JerryvonKramer

Wrestling criticism will never be taken seriously if it allows for such egregious views as "Bobby Eaton is overrated" or "RVD is actually good" to be stated in the open without fear of reproach or ridicule. If we have reached that stage, something has gone very wrong. Well not on my watch, One-punch boy.

In the same thread as people are genuinely saying that Bobby Eaton is overrated and still somehow calling themselves wrestling fans, we are getting someone saying that they love RVD. When I look back on 2016 so far, I can only conclude that I am opposed to free speech.

Dory booked the foreign workers in AJPW for over a decade and was Giant Baba's point man for the NWA. I suspect his Japanese is better than Terry's.

The mat-based stuff bears at least some semblance to a real fight, and Saint was a short guy who did gymnastics combined with comedy. I didn't say I liked Saint, just that I find him more tolerable than most WoS. If I had to pick, I'd rather be annoyed than bored to tears. You're bored by something unless it annoys you? Does that awake you from your apathy? Snarkiness aside, mat-based stuff is probably less than one third of WoS. They do a lot of head tosses, counters, evasions, escapes, rolls and things of that nature. The limb work differs greatly from NJPW-style or US-60s style. Seems more centred on attacking joints to me, and very seldom do they lay in a hold. I think there is a heightened sense of trickery in WoS. However, I find the suggestion that it is "realistic" laughable. It isn't; as pro wrestling at its best never is. WoS just has a different absurd logic from the absurd logics found in US wrestling, Puro, and lesser forms such as Lucha or modern indie.

Not my posts, of course. But don't worry, I'm pretty sure the OP posts to several boards and picks and chooses which responses to use. Posters should have these opinions next to their name in their forum profile. It would save people a lot of time and energy whenever threads get gridlocked with opinions that are never going to change. Most of these reactions were a lot more relevant back in the early 2000s than they are now. The size of the pwo/dvdvr/WKO/VOW/PWP/etc type of fan is so varied now. Any consensus opinion isn't anywhere near the influence that it would have held back when all we had was RSPW/tOA/DVDVR or the small groups that grew out of them. also twitter, which has now developed its own unique smart-fan scene. a bunch of the people who registered here for GWE seem to just hang around there these days... Don't pretend even for half a second that this is a good thing.

Guys round here don't even know the meaning of having a controversial view. Here are some of mine: - Shinya Hashimoto is a two dimensional wrestler. - Yatsu carried Choshu in their tag team. - Dory Funk Jr's All Japan career was better than Masa Fuchi's. - Rick Rude's 1992 in WCW wasn't actually that good. - Ric Flair's WWF run in 91-93 is better than the entirety of Bret Hart's career before that point. - Hiro Hase was a better wrestler than Bret Hart. - 2 Cold Scorpio was basically a spot monkey. - Tiger Mask revisionism has gone so far that he's actually now very underrated. - Bob Backlund was a selfish wrestler. - Ole Anderson was a better promo than The Rock. - Sean Mooney was awesome, and the best C-team announcer and interview guy in wrestling history. - Tully Blanchard was a bad promo who stumbled over his words a lot. - Tully Blanchard worked too weak to the detriment of his matches. - The Fantastics were better than the Rock n Roll Express. - The Fantastics were better than the Rockers. - The early 90s in general were much better than the late 90s in both WCW and WWF. - The Attitude Era kinda sucked. - Everything DX ever did was embarrassing even at the time. - HHH's entrances from the past two Wrestlemanias are high art and belong in a gallery. - Wrestling TV was better when it was all jobber matches interspersed with interviews and angles. - Wrestling in the US hasn't been good since 1994. - Vince McMahon was a better lead commentator than Jim Ross, Gorilla Monsoon, Gordon Solie, and Tony Schiavone. - Lucha mostly sucks That'll do.

The most famous British wrestler was called "Shirley Crabtree".

Isn't the fact that only 0.3% of people are transgender a good enough reason to suggest you aren't doing harm to a child by calling her "Emily" or by calling him "Sean"?

I'm being purposely flippant (and not insinuating anything about you personally), but isn't the corollary to this that naming your child a gender specific name is damaging in and of itself? And if it is damaging, then shouldn't be take steps to restrict it? Also, how do we deal with unisex names that have gender-specific spellings? Do we choose one spelling and dump the other? Which one do we choose (and for my name, let's choose the masculine spelling as it is on all of my official documents and I don't want to deal with that headache)? Who curates the listing of acceptable names? Honestly, I don't disagree with the idea that we should choose our children's names with extreme care, as I am a firm believer that your name has a real and measurable impact on your life, but I don't see the value in choosing from a small subset of names over just talking to your child about how their identity is their own and letting them know they can always choose a different name if they feel like it. The data they analyse in Freakonomics does back up this bolded part. A name can have an impact, although more along class lines than gender lines in the cases they look at.

Just want to underline the point:

The problem with that area of analysis is that it only focuses on a minority fraction of the population. Basically, the "we have too much stuff and it controls is all" argument is something that only applies to rich people. Poor people (who do comprise the overwhelming numerical majority, even in America) don't have fancy custom furnishings in the first place to be defined by. They just have whatever was on sale at Walmart. When I think of bling hip-hop culture and so on, I'm not sure if I agree with that. For the rich it's a reality, for the poor it becomes aspirational. Either way, it's hollow. In many ways materialism is most marked when you look at the culture of the poor. In this country, the truly rich folk don't want to show anything off, it's seen as being in poor taste. It's all about the organic orange juice and charity trips to Africa, darling.

Yes, all of this. I guess where I've always struggled massively as an individual is that ... well, that's me, that's my life. I was born in 1982. I define myself by the things I spend my money on. I get excited for the new see-through blue light-up kettle I bought, as anyone who is a Facebook friend of mine will tell you. My childhood was all He-Man, WWF, Disney Home Videos, McDonalds, Coca-Cola, and Nintendo. I am a post-modern man. Perhaps it is self-loathing or the old cliche of yearning for a past that never was, but I've never been able fully to embrace it. As a little tid-bit, did you know that the He-Man cartoon was developed after the action figures with the express purpose of shifting more units? When they introduced new characters it was because Mattell told Filmation there was going to be X and Y character in the new line. Remember this dude: Only exists because of the toy. That's my childhood. That's me. It takes some time to come to terms with.

Some further reading, this is Fredric Jameson, "Postmodernism, or, the Cultural Logic of Late Capitalism": https://newleftreview.org/I/146/fredric-jameson-postmodernism-or-the-cultural-logic-of-late-capitalism My post above is a massively dumbed-down version of this. Note the date: 1984. Kind of interesting it was at that moment, the moment Loss points to, that he wrote this.

A 10,000-ft Marxist analysis might say something about capitalism moving into its final, consumerist phase: a phase we are still in. As the economies of the West shifted from traditional industry and manufacturing to being more service-based, the emphasis changed from the "means of production" (i.e. actual factories, coal mines, the labour force, etc.) to the product itself. Some have called this the fetishization of the product. People came to think of themselves less in terms of where they worked and what they did, and more in terms of what they own and the sort of things they were into. Not what you do, more what you spend your money and time on. Your choice of lampshade comes to define you as a person. It's pretty well summed by that opening spiel in Fight Club: You can see this process mirrored in wrestling, the rise and subsequent monopoly of the WWE etc. So much of the Hulkamania era is marked by its existance as a product, a merchandising enterprise, as opposed to what wrestling was about before that. I want to say that the more recent rise of entitled- and whiny- smark-crowds is the same phenomena at play at an even later stage of its development: ribald consumer culture manifest as a living crowd. That wrestling should struggle to find authenticity in this phase of capitalism is also far from unique to it. I mentioned Fight Club, think also of American Psycho or many of the other big texts of the past twenty years. So many of them are marked by the struggle to find something "true and real" in a plastic and increasingly inauthentic post-modern world. Which is not to say that my struggles with mid-00s ROH mirror Patrick Bateman or Ed Norton's character in Fight Club -- the analogy is too grandiose -- but in a way it is exactly the same thing.

Georgia 81 pics: Mongolian Stomper with Don Carson. Hayes with another ungodly great promo. The GOAT doing a suplex. DiBiase turning in the best acting performance of 1981. Don Carson with a bull rope. "Warriors ... come out to playeeee" Florida 87 pics: Keirn in front of the Scarface-tribute backdrop. Oddly emotional babyface promo from Sullivan. Terry Funk objects to not being allowed to wrestle with a branding iron in his hand. Johnny Ace with one of the worst promos ever committed to tape. Sheepherders vs. Cuban Assassins: proof that blood doesn't always make for a great brawl. Mike Graham, strangely looking like a mid-70s Marlon Brando. Bill Watts has the great Jack Brisco in a hammerlock. Terry with a batshit-mental promo as Dory holds on to a belt that isn't really his. Dory: always much more heelish in Forida. Million Dollar Dream! This man is not Chris Benoit. Did Steve Kerin follow the advice of his own hat?

I can tell you on the next Titans, Johnny. It's a more fitting environent!

It's a story that is probably not appropriate for The Military Industrial Suplex.

Now it is time for more randomness ... Florida Turnbuckle Memories, Volume 7! I feel like Florida is one of the more under explored territories vs. the amount of footage that seems to be available. Dusty is our host and this was for RF Video. Most of this stuff is from 1987 after CWF had been bought out by JCP. Today we are going to look at The Funks! Okay, well, maybe my selection wasn't as random as it appears, ha ha. Florida Championship Wrestling starts and our host is Steve Keirn. FCW and Jim Crockett Promotions have made a big merger, and Keirn is the new host. That was mistake number one that Crockett made by the way, not retaining the services of Gordon Solie who was so synonymous with that show. They made the same mistake when they acquired Georgia. I don't know what Crockett had against Solie. Kevin Sullivan is in an empty arena. For the first time in his life he's alone. And now he's at a low ebb he's reached out to the man he's hated more than anyone else: Bob Windham, Blackjack Mulligan. He says Mulligan is the Last American Hero. When they tagged, his two sons Barry and Kendell, and his son-in-law Mike Rotunda all said that they Mulligan shouldn't be hanging around with a guy like Sullivan. But he did what he felt was right, because he had a gut feeling. But now he's gone. He doesn't know if it was the Funk Brothers or the Sheepherders, but Mulligan is down and out. The Funks and the Sheepherders have joined forces. "I'll always hate you and you'll always hate me. I'm talking to you the big blonde, I hate your guts! I'll always hate you and you'll always hate me ... And it will never change. But he is the head of your family, DR, Blackjack Mulligan is the head of The family. So if you don't come for me, I don't give a damn. Mulligan's a fallen hero. Come now and dream for the Last American Hero". - Kevin Sullivan Wow. He almost had tears in his eyes as he was finishing that. Sullivan, another awesome promo guy who never really gets his due. And the conceit of the old heel rival wanting his arch nemesis back is some pretty powerful stuff. 1. Terry Funk vs. Mike Rotunda It's meant to be Tim Horner, but for some reason Rotunda has taken his place. Funk isn't happy and wants to bail. Funker has got his full cowboy gear on here, all leather chaps. Bails quickly and swings wildly. It's 1987. And although Dory seems to have the Florida belt in his possession, it seems like in the history books, the title was actually held up and he had basically just stolen the title. Rotunda is pretty spirited here, and Funk is in full on cartoon mode selling huge and doing the wobbly legs all over the place. As Rotunda gets Terry up for the airplane spin, Dory hits the ring and starts stomping on Rotunda. Neat little match around **1/2 Sullivan runs in for a save and beats on Terry, they brawl outside the ring as Rotunda takes care of Dory in it. Dory bails, but Rotunda follows him. Sullivan meanwhile beats Terry all over the studio. All four men in the ring. Dory has colour. The Funks bail. Dory was always a lot more heelish in Florida and the Funks in general were more dastardly in that territory, I think it goes back to the Brisco days: because Jack was such a huge babyface there, the Funks were huge heels there. And now ... Johnny Ace is on the beach with some women. Absolutely horrendous promo with zero charisma, acting talent or presence. Just woeful from Ace. 2. The Sheepherders vs. The Cuban Connection Ace is the flagbearer for the Sheepherders. Sierra gets very bloody pretty early here. Pretty soon after that all four guys have colour. Johnny Ace just flagrantly uses the flag outside throughout. Eventually, the Cuban Connection steal the flag and leave. Despite the double juice, this wasn't much of anything. Dusty comes through the crowd. He is wildly over. That's it, was just a bit of hype. 3. Mike Graham vs. Mr. X Just a squash match really. I'm not sure about Steve Keirn as a solo play-by-play guy. Graham goes over to talk to Keirn. Backdrop is Grady as hell, like that scene out of Scarface when he kills the crooked cop. Graham compares the backdrop to the Johnny Carson show. Back to Dusty presenting the DVD. And he's setting up Jack Brisco vs. Bill Watts as a great rivalry. He puts over both guys huge. 4. Jack Brisco vs. Bill Watts I've seen this match at least twice already, but always happy to watch it again. Watts is on commentary, of course and if you are reading this you need to stop doing so, go to YouTube and see if you can see this AT ONCE. Gary Hart is around. I've reviewed this in the Brisco Microscope thread. Watts gives an ABC lesson in how to be a heel commentating on his own match. Keirn introduces the Funks now. Here's an interview from them. Dory has the stolen belt. Terry speaks. He mentions the NWA, the AWA and the WWF. But there's a new one on the sun rise: F, F, and F ... Funk, Funk and Florida. "What's become of Blackjack Mulligan? Well he is what he was before: a chicken plucking chicken back in Sweetwater ,Texas. ... He is not a has been. I hate to inform you people that the old prune-face wrinkled up Black Jack Mulligan is what I have always said he was ... A never was!" - Terry Funk Funk's insane disgust at Mike Rotunda "the pretty boy" is mental, and the bit on Sullivan after that even more awesomely crazy. Slips in an "egg-suckin dog" too. "I don't care what the NWA, or the State Athletic Commission of Florida, says" - Dory Funk Jr I'm sure I've seen this promo before, but if you haven't, you must. Try doing some searches around Funks, 1987 and Florida. 5. Dory Funk Jr vs Jerry Grey Dory has his head taped after the cut he sustained before. Grey targets it, but gets submitted by the spinning toehold in short order. Dory once again more heelish in Florida than elsewhere. Flair hype video now. Just various clips of him looking awesome in his robe. 6. The Samurai Warriors vs. two fat jobbers The Warriors were managed by Hiro Matsuda. One of them looks an awful lot like Chris Benoit, who submits Bass with a cobra clutch. He isn't Benoit by the way. One of the jobbers is called "Bass" and is wearing the same gear as Outlaw Ron Bass, but he's not Ron Bass. I think his name is Sam Bass. Just a squash. 7. Kevin Sullivan vs. Jim Backlund Sullivan looked vicious here. Just another squash. Sullivan gets on the mic and calls out the Funks. It's kind of weird that Crockett continued booking these shows well into 1987, with a different crew. It's also weird that they used the Funks here and not on the main roster. Imagine The Funks vs. The Horsemen in 1987, talk about lost potential. Anyway, the promos are good, but not a lot is "must see" in terms of the matches here. Just see out the crazy Funks promo and the Brisco-Watts match.

That deal was made slightly worse by the fact that he was meant to be of Arabic decent and Davari was speaking Farsi. I can speak a bit of Farsi myself, and Davari's rants were quite amusing, but still, they hadn't moved on a single bit from Iron Sheik becoming Col Mustafa.

Do people think that Mr. Fuji pretending to be Japanese is comparable to blackface? Serious question.

Back to that Georgia disc now, and it's the Mongolian Stomper and his manager Don Carson with Solie talking over a match from the Omni between him and Dusty. Freebies now, March 29th is Michael Hayes's birthday. He's got the hair cream and says he's repulsed every time he sees JYD. "I mean you're a BOY. I BOooooooyyyt, capital B". Not much racially progressive about that. A chance to see some Bob Backlund in action now against Superstar Graham. It's the clip from when he won the belt they'd always show. 8. Mongolian Stomper vs. Steve O Stomper is the National Champ. Steve O was kind of like the Tom Zenk of his day, only he was better than Zenk. But a bland white meat babyface nonetheless. This was a pretty decent match, Stomper is aging and kind of awkward in spots, but his timing is good. And Steve O shows good fire. Don Carson gets himself involved for a typical fuck finish. This is in the *** range. Ole Anderson is with an interviewer, not Solie, I don't know him. That match with Dusty and Andre has happened. And, apparently, they were able to do a number on Andre. I really wish there was footage of that. Ole is just cool in these interviews. Such an underrated personality in the overall scheme of things. 9. Freebirds vs. JYD and Ted DiBiase Gordy and Roberts again. JYD has Another One Bites the Dust of course. Ted and Buddy to start. JYD is lean by his standards here. Still stacked, but at least he could move and do some stuff. Frequent tags in and out from the babyfaces. Snapmares by JYD, cranking head locks by DiBiase. Double atomic drop. Side Russian leg sweep by JYD. "Michael Hayes, becoming an absolute study in frustration" - Gordon Solie Babyfaces have guzzled up Roberts a good bit here. Even a tag to Gordy results in Ted blocking him and hitting a back suplex. Almost like the match is being worked double heel-in-peril. Freebirds have had very little offense in the match. JYD becomes the FIP and Gordy gives him a swinging neckbreaker. JYD is still kind of kept strong during this, little counters here and there, and a double collision clothesline. The Freedbirds kind of worked uber weak didn't they. Full scoop powerslam by Ted on Roberts. But then Hayes interferes and Gordy piledrives Ted on the concrete. He rolls back in. Piledriver by Gordy. Cover. Kickout! Piledriver! A fourth piledriver! Kickout! A fifth piledriver! Tommy Rich runs in and throws in the towel. Pier six. Ted is injured and this is one of the all-time great angles. Gordon Solie is just perfect during it. In the moment, "don't touch him! He's haemorrhaging!" We don't get the promo from the hospital here though, we cut to Solie with Mike Davies and Mr Wrestling II wearing a lovely little cardigan and a tie. We see footage of the Andersons, Gene and Ole, beating the holy crap out of Wrestling II. Steve Keirn and Steve O run in for the save. Now we get Steve O commentating over a tag with Keirn and him vs. Gene and Ole. Dusty comes out to keep an eye on Don Carson. He chases him off but then when Dusty isn't looking takes him out with a 2x4. Seems like those Omni crowds saw a lot of fuck finishes. Steve O has zero personality or charisma. Dusty has sent in a tape with words for Don Carson. He's pulled out the bull rope. "The pain, the blues, the agony" Dusty was a poet. Just a genius promo. Footage now of Steve O against Mongolian Stomper at the Omni. Dusty was injured so O came in to sub. He wins the national title against a shocked Stomper with the airplane spin. Shades of Dominic Denucci. 10. Ric Flair vs. A jobber Vertical suplex, figure four and it's over. But now a promo with the great man himself. Here, the number 1 contender for the world title "closely followed by Wildfire Tommy Rich". "Atlanta: you need Ric Flair Harley Race: you've gonna have Ric Flair. And that gold belt is going to end up around my waist!" Tommy Rich now, to talk about footage of him and JYD against the Freebirds. Rich calls Hayes a "sissy". Rich is also incredibly out of breath, for some reason. Really sweet suplex by Gordy on JYD. Picture perfect. Of course, they blind JYD again with the hair cream. Got to give it to the Dog, he sells it insanely well. They only got him in one eye properly though. And now we are going to see Ted DiBiase in hospital in one of the greatest pieces of method acting in the history of this great sport. Ted was 100% healthy but stayed in the hospital for three straight days to maintain kayfabe. He voice is cracked. The man should have had an Oscar for this, surely a better performance than Henry Fonda in the mostly forgotten On Golden Pond, which won that year. Probably the best bit of acting DiBiase would do until the Million Dollar Man skits. Freebirds in the studio and the crowd are chanting "sissy" at Hayes. "I'm a man, darn it, I'm a full-blooded man!" squawks Hayes. If you consider they had Dusty and Ole on the roster too, with JYD in on loan, GCW had so much charisma and star power in 1981. It's the same footage we saw with Rich, but now we are seeing it from Hayes's perspective, this is some Rashomon shit right here. "Georgia on my mind? The only thing on his mind is Buddy Roberts's boot on his head!" - Michael Hayes. There is actually no limit to how awesome Hayes is. "You see I tripped! I tripped! It was an accident! If he had never been there in the corner where he didn't belong ... He was the illegal man. It was an accident and I cannot be held responsible. I mean if he's stupid, he stupid, I ain't his parents or nothin'. I can't be held responsible to where he stands in the ring!" - Michael Hayes Just one of the all-time great heels, there's nothing else to say. I think if guys today could cut promos like this, they'd get heat. They either don't, can't or aren't allowed to, but this is what you need. Don Carson is with Solie now and he has to listen to Dusty cut a promo. He wants Carson to TESTIFY. Electric promotion. Yes, we don't get the matches in full, but when they promos are as great as they are, doesn't really matter. I'd seen some of this stuff before when we covered it on Titans, but it doesn't lose its impact.

They should let French guys just be themselves if they really want them to get heel heat.

Really well executed gut wrench suplex. Harley has a sweet one. Iron Sheik has a cool one too.

Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz-ReXs3xqY Say what you want about the gimmick, but that is fearless commitment to getting heat.

Have you ever seen the footage of Waldo Von Erich doing a Nazi salute at MSG? This was when he was coming in against Bruno, who of course grew up eating snow during WW2, but the match is against Strongbow. In terms of sheer outrageous ballsiness on the part of a heel, Waldo doing that in New York in 1975 is right up there. And it's really really interesting footage to watch. Waldo, of course, like so many guys who played someone of a different nationality, was Canadian, although his dad was German. He also wasn't really Fritz's brother.