JerryvonKramer

Everything about Demolition being in the game -- and that version of Demolition -- smacks of a last-minute decision to me. I also can't imagine why else Crush has that reverse neckbreaker animation. Did he ever do a reverse neckbreaker? The roster has quite a mid-1990 feel, but Slaughter's inclusion in the game with unique animiations suggests late 90 to me at the earliest, assuming they knew what they were going to do with him. That would explain the prominance of Earthquake and Bossman too, who both had a big 1990.

It's surely because the game came out shortly after Wrestlemania 7 after Savage lost the retirement match. You'll notice that it's Smash and Crush with no Ax in Demolition too. The bigger question for me regarding that game's roster is Undertaker. He was being built up and yet isn't in the game. It's also interesting that Bret Hart didn't make the cut. And I guess that they went with Demolition over The Rockers. As someone who pumped more 20ps into that machine than most I have a little theory ... I can only guess that most of the development came in 1990 and Smash and Crush were re-paints of guys who were replaced. They are the only guys who have really odd movesets in the game. Crush does a Rude Awakening-style neckbreaker, for example. And is a mess of a character. It's a guess, but I've got an idea that Rick Rude was going to be in the game before he left. Smash has no unique moves, and has a lot of the same animations as Ted DiBiase. It's possible that Smash was originally planned as Savage and Crush was planned as Rude. Possible.

Almost fell off my chair laughing

Did Warrior ever lock up with Ric Flair in 92?

Join us again for Titans of Wrestling. We're in November 1979 now, and seeing Hogan's WWF debut is absolutely fascinating. Also, watch Dominic Denucci and Great Arab Hussein invent ECW -- not one to be missed! http://placetobenation.com/titans-of-wrest...-november-1979/ Join Parv, James, Kelly, Pete and the one and only Johnny Sorrow once again for more WWF in 1979. On the docket tonight: 11-03 BOBBY DUNCUM vs BILL BERGER ALL STAR WRESTLING 11-03 GREAT HUSSEIN ARAB vs DOMINIC DENUCCI CHAMPIONSHIP WRESTLING 11-03 LARRY ZBYSZKO vs BILLY COLEMAN CHAMPIONSHIP WRESTLING 11-17 WILD SAMOANS vs DOMINIC DENUCCI/JOHNNY RIVERA ALL STAR WRESTLING 11-17 HULK HOGAN vs HARRY VALDEZ DEBUT CHAMPIONSHIP WRESTLING 11-17 BATTLE ROYAL PHILADELPHIA SPECTRUM 11-17 JAY STRONGBOW vs BOBBY DUNCUM PHILADELPHIA SPECTRUM 11-17 BOB BACKLUND vs PAT PATTERSON WWF TITLE PHILADELPHIA SPECTRUM 11-30 BOB BACKLUND vs ANTONIO INOKI WWF TITLE JAPAN Also on tonight's show: - James debuts a new feature: "on this day in 1979" - Kelly's jobber bio marathon, plus bios for The Wild Samoans, Hulk Hogan, and Gorilla Monsoon - Who would Dominic Denucci be in The Godfather? - Who were the best Samoan team? - Johnny channels Gary Michael Cappetta to introduce the 18-man battle royal - And loads more fun and nonsense The PWO-PTBN Podcast Network features great shows you can find right here at Place to Be Nation. By subscribing on iTunes or SoundCloud, you’ll have access to new episodes, bonus content, as well as a complete archive of: Where the Big Boys Play, Titans of Wrestling, Pro-Wrestling Super-Show, Good Will Wrestling, and Wrestling With the Past.

Kabuki to win it in 23:56 with the boring-as-hell nerve hold applied for 95% of the match.

I was thinking more along the lines of a Billy Robinson or a Danny Hodge. A prowrestler who could shoot. Although that day I was talking about it with some friends, it was noted that Hogan was almost a full foot taller than Tyson, so I imagined that he could he have just put his hand on his forehead and Tyson couldn't have reached him since Hogan's arms were obviously longer too. Trip, big boot, legdrop, 1,2 3.

It's absolutely ridiculous that Rodz beat DiBiase. If Kelly can get a bio for Gypsy Rodriguez, I'll be impressed. Massive nerd-reference incoming, but the only Mr. X I know is this guy: Poor Sylvia.

I actually came up with the 160. I sat down and just wrote down every name I could think of from late 89 / early 90 and before I knew it there were like 130 guys there. Then I went and had a look at cards, yearbook and Brick listings for anyone I missed before Chad checked it. I had them subdivided by WWF, WCW, USWA and then a few interesting cases from elsewhere (Hansen, Vader, Zybysko -- all on that Feb Tokyo card I'd recently watched) Chad mentioned some more USWA guys and naturally I was all like "nah man SD Jones". What was Sarge even doing in early 90? Completely slipped my mind and didn't see him on the cards. I'd love to see a card of guys who didn't make the cut. Owen was another one. Zeus. Rip Morgan. Nitron. Got yourself a hell of main event there

Actually, I came back in to raise two points: 1. The question of whether the person giving a move or taking it gets credit. I mentioned that because from your description the match seemed to have Warrior on offense and just from knowing Rude, something like an atomic drop is 90% him because of the lengths he goes to sell the move. 2. That being the case, to say that the question of "pacing" or who laid out the match (by all accounts Patterson), isn't really in question, because Rude could still be doing 90% of the work. And, make no bones about it: I left it not because I don't have the stomach to watch the match or argue the point, it's because I can't stand you, like I can't stand nails across a chalk board. I can't put it any more plainly. But this is boring to everyone here now, and we should both move beyond it for the good of the forum. The question of Rude vs. Warrior will still rest, I think, on where we attribute "credit". Where Warrior is giving suplexes and atomic drops, how much of the "work" is being done by Rude there? It doesn't really matter that Patterson laid out the match and that Warrior was taking instruction, what matters in terms of the "carrying" is how much of the work was being done by Rude and whether you might have replaced Warrior with a broomstick. I am perfectly happy to concede the point that it might not be a carry job. As I said, I have nothing invested in it. I'll watch the match tomorrow.

Kung-Fu era Billy Graham is possibly the worst wrestler of all time. It's close between him and the likes of El Gigante or Zeus. What actually happened to Graham after his title run? Before I watch any of this stuff, how big is the gap between him in his prime and the god-awfulness of the pathetic figure we see in Crockett?

I've been trying to think of some more. That Cornette vs. Paul E. feud and match from 1989 is really fun. The match is about as perfect as it could be for two managers. Also, how much do people talk about Piper vs. Rude from 89? The MSG cage match from SNME sticks in my mind as having great heat. I also have "I'm thankful because I ain't Ricky Rude. *kiss*" etched into my memory. That feud is the epitome of FUN for me. Umm .... I really really like Perfect vs. Luger in 93 too. Matches are okay, I guess, but love the dynamic of that feud. "Out of these two colossal egos, who has the bigger one?" There might be an argument to say that little 3-month stretch leading into WM9 was Hennig's best stuff in WWF in terms of being a great on-screen character. He was a remarkably cocky babyface for that time, and somehow the aura of him being "Mr. Perfect" with the crowd cheering too is just very cool. I wish that Luger could have stayed heel and that we got more of that feud. I seldom see anyone but me talk about it. They did a great call back to it at WMX when Perfect was the ref, but again I don't think it went anywhere. -- sadly doesn't look like any of this made the 93 yearbook either. Finally, I'm still greatly amused by the "Sapphire gets bought" feud, not just the concept of DiBiase "buying" this useless woman just to be a prick, but all the stuff around it. Especially the scene they play over and over again on Place to Be with Dusty searching for her and Duggan busting out "No I haven't, Dust, but we're all still looking for her" I tend to gravitate towards the nonsense. I think the natural place to look for in-ring stuff would be WCW for the entirety of the time Hogan was on top.

I think the Jake vs. Savage feud is definitely a combination of angles and promos carrying it. I agree with the general idea that it stands out because of its difference from everything else going on at that time in WWF. The promos are notable for how off-the-hook intense they are and how close to the bone they get. You add that to the shock of Liz getting slapped and it's not the sort of feud you forget. But my point with the promos was more general. i.e. "With, Jake, it's all about the promos". The Ted vs. Jake feud is one where I'd say Jake's promos are really carrying things. If Jake ever had a match higher than about a ***1/2 in WWF, I've never seen it.

Look. I'll try to put this as politely as I can. If anyone else in the entire world wanted to argue the point, I'd have been happy to. But I'd rather have someone take a power drill to my skull than to have to have speak to you for a second longer. That's all it is. I like wrestling and talking about it. Love it. Whenever I start doing that with your involvement I can feel the blood slowly draining away. I'm happy if the feeling's mutual. I don't care who likes you or who likes me. Okay. I don't like being negative or aggressive, doesn't feel pleasant. Never ends well. You are making it difficult for me to post here. Especially if you're going to wade into every thread I make. I will try to stay out of your way.

Save yourself the effort, I've edited the OP to reflect your correctives.

All about the promos.

First one that popped into my head was the Jake and Savage feud which blew off at This Tuesday in Texas. Most of Jake's WWF feuds would probably be good for this thread, but that's the pick of them for me.

I haven't seen the match in years. I figured the guys on the podcast had though and my memory of it is being a carry job. I may be tempted into a re-watch. I have no investment one way or the other.

Might as well share the rules and talent pool here. I'm sure Loss will enjoy Chad's love letter to the USWA. The Scenario: It's 1990 and the 20-year old Sheikh Mansour has decided that he loves American pro wrestling and would like to own it. His father, the multi-billionaire Emir Zayed II, decides that for his birthday he'll give his son what he wants. He promptly buys WWF from Vince McMahon for an undisclosed fee, but fearing that this is not enough goes ahead and buys WCW from Ted Turner and USWA from Jerry Jarrett too -- along with all of the contracts for every company, with the sole exception of Kamala who was fired on the spot. But this is not enough for the young Mansour. He wants to see the best wrestling possible on well-booked, well-paced supercards. So Zayed appoints four trusted wrestling "experts" with the task -- but to make things more interesting, he sets them in competition with each other. The winner gets to run the company with the roster he has put together; as for the three losers ... The Rules: 1. There is a talent pool of 160 people. 2. Rosters are to be selected using "draft picks" in serpentine order; no one gets left behind; no picks can be skipped. 3. After the rosters are selected, there will be a chance for listeners to vote in a poll for who has the best roster and the best booked card. (10 points for each vote) 4. In addition to filling up a roster of at least 30 wrestlers, each booker must also ensure that they have drafted a broadcast team and other key non-wrestlers. They must have: - A commentary team (at least two, can have up to three) - An interviewer (at least one, can have up to two) - A ring announcer (can only have one) - An on-air authority figure - A referee - A manager (at least two, can have up to four) Bookers will incur a 5-point penalty if any of these positions are not filled and a 10-point penalty for failing to have at least 30 active wrestlers on the roster. You cannot employ obvious non-wrestlers in wrestling roles -- for example, Gordon Solie is not stepping in the ring to compete, period. "Margin calls" where nonwrestlers have wrestling ability and have been employed as wrestlers (e.g. Bobby Heenan or Lord Alfred Hayes) can be decided by the High Council. 5. No one pulls double duty: e.g. Roddy Piper cannot be a commentator and an active wrestler; Bobby Heenan cannot do colour and be a manager. 6. Bookers get a four-week lead-in time to book their supercard. 7. Every single wrestler on the roster must be used on the supercard. There will be a 5-point penalty for every wrestler not used. 8. Bookers must establish their world heavyweight champion, secondary champion and tag champions. They may create further titles as they please. 9. Battle Royales may have no more than 20 wrestlers and there can only be one on each card. Bad News Brown has it written into his contract that he cannot be booked as part of a battle royale. The Talent Pool: Abdullah the Butcher Akeem Akio Sato Al Perez Alexandra York Andre Arn Anderson Ax Bad News Brown Bam Bam Bigelow Barbarian Barry Horrowitz Barry Windham Big Boss Man Big Van Vader Bill Dundee Billy Joe Travis Bob Caudle Bob Orton Jr Bobby Eaton Bobby Heenan Boris Zhukov Brad Armstrong Bret Hart Brian Pillman British Bulldog Brooklyn Brawler Brutus Beefcake Buddy Rose Bushwacker Butch Bushwacker Luke Butch Reed Buzz Sawyer Cactus Jack Chris Adams Dan Spivey Dave Brown Dino Bravo Dragon Master Dusty Rhodes Earl Hebner Earthquake Eddie Gilbert El Gigante Elizabeth Eric Bischoff Eric Embry Fatu Gary Hart Gary Michael Capetta Gene Okerlund Gordon Solie Gorilla Monsoon Great Muta Greg Valentine Haku Hercules Hernandez Hillbilly Jim Honkytonk Man Howard Finkel Hulk Hogan Iron Sheik Ivan Koloff Jack Tunney Jack Victory Jake Roberts Jeff Jarrett Jerry Lawler Jesse Ventura Jim Cornette Jim Duggan Jim Herd Jim Neidhart Jim Powers Jim Ross Jimmy Garvin Jimmy Hart Jimmy Snuka Joey Marella John Tatum Johnny Ace Junkyard Dog Ken Patera Kerry von Erich Kevin Sullivan Koko B. Ware Lance Russell Lanny Poffo Larry Zybysko Lex Luger Lord Alfred Hayes Mark Callous Marty Jannetty Matt Borne Michael Buffer Michael Hayes Mike McGuirk Mike Rotunda Mr Fuji Mr Pefect Mr Saito Nick Patrick Nikolai Volkoff Norman the Lunatic Ole Anderson Oliver Humperdink Pat Tanaka Paul Diamond Paul E. Dangerously Paul Orndorff Paul Roma Percy Pringle Randy Anderson Randy Savage Ranger Ross Ric Flair Rick Martel Rick Rude Rick Steiner Ricky Morton Ricky Steamboat Road Warrior Animal Road Warrior Hawk Robert Gibson Roddy Piper Ron Garvin Ron Simmons Samoan Savage Samu Scott Steiner SD Jones Sean Mooney Sensational Sherri Shane Douglas Shawn Michaels Sid Slick Smash Snowman Stan Hansen Stan Lane Steve Austin Steve Williams Sting Ted DiBiase Teddy Long Terry Funk Terry Taylor Tito Santana Tom Zenk Tommy Rich Tony Atlas Tony Schiavone Tugboat Tully Blanchard Ultimate Warrior Vince McMahon Virgil Warlord Woman

http://placetobenation.com/where-the-big-b...-fantasy-draft/ To celebrate their 50th show, Chad and Parv welcome Chad’s “other” co-host, Brad, and Titans of Wrestling regular Kelly for an experimental format: the 1990 Fantasy Draft! Click through to find the rules as well as the draft results and fantasy booking sheets. Don’t forget to vote in the polls to tell us who did the best job! Please vote using the polls on PTBN, but let us know your thoughts here too. Thanks for listening.

As to jdw's point, I made a thread once that would be super-relevant to this where we discussed who "takes credit" for certain moves: the guy on offense or the guy taking the move? I recall Jingus and other guys who have had in-ring training had some good insights and contributions to that, but I can't for the life of me find it. Might have been one of my rare threads over at DVDR. The atomic drop by Ultimate Warrior that you mention is a good case in point, since just from knowing the way Rude sold Atomic Drops, that's at least 90% Rude. Even if Patterson laid the match out and it's not "Rude pacing", it's still a massive, massive carry job.