing a two on one beatdown of our hero. Gino Herndandez seems to be coming out of this footage with his reputation enhanced, and I thought the second match (which is the main one here) told a great story after the early beatdown by Funk. Double juice, violent, sympathetic babyface. Real good and enjoyable stuff here. The NWA Classics service is already terrific value. Wahoo is such a great face. This would suggest that there's a Wahoo vs. Race in the pipeline. ****

Well I'll just go on record to say that I am completely against these anti-footage-watching arguments. Completely. To each their own I guess, but I will continue in the mode I have been.

Why don't you submit your list tonight then Will?

Jose Lothario vs Gino Hernandez (1/19/79) This is the true definition of what a Texas Death Match should be: a brutal stipulation. And Jesus does Lothario kick the crap out of Gino here. Fall after fall after fall. One tactical consideration: is there any real reason to go for the cover? Because you're giving the opponent the chance to get a timeout, so why give them the respite? If it was me, I wouldn't cover. And at one point Gino even seems to submit as a tactical move. I was really surprised by the finish to this, but it was worked real smart and seemed like a very gruelling stipulation. ***3/4

The main outcome of this exchange is that I probably need to check out Tanahashi/Okada. Can you offer some dates?

When that entails watching stuff like the Hansen vs. Colon feud, is it such an awful thing?

I'm all about "doing your homework" Mick, always have been.

I don't think it is wise to behave like there is no such thing as canon. Bill talking as if all pimped matches are on an equal footing is just willfully overlooking the reality of the situation. I don't know of any corner of fandom where Flair vs. Steamboat trilogy isn't pimped. They are "hyper canonical" as matches. Tanahashi vs. Okada just doesn't have that level of cache or history, and I see nothing to be gained from pretending that it does. Just so happens that we're probably in a situation where not a single person here hasn't seen those three matches, but they are just the most exreme example. I don't think there should be "required viewing", but I do think the argument that people shouldn't seek stuff out that is pimped for whatever reason is 100% against the spirit of the project.

Are you really suggesting Bill that the hypothetical fan going into this having never seen Flair-Steamboat trilogy or Flair-Funk or Bret vs. Owen or whatever SHOULDN'T make it a priority to seek those things out?

Hmmm. I'm not sure about that. If you're making a film list, you should make some sort of effort to watch some Hitchcocks, Citizen Kane etc. If you come out of it thinking "well, no, Welles and Hitchcock aren't for me and won't make my list", fine. But I don't like the idea of saying it is "counter intuitive" to fill gaps where said gaps are hyper-canonical or super pimped. If you're going into this without ever having seen the Flair-Steamboat trilogy, you SHOULD make it a priority to see that. I have made 90s All Japan a priority for this exact reason. Bryan is super pimped and a gap of mine, I'm making him a priority. And I do think to some extent that it is "right" that I at least make an effort to see some Bryan. I don't see a negative to doing that. There is time and practicality to consider though, so it becomes about what you prioritise. But saying you shouldn't worry about what you've not seen AT ALL, I think defeats the purpose and if that is what people are saying then we should just run the ballot TODAY. The whole reason for their being a deadline is so people can fill in their gaps or at least get a sense of nominees they are less familiar with.

I'm not sure this statement is in the spirit of this project though. Part of it is about seeking out new stuff.

No, just WWF. As an act the Valiants were light years ahead of their time and Johnny was a great promo. They were kind of like prototype Freebirds. Jimmy has never been good in the ring though and when he got injured and they brought in Jerry circa 1979 what they got was a guy who could work and bump with the best of them. I've made the comparison before, Jerry Valiant was a lot like Bobby Heenan, just a phenomenal bumper. Did the Ray Stevens over the turnbuckle flip, the Heenan-style tumble to the outside, and had good psychology when working heat segments. Probably one of the more underrated workers ever.

I'd like his 15 very very best matches please. Whenever I've looked at Bryan before I've just seen the huge volume and been put off and done something else. Give me the super-high end and I'll go from there.

Martel and Garea Fuji and Saito

Tag-teams Funks Midnights (Eaton / Lane) Midnights (Eaton / Condrey) Jumbo/Baba Choshu/Yatsu Misawa/Kobashi Kawada/Taue Freebirds Rock n Rolls Arn and Ole Arn and Tully Fantastics Rockers Steiners Kroffat and Furnas Jack and Jerry Brisco The Valiants (Johnny and Jerry) Martel and Garea Mr. Fuji and Mr. Saito Doom Hart Foundation The Islanders High Flyers Footloose Steamboat and Youngblood If I had to send in my 25 tomorrow, it would likely be these in some sort of order.

I think if you really despise Jumbo, you shouldn't lose any sleep over leaving him out. I will have Backlund on my list despite being one of his most vocal critics, so in a way I can relate to the dilemma, but I think your hatred of Jumbo seems to outstip my gripes with Bob. The one little ray of hope I have for lucha is Negro Casas, who I've really dug in what I've seen. I'd love to make room for Mocho Cota if possible too, who was a major reason of why that early 80s stuff got over with me so big.

Any reason this was unpinned? I use it quite a bit when looking over stuff to watch for GWE. It's really hard to find if it isn't pinned because the search engine can't find stars. I'm also keeping my list updated as I review stuff.

More towards the Strongbow and Putski range please.

More guys who are guaranteed a place somewhere on my list: Harley Race Giant Baba Ron Garvin Wahoo McDaniel Andre Bob Backlund Dory Funk Jr. Bret Hart Brock Lesnar Bruno Sammartino Riki Choshu Yoshiaki Yatsu Genichiro Tenryu Curt Hennig Jerry Blackwell Pat Patterson 'Macho Man' Randy Savage Vader Would like to include: Lex Luger Rick Rude Hulk Hogan Masa Saito Tommy Rogers Watching more soon: Billy Robinson The Destroyer Buddy Rose Watching more (ongoing): Tatsumi Fujinami Jerry Lawler

I do find it strange you can give lucha matches ***** and claim you don't "get" any of the workers involved in those matches. Also don't see why not getting one guy, even if he is one of the most pimped lucha guys, means you should totally write off all lucha guys. Yeah, I did seem to dig quite a bit of the stuff that I watched of the 80s Lucha set, but also found myself curiously uncompelled to keep watching it, which is probably telling. It's less about Dandy and more about the style and its quirks. I just don't get on with it like I don't get on with modern WWE. I've given modern WWE matches ***** too. John Cena has a shot of making my top 100 so anything is possible, but I'm no longer going to be worrying about my list being "invalid" because of lack of lucha guys.