Negro Suave

Ok I usually don't even mention this but really that caused me to have to actually ruin a keyboard with a spittake

Missle Dropkick maybe... or even Jumping Bomb Angel style Drop kick, regular drop kick... nah it's seen too often.

If we were talking about great italian wrestlers I would include Chief Jay Strongbow as well... just as if you talk about Yokozuna you still call him Samoan even though he was booked as a japanese monster. The hairs do not need to be split.

What the fuck guys.... where did this converstation go wrong? Let me just lay something down here. is the Rock Black? Yes, is he Samoan, Yes. Neither of those are more important than the other, he is as much a black man as he is a samoan man and that is all there is to it. A lot of this is needlessly dissecting racial heritage to prove a point. As a lot of multiracial people will say is that they are both things neither are more important. And you know what? That is all that matters! There are far more multi racial people than a lot of people realize, and a lot of americans fondness for shouting out their heritage would learn as soon as they left the states that the countries of their homelands consider them Americans! Negro Suave isn't just a clever nickname it's a shout out to my puerto rican and dominican heritage. But please believe that no one there would ever mistake me as anything other than a black american. So how about we tone down the rhetoric to something a bit less sily and focus on WRESTLING performed by people WHO HAVE ANCESTRAL TIES TO AFRICA AND ITS INDEGINOUS PEOPLE and would by no means ever been mistaken as "Caucasian" and/or "White"

Froma wrestler's standpoint there is no such thing as a heel vs heel or a face vs face match. Either the face does something heelish or the heel does something faceish to get over. I've personally never liked them unless we are setting up for a heel face turn or vice versa, then it makes since. It's always seemed silly to me because it's build up for nothing you get these fans either cheering or booing someone and expect them to forget it a bit later why waste the opportunity to build something with that reaction.

Mariah Carey is black ? Well color me stunned. I agree it is silly, but it's still how people thinks. I personnally couldn't care less. Just thinking about something, Ahmed Johnson, if not for injuries (his and the ones he gave other workers) and egos, could easily have been the equivalent of Goldberg. He was over like hell at one point. Yeah Mariah is like a fourth. kind of the same level as Jeter. If ahmed had stayed healthy and really took to the WWE main event style. (and they got him a good manager while sending him to speech classes) he could have been a world champion. I know I was a huge fan of his before I became a smart. He had a great look... tiger driver is a visually dominating move and looking at some of his Japan work.. he could definately leave his feet.

The Rock is seen as a samoan. I know it's absurd anyway, since there's no such thing as race, but that's the way it is, he's really more seen as part of the samoan family than anything else. So anyway, WWE had to wait for the 2000's to have a black champion. I don't think Flair could have been what he's been if he had been black, sadly. Think you are splitting hairs with the racial division there. There may be some people that have an easier time accepting him as Samoan rather than black but this smacks of the "but not too black" division we see all too much. Tiger Woods, Halle Berry, Mariah Carey, The Rock, all not really black enough for some people but that's just silly.

This was my undestanding as well. I've also thought because of this there is no tradition that can be traced to the black community as far as this particular brand of entertainment. It really is one of the onlyforms of entertainment that doesn't have a strong black presence as far as america goes. And really that is as far as it goes, most other countries have their own tradition and africa goes by way of europe with not as many african wrestlers even.

Lower Middle of the pack. My buddy, Negro Suave at DVDVR was working on a black wrestler list for a comp and here is a list of guys he could think of off the top of his head... Butch Reed Ron Simmons Kamala Booker T The Rock The Gangstas Jazz Ahmed Johnson JYD D. Lo Brown Scorpio Abdullah the butcher Ernie Ladd Tony Atlas Godfather Big Daddy V Mark Henry Jay Lethal Shelton Benjamin Ron Killings Lashley Pope Monty Brown MVP Digging this topic back up because it is a pet project of mine That was a list off the top of my head and I am still working on refining it. Koko and SD are def included. Norman Smiley I think should also be included as well as Bobo Brazil. Problem with Bobo Brazil is that the stuff that is easy to find is very late in his career he looks like an old old man. As far as ranking them, I'd be hard pressed to put someone over The Rock but I would definately put Reed over Scorpio. Please feel free to keep adding to this as I am still trying to come up with a finalized list for this comp. Aja Kong, is one I hadn't considered.

That's the only thing great about Stan Lane, this spot is ridiculously good. Hmm, im going to try and work that in

For me personally, for a strike to be a credible finisher it has to be able to be hit near instantaneously and it has to be a visually large move. I'd buy the shotei more if Lyger would jump on someone for the flash pin. Or if he made that the follow through look huge. Not to say I didn't enjoy seeing Lyger pull that move out, but in comparison to the rest of his offense it didn't seem to fit.

Should I be worried if I am who you think I am or If I am not who I think I am. Or who I think I was? I'm confused now. Yes this is Justice, I really wanted to see Smokey Mountain especially the Gangstas run.

I'm gonna say Owen. Owen was always lynchpin for any team he was a part of and he was great at selling and bumping for everyone's offense. As a heel he was just the right amount of cocky to get himself in trouble while getting his opponent over.

Can I borrow these when you are done?

I always liked these when done well. I never had a problem with these as an analogue to the "sport" of professional wrestling. An own goal counts, why wouldn't a self pin?

No, the "Butch Reed is great" pimping went over my head based on his Mid-south work. I just don't see it at all. I know people who are pimping him don't refer to his late 80's, post mid-south days, although I also heard lot of "Doom is a great team" pimping over the years, and I never got that either. Ok I think Im more than a little bit responsible for this , as he is pretty much the cornerstone of the Black Wrestling History comp I've been working on for a while here. A lot of his work for me is more in how he communicates with the crowd and bring them into his match. He was a big power style wrestler who was really underrated on the Mic. His face turn on Devastation Inc was great. I honestly don't understand why more people don't see him as a great worker and a really capable hand. No one ever looked out of place or outclassed in the ring with him so It was easy to get into his matches.

Past your prime happens pretty much exactly when people stop believing that you can kick someone's ass in the ring. The moment as a fan where you think this guy looks too old to be in there, they are past their prime. This will obviously happen at different ages for different men and women, as aging takes everyone differently. But there really is a fine line between grizzled veteran and old guy holding on too long.