JerryvonKramer

I hope Bret making Flair tap made Grimmas happy.

Every time I watch her, I think Charlotte is the only effective heel currently working in pro wrestling.

Fighting for the right to run RAW with Mr. McMahon to make the call ... glad to see wrestling has moved on so much in the past 15 years.

Yeah, sorry, much of this (as it pertains to me personally) is bollocks. I've spent my entire career challenging "the consensus view" in my discipline. On my two main podcasts: I've championed (on WTBBP) people like Ron Garvin and Lex Luger -- still derided in most corners of the fandom -- and (on Titans) I've spent hours looking at one of the most shit-on eras and promotions (WWF in the late 1970s and early 1980s) and championed completely not-talked-about-at-all people like Mr. Fuji, while trying to give an honest assessment of guys like Bob Backlund. I have a long thread reviewing dozens of matches of Dory Funk Jr -- a guy who a lot of the people on this board think is a synonym for "boring". Every single "contrarian" #1 contender I talked about in the essay was in my top 15. It's just completely not true that I dismiss niches, alternative voices and so on and so forth. A complete mischaracterisation. I just like to see balance and fairness. I don't think Jumbo needs to be knocked down to build Tenryu up. I don't think Flair needs to be pulled down to build Lawler up. I often think "revisionism goes too far". I'm moderate. Not conservative, but moderate. I'm done with GWE, but I wasn't going to let this slide. It's just not correct.

I don't want people to think I'm being aloof. This will be my final GWE-related post. Sorry you feel that way. Well, it's over now. Thanks I've seen a few people say they submitted ballots as a direct result of listening to the WTBBP countdown show. And a few others say that they were actually swayed by the five-part mini-series on Flair. A modicum of influence. But as I said, I think influence has limits. This was my aim. Just tried to summarise what was discussed. I wear my biases on my sleeve and most people around here know about them. No point pretending otherwise. Thanks. I don't disagree with much in this post. I wish we could have less loaded terms than "niche" and "contrarian". I would prefer neutral descriptive terms rather than ones that sound like a value judgement. I want it to be descriptive, not patronizing. If you took it as patronizing, I'm sorry. Yeah it is. I've actually known multiple people who actively call themselves that, and are proud of being hipsters. I put the word in scare quotes for a reason. It was both contexts at once really. Niche as in "lesser seen". The words "niche" and "mainstream" seemed to be used increasingly in the reveal reaction threads. But there is also the "explorer" aspect and the excitement of the discovered lost gem. I get that excitement by the way. I just never believed that it had much to do with GWE. Jim Breaks was a new discovery for a lot of people. It's more exciting to discover a worker like that than it is to think about a guy you've watched for 20 years. It shouldn't have a bearing on the rankings either way. I think it did, both ways. Two things: 1. No I'm not an "orthodox". I've spent my entire academic career railing against orthodoxy. However, I do look for balance and am often moderate in my positions. Revisionist praise sometimes goes too far (see "Akira Taue is better than Kobashi"), revisionist criticism sometimes gets overstated (see Dory Funk Jr, Shawn Michaels, etc.). 2. No. It was a 5,000-word essay. PTBN has long and strong links to this site. Many articles have been published and shared this way. What are you talking about here? Nonsense. There weren't any. I was talking about discourse not results. This is entirely irrelevent to the essay I wrote. The PWO-PTBN feed gets on average about 8,000 listens a week. 10,000 on a good week, 12+ on a great week. I have very detailed breakdowns of these stats if you want them. Every GWE show did over 1,000 plays. I have a Shakespeare podcast where shows routinely get in the region of 47 plays, I believe that these stats are real. Take a little look around. There are also people who joined these forums as a direct result of listening to these shows. I don't know why you said this to be honest. All of this stuff is not relevent to the essay I wrote here. This, I couldn't agree more. I hate the Twitter "culture". This is also not relevent to the essay. But, by the by, I largely agree with this. Most of the podcasters have in the region of 10,000+ posts on this board, so I don't really get this. The guys who did shows, by and large, were also the guys who posted the most during the project. What is all this stuff about podcasts? Some people listen, some don't. So what? Who's cares? It's more than a bit odd. This is clearly an exceptional case. It was a 5,000-word essay. I don't know if you can even make a post that is 5,000 words long. Sorry if anyone didn't like the fact that I posted this on PTBN rather than directly here. No. I summed up my thoughts about a 2-year project. This is a insulting post from you that makes me think "yeah, that guy isn't very nice". By the by, I do a lot of listening driving in my car and a little like funkdoc doing chores like cooking or the dishes. ----------------------- Right. It's over. Thank fuck.

In before funkdoc explains to us what reddit is.

Why don't the crowd boo Kevin Owens?

Some pics: Wrestling 2 here, doing what he usually does. Steve Keirn has a really awesome shoulder-breaker. Jim Duggan in a football helmet. The exceptionally short GCW ring as seen moments after Charlie Cook does the tiniest bump to the outside ever witnessed. Dusty, one of the all-time great promos. He cut them like an evangelical preacher. This made me wonder if Tommy Rich has ever seen D.A. Pennebaker's Ziggy Stardust documentary about the final Hammersmith gig. The visual reference is uncanny here. Tommy Rich: most Southern man ever born. THE classic version of the Freebirds. The usually-quiet Gene Anderson on the mic. Older than God here. Ole Anderson: in my view, as good a promo as the business has ever seen.

In years to come, people will look back on The New Day and think of them like we might think of Rikishi and Too Cool now.

Random Georgia. This is a disc picked at random from a Bob Barnett comp I have. Most of this is from early 1981 I think. 1. Kevin Sullivan vs. Steve O Steve O is the TV champ. "Man of 1000" holds Les Thronton joins Solie on commentary. He has a Manchester accent and sounds just like Davey Boy Smith. Why are so many of the British wrestlers from the North West I wonder? Pretty weird watching GCW with a British commentator. This was a pretty technically worked bout considering Sullivan was involved; it was giving Solie a hard on. Pretty competitive match for the TV and a title switch. 2. Andre vs Mongolian Stomper This is from The Omni. Pretty lively match between these two. Andre had his working boots on here. Manager Don Carson involved in the finish. 3. Les Thornton vs. Mr. Wrestling 2 Solie tells us that Wrestling 2 is 6lbs over the junior weight limit, so he can't challenge for Thornton's belt. Exceptionally dry match and the time runs out during it. Wrestling 2 does a headlock. 4. Freebirds (Gordy and Roberts) vs. Buck Robley and JYD This is JIP from the Omni with Hayes on commentary with Solie. This is the classic Freebirds vs. JYD blinding angle. They go to get Robley, but JYD tries to make a save and gets a face full of hair cream. I think they replayed the exact same feud in Mid-South later. A Dusty promo now. Starts: "Y'know, I've met some weasels in my time ..." The worst of all the weasels and stooges in his view is Don Carson! The sneakiest and most low-down of all the stooges! Solie interview with Kevin Sullivan now. He claims that the TV title is his "by Divine Right". Who does he think he is, James I? He also won a bodybuilding contest. Solie asks him to do a few poses. And he obliges. "That is what won me the best back Gordon." 5. Kevin Sullivan vs. Steve Keirn This was a really really tv good match. Great high spots, violent brawling. At least ***1/2 if not more and probably one of the best matches of Sullivan's career. Really came out of nowhere! 6. Charlie Cook vs. Jim Duggan This is pre-Mid-South Duggan. He wants to wear protective headgear. Cook is one of the main-stay GCW jobbers. Duggan is working this match with a football helmet on. Can't believe the ref is letting this go. GCW studio ring is very very close to the floor. Bump Cook takes to the outside for the count out is tiny. Another Dusty promo now after some Ole Anderson business. These duelling promos between Ole and Dusty are great! But who is Dusty's partner gonna be? It's Andre! Ole isn't happy. And now "On the Road Again" music video, with Tommy Rich. Personal promo from him voiced over footage of him in the locker room getting ready. Talks about him coming back to Georgia. The tone is of soul searching. Talks about the time he spent in Memphis. Clips from Memphis. Rich might be the most Southern man ever born. 7. The Freebirds vs Steve O and Steve Keirn Gordy and Roberts, Hayes outside. Buddy Roberts is still in quite good physical shape here, and this is the classic version of the Freebirds. Pretty good little match before Gordy tries to piledriver Keirn outside, but Tommy Rich runs in for the save. I thought Roberts looked very good in this match. Post-match we get a promo from Hayes with Freebirds playing in the background. Simply dynamite promo from Hayes, electricity in a bottle. Ole and Gene Anderson now. Gene is old as shit. Ole cuts another awesome promo. Gene talks too! If you've never heard him, he's like a Harley Race-style promo. Says the Wrecking Crew is like a well-oiled machine. Dusty and Andre can look out. If I was a betting man, I'd make Dusty and Andre firm favourites for this. Kevin Sullivan promo now. Tells a story about how his father told him to jump out of a tree into his arms and then pulled his arms away last minute. "Do you see, son: don't trust anybody". Clips back to a match with Keirn at the Omni. Great looking match in these clips. Keira's shoulder breakers look fantastic. This was from March 1st Omni show, 1981. I do like the old trope of heels looking over a loss at an arena show and explaining why they actually won or were screwed. Classic old-school psychology. Keirn comes back with his own promo now, and buries Sullivan's dad calling him a fool "in a long line of fools" for tricking his own son into falling out of a tree. Might as well watch Payback, and finish this disc off later.

So this is where the big boys play, huh

Looking at it dispassionately, it's hard to see how Pillman had a better career than Jericho. We've seen some very short peaks drop today -- Rude at the extreme end, but Pillman doesn't have that many more years. They both made my list though, Rude at #83 and Pillman at #96. Pillman lacking those signiture 4.75 or 5 star matches. Although he has a lot of quality in WCW.

The most charitable thing I can say about Jericho is that in many ways he's the Ted DiBiase of his generation. Which is basically massive praise coming from me. But, as the kids say, I feel "meh" about most of the era he worked in, and accordingly lukewarm on him in general. Also, back in the late 1990s, Jericho was never one of "my guys" really. I liked Angle and the Radicalz around that time. If Jericho had been around in the 1980s, he would have probably had a much more memorable career. As it is, he spent most of it coasting along having perfectly fine matches in bland environments to polite pops. I did not let my personal foibles affect my rankings. He is one of the best of the workers who worked in the New Boredom.

This guy

It's actually quite surprising how few guys score solidly in all 6 categories.

On what metrics did he get such a high BIGLAV score? 6 5 4 7 7 6 Just scored in the mid-range across the board.

What other big guys from the mid-90s are you going to stump for? Sid? Hugh Morrus? Are you going to tell us Mr. Hughes was better than the Big Boss Man? I'm just waiting to see what other scolding hot takes you hit us with next. The Yeti was underrated. Vinnie Vegas actually had some good TV matches. The Ultimate Solution was actually good, it's just that he was badly handled by WCW booking.

I just think El-P's cred is just shot to pieces with this latest episode putting Nash over Piper. Calling it like I see it.

I had Jericho on my list by the way and insanely high (#56). Talk about regret.

Yes and the irony of me calling Hase "like a Japanese Chris Jericho" a few months back. I was talking about utility and card positioning more than talent.

Uhhhh, how so? I wrote about this in main GWE thread earlier. If you still have questions, I'll answer there.

El-P thinks Shawn vs. Diesel is better than Piper vs. Valentine, okay ...

This has got to be a troll from El-P.

Accessible as in easy to get into or easy to find? Hase is probably the most accessible Japanese wrestler period.

Hase was a better wrestler than Jericho in basically every conceivable sense. I don't give Jericho a single thing he was better at.