JerryvonKramer

New Japan 1.5 Gran Hamada vs. Babyface (4/3/80) Interesting to see these two in a second context now. I like the way this alternates between matwork and explosive moments of action. Hamada's dropkicks look great. Spot where Babyface backdrops Hamada only to see him land on his feet is cool. Babyface looks good dishing out the bombs and I enjoyed the suplex variations. Don't understand the finish at all. No way that was a three count. Good without ever being stellar. *** New Japan 1.6 Antonio Inoki vs. Stan Hansen (4/3/80) This has got to be better than the last matchup between these two. Inoki focuses on the lariat arm; Hansen replies with headlocks and strikes. This keeps moving a lot more than the last match, which is good. Hansen goes for the lariat, Inoki bails. Inoki does have a very "slappable" face. It's the chin. Gets Hansen back down on the mat and sits in a leglock. A lot of struggle and punching from Hansen. I feel like Hansen is the only one of these two who is interested in keeping this compelling for the audience. Still not really feeling this match up, mainly because of Inoki. He makes it very difficult to get invested in what is going on. I've had a big problem with him so far. **1/2 New Japan 1.7 Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Chavo Guerrero (5/9/80) This is worked very cleanly to start before Chavo starts busting out the uppercuts. Fujinami controls by keeping it on the mat. Chavo keeps trying to turn it into a slugfest. I really like how Chavo gets progressively more heelish as this wears on. The double-face-stomp is such a nasty move. Fujinami takes it back to the mat. If this match was a conversation so far it would be something like: Fujinami: Let's see who the better wrestler is using our scientific knowledge of holds. Chavo: Shut the fuck up and fight me you total pussy! It makes for a great dynamic. Chavo's punches look great as he lays them in. Goes for a piledriver. Doesn't quite get it. Fallaway slam?? No, he rolls it forward. Odd move. Fujinami loses out in a criss-cross and a big somersault gets 2 for Chavo. Fujinami is losing the strategic battle now. Chavo is succeeding in turning this into a brawl. Fujinami hits a splash from the stop for two and now gives in and starts lashing out with strikes. Suplex gets 2. Chavo rolls Fujinami up for 2 out of nowhere and Fujinami is pissed so just throws him out. Dropkick by Chavo. Bitchslap. Full nelson by Fujinami. GERMAN SUPLEX. That's it, for three. This was a phenomenal match out of nowhere. I was expecting it to be good, but not quite this good. Great stuff this. ****1/2 New Japan 1.8 Antonio Inoki vs. Stan Hansen (5/9/80) Fred Blassie!! This one starts much more like a brawl. I hope they can keep this more of a "Hansen match" than an "Inoki match". Hansen takes it to the mat and drives his knees into Inoki's legs. I think Hansen is perhaps my favourite of any guy working holds. He's always brutal, always interesting. Never leaves it so the two of them are just sitting there. And he has a great moustache at this point in time. Inoki smashes his elbow into Hansen's gut and the crowd erupt. Starts working the lariat arm. And this is exhibit A in matwork that is not compelling to me. Hansen goes for a lariat but Inoki ducks it and hits an armdrag. Into an armbar now. I really don't like Inoki on the mat, he's boring as hell. Thankfully it doesn't last long and Hansen takes over on offence. Big elbow drop. Big atomic drop. Great knee drop. Drives that knee into that massive chin. Inoki bails. Tentative faceoff now. Inoki hits a sly inzaguri. And another one. Hansen comes come with strikes and a headbutt. Inoki cuts him off and slams his head into the mat. Hansen focuses on Inoki's leg now and drives his knee into Inoki's calf and shin area. Know he's needling his elbow in there. Stomp on the groin. And again. Nasty. These knees look like they really hurt. Eventurally Inoki kicks him in the face. And hits a backdrop. Hansen cuts him off. Knee across the chest. Swinging neckbreaker. Lateral press. Piledriver!! Fuck yes! Those brutal knees and kicks to the head now. Running knee. Big splash ... Inoki gets his knees up. LARIAT!!! Inoki falls out of the ring. Brawling outside now. Hansen gets posted. Blassie is lurking. Looked like it was going for a double countout but no. Inoki eats the post now. Lariat outside. Hansen for the countout win? No! Big suplex by Hansen now who is bleeding from the middle of his forehead. A flurry of stomps from him now on Inoki's larynx. He pushes the ref away. The seconds all hit the ring and Hansen pushes them off. This was more like it. Amazing Hansen performance dragging boring-as-fuck Inoki to a great match. Brilliant. ****3/4 Quick rest before completing the disc. I need some more tea.

Johnny Sorrow: the Rick Rude of podcasting.

Realistic options: - Dr Death - Barry Windham - Rick Steiner - Sting Outside-of-the-box options: - Dick Murdoch - Ron Simmons - Eddie Gilbert - either of The Fantastics as singles guys Thoughts?

Real quick on the Ivan JCP stuff: 84 - early in the year he was Mid-Atlantic Champion and feuded with Angelo Mosca mostly in semi-mains culminating in a Russian Chain match and finally dropping it in April. - transitions to tagging with Don Kernodle and feuds with Wahoo and Mark Youngblood sometimes in semi-mains, sometimes in mains - won a tournament in Toronto for the "Canadian Heavyweight Title". Defeated Brian Adidas in the final. - wins tag titles with Kernodle in May vs. Wahoo and Youngblood - headlines plenty of shows defending tag titles against Dusty and Wahoo Typically if Flair is on the card, the match is bumped to semi-main. Par example: JCP @ Roanoke, VA - Civic Center - June 2, 1984 Mark Fleming defeated Bobby Bass Keith Larson defeated Gary Quarternelli Barry Hart defeated Paul Kelly Mark Youngblood defeated Kurt Von Hess Pez Whatley defeated Jeff Sword Angelo Mosca Jr. fought the Outlaw to a draw National Tag Team Champions the Road Warriors fought NWA Tag Team Champions Ivan Koloff & Don Kernodle to a no contest NWA World Champion Ric Flair defeated Dick Slater JCP @ Norfolk, VA - June 7, 1984 Paul Kelly defeated Keith Larson Johnny Weaver defeated Bob Bass Pez Whatley defeated Kurt Von Hess Kamala defeated Barry Hart Stan Hansen defeated Jesse Barr Rufus R. Jones defeated the Assassin Harley Race defeated Angelo Mosca Jr. The Road Warriors fought the Junkyard Dog & King Kong Bundy to a no contest Wahoo McDaniel defeated NWA TV Champion Tully Blanchard The Freebirds defeated Ivan Koloff & Don Kernodle via disqualification NWA US Champion Ricky Steamboat fought NWA World Champion Ric Flair to a draw However, if Flair isn't on the card, they'll main event. Even against the likes of Mark Youngblood and The Renegade. Many examples, mostly on your typical JCP loop. Match is above Tully as TV champ. JCP @ Norfolk, VA - July 19, 1984 Nikita Koloff defeated Vinnie Valentino Tom Shaft defeated Ali Bey Barry Hart & Sam Houston defeated Bobby Bass & Jeff Sword Angelo Mosca Jr. defeated the Outlaw Buzz Sawyer defeated Jimmy Valiant NWA TV Champion Tully Blanchard defeated Brian Adidas NWA Tag Team Champions Ivan Koloff & Don Kernodle defeated the Renegade & Mark Youngblood However, there are exceptions to this, such as when Tully is working Dusty or Steamboat. On cards where they work singles, Ivan is above Kernodle, like so: JCP @ Greenwood, SC - Memorial Auditorium - October 1, 1984 Denny Brown defeated Jeff Sword The Zambuie Express defeated Sam Houston & Joel Deaton Manny Fernandez defeated Don Kernodle Assassin #1 defeated the Ultimate Assassin Barry Windham defeated Nikita Koloff via disqualification Dusty Rhodes defeated Ivan Koloff JCP @ Keanansville - October 11, 1984 Sam Houston defeated Jeff Sword Nikita Koloff defeated Mike Fever The Zambouie Express defeated Mike Davis & Keith Larson Brian Adidas defeated Don Kernodle via disqualification Manny Fernandez defeated Ivan Koloff JCP @ Hampton, VA - October 12, 1984 Joel Deaton defeated Paul Kelly The Zambouie Express defeated Sam Houston & Denny Brown The Assassin defeated Jimmy Valiant Ron Bass & Black Bart defeated Manny Fernandez & Mike Rotundo Don Kernodle defeated Brian Adidas NWA TV Champion Tully Blanchard fought Manny Fernandez to a draw Dusty Rhodes defeated Ivan Koloff - By the end of the year Nikita has replaced Kernodle as Ivan's partner. Still in the main event. JCP @ Charlotte, NC - December 9, 1984 Denny Brown defeated Sam Houston Kareem Muhammad defeated Brian Adidas The Assassin defeated Elijah Akeem in a taped fist match Ricky Steamboat & Dick Slater defeated Black Bart & Ron Bass via disqualification NWA US Champion Wahoo McDaniel defeated Buzz Tyler NWA World Champion Ric Flair defeated NWA TV Champion Tully Blanchard NWA Tag Team Champions Dusty Rhodes & Manny Fernandez defeated Ivan & Nikita Koloff in a steel cage match ----------- Before moving onto 1985, can we really write 1984 off for Ivan? He worked on top more than you'd expect that year for MACW. I need to know that there's any point in moving on before I do.

There's a marked shift in 1992 when you get those title switches at house shows. I don't know if anyone has ever written on the change in that philosophy, but we get a lot of stuff happening off-screen all of a sudden. Money Inc title wins, Piper's IC title win, Bret's title win, some of the Money Inc - Steiners stuff in 93. I remember having my mind blown reading PWI around that time.

Very good show this so far, about half way through. I'm glad that all three of you have voted for Ivan Koloff and to see that KrisZ did too. The Mark Lewin stuff has been fascinating.

http://placetobenation.com/titans-of-wrest...o-october-1979/ James can't get a break from work, so Parv is joined by Kelly, Johnny and Pete to take on more WWF from 1979. On the docket tonight: 08 INTERCONTINENTAL CHAMPION PAT PATTERSON PROMO WWF TV 09-24 BOB BACKLUND vs PAT PATTERSON WWF TITLE/CAGE MATCH MADISON SQUARE GARDEN 09-24 JAY STRONGBOW vs NIKOLAI VOLKOFF MADISON SQUARE GARDEN 10-20 BRUNO SAMMARTINO vs NIKOLAI VOLKOFF PHILADELPHIA SPECTRUM 10-22 VALIANTS vs IVAN PUTSKI/TITO SANTANA TAG TITLE MADISON SQUARE GARDEN 10-22 BOB BACKLUND vs SWEDE HANSON WWF TITLE MADISON SQUARE GARDEN 10-22 BRUNO SAMMARTINO vs GREG VALENTINE MADISON SQUARE GARDEN 10-22 DUSTY RHODES vs JIMMY VALIANT MADISON SQUARE GARDEN 10-22 PAT PATTERSON vs TED DIBIASE IC TITLE MADISON SQUARE GARDEN In this week's show: - More from 'the Mailbag' including WWF escape-the-cage rules, should Andre vs. Backlund have been a feud, other territories in 1979, angles on tv at this time, and more - What happened to the North American title post-Pat Patterson? - Johnny adds Nikolai Volkoff singing to his repertoire - Bruno invents ECW and Chief Jay Strongbow wrestles in a shark cage - Andy Kaufman in WWF in 1979!!! - Bio for Swede Hanson - 'Fanny' in the US and in the UK The PWO-PTBN Podcast Network features great shows you can find right here at Place to Be Nation. By subscribing on iTunes or SoundCloud, you’ll have access to new episodes, bonus content, as well as a complete archive of: Where the Big Boys Play, Titans of Wrestling, Pro-Wrestling Super-Show, Good Will Wrestling, and Wrestling With the Past.

That's more or less it Dylan. His case, I'd say largely rests on how big that team was for Mid-Atlantic and how influential they were on other teams of the time.

Doing a bio on Swede Hanson earlier for Titans, it seems to me that Rip Hawk is a pretty strong candidate on the ballot.

Maybe tomorrow. Without looking, my prediction is that when Flair wasn't on the card, those matches headlined.

Matt D - you are selling Ivan's Paul Jones's army stuff very short there. I jest, I jest. HOWEVER, JCP is one place where you can point to tag-teams main eventing and drawing. Russians vs. Road Warriors would have done business and drawn some gates. Russians vs. R n Rs and Russians vs. America's Team also. I wouldn't just dismiss the run out of hand. While I think the bulk of Ivan's case rests on 69-81, without looking it up, I can almost guarantee you'll find some reasonably impressive Greensboro or Omni shows with those matches on top. Am I wrong?

Dylan, since you mention Ivan / Patera again -- do you think that the fact Ivan was able to transition into a new era of wrestling in the 1980s adds to his case at all? It's one thing he has over Patera, but I haven't pushed it in this thread much.

I'm really looking forward to that show. Thought Pete F was awesome on our AWA redo Chad -- just a kickass cool voice -- and I love listening to Charles. Shame Scott and Justin couldn't get a bigger name to represent Georgia, eh. I listened to all of this show too, but forgot to comment. It was good, and naturally I was rooting for my boys DiBiase and Shyster. I still hate Demolition.

With the "non-fan" question, I do wonder if there are whole swathes of people who just won't get invested regardless of the match just because it's pro wrestling. My wife just won't even watch more than 30 seconds of wrestling before she starts going on her iPhone and zoning out. It doesn't matter if it's Flair on there or anyone else, she's not interested, she'll never be interested. Lost cause. Same with football, same with any sport really. My dad is another one. It doesn't matter if it's Japanese, current WWE, 80s NWA, doesn't matter. His response in all cases will be the same. "You don't still watch this shit do you". And then, about two miinutes later, "You know none of this is real don't you". And maybe a minute or so after that "he never hit him then!" After which I'll turn it off. My mum will only ever refer to wrestling as "nonsense". And then say something like "nuts you are". I think there are people who you have to write off. "Will not enjoy wrestling under any circumstances".

Johnny, I was thinking more about not wanting Ric Flair to actually be killed in the ring.

Wrestling fandom goes post-modern.

If I had to go for a non-Bobby Heenan match, that one with the Gorilla from Mid-South, DiBiase and Borne vs. JYD and Mr. Olympia. It doesn't have blood so won't gross any one out. It's super-simple to understand. It has intrigue. It has a hot crowd. It has a super hero (JYD) and a super villain (Ted). It's the sort of match that you can point to and say "this is pro wrestling". Anyone who doesn't like it isn't my friend.

Does that mean we all sound like Chipmunks? I can't even imagine. Johnny is Alvin, Kelly is Simon, Shoe is Theodore and James is "Dave". Or, as much as I hate him*, I could be Alvin and Johnny can be every single other voice in the entire show. Still, triple speed?!! * I never liked the characters you were meant to like. Alvin in that. Michelangelo in Turtles (total douche!), Scrappy Doo. You name it, I took against them. I always liked to go for the "thinking-man's choice": Simon in Chipmunks, Donatello in the Turtles, Egon in Ghostbusters, Freddie in Scooby Doo, Tygara in Thundercats, Man-at-Arms in He-Man. And I often rooted for the villains.

When I think of universal in its broadest sense and the sort of match that would appeal and make sense to anyone, even non-fans, for some reason my mind goes to Bobby Heenan. So "a Bobby Heenan match" would be my answer. If we're talking strictly wrestling fans, then it's a really hard question. My answer would still probably be "a Bobby Heenan match".

At the moment, the best we can do is to direct you to this app: https://itunes.apple.com/en/app/soundcloud/id336353151?mt=8 and follow the account. RSS feeds aren't possible until we're accepted into their podcasting scheme, but all they've done is no-sell so far. Can't get a reply.

Only 40 mins in so far, but this is already my favourite of these shows to date. Loss's Hayes / Jake comparison is very apposite and the first time I've heard anyone draw that comparison. I like to imagine that Will and Charles would just be having this chat on the phone and we are listening in. Also, I'm kinda with you both on Gordy and think I've said it somewhere already. I had it in my mind that Will was really really high on Gordy, so this was surprising. EDIT: Actually forgot I was just listening and talked out loud during the Garvin / Flair stuff.

The dean of wrestling broadcasting, the Walter Cronkite of wrestling ...

Looking at Graham's site, it says first time won in a cage.

Brought this up with some friends yesterday and in a group of 7, I was the only one arguing the wrestler's case. Perception was that Tyson murders any pro wrestler including Lesnar. Was some fun fantasy booking Tyson vs Flair. I had Flair running away, Tully distracting the ref and Arn laying out Tyson with a chair.

I have that video. Always love how "under the radar" the commentary teams are on those tapes.