Jmare007

Add me to the group of people that always liked Shingo but the "house style" of Dragon Gate kept me from checking him out for most of his work there, as I was burned out by DG like a year before Shingo got his first Dream Gate run. Liked him in ROH, the DGUSA matches with Bryan and Davey (one of the few times were I loved ridiculous excess) and was thrilled to watch him in Big Japan and All Japan. I knew people would go crazy for him once he got to New Japan because he's too good not to impress. I was actually a little annoyed he debuted as a Junior because he had already worked heavyweights everywhere else, lol. So, uh, yeah @Alan4L we in here for some Dragon Gate recommendations. I'd love to see underdog, monster and heel Shingo in that setting.

Shit, how much new Andre since 2016 is there? point me in the right directions please!

Not like we can know this type of thing but finding out how convinced he is with the melodramatic self conscious epic "formula" that Michaels (and HHH? maybe?) as better type of match as the ones he was having before. Like, was Gargano more into the stuff he did as DIY and those first big singles matches or the ones he's had before? Are all of those just agents telling him how to work and him complying and it all depends on is his agent? I don't know, but it's such a big difference between matches that it's incredibly interesting to me. Specially with the way NXT is run.

I was about to say Funk as well.

Only "good faith" argument I could come up with is that they booking is aimed at "helping" the heel by making him get huge heat by beating the local guy. Of course, I don't think anything WWE does is in good faith anymore and even if that was the case it's still a massively dumb decision that they should know it's dumb because it has never worked: the heels never come out as bigger villains and the babyfaces of course don't get more popular not get any more momentum by being screwed.

He was my n°1 in 2016 but I was still shocked he ended up as high as n°4 in the final list (behind Hansen, Funk and Flair). He's the definitely "peak" case as it's hard to find a better 7 year —maybe 10 depending on how you view him— run from anyone He probably has the biggest drop in quality before and after said peak out of any of the n°1 contenders too. Shit, he probably has the most "negatives" out of that group too: longevity, versatility, quality of opponents. But that peak seems to be just too undeniable with too much great-all time stuff for enough people (myself included) to keep him at that level. I think he takes a Jumbo-like hit this time around but I was wrong in 2016 and might be again in 2026. Him and Funk are the only wrestlers I never get tired of watching their work and have no problem revisiting him (like I'll have with someone like Flair, for example) and it's gonna be a struggle to find people that I'll put above them. One of the main things I wanna do this time around is challenge my Misawa bias as much as I can. Last time I always went back to "but that peak is just untouchable", we'll see if that continues to be the case.

I agree with Matt on this one. I don't see it as a big knock on Steamboat but it is a potential tie breaker when comparing with other top tier, elite guys when it comes to ranking him. I guess the question is how much could he fall for such a small sample, I also agree that it can't be much...but it is something.

I do too but I do think they put some sort of ceiling in how high he can get in a ballot. Specially the HHH match as the one with Taker I thought it was a "good enough" Roman performance and it was Taker who just couldn't hang that night. Then again, he's gonna get so much opportunities from now till the vote (if he wants to keep working/stays healthy) that those WM main events might just end up being seen as outliers were he was too young to make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

Indeed someone who's final placing is no doubt going to piss off one portion of the voters, no matter where he ends ups. I think Omega is fine, for that reason I find him extremely overrated as he gets so much praise but I understand how and why he appeals to so much people. Don't think I'll be rating him because 1) Even though I've enjoyed a good number of his New Japan and DDT matches, it never warranted a GWE ballot in my view, and 2) I don't see myself doing the work and watching his AEW stuff, and I only saw like the first month of TV and two PPV matches of his. Which didn't change my opinion one bit but regardless of that, I'm just not gonna have enough of him to put him in. But who knows, he'll more than likely be back working in Japan in some capacity and if I check some matches there and come out impress with his stuff, maybe I'll check AEW.

Thanks for the recommendations!

Kind of a random thought but after listening to the GWE 2026 podcast I thought a good idea would be to make an episode with different people giving their approach to this project. Even though I completely agree with being inclusive and welcome as much new people as we can. I think even a bigger barrier to entry than having people looking or taking down to other is that hearing or reading "let's make a list of the 100 greatest wrestlers we have footage of" feels like an impossible task or something that "can't be done" because they feel they haven't watched "enough" wrestling or don't feel like addressing some gaps is possible. I know I tried to make a couple of folks participate in 2016 but just couldn't get them to submit a ballot because of that. Maybe hearing how different folks will tackle this, and others just being comfortable doing with that they already know + being open to watching anything that's pimped and sounds interesting to them, will also help this seems more approachable and fun.

Can someone do a list of 10 or so matches from Sugi since 2016? I've only seen a handful (with the one were he kills himself against Nakajima from 18' being the most memorable one). I've always liked him a lot and was one of the sole reasons I kept watching NOAH for a couple of years. Does he rely too much on excess? sure, but he's still fun to watch, specially because he has no reward for his well being and ends up having matches that are insane. I'll revisit him for sure and would like more current stuff too as I completely threw NOAH out of my watching habits a long ass time ago.

The Ronda nomination made think that nominating this two was worth it. Takuya Nomura Talk about a guy that "got it" as soon as he debuted, four months after his debut he's having fun matches in Big Japan and All Japan. Nomura is as close to a prodigy as you can get. The guy knows how to sell, show fire, strike and make a match more interesting with his work. Sure, he has the "advantage" of being a disrespectful punk, so him showing up against bigger and more established opponents was a novelty he had from the get go. But not everyone can pull that off as well as he does it. We are five years into his career and he has MOTYCs in singles and tags in at least 3 of them, and whole bunch of fun multi man tags, tag team and singles performances. His team with Fuminori Abe (Astronauts) is one of the best in the word. By the time we vote, we'll have a decade's worth of work and he'll most likely get a big singles run in one or two promotions so better start getting familiar with him now so we can evaluate him as worthy of making our ballots. Matches: Takuya Nomura vs Hideki Suzuki - BJW 6/20/2018 https://rutube.ru/video/222f24151d44575cc4999a23458a2f41/ Takuya Nomura vs Yuji Okabayashi - BJW 7/21/2019 https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7h0nna Takuya Nomura & Fuminori Abe vs Daisuke Sekimoto & Kohei Sato - BJW 8/10/2020 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlejQgSe6Qo Fuminori Abe Just like Takuya Nomura, I think it's best to get a nomination early because by the time we vote he's gonna have a decade worth of footage and as another young prodigy, he can end up making a case to get into some ballots. Abe is really small, but he has no issue working big. He can also be very flashy, very stiff and take a whole lot of punishment. He can pull off some incredible reversals and has done some really great stuff trying to keep the FUTEN/Battlearts aura around puroresu as well as more traditional work that is also top notch. Matches: Fuminori Abe vs Takuya Nomura - BJW 1/17/2018 https://rutube.ru/video/630a7005c6882e692f3454ef3b9d5f00/?pl_type=user&pl_id=1067514 Fuminori Abe vs Kohei Sato - Zero1 2/2/2019 https://rutube.ru/video/222df24ca517c074181f041ed553c4ff/ Fuminori Abe & Takuya Nomura vs Twin Towers - BJW 12/20/2020 https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7yhhr7

You didn't think even the match against Astronauts was at least "good"?

HHH started it with his reign of doom in 2003. Then Batista and Cena went back to face dominant runs. The 2010s was mostly heels running it though: Punk, Orton, AJ and of course, Brock. Considering there's no more PPVs to worry about and that ratings are what they are, this wouldn't be that big of deal if WWE wouldn't make it their mission to fuck over any babyface that gets any momentum. Oh well...

I think his case has gotten way stronger in the last 5 years. He basically made a switch and decided that in most singles matches he was going to slow the fuck down, work holds and make every move matter, and it has worked wonderfully with people like Hideki Suzuki, Ryota Hama, Yuji Hino and Kodaka (and most of his Strong Climb matches tbh). Of course he still has more traditional bangers like the ones against Kento Miyahara, Zeus (which caps a really good Champions Carnival run) and trying to kill each other with Kohei Sato. You add to that the fact that he remained an incredible tag team worker, to the point I think he is the best tag worker of this century. Sure, tag teams have been mostly shoved aside since the early 2000s, but I honestly think the only one that can rival Daisuke is Cesaro. His team with Okabayashi is basically the best tag team of the decade with The Young Bucks being their only competition (that's such an interesting conversation btw). I think a lot of the negatives @Jetlag made 7 years ago have been answered in the last 4 to 5 years, at least to warrant a second look.

Don't take this as a definitive list but I'll throw you some matches. Daisuke Sekimoto & Yuji Okabayashi vs Seiya Sanada & Manabu Soya - AJPW 3/21/11 This is Yuji in year 2 (well, three if we are being technical about it) of his career. It's a long match but it's impressive how they were able to take some of the excess these four had in a previous match and make it better. Daisuke Sekimoto & Yuji Okabayashi vs Manabu Soya & Ryota Hama - BJW 4/28/11 A heated inter promotional tag in Korakuen. You might come out of this more interested in Hama as I think he delivers the performance of his career but I think it worth to watch it for Yuji because it's a great match and they later have a singles match that makes you appreciate Yuji more. Daisuke Sekimoto, Shinobu & Yugi Okabayashi vs. Yoshihito Sasaki, Shinya Ishikawa & Ryuichi Kawakami - BJW 6/27/11 To be completely honest with you, I could recommend literally dozens of fun 6 man tags from Big Japan. I'll give you just a couple so you can get a taste, if you like them, tell me and I'll go all in with them. Yuji Okabayashi vs Yoshihito Sasaki - BJW 6/21/2012 I think this is Yuji's first big singles match in terms of quality, it does help Yoshihito is with him though. The last couple of minutes are ridiculous. Tatsuhito Takaiwa vs. Yuji Okabayashi - BJW 8/27/2013 Yuji Okabayashi, Hideyoshi Kamitani & Ryuichi Kawakami vs Daisuke Sekimoto, Kohei Sato & Shuji Ishikawa - BJW 5/22/2015 More 6 man goodness, this is trying to build up to an eventual match he would have with Sekimoto in Sumo Hall. Yuji Okabayashi, HARASHIMA & Yuji Hino vs. Daisuke Sekimoto, Masato Tanaka & Takashi Sugiura - BJW 6/30/2015 We keep build it up and now we had better wrestlers to the mix. Yuji Okabayashi vs Daisuke Sekimoto - 7/20/2015 I think this is the best match against each other, though it's not as good as it could've been. Yuji Okabayashi vs Ryota Hama - BJW 1/24/2016 Yuji gives Hama the best singles match in his career. Yuji Okabayashi vs Hideyoshi Kamitani - BJW 7/24/2016 Yuji gives young Kamitani to what this day still is the best singles match of his career. Yuji Okabayashi vs Daichi Hashimoto - BJW 4/9/17 Yuji gives young Hash the best singles match of his career up to that point. Yuji Okabayashi vs Hideki Suzuki - BJW 5/5/2017 Suzuki is fucking great but he has a big problem in that he not always is able to jell with his opponents, so his mat based stuff sometimes kills a match. Well, not here. This is a game of human chess between a technical master that was taught by Billy Robinson, and the brute force and fire that is Yuji fucking Okabayashi. Daisuke Sekimoto & Yuji Okabayashi vs Shuji Ishikawa & Suwama - BJW 1/13/2019 I'd think you could've seen this one already but if you haven't, please do. Yuji Okabayashi vs Shuji Ishikawa - AJPW Champions Carnival Day 1 4/4/19 Good example that even if he normally plays the monster, he can also be an underdog an deliver a pretty great match. Yuji Okabayashi vs Zeus - AJPW Champions Carnival 4/21/19 More than a hoss battle, this is basically a damn kaiju battle, so be advised. There's TON more stuff and I have no doubt Winged Eagle will bring the goods too with more matches. Hopefully he also includes the ones building up the Nomura match in 2019 that I'm too sleepy to search for the dates right now.

I agree that the "personal history" playing a part (or not) in how people rank wrestlers should be a entire different thread because I have no doubt there's gonna be a good number of participants like Grimmas that feel that way about a number of wrestlers. I'm not on that group at all, I tend to side with Phil on this one. To be honest, this business has been too fucked up for far too long to the point that I kinda expect almost everyone that works to have some "problematic" history in some form of fashion. But I understand that not everyone feels that way and that separating the art from the artist is not something everyone can do. In regards to Lawler, I think he might fall on my list because I'm not sure I'll be able to revisit him and "recency" bias might knocl him down a peg. Same might happen with a lot of territory dudes tbh.

To add to the "dominance" of pinning both guys at the same time. Roman survived the LeBell Lock, which he previously tapped to AND a Crossface + LeBell Lock combo. They made him look strong as hell AND keep heat on him with Jey's interference. Pretty damn good booking, for once.

@elliott@Quentin I get what you guys are saying but I don't think any wrestler on the planet has a "Jordan" case, at least I can say that confidently from 1988 to 2021 (I don't want to say before that because I'm mostly limited to territories and Japan before 88'). No matter what n°1 GWE contender you pick you will always end up in a "Duncan" case discussion because there's always a run from another wrestler from another promotion/country that can be put head to head against that n°1 contender. Specially in a setting like this one when we share and debate with so many different people whose tastes vary greatly. Like, to me, Bryan absolutely runs with BITW from 2006 to 2010 and I could make a case from 2012 to 2014, and from 2018 till now. But I can't say that shit with complete confidence because of course there's other wrestlers that you can make cases for each of those years too, the fact that Bryan still wins in my view doesn't make it a Jordan case. And neither should make it for any other wrestler too, imo. As for the question of when does Bryan becomes a wrestler always mentioned in BITW discussions by a big group of people, it's from 2006 till this day, I think.

WOW! I did not expect that kind of finish. I wanted Roman but I didn't see him getting to pin both guys (regardless of Jay's assist). Bring the Cesaro feud! Very good triple threat.

Jay Uso talking shit for like 2 straight minutes in the background was outstanding.

Edge winning this and the crowd is going to go nuts.

God damn brothers, this video package is up there with the best. I'm pumped as fuck.

What the fuck....