Jmare007

When and why did the "New Japan should book women" argument start?

In my experience, 90% or more of the conversations I have about wrestling (online and in real life) are about WWE and mainstream US wrestling. The people I can talk about Misawa/Kawada are the same that would have no issue checking for Tamura if I asked about him or recommended to watch some of his matches. And that number has gotten bigger in the last few years as it gets easier and easier to go into deep dives into anything that interest people. I understand your larger point though. Specially because we now have wrestlers that try to cater to Dave's tastes to get a big rating, maybe more than ever. I guess I just struggle with the thought of Dave and his views being so important because besides this board, I've found way more people that either laugh about his ratings, don't take it so seriously or understand he just loves New Japan and the Young Bucks. This is an interesting point. Because even though it's true the last fall was as minimalistic (sp?) as a New Japan main event has been in the last 7 years or so, the first two falls, and specially the first one, had a TON of excess of moves and kickouts. The match probably isn't seen as the best ever without that initial dose of "tons of moves and nearfalls" that lasted longer than the simple finishing stretch it had. I guess it could be seen as the best of both worlds? I tuned out for most of the first two falls because it isn't what I like but I can totally understand were people are coming from with the praise the match got. Might be risking going off topic now, but I can't agree with this 100%. There were tons of moves but comparatively few pin attempts during the first two falls, mostly because they were selling the damage it took executing them on each other. On a quick rewatch I counted maybe 13 pin attempts with maybe half being what I'd call actual dramatic nearfalls, and that didn't seem too excessive in the context of trying to score the all important first fall. In the second fall I counted 3(!) pin attempts included the OWA for the fall. A lot more time was spent out of the ring, in the cobra clutch, both guys down etc.So it really built in a logically way where they were so almost too worn down to capitalize until one guy was completely dead. Good post, didn't feel like that at first watch.

Who seeks or understands wrestling this way? If someone is a fan of tag team wrestling and starts looking for Steiners or Road Warriors matches, will they NOT watch the Starrcade match "because it only got 3 stars from Meltzer" or they'll watch it anyway because they were curious enough to find the info they had a match against each other?

This is an interesting point. Because even though it's true the last fall was as minimalistic (sp?) as a New Japan main event has been in the last 7 years or so, the first two falls, and specially the first one, had a TON of excess of moves and kickouts. The match probably isn't seen as the best ever without that initial dose of "tons of moves and nearfalls" that lasted longer than the simple finishing stretch it had. I guess it could be seen as the best of both worlds? I tuned out for most of the first two falls because it isn't what I like but I can totally understand were people are coming from with the praise the match got.

I think there's a point in wrestling fandom when you invariably go away from the "paper record" and start either doing a version of your own or just create your own path of sorts. If 20 years from now, for some reason, Dave's ratings are still a starting point to other styles of wrestling besides mainstream WWE (I have a hard time believing that, but that's another topic) that new fan will probably buy into the idea that this current New Japan run as the greatest of all time by far and an evolution of wrestling, but if he's that much of a fan to go seek that info and matches, he'll more than likely end up looking for stuff himself and create his own opinion, at which point he'll evaluate if his initial opinion holds up or not. To me, the people that actually care about this kind of stuff - "how will the be seen/received in the future", "how will they perceive different eras" - have already reached that point of creating their own path and worry way too much about fans that will never care as much as they do and never will. Before this New Japan run, 90's All Japan was treated as the golden standard...by those who cared enough to seek it. A big number of them (the majority, maybe?) kept it as the golden standard after watching it, rewatching it and comparing it to other eras. Others challenged it. Same thing will happen years from now with New Japan. Whether they have 20 matches above 6 stars or they would've "broken the record" of 5 star matches (if the scale hadn't been broken) or they would've had the biggest number of high rated matches after 90's All Japan (if Dave wouldn't have loved it as much and throw so many snowflakes the last 7 years), I think it's irrelevant. The fans that care will eventually find context because they will do whatever they have to to find it, and those who don't will keep it moving and enjoy the wrestling the like without putting much thought to it, as they always have.

I'm still amazed that DG keeps working the numbers for their shows

You take stuff too seriously sometimes man

Who are those people and have they been living under a rock?

Punk himself referred to Cabana as his best friend in a couple of interviews after the case was over. The report about them having a "falling out" was almost two years ago though, I guess they could've patched things up a while ago. Now, the original rumor said it was because Cabana went backstage to a RAW show and took pictures with people. If Bix says that didn't happen, I wonder if they ever had a falling out in the first place.

That feels a little bit like "put the strap on Jinder before we go to India"-type thinking. Like they are worried that American NJPW fans might not care about a Main Event with a Japanese guy in it... Maybe, but then again, it's the biggest match they could book for a US audience without the need to use a title defense with a bigger name that would mean more to the japanese audience anyway. Tickets were moving slowly, and my guess is that they'll see a big spike after that main event being announced.

Interesting. Was the story about Punk being pissed at him because of it true though?

I do think Grimmas touched and interesting topic. Two or three years ago there was a ton of talk about the Okada vs Tanahashi series being the best ever and compared Flair vs Steamboat (and Kobashi/Misawa IIRC). Now we fast forward to today and even though that rivalry is still highly regarded, the talk around it is not nearly as great as just a couple of years ago. Now the "this generation's Flair vs Steamboat" talk has transferred to Okada vs Omega. Even Dave tweeted about it, and he was the main guy pushing the Okada/Tana series as "this generation's best". I guess it's something that comes with the territory in today's fandom, but it does ring hollow when there's a new "best all time" every year or couple of years. Specially when the previously praised stuff gets downgraded or forgotten so easily.

As always, Rusev wins with this whole controversy https://twitter.com/RusevBUL/status/1005660208847314944

I can't wait to the fuckery that will ensue once Dave goes 7 stars - I personally want him to go 6.75, that would be hilarious on so many levels - but I do hope we don't get discussion n°20 about Dave and his tastes in wrestling in here. At this point we all know the deal, no need to get worked up about it, just have fun as others are the ones losing their shit

I'm kinda shocked gordi liked it so much after not doing feeling the WK encounter. I thought this match was perfect for people that loved their previous matches but didn't do much for me - enjoyed them but never was close to buying the "best ever" talk -, though I did think it got better as it went along. The last fall was by far the best one, and even though they stretched it too damn much for my liking, I thought it was dope how the crowd became more and more desperate with Kenny's exhaustion, as they started to feel he might not pull this off. Also liked how they didn't fill it with a bunch of nearfalls (they over used those for the first two falls) and just let the fact that they were too tired to land shit properly build the drama. The match really felt like an anime fight, Kenny "losing consciousness" (or whatever you wanna call it) with his eyes going white after a Rainmaker included. I kinda felt most of the last fall was the "they are moving just by instinct" classic troupe you see in big epic anime fights. The G-1 match is still the best they've done, easily imo, but I can see this Dominion one getting as much praise, if not more, than their previous matches. It's just not meant for a fan like me to enjoy it as much, and that's fine. And the right guy won too.

At this point I think booing would be a "success" in the sense that the more they force Roman and the more they insist in the Brock matchup, the less the people care and react to him.

This sounds dope, I really hope people get on board with it.

Kinda surprised there's no thread about Punk's trial, there's some interesting tidbits from it. Then again, I'm too lazy to do it myself.

The money, the years and there's some tidbits in the article like Murdoch saying that they'll promote SD every day, that NBCU was embarrassed of wrestling and that FS1 will have a studio show dedicated to WWE.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/wrestling-rights-shakeup-fox-nabs-wwe-espn-signs-ufc-nbc-gets-raw-1115156 How long before Wrestlemania gets a monster deal and is off the Network?

I'd like them to actually build towards Almas vs Hardy and make it an important feud, instead of just making them wrestle out of nowhere. And Joe better win on Tuesday. He keeps cutting bad ass promos and has no relevant Ws to show for them.

It looks like he's actually injured Mike Johnson of PWInsiderElite.com commented on Big Cass' status with WWE. Here is what Johnson said courtesy of RingsideNews.com: "Nothing is working for Big Cass right now. He’s back on crutches. From what I understand he’s going to go check out to see if he needs ACL surgery again. If that’s the case, that is bad, bad news for him."

WWE will most likely get more money once you add the new RAW deal.

Wow, what did the big goof do now?

This is pretty important and I think deserving of quite a bit of credit. I haven't been a fan of much of the main roster creative over the last 18 months, but he built a model that grew to and could sustain business at this level while never letting creative fall to a point that it imperiled the business as a going concern. Agreed. He basically kept creating new sources of income so that when one fell off, it didn't hurt them massively. And then it reached a point were it's almost impossible for business to suffer much no matter how bad the booking/writing gets.