JerryvonKramer

Needless attack on a legend

Who will be Punk's next opponent? Captain Planet Bucky O'Hare Donatello Panthro Matt Trakker

Inclined to agree with you there. Punk needed to do it in a way that was "true to his indie roots" because that's his cred and that's his brand image. They aren't stupid. And I honestly wouldn't be surprised if a possible future WWE run with Colt as Punk's sidekick wasn't even part of their thinking. I don't doubt that a lot, if not 100%, of the things Punk said were coming from a sincere place, but to think that him and Colt didn't sit around having *that* discussion is naive. Incidentally, I think a lot of the things Vince said were coming from a sincere place too. People have a habit of seeing things from their own perspectives.

There's always going to be some form of work, they are wrestlers. We talked about this off-air on the last Titans recording, but Punk had a lot of good reasons to do it with Cabana. It doesn't hurt his cred, but in fact adds to it, it's true to his brand identity, and they are legit mates. Completely different from if he'd done it with Jericho or Austin.

Do songs by The Grateful Dead or Pink Floyd only make you happy Johnny? The range of human experience and emotion is wider than just "fun" isn't it?

Always find this interesting. So many of my friends stopped watching in 93. So many of the guests we had on stopped in 93. I was hoping some of these patterns would emerge ...

123 Kid beat DiBiase too.

People probably need to include their current ages to make patterns easier to spot.

I like the showdown he has with Lex Luger when he leaves the towel on the mirror.

Not trying to defend Trips, but could it be that most of our guests are around the same age as me -- 32 -- and that if you follow the life trajectory of any fan, the period you stop watching kind of coincides with other big life things like getting married or starting a career or something else? If you assume that of these people most would have been about 8 or 9 around 1990, and 16-18 around the time of the attitude era. The "dark period" falls when most are in their early 20s and sorting a lot of that real-life shit out. Once you're a bit older and more settled in your late 20s and into your 30s, time can start opening up again to watch wrestling. It's just a thought. So many of us have a similar "journey". It's interesting when I've talked to guys like Will and Johnny who are a bit older and have a really different path. They were teenagers and tapping out at WWF cartoon shit many of us have fondness for at a time when many of us were younger. Their "dark periods" are different. So I just wonder if some of it is just generational and non-wrestling related.

More in 2014 than 2013? Internet shopping isn't exactly new at this point.

Has anyone ever beaten Mil Mascaras by pinfall or submission? If so, those matches.

Decline?

If anyone dares suggest Vince for this thread, I will personally come to your house and chew out your liver.

Naturally, disappointed you're starting in 1984 and not beforehand, but leaving that aside ... My advice would be that if you watched all Prime Times, SNMEs and supercards you wouldn't be missing much. Reason? Prime Time showed clips from Superstars of most of the major angles that took place, and some from Challenge. And they showed matches from MSG, Philly, Meadowlands and Maple Leaf Gardens. It's a pretty good "one stop shop". And will save you sitting through all the jobber matches on Superstars and elsewhere. You get a nice cross section of everything that was going on, for the most part Bobby and Gorilla as your hosts, but plenty of Vince and Jesse on commentary for the matches and clips. If you sit through every single TV show and house show, I guarantee you will go out of your mind mental by the 3rd week of viewing. Do you like Johnny Rodz? And you'll get more than your fair share of Rodz on PTW anyway. -------------- For JCP, I don't know what you mean about "sharing with Georgia". Mid Atlantic and GCW had separate TV up until GCW was bought out (by Vince -- this is when Jack and Jerry Brisco join WWF), he gets the TV slot too and then ends up selling it to Crockett for $1 million famously which helped fund the first Wrestlemania. Then JCP starting taping in Atlanta (Techwood). So if you want to "follow" Crockett, you start with Mid-Atlantic TV -- I believe there are sporadic episodes of 81 and 82 and then more from 83 onwards. However, cheaper and quicker way to do things would be to go on youtube and search for: 1. Final Conflict: The Road to Greensboro. This gives you a lot of the build of Steamboat and Youngblood vs. Slaughter and Kernodle. 2. "1984 a year of transition" -- this gives you a lot of cool stuff. Then ... 3. Seek out a mysterious character who may or may not post here, hold four fingers in the air and say "Horsemen". Interact with that figure. Money may or may not change hands. Many hours of wrestling may or may not be yours. That'll see you good until 1988 and the Turner buyout.

OJ, I don't know who he is and have him pegged as "the Japanese Sean Mooney". He provided us with a report on the state of Misawa's nose before the six-man.

http://placetobenation.com/all-japan-excite-series-3/ Strap in for more excitement. Parv and Steven watch four more matches from 90s All Japan Pro Wrestling! 09/04/91 - Mitsuharu Misawa & Toshiaki Kawada vs Jumbo Tsuruta & Akira Taue 10/15/91 - Mitsuharu Misawa, Toshiaki Kawada & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi 10/24/91 - Jumbo Tsuruta vs Toshiaki Kawada 11/29/91 - Mitsuharu Misawa & Toshiaki Kawada vs Jumbo Tsuruta & Akira Taue

We should leave Nintendo out of this probably, because they've been around since the 19th century, but WWE and Disney are at difference stages of their company development. WWE are still transitioning from family-run business to corporation. They are roughly where Disney were in the early 1960s not long before Walt himself died. The things you are talking about will happen, but not until Vince himself has gone. And who knows, maybe the Network will be Vince's Disneyland.

I'm just saying he might be biding his time until he finds the right guy. Even Disney had down periods and slumps. The 1980s spring to mind. And then again in the early 00s. Someone made the analogy to Nintendo. They hung in there with the Gamecube, scarcely relevant and massively disappointing, until they had a big hit with the Wii. Alex Ferguson had some down periods in between his great sides. He was coming 4th in the EPL, squeaking into Europe, and just doing enough to keep Man Utd a "big side". And then he won the EPL again. Sometimes you just have to hang in there and wait it out. I think that's what he's doing. Maybe the next hit doesn't come, but I don't think you can write him off just like that.

But do the WWE or Vince perceive the "12-year slump" as a slump? Or are they happy making the money they are in this tough media environment and uncertain time for television with Cena on top? If the figures weren't adding up, they'd change the main event in a heartbeat and try out new stars there. Vince has been ruthless with talent in the past. I think he would be again. But maybe they are happy with business as it is. There has been much less focus on Vince's positive comments about Ambrose / Rollins / Reigns. He marked them out as being hungrier than the "millennials". He seemed like he was looking for a new Austin and has been looking for one. He just doesn't think he's got it yet. So in the mean-time, place-holder Cena can tide things over. It's much much easier for us to arm-chair book than it is for the guy who has to take the actual risk and suffer the potential consequences. He's the one who stands to actually lose money.

Yeah quite a bit. Some good matches but I don't like the modern product, what can I say? I loved this interview.

But dude, that's every wrestling promotion ever. Not everyone can be a main eventer. There's always someone who doesn't get the push they want despite being good enough. Every promotion ever.

As we talked about on WTBBP, the Van Hammer push was really brief shutting Meltz up when the company saw the same things he was. Dylan was discussing the misuse of Cesaro at least a year ago when he was building him up as wrestler of the year. This isn't some flavor of the week narrative that has just surfaced up. Guess the point is: if it wasn't that, it'd be something else. "Guy not getting the push he deserves / Guy getting push he doesn't deserve" are basically permanent narratives in smart fan discourse. Literally two-a-penny. If it wasn't Cesaro, it'd be another guy. Just happens to be Cesaro right now.

Right, Loss, I just can't think of one right now. Ha ha.

"You guys" as in "wrestling fans out there who read Meltzer post online" rather than PWO members. I did think twice about it, but clarification seems necessary. I am convinced that the Cesaro stuff is not a million miles removed from Meltzer in 91 hating Van Hammer's push. It's a two-a-penny issue of the day that no one will care about even in one year from now.