JerryvonKramer

Nick Bockwinkel vs. Ricky Morton (7/2/82) Two out of three falls. No commentary. Awesome because you can hear guys in the crowd calling Heenan weasel and "Heenan you big sissy". I love watching wrestling like this, almost feel like you are there in the arena in a way. Bock is pretty imperious in the early going, and seems just mildly peeved about Morton having moments of offense. This mild annoyance starts turning to frustration. And then the bout erupts into more violence as it progresses. Each of the first two falls is really well built, with the fall coming somewhat against the run of play. Bock has some nice clubbing punches, and Morton shows good fire. What Bock does very well here is to give Morton a lot of credibility as a challenger while also ensuring he gets over the idea of himself as the maestro. Morton looked good on offense here, and Bock gives him quite a lot considering this is basically his version of Flair vs. Sam Houston. Bock is great at pulling out cheap desperation equalisers when they count. His selling of the leg in the third fall is also excellent. I love how Morton targets the injured leg. There's a scrappiness to Morton's work here, almost reminds me of Piper in a way. Finish is straight out of the Harley "banana peel" playbook. I really enjoyed this match. I thought it was a good showcase of what Bock could do against a young and talented babyface who was still making his name in the business. Bock plays the role differently from Harley or Flair. What is excellent about this match is the progression of his mindset, from complete arrogance and borderline contempt in the early going, to mild anger, to frustration, to desperation. By the end of the match you almost forget that Morton is not really on his level, and that's what being a travelling champ is about. But he never bitches or stooges for Morton like Harley might, and never comes across as the bully against a smaller guy as Flair might. It's a measured, mature performance from the consummate ring general. Strongly recommended. ****

I hated Hogan as a kid, I was a heel fan through and through and used to get up in arms about his constant bullshit and fucking biased Jack Tunney coming down on his side on every single decision. Jesse spoke to me and my concerns directly. Andre was screwed, twice. Ted was screwed, at least three times, and he STOLE his money. Savage was screwed. Hogan was a twat. That's still how I really feel deep down

I'd rather talk to anarchistxx about our shared love of Hase.

Hogan taking the Million Dollar Man's money and redistributing it to gamblers at Ceaser's Palace helped usher in the "Third Way" of the Clinton years. His support of Brutus Beefcake through his injuries, and indeed in general, demonstrated his commitment to welfare reform in practice.

As you say people knew what was coming and reacted in kind I'd say Hogans big pops towards the end was less about his work and more of a Pavlovian response does he really deserve credit for that as a worker? It shows that once the vast majority of the crowd got tired of it they turned on him so harshly it forced a heel turn if it was his skill as a sympathetic worker why couldn't he figure out a way to get the crowd behind him again? His case is made in AWA and 84-7. With 88-90 featuring strong work although also becoming more generic and complacent. If you want to talk about Pavlovian responses though I'd point you to the sound of shattering glass.

That's where transcendent charisma comes into play.

What Hogan could do better than the vast majority of babyface workers ever was generate sympathy in heel heat segments enough that fans could be genuinely invested for a comeback and finish they mostly knew was coming. Lawler will rightly be praised to the moon for that; but Hogan is right there with him for that specific skill.

I am interested to know if he's the most charismatic wrestling star ever in your eyes? Second only to Bruno. And it simply comes down to this: Hogan was a super hero, almost a god, who the fans worshipped, whereas Bruno was a working-class hero who the fans could relate to and who they would die for.

Hogan was so charismatic in the ring that he redefined what a wrestling star could be.

One more note on Hase is that it's fairly mind-blowing that he's on the front-bench in the current Japanese government.

For me Hase is low here. His case is both input and output, he has fantastic all-around skills, great charisma, and he's got the great matches and performances to his name. I also think he's one of the most laser-focused workers I've ever seen. He picks a bodypart and then goes to town on it. And, unlike Bob Backlund, Hase has the personality and imagination to vary his offense enough to keep those attacks on that specific bodypart interesting and engaging. To me -- a guy who is into really solid pro-wrestling wrestling fundamentals and the main-line of the US-Japanese history rather than various niches -- Hase embodies a close to perfect picture of what a pro wrestler can and should be. I continue to absolutely love the guy. My engagement with him before this project was limited to seeing him here and there, but he's definitely the guy I've come out of it loving the most. For people who are more like me -- who are into 80s NWA, old-school WWF, the territories and so on, and who like classic pro-wrestlers as epitomised by someone like an Arn Anderson -- Hase represents one of the most accessible entry points into Japanese wrestling that exists outside of All Japan. I also believe he's one of the few Japanese guys with so much charisma that he could have easily made it in the US if given the chance -- I don't think it's any coincidence that NJ would ALWAYS send him to the WCW supershows. He just had that "X Factor". Fucking awesome little moustache too.

Just thought I'd drop in my DJ remix homage to Rick Rude here: https://soundcloud.com/jerryvonkramer/dj-parv-feat-ravishing-rick-rude-sax-appeal Made me realise just how little variation there was in that promo he cut, but man it was a good one.

Perhaps it's the academic part of me, but I've always tried to consider a range of different views before drawing conclusions. The process is something like: - draw initial conclusions - consider the field of views - synthesise and figure out if I still stand by initial conclusions When this works at its best, I feel that's when the most enriching discussion has happened. I remember reviewing Stan Hansen vs. Kenta Kobashi (09/05/96) and going through OJ's criticisms of the match and then Childs's take, and it led to much more engaged criticism. Your opinions actually become more robust if you are forced to deal with counter-arguments and to think properly about what people are actually saying. I guess it's one reason why I prefer talking about matches than about workers, because some aspect of that critical process feels like it goes missing and the discourse feels much less intelligent as a result. Which is less a knock on the project or anyone posting here, and more, I think, in the nature of the difference between reviewing a match and making a case that wrestler X is an all-time great.

I think it's important to recognise that lots of people here did care about them, and that they have really helped to form our views on a lot of guys. As well as brought us together as fans. The 90s Yearbooks were too, but I personally missed the boat on them cos I couldn't keep pace. I realise you've been around since the 1990s, and see recent developments either as old hat or trifling matters, but you don't seem to recognise or respect the current make-up of the community.

With the DVDR 1980s sets coming out during the 10 years after 2006, there was ALWAYS going to be an increase in Flair discussion.

I do count those matches as positives for Ric. Ric will be WAY above Arn on my ballot. They aren't fighting for the same spot to me. That said I would take Arn in 92 over Flair in 91. or 92. or 93. or 94. I haven't thought enough about Rude's 89 to say how I would rate that in relation to Flair's 91, but I didn't even rate Rude. I guess I'm saying those years are in the same sort of ballpark as a best Arn year. Like sure, Arn's 92 might have been better or whatever, but it's same ball park. I'm actually a really big fan of the 1990 iteration of the Horsemen and we get more of Arn and Flair tagging that year. Plus there's this: Which I always mark for. Just KNOW it's coming. To move away from Flair, there is a question about grading on a curve. I tried not to grade on a curve. I didn't rate #1 guys differently from #60-70 type guys, just all against the same criteria around the same sort of levels. Did you think *differently* about the top 10 guys from the Arns of this world? Just seems like you might have from what you've said. And I can actually see a solid rationale for doing so, but worth talking about -- probably more than the specifics of a career that has been raked over to the point where most of us are tapping out.

I will review some Christian when I start watching stuff again. A promise. I don't hate or even dislike Christian. And always saw him as a strong hand. Was mainly banter with Matt.

Just to wrap up on it so Dylan doesn't think I'm being evasive: My impression is that around 90-1 WCW Flair is just plain burnt out. In the promos it feels like the light has gone out of his eyes. We know he was stressed heading up the booking committee and dealing with Jim Herd. Still has v. Good stuff with Luger, your boy Pillman, Eaton and others during that time-frame. If Arn Anderson had had those matches you'd count it as career-best sort of stuff, Flair's bar is just that much higher. So that's why I give him the early 90s Was 90-4 as good as 85-89? No, but how does it compare with Rick Rude's 89 which we'd typically give him or any given year for Arn? Hope you see where I'm coming from. Let me know so I can stop talking Ric.

The contrarian line is a cheapshot and you should own it if you mean it. Even when you praise Flair you are a contrarian now. The only acceptable stance is praise, worship, and complete devotion. Watching footage only matters if it is used in the service of Ric, drawing other conclusions, and discovering others who might be at his admittedly all time great level in a given year is a grave sin that must be dismissed as hipsterish trolling. That is my takeaway from interacting with you on Flair in this thread, even though I think I was actually very fair in my treatment of someone who I see as an all time great too. I am just done with discussing him. We've been over the peak boundaries so many times. If someone else had had his 1992 it would be held up as a banner year (factor in Tenryu match too). For Ric it's considered post-peak. If the question is do I think you, specifically, are a contrarian and wrestling hipster ... Of course I do. And I look forward to your stuff on 90s AJ. I am just so done with Flair as a topic. But being contrarian is all relative. Look at me on Taker or HBK or even Lawler.

I also have a question for guys who had Hansen at #1. I really think his best matches stand with anyone's, but do you see him as consistency guy in the week in, week out? One thing I do respect about Matt D's methods is that he won't bee-line to the best stuff; he'll stubbornly mire himself in the average stuff, the random stuff. Did make me wonder. I think most of the Hansen I've seen has been cherry pickings. I mean, there are a shit load of cherries, but it's still something I'd like to ask about. I had Hansen #7 btw

On Fujinami I really respect his level of consistency. But I guess I'm always looking for those five-star signature singles matches. Stuff to file alongside Misawa vs Kawada in the pantheon, y'know.

That wasn't aimed at anyone in particular btw, just burnt out on it. The main thing I want now is to be the high vote on Ted so I can have him as my avatar.

You know what I'm going to stick to the idea of never discussing Flair again, at least till GWE is over. If contrarians want to have their day in the sun, so be it. I can live with them having a different view.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Although I do think his 1980 was outstanding. What are the ***** Fujinami matches from 1980?

If you hold everyone to the standards of Flair's best ever years then only a handful of guys ever came close to being on that level. I wouldn't give Fujinami a single year at that level, and I think Fujinami has some outstanding years.