NintendoLogic

The first time I watched the 1985 Funk/Hansen match, I thought it was the best of their matches together. To make sure I wasn't crazy, I watched all three of their All Japan singles matches in succession, and I'm more convinced than ever. The brawling is more intense, the transitions are better, even the post-match brawl is better. I don't know why it's held in such relatively low esteem. I guess I just don't see the greatness in the other two matches that others seem to see. Also, I watched the bunkhouse match with Austin Idol. Really good stuff, even with the crap finish. It's a shame Hansen didn't stick around in Memphis, because it's probably the territory that was the best fit for him stylistically.

I'd say his best match was the King of Cable finals, with the 92 Bash right behind. I'd rate the Dome match with Misawa, the Clash matches with Dustin and Bulldog, and the G1 match with Mutoh as his best non-Sting matches. What do people think was his best WWF match? I think it might be the quasi-UWFi match with Shamrock. I need to rewatch Final Four and the six-man from International Incident.

If you're in Eufaula, Alabama, be sure to hit up Phil's BBQ. My uncle owns it.

I'm not at all a fan of ECW, but I think Heyman deserves credit for doing more with less than anyone I can think of. And you can't talk about Jarrett's success without mentioning the advantages he enjoyed that other promoters didn't.

When I posed the best offense question in the Vader thread, I deliberately left it open-ended to force people to make value judgments about what they considered most important. Splitting the question into a bunch of sub-categories kind of turns it into an exercise in stamp collecting, which is what I was trying to avoid.

How much financial success would Heyman have had if he was getting paid for TV and paid guys $25 a night (insert bounced check joke here)?

I would say Misawa had the most well-rounded offense. He had a good variety of strikes, power moves, flying attacks, and submissions.

Vader came up a few times in the Bret/Flair thread, so I think it's high time for a thread dedicated to this glorious bastard. He's someone I've always liked, but after watching a bunch of him lately, he's firmly established in my Fave Five. Here's a starting point for discussion: Vader has the best offense of all time. Agree or disagree? If not, who would you put above him?

No, Matt.

If you'e going to accuse someone of arguing in bad faith, you should at least have the courage to use your own words rather than hiding behind someone else's.

It seems to me that the Flair defenders are trying to have it both ways. If you try to critically examine how he works his matches, they accuse you of singling Flair out when plenty of other guys are guilty of the same things. But if you do liken him to someone else, they insist that what Flair does is totally different.

Cena's dad is a huge fan, yes. Cena was a fan for a time as a kid, but he had stopped watching by the time he was a teenager. His main loves were football and bodybuilding, but he wasn't good enough for the former or big enough for the latter. He was brought into the business after being spotted in a gym. I'm not saying he doesn't have passion for the business, but he's not some starry-eyed fan living out a boyhood dream. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, mind you.

Actually, Cena wasn't much of a fan growing up. Pro wrestling is something he was recruited into after he couldn't make it as a bodybuilder.

I don't understand the hangup over the term "bitch." I mean, "chickenshit" isn't exactly a term of endearment, but we use "chickenshit heel" in neutral or even laudatory terms all the time. As for what playing the bitch entails, it goes beyond selling and bumping big for your opponent. It's acting in a way that makes you come across as a coward or a buffoon.

Stiffness isn't something I seek out, but it's not something I have a problem with as long as guys aren't dumbasses about it. Stiff shots to safe areas like the chest and back are fine. Kicking someone in the head full-force is just stupid.

You mean the match where Flair destroys Luger's leg with a chair while JJ Dillon has the ref distracted and gets the pin with his feet on the ropes?

Back when I was a lurker and still trying to find myself as a wrestling fan, this thread was invaluable in helping me expand my wrestling horizons. I've been pondering the answers I would give for the categories goodhelmet suggested for a while now, and I've finally reached the point where I'm confident in my selections. Must see cage match Got to go with the 1992 WarGames. Must see high flyers match Eddy/Rey from Halloween Havoc. The 2005 Smackdown match is a better match, but Havoc has better high flying. Must see match with blood Hokuto/Kandori. Must see mat work Can't go wrong with Han/Tamura. 1/22/97 is their best match, so I'll go with that one. Volk Han is someone even people who aren't into matwork or shoot-style can appreciate. Must see gimmick match I'll go with the Cena/Umaga LMS match. It has the feel of a traditional pro wrestling match without sublimating the gimmick. I feel like most gimmick matches fail on either the first count or the second. Must see world title bout 6/3/94. Must see 1970s match Baba/Robinson, 7/24/76. Must see 1980s match Lawler/Dundee, 6/6/83. Kind of surprised that I'm the first one to mention it. Must see 1990s match Misawa/Kobashi, 1/20/97. Must see tag match 6/9/95. This is a pretty interesting topic, so I'd be interested in hearing the thoughts of the newer members. Oh, and I'm 31.

I recently saw Flair vs. Brett Sawyer from Portland (the October one) and thought it was blowaway great. It's also more ammunition for my argument that early 80s Flair was the best Flair. He's not stooging or taking shortcuts in this match, he's in full-on asskicker mode. He puts Sawyer over as a credible challenger while still making it clear that he's the world champion for a reason. It's the kind of match I wish he had wrestled more often. Flair fans and non-fans alike should check it out.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who can't stand that guy. If he really thought that Rock winning the title at the Rumble was an attempt to hit the reset button rather than something that had been planned for over a year, he's either clueless or deluded.

The other day, I was wondering if Zack Ryder has ever had a good match. I figured that if he did, it happened in WWECW, so thanks for this. The match was too short to leave much of an impression, but it was good while it lasted. For what it's worth, I don't think the Zack Attack is that terrible a finisher. It's better than a standard Overdrive, at least. Granted, that's an exceedingly low hurdle.

I deleted that comment because I thought it came across as more confrontational than I intended. It's really not something I feel like getting into an argument over.

Eh, I suppose not.

Wow. If you didn't think Okada/Tanahashi was any good, our tastes are even further apart than I thought.

After seeing a few matches for the first time and reappraising a few more, I bumped my list back up to 50. The thread title is no longer a lie! Also, some of you may have noticed some similarities between Childs' list and my own. That isn't an accident. His recommendations in both this thread and the matches you must see before you die thread were invaluable as guideposts for which matches to check out. I guess that makes us bros.

I mentioned the 70s because Loss said he had great matches that spanned three decades. The only 70s Hansen match I've seen in its entirety was with The Destroyer, which I thought was kind of meh. I haven't seen all of the cage match with Bruno, but what I did see looked pretty good.