JerryvonKramer

I'm not completely down on Gibson. I said this before: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?s=&a...t&p=5547868 And this: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?s=&a...t&p=5561711 I'll give him a bit of credit where it is due, but still think that you could take anyone from Terry Taylor to Paul Roma and stuck him with Morton and it wouldn't have dented the RnRs success. In fact, it might have helped them because unlike Gibson, Taylor and Roma were actually "sexy" (sort of). If a guy is that replaceable, can he really be that much better than average?

And I suppose you agree with him that Magnum TA was average then?

Lots of average wrestlers made it in the territories or had decent careers. I guess the question would be could he have made it as far? I personally think Gibson on his own would have been at jobber level once the territory days were over about the same level as Randy Rose. Also I love how W2BTD lists a pile of pretty good workers as average and it's my naming Gibson that gets attention. Is it just that I'm more fun to argue with?

So had Ron Bass. You asked if he could make it without Ricky, The answer is yes. There's making it and then there's making it.

So had Ron Bass.

Do you think he would have made it without Ricky? Now think about it the other way around. Would Ricky have made it? There's nothing about Gibson that suggests to me that he's anything above average.

If you watch enough SST matches, I think it's clear to see that Samu was the good worker out of the two of them. I don't think they have a single good match after he's replaced by Samoan Savage. I absolutely HATE Tom Zenk, with burning passion, but his dropkick was okay and he could do a job as a lower midcarder jobbing out in 5 minutes to the latest heel. And Dylan - if we were to get super in-depth with Rude, I think 89 and 92 were the only years he was really great. Arguably he was actively bad before 89; and 90 and 93 were both disappointing. In 93 he should have never shaved his moustache off, it was the beginning of the end!

Yeah but Rude vs. Steamboat at Beach Blast 92 and Rude vs. Chono at NJPW G1 Climax 1992 are both great matches. We can say Rude was a good worker who could have great nights and real bad off nights. That doesn't make him average but inconsistent. Also, so it doesn't seem like I'm just picking on W2BTD, I'll chuck out some workers I consider to be average and stick my neck on the line too: Randy Rose Kevin Sullivan Fatu Tom Zenk Bad News Brown Robert Gibson

Rude from 89 to 92 was probably a top 10 US worker in my view, even allowing for his penchant for sitting in chinlocks. He was better than average, you simply don't get heat like he got by being average. You don't have matches like he did with Warrior or Steamboat by being average. That said, I'd agree with the person who said he could really dog it in a match. When he didn't click with someone it was mostly bad (see Flair) and he was mostly pretty shitty before 89, even allowing for some cool stuff tagging with Manny. But at his peak there's no way he was average. With Valentine, why is he always judged post-peak?

Magnum T.A. - better than Sting Lex Luger - better than Sting Triple H - better than Sting Bill Eadie - better than Sting Greg Valentine - flat out insane opinion Rick Rude - much better than Sting

Most of the guys in W2BTD's list are average but not good in my book.

Please let's make FIFTEEN backups before doing any of this. I don't want to bury DVDR but it has been shite since the losing the archives.

I might try to come up with some criticisms of DiBiase who I consider to be "great". I might also try Arn and Flair.

Not listened to this yet but would recommend my boy Kelly (RickyJackson) for Calgary.

Nothing involving Blassie can suck

Terry Taylor

Bob Backlund vs. Harley Race (9/22/80) Rick Martel vs. Brad Rheingans (9/9/84) I kid, I kid. Though those are both E-rated matches in my book (about -**). Then of course there was this travesty: Steve Regal vs. Buck Zumhofe (11/28/85) Ughhhhhhhh Pretty much ANY match featuring Kung-Fu Billy Graham in JCP, who is just sooo shit and awful that it's actively sad to see him. But for the worst match that was so bad it almost broke wrestling my vote goes for the 3-minute atrocity that Chad and I watched recently on Clash of the Champions 13: Sid Vicious vs. The Nightstalker In the hundreds of matches we've watched on WTBBP, that has got to be the absolute worst. It's a total clusterfuck, awful, awful work, execution and so on, clusterfuck booking that makes no sense, a CARDBOARD AXE. All inside 3 minutes. If it's not the worst match of all-time, it's got at least to be a contender for worst match of the 90s and worst match of WCW period.

You guys are all nuts. That match is awesome!

Yes, we're breaking up the discs more to give ourselves more space to get into talking points. Also aiming to go closer to 2 hours than 3 hours ... though with us four on the line that is often tough! It's all about acoustics and the way the stadium is shaped. The old Wembley retained sound pretty well. Other stadiums -- famously the one in Monaco -- just let sound escape. It's about having open ends. I heard before an oval shape lets the sound escape too. You want a more classic "box-y" type stadium with the big over hangs over the the seats. Look at the old Wembley Stadium: The the roof comes all the way over the crowd. That sound is going to bounce back off the roof and into the ground. Let's look at the Metlife: The sound has nothing to bounce off so it's just going to escape into the sky. You wouldn't hear anything if the fans were shouting with all their lung capacity.

http://placetobenation.com/where-the-big-b...the-uk-special/ Chad and Parv join with Allan Blackstock of the Wrestling Eye Podcast and welcome guests including wrestling historian, writer and author John Lister, and, from the UKFan Forum, Ring Announcer for Welsh Wrestling, Gareth Maybury (aka Butchreed Mark). Topics include: - run down of WoS wrestling and its history - the story of how US Wrestling came to the UK - how it got on TV - how the landscape in the UK changed - thoughts on Summerslam 1992 and much more! This is a joint episode with the Wrestling Eye podcast. You can find their show here: http://wrestlingeye.libsyn.com/ The PWO-PTBN Podcast Network features great shows you can find right here at Place to Be Nation. By subscribing on iTunes or SoundCloud, you’ll have access to new episodes, bonus content, as well as a complete archive of: Where the Big Boys Play, Titans of Wrestling, Pro-Wrestling Super-Show, Good Will Wrestling, and Wrestling With the Past.

I thought this was a great show.

I believe there is one out there, but I've not listened to it and the name escapes me now. Eventually, Chad and I will cover some Nitro shows. Look out for that ... in 2018.

lol, how did I get this rep?

I'd recommend Old School Wrestling Podcast with Dre and Blackcat: http://www.flairchop.com/ Although their first 75 or so episodes you'd have to get on DVD now which are about $10 each (2 DVDs). Probably worth it for 100s of hours of audio though. I like those guys because they aren't smarky and don't try to relate everything back to modern WWE when they talk about old shows, which drives me up the frigging wall. I'm not keen on the LAW for this reason. They are casual old-school fans who are fun to listen to. Less analytical than WTBPP though, less well informed than most on the pods you'll find on this site, and probably not as funny as my man Johnny Sorrow. But still, I rate this show quite highly. The unrelated OSW video reviews of old WWF PPVs by a bunch of Irish lads (Jay Hunter being the main one) are slickly put together. But these shows have a more "modern fans looking back and making fun of old wrestling" feel to them. They can be funny on occasion though and the videos are very well edited. Other stuff I've found out there that focuses primarily on match reviews rates from "just about listenable" to abysmal. For podcasts that don't focus on match reviews, anything presented by Will is going to be good (Good Will Wrestling, Wrestling with the Past) and shows that feature his co-host Charles tend to highlight particular matches in particular years or in the careers of workers. Charles is pretty good at picking out key matches while providing a broader overview.

Surprised Chad wasn't all over this