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Jerry Lawler vs Terry Funk: The Last Stand
Superstar Sleeze replied to cheapshot's topic in Pro Wrestling
JERRY CALHOUN REFFING! Total Mark Out! -
Yeah, your first point is so correct. I usually watch with my brother (he is at college now) and now incidentally my friend started watching wrestling at the beginning of 2014. So he came over and we were talking. He was like that was a pretty damn good show. In the back of mind, I was like thats because we talked straight through Rollins/Kane and Ryback/Owens. It definitely makes for a more fun product. I will leave watching kickass Tito Santana for myself to watch. I already stated Nikki Bella is fucking awesome. The only other thing I wanted to note was "Caucasian Kamala" and Bubba Ray following up with the belly slapping was the best thing in wrestling all year.
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Tito Santana vs "Outlaw" Ron Bass - WWF MSG 8/22/87 The first ten minutes of this is just a fantastic shitkicking by Tito Santana. If you want to see Tito in his element watch the beginning of this match and you will understand Tito works his matches. At the previous MSG show, Bass pulled a Bray Wyatt and randomly attacked Tito with his whip named Betsy. This is why Tito is so pissed off. This is one of the best shines I have ever seen. Tito just hammers right away as soon as he gets in the ring. Bass cant even get his jacket off. Bass ends up on the outside so Tito picks up a chair and smashes into his head. ARRIBA! There is an awesome standoff with Bass grabbing his whip and Tito picking up a chair. The crowd is loving all this and I am eating it right up. This is my first Ron Bass match and while he looks like a Stan Hansen ripoff he does not wrestle like a Stan Hansen ripoff, which is unfortunate because Stan Hansen vs Tito Santana sounds FUCKING AWESOME! Bass coming from the Florida/Mid-Atlantic territorities has a lot of Flair in him. Begging off and the press slam off the top. He is a very plain wrestler. He is perfectly adequate at everything, but does not bring anything unique to the table. His transition is to yank Tito by the tights who tumbles out to the floor. He uses objects outside well to punish Tito. I loved the crotching on the railing have not seen that in WWF before looked painful. Pretty standard heel offense at the time and worked a couple restholds. Tito had some nice hope spots. The big finish run saw Tito kick some ass before Bass kicked off a figure-4 attempt. Santana did nail a picture perfect Flying Burrito as the time limit expired. Santana wants five more minutes, but that pussy Bass will have none of it. Great Santana performance that made for an ultra heated match. A great WWF draw leave it to Tito to do seemingly the impossible. ****
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Randy "Macho Man" Savage vs Bret "Hitman" Hart - SNME 11/87 Unless I am forgetting some Rockers match, this is definitely my pick for best match in SNME history (Rockers/Busters match is close). Make no mistake about it, this is the Randy Savage show and one of the few times in his whole WWF career where Bret takes a backseat to someone in a match. As much as we can debate whether this is Bret's coming out party, this is definitively Savage's coming out party as the number two babyface in the company. Thus it is only logical that Savage is the star of the match, but that being said, there are very few heels at this point in time in the promotion that could have delivered the same performance as Bret did in this match. I think that is really when a match transcends into something special is when both wrestlers are crucial to the success of the match in such a way no other wrestler could take their place. To state in the converse fashion, neither wrestler feels like a generic, warm body to partake in the routine of someone else's match. Savage is not a fan of extended segmenting in his matches especially he likes short babyface shines when he is a babyface. What I like about this is that adds a sense of struggle in a way that most WWF matches lack. Bret is almost getting in "heel hope spots" during the shine just to spice things up. They establish Macho Man will have plenty of extracurriculars to concern himself early especially how the Honky Tonk Man and the Harts treated Elizabeth on the last SNME. This is also the first instance of the rather proliferate Bret bump off the apron onto the guardrail that I have noticed. One thing I love in my wrestling is urgency. Has there ever been a more urgent North American wrestler than Savage? I loved how he kicked Bret on the telegraphed back drop. He seemed so out of control. Savage crashes and burns on his double axe-handle to the guardrail. Bret delivers a piledriver that would make Bob Backlund proud before ramming his shoulder back into his post. Savage does a mini-control segment before being back dropped over the top rope and onto the floor. That was a crazy high bump. Thus begins Savage's Emmy campaign. If you have force me, I would say I prefer Savage' knee selling over Toshiaki Kawada's by a hair. Savage is just so excellent on fighting on one leg. Elizabeth helping Savage take off his boot is such a nice touch. Bret is in his element working over the leg and does a fantastic job. I don't think there was anyone on the WWF roster that could have pulled that role off and I don't think anyone could have sold as well as Savage. It was just a perfect confluence. They work this to such a fever pitch that crowd pops huge for Savage's desperation inside cradle off a bodyslam attempt to win. An excellent match that illustrates how the WWF style had the potential to deliver powerful stories even if they didn't always. I loved this match and I think it is a harbinger of Bret's future and a testament to what Savage could be as a babyface. Perfect TV match. ****1/4
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WWF Intercontinental Champion Randy Savage vs Ricky Steamboat - Wrestlemania III History beckons the Macho Man! One of the all-time great promos and singular lines in pro wrestling. I had forgotten that during the Steamboat promo that they do mention this is the Dragon's last shot, which is only further proof why the match was worked the way it was and the correct way to go about it. I always loved how they weaved in the George Steel story into this match. I love how Savage moves Liz away from Steele because of what happened at the last SNME where he kidnapped her. Well-played spot. The finish is just awesome with Steel saving Steamboat from the bell. It is too bad that Savage could not get himself to be hit with the bell a little bit more convincingly. Much like Hogan vs Andre, this match has been talked to death and I don't have a completely revolutionary fresh take, but I did enjoy this match more than I ever have in the past. The first time I watched this was probably about ten years ago and I hate to admit I was pretty underwhelmed. It just seemed like guys moving really fast, but without much substance to it. This match for me at least has gotten better with each subsequent watch and I really enjoyed it this time around. The Toronto match really helps put things into perspective. I highly recommend watching the Toronto match before this one to get the full experience. In fact, I would imagine if you go back and watch 2 or 3 of their 86 matches it would help even more. It is actually surprising how many spots are similar to Toronto but they work them in different fashions, but it is still organic. They even played off the Toronto finish with Savage reversing a O'Connor Roll, but this time Steamboat kicked out. I think there are times when Steamboat does show aggression that have been brushed over like the choke on Savage at the beginning and the aggression of his chops. Savage is a particularly nasty heel in this and in general that is his style. He takes shortcuts and uses nasty short strikes to keep his opponents at bay. The eye rake when Steamboat was unleashing all that karate popped me. I really loved his use of the high knee in this match. It was a well-delivered attack and it was always to the back. Great dick move. Around this time, he decks Steamboat in the midst of the skin the cat and Jesse delivers my all time favorite line "You have to get up pretty early in the morning to get one up on the Macho Man." This is a type of feud that I think could benefit wrestling more and that is the one-sided hate feud. Steamboat hates Savage and that's clearly evident. Savage does not actually hate Steamboat. He is lashing out in fear of losing the title. It makes sense for Savage to cheat like a muthafucka and go for a ton of pinfalls. Steamboat does actually work aggressive at times, but this is tempered by the fact that this maybe his last shot for the IC title. Do they move too fast in this match? Yes and no. I think this match is very influential on the current style used today. Pack in a ton of action and lots of nearfalls at the end = This Is Awesome chants. I think they move way too fast at the beginning. There are way too many momentum shifts and there is very little rhythm. it does not feel like a struggle. I would say around the high knees that match settles into a nice structure with Steamboat fighting underneath due to Savage's cheating. I actually dig the urgency of Steamboat's nearfalls. It is a really heightened sense of drama. I think during the finish the speed at which they were going was warranted and was a boon to the match. Overall, I thought they moved a bit too quickly early on, last half was wicked hot. It was downright revolutionary for the WWF at the time. Those nearfalls were wicked hot. You always think of the one after the karate chop near the ropes that gets a monster pop because everyone thought Steamboat had won. I also did not think there was one consistent thread through the entire match like a real cool overarching story. I am sticking the Toronto match ahead, but this is a badass match and very, very important in the history of wrestling for how it influenced the fans, wrestlers and the promotion. ****3/4
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This is Nikki Bella's world and I am just glad to be living in it! Another awesome match! I hope we get a Nikki/ Sasha or even better a Nikki/Becky feud
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Tito Santana vs Butch Reed - Primetime Wrestling 5/12/87 After the Savage feud and before being drafted into Strike Force, Santana was in a weird limbo as someone who still had some starpower, but was not going to be pushed anymore. They stuck him in a lot of interested, fun midcard matches that went to a draw. This resulted in matches with Butch Reed and Ron Bass, who at this point in their careers were not having great matches, but with them being heralded as hidden gems. I have not yet seen the Ron Bass (never seen a Ron Bass match actually). The Reed match was actually pretty damn good for what looked like a broken down Butch Reed. Kids don't go to Central States. You will not come out the same man. Reed seemed slow and worn out. He made up for his loss in energy with a lot of fun heel chicanery. Santana as always brought the fire. What was with The Natural gimmick? Why did Reed bleach his hair? Was this a play off something? A rib? The beginning of the match was just a series of payback spots by Tito. Everytime Reed tried to cheat, Tito responded with a punch and falling to the outside. On the third time, Slick realized Reed needed something to break the pattern and gave Reed a foreign object. Jesse The Body loved giving DeGeorge a hard time. Reed plays hide the object from the ref. Bruno asking why Reed's fist is closed and Jesse retorting Tito hand has been closed this whole match was hilarious! Tito stomping Reed's hand also led to a funny exchange with Bruno saying it is ok with the flat of the boot. On a ref break, Reed clobbered him with object. There needed to be more Jesse/Bruno commentary. Reed goes for choking offense and this leads to a Tito chant in Anaheim. I am so glad got one more run in Strike Force, he had plenty left to give. I am really looking forward to rewatching Strike Force vs Islanders feud for Tag Teams Back Again. Tito starts firing up with rights, but Reed yanked him out of the ring by the tights to stymie Tito. Santana selling like a champ outside the ring. Reed bashes his head into the post while Slick distracts the ref. Well-orchestrated! I like Bruno chastising Jesse for calling that clever when it was illegal. I love a strong babyface voice on commentary, we need more of that. Reed chinlock. If it was a Reed headlock, I would believe it to be a match ender. Tito tries to get running, but Butch hits a big high knee. I like the high knee as a cutoff, always one of HHH's better spots. Rollins using that instead of Sling Blade would be cool. PILEDRIVER! Bruno is totally baffled that Tito kicked out of the piledriver. Santana drives Reed into the turnbuckles to stave off the next piledriver. Reed calls upon Mid-South buddy DiBiase for the punch in gut and somersault spot. Huge reaction for Santana clobbering Reed! i love Tito! Figure-4! Reed made the ropes, damn! Quick uppercut by Reed and the match goes to a draw. Weird that Reed was on top for the draw, expected it to be during the figure-4. FLYING BURRITO!!! There we go send those fans home happy. Good Tito performance featured quality selling and his trademark fire. Reed was a shell of himself, but had enough tricks up his sleeve to keep it fun. ***1/2
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WWF World Heavyweight Champion Hulk Hogan vs Andre The Giant - Wrestlemania III My favorite running gag of Titans was Parv always asking after every Hogan/Andre 1980 match how it compared to Wrestlemania III and finally Pete got wise and watched it. It always got a laugh out of me. I don't really have a new take on this match. I sit right where pretty much everybody who has watched this match. It feels enormous, but it is not a good match. I really wanted to be able to construct an argument for it, but it is not there. It is amazing Andre competed for another three year after this because he looked to be in a lot of pain. I did really like Hogan's selling in this and the general back psychology that resulted from him trying for the bodyslam too early. That bearhug was just long and what followed was pretty lame. Detroit just loved Hulkamania. Hulk Hogan was just so perfect for the 1980s America. The clothesline that knocked Andre off his feet got a huge pop and that bodyslam was awesome. A great spectacle, but too late in Andre's career for a great match.
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Anything with Fujita Jr Hayato is pretty badass. Matches with Sasuke, Yoshitune, and Ken Ou I can recommend that took place in M-Pro
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WWF Intercontinental Champion Randy Savage vs Ricky Steamboat - WWF, Toronto 2/15/87 I could have sworn I had seen this match before, but I don't think I have. What a tremendous match! Perhaps even better than the Mania match, which I need to rewatch now. Steamboat made his return at the January Saturday's Night Main Event during Savage and Steele's match. I really enjoyed the Savage vs Steele feud and SNME matches. The turnbuckle stuffing spot is pretty funny. It was the perfect feud to put even more heat on Savage, but it was all to really get that heat on Savage for the Steamer. After crushing having larynx crushed and needing to re-learn how to talk, many have criticized the Mania for the lack of violence and hatred from Steamboat. Around the horn in the Northeast loop (Boston, Philly, NYC and Toronto) for two shows in each city they saw Steamboat win or lose by DQ and not win the title. This explains the cleaness and neatness of the Mania match as Steamboat had gotten his licks in and now was coming from the title. Besides a single pinfall cover by Ricky which I think was out of force of habit. Steamboat focused on using his energy and technique to set up his chops and this maybe the most violent Steamboat ever looked. Savage was great at selling the discombobulation and tries to head for the hills, but Steamboat chucks him back in. Again, Macho Man powders and this time with some cat and mouse game Savage nails The Dragon and throws him over the top. Savage sells well, but once recuperated he sends Steamboat into the railing. Big bodyslam by Macho man on the floor. I like how this match has more selling and more drama. Savage is matching violence with Steamboat. The big spots on the floor is allowing more time to breathe. Finally, Savage lays Steamboat across the top rope and drills that throat with an elbow. I think if we got some choking and coughing from Steamboat that would have sealed the deal as this being a tippy top great match. Still Savage is coming off the top with the double axe handle and now a kneedrop to throat. Camera is not letting us see if he is choking or coughing. Classic Savage clothesline stymies a Steamboat rally. Savage is here to preserve his title reign so it makes more sense for him to go for all these covers. Steamboat is draped throat first across the middle rope and Savage looks to really hurt him by crushing with all his weight, but Steamboat moves! Love that spot! There was so much drama if he would or would not move. Somehow, Savage has a minor cut on his forehead, but dont know how.Steamboat does the skin the cat spot, but Savage dont play that and he just clobbers him with a clothesine. Savage looks to hit the double axehandle on the railing, but gets a punch in the stomach. Steamboat uses speed and armdrags and then chokes the hell out of Savage. I love how Steamboat is using his normal offense to create opportunities for violence. Now, it is a larynx for a larynx as he snaps Savage's throat against the top rope. Steamboat mocks Savage's throat selling. he drops Savage on the top rope. How does a taste of your own medicine feel! Savage powders and tries to send him in teh railing, but it is the Macho Man that tastes the steel. Savage with that awesome tippsy selling right into a Steamboat big karate shot from the top. Catapult and now Savage is busted wide open. The way Savage's body conforms to the turnbuckles on that spot was awesome. Savage is straight money in this match. He is selling so well! he always trying to escape, but he is so disoriented that he cant escape the Dragon. Savage has enough wherewithal to grab the tights to send him out. Savage drills from behind on the ramp with a high knee. Great use of the ramp! Steamboat chants and he is pissed! He goes for the sunset flip and only gets two and now they do the Mania match finish with a ton of nearfalls for Steamboat. It is the O'Connor Roll that does him as Savage is able to reverse and pull tights. Awesome match! Savage is covered in blood with the championship, but Steamer is so pissed he runs down the ramp and blasts him. I think you can see the change in Steamboat within this match. Up until the end, he wants to get his licks in first with chops then targeting the larynx and finally busting Savage wide open. Eventually after all this payback, he does want to add on top of that taking the championship away from Savage thus why he goes for the pinfall barrage. The pinfall barrage plays right into Steamboat's wheelhouse of quickness. The object of wrestling is put your man down for three the more attempts you make that better chance you have of getting that win. I think this match and the other matches in Northeast showed Ricky he could get his revenge or he could get the championship, but not both. After two months of kicking ass, he set out to win the title at Mania. Savage's performance in this is just tremendous. I think above all his selling was just perfect. He was discombobulated from the being and that just sold how much fire Steamboat had. When he was on top, he slowed it down and really targeted the neck. The cheap win with the tights covered in blood and leaving with the title is just a great heel ending. One of the best matches in 80s WWF and one of the all-time classics. ****3/4
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WWF Intercontinental Champion Ricky Steamboat vs Honky Tonk Man - WWF 6/2/87 It feels like a pretty routine title defense for Steamboat that worked in most of his familiar spots and he was working with great energy. Honky was bumping for him and besides a short heat segment really did not do much. He teased Shake Rattle Roll and then Steamboat came off with a BIG off the top, in a conventional match it would have been over. The finish was strange. Jimmy Hart distracted the ref, but Steamer dispatched of both, but when he went for the pin, Honky kinds but not really got on top and the ref did not break his count. It was a weird finish and not one that really protected Steamer when you could have used the manager. Thus began the reign of the Greatest IC Champion who ever lived.
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Tito Santana vs Jake The Snake Roberts - WWF Houston 11/26/86 Tito is one of my all-time favorite WWF workers. He always wrestles with such vim and vigor. Jake the Snake is a wrestler that I have never really thought was all the great. Everytime, I see him, I thought 1 or 2 spots would be interesting, but the rest of the match would be dreadfully dull. I would say this more of a Jake the Snake match than a Tito match, but because Tito is involved one of the better Jake matches I have seen. First off, Jake or should I say the DDT was way more over than Tito. It was clear they would have to turn him babyface and by Wrestlemania III that would be the case. I actually dont know the babyface turn angle. Then pretty much the rest of his WWF run up until the Savage program in 91 he played the number three babyface on the roster. The match started with Jake yanking Tito off him by the hair when Tito went for holds and then goading him to punch him right in the kisser. Eventually, Tito had enough and when Roberts turned around he laid one on him. Jake did a great job selling these and it was some setup/payoff that they could use in the early part of today's matches. Santana hit the Flying Burrito early, but Jake rolled towards the ropes and was able to get the ropes. Nice way to protect a finish. Then match got kinda dull. Tito worked a headlock/chinlock until the jawbreaker. Jake hit an inverted atomic drop and then really teed off on Tito. Jake is definitely not a guy with a lot of energy or movement, which might be why I find him inaccessible/ With more watching, I may get him more. Jake goads him again and Tito smashes him in the face. They crack heads and Jake throws him to the outside. Jake plays a little King of the Mountain. Jake hits his trademark short arm clothesline and signals for DDT. Jake works with the chinlock and ropes. Tito makes his big punching comeback. Jake teases the DDT, but ends up in the Figure-4 as the time limit expires. Disappointing Tito match in the sense that since his offense was not going to take the majority of the match, I did not think his selling carried the match. I think Jake would have been great in Memphis against Lawler. It was a good match, but nothing that could get to the next level. ***
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WWF World Heavyweight Champion Hulk Hogan vs Kamala - MSG 1/19/87 No DQ One of my all-time favorite Hulk Hogan matches and maybe his best match of the 80s against a monster heel. After watching a couple Kamala matches for Tag Teams Back Again (on the Place To Be Nation!), I thought he was fantastic at committing to his character, timing his bumps and working larger than life. I went back to watch this match and it is a doozy! I love Kamala's entrance with the mask and Kim Chee and The Wizard. Hogan in war paint is always bitchin. Kamala jumpstarts the match and whips Hogan like the dog he is with the belt. Hogan fires back and smashes the belt upside Kamala's head. The MSG crowd is molten hot for this match. I need to check out the matches leading up to this. Hogan gets distracted beating up on the Wizard and ends being felled by Kamala's biggest weapon his overhand chop. Kamala busting out the heavy artillery with headbutts and a nice side kick. I love the Kamala splash, he really leaps into it. He only gets two! Imagine Kamala as the World Champion that would have been badass. Kamala tries to go up top, but misses and then misses again. Here comes the Hulkster! Hogan choking with the tape and generally kicking ass. Big bodyslam gets a huge pop! Kamala only goes down when he needs to maximize these pops. Hogan misses the elbow. Kamala bites the injured arm. Staying true to the cannibal gimmick AND using psychology. I marked out hard for that. Hogan throws powder in the face of Kamala. Punches Wizard in the head to get the magical horn, rams that into Kamala's head and hits the leg drop for the 1-2-3. It is not Cena vs Umaga, but it is tons of fun! ****1/4
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WWF World Heavyweight Champion Hulk Hogan vs Mr. Wonderful Paul Orndorff - SNME 1/3/87 Steel Cage The awesome movie, Bridge of Spies, can be summed up by these lyrics, "I am a Real American, fight for the rights of every man!" I loved Mr. Wonderful's gimmick of stealing the Hulkster's music. It plays into the false finish of them both touching at the same time because they cue up the music, but that's the theme of the both men so it only adds to the confusion. The match is itself is pretty good, but I have seen plenty better better Hogan performances in terms of just unbridled energy. Still Hogan in the late 80s is just so entertaining. Orndorff probably would rank in the lower tier of Hogan opponents in my opinion he just does not bring much to the table. You had your monsters like Andre, Bundy and Kamala etc...that are staples of Hogan's run. You have the offense and bumping powerhouses like Savage and Harley. Orndorff does not have a cool gimmick to fall back on, but he is good at everything just not great. I like the beginning with Hogan ripping his shirt on top of the cage, very cool visual. Orndorff jumps him and whips him with the belt, which is probably the best spot of the match. Another cool spot was when Hogan stopped Wonderful from going over the top and bashed his head into the cage. It was standard cage fare until the false finish with both men touching the floor simultaneously and Danny Davis calling Orndorff the winner. This furthers the big Danny Davis, crooked ref story, Orndorff hits a knee from behind that wipes out Hogan and Davis. Joey Marella restarts the match. Hogan does a great extended comeback complete with cage shots and a backbreaker! A trickle of blood and McMahon says this is the first cage match on network TV in history, getting violent! The Brain comes in to buy Orndorff some time and takes a wicked bump into the cage. Hogan wins by going over the top. A good entertaining match, but nothing in Hogan's top tier. ***
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So over at Online Onslaught Forums in like 2012 they did a big 1024 elimination style bracket to crown the greatest wrestler ever. I thought it may be interesting to post and see if people care. Since it was elimination style, it is broken up into tiers based on what round they go to. Obviously dont agree with most choices and the point is to be elitist and say this list is wrong, but just to show who a WWF/WCW/ECW centric hans thinks the greatest wrestlers are. This is not here to deride. But i could not help myself towards the bottom. 1. Shawn Michaels - Confirms what people think. 2. Randy SAVAGE Tier 1 (Top 4) Ric Flair Steve Austin Tier 2 (Top 8) Kurt Angle CM Punk Eddie Guerrero Chris Jericho Tier 3 (Sweet 16) Jake The Snake - What??? Just seems weirdly high to me. John Cena - That's a unexpected, but happy surprise Bret Hart Ricky Steamboat Edge The Rock Mick Foley Undertaker Tier 4 (Top 32) - First Non-American Candidates Andre Vader Triple H Bryan Danielson/Daniel Bryan Dusty Rhodes Hulk Hogan DDP - YES! YES! YES! Jushin Liger Mr. Perfect Rick Rude Arn Anderson Dolph Ziggler - Holy Shit! I am in shock. El Santo - How much footage do we even have? Another shocker AJ Styles - They do have good taste! Great Muta Roddy Piper Tier 5 (Top 64) Sting Jerry Lawler - Not bad! Austin Aries - An interesting pick. I should watch some stuff Chris Benoit Big Show Rey Mysterio - Wow! Way lower than I expected. Brock Lesnar Kevin Nash - Wow! Ron Simmons - Whats happening? Rhino - Ok, this is getting too weird not to comment? Kane - Oh Lord. Misawa - All Japan, finally! Raven - Yep this is funny now. RVD Tully Blanchard Ted DiBiase Harley Race Dr. Death - Pretty high, given the audience. Samoa Joe Bigelow Syxx/Kid/X-Pac - I dig that pick Scott Hall Dustin Rhodes Scott Steiner Tajiri Yokozuna Rick Martel James Storm Booker T British Bulldog Taz - He beat Kenta Kobashi in the previous round, part of me died. Taz maybe in my bottom 20 wrestlers of all time and Kobashi may be my number one. That's why I highlight it. Brian Pillman
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I think the Butch Reed/Dick Murdoch were fantastic and would make my Top 100 Greatest Matches of all time. I thought the 12/83 tag was great, but not OMG GREAT~! I have not seen the Flair matches, but of course will. It seems like most his case rests on these matches. It seems too sparse and I did not think he was as blowaway great as a babyface as Duggan has been. Guess, I am saying I am not connecting as well with him and think his resume is a bit thin. I do want to watch Reed vs Tito from WWF. I have seen the Doom classics and they are good to great. I don't think he is making the cut.
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Rising: Lawler - After watching the Bigelow match, I finally totally get the hype. Took me a while to get into my groove with him. Went from what's the big deal to an easy Top 20 candidate. Dick Murdoch - Through the fucking roof up. From knowing next to nothing, to being a huge fan. No feeling out process. Love at first sight. Murdoch understands that wrestling can be fun and serious without each undercutting the other. Top 50 candidate and I still have New Japan to watch! Duggan - Incredible, blue collar everyman babyface in Mid-South. The heir to Bruno. Two ***** classics in my opinion. He will make the bottom 10 of my list when before I didn't know if he would make my top 500. Kerry & Kevin Von Erich - This was not so much as rising as confirming my belief they were top 100 wrestlers, which used to be based on a handful matches and now based on a lot more. Kerry is so charismatic and Kevin is the king of struggle in matches. He really believe in the "think shoot, but work" mentality. Shawn Michaels - Rockers work is excellent, but hold the phone he has been producing in the 2000s when others have claimed weak offense. He went toe to toe with Benoit in 2004 and controlled most of the match in very convincing and stiff fashion. Add in that I have never been as down on his 90s singles work. Don't count the Heartbreak Kid out of this one, folks, he may make late run very high on my ballot. Plenty of matches to go. DDP - The dude knew how to lay out a barnburner. I forgot about him when discussing Northern style everymen characters. Loved the Die Hard gimmick. Perfect way to update Bruno into the sarcastic, caustic 90s. The Goldberg, Sting and Benoit matches are absolutely terrific matches from a layout perspective and always get massive reactions. Very similar to a Duggan going from a Top 500 guy to a Bottom 10 of my 100. Chris Benoit - I am dissociating the man and the wrestler. A total machine that is always moving forward really enjoyable stuff in WCW and WWE. Underrated seller to boot. Should make Top 25. Falling: Terry Gordy - Like the Von Erichs, just confirming my belief he was a good wrestler, but not an all-time great wrestler. He bumps big, but does not add much to the actual match he is. He is like a larger, goofier Mr. Perfect. Need to watch more of his All Japan. Hey, what the hell is a Gordy list? Sorry, I am tardy to the party. I think I could use a Gordy List for Gordy. Ted DiBiase - Hate to pig pile on him, but not seeing what made him special in Mid-South. Consistently the second best guy in his matches. Chris Jericho - I was once a huge Jericholic, but it was all flash and gimmick. Love the Ayatollah of Rock N Rollah and the Conspiracy Victim, but no meat on the bones match quality wise. Probably wont make my Top 100. Dean Malenko - One of my least favorite wrestlers of WCW late 90s, totally self-indulgent and no sense of flow. Memphis has been the Lawler show and he has been great. Savage was helped by Memphis and in how much of a star he came across so that's a bit of a boost for him. Naturally predisposed to like Savage because he is my second favorite American wrestler of all time. Texas has been the VonErich/Freebird show. Hayes is better than expected, but not Top 100 great. Mostly just confirming the suspicions based on a handful of matches. AWA is interesting. I have really liked it so far, but there is nothing that has made me move people up and down. Most of that is the AWA is the territory I have seen the most of beforehand. I am still feeling out Bock and Martel. Both could be Top 20 or Top 50. Hard to say at this point. Blackwell is a lock for Top 50, but I had seen enough thats where I would put him and this confirmed it. Buddy Rose case will be made in Portland. The AWA is that cherry on top that can push him up ten spots, but Portland will be a priority before this deadline. The Rockers at worst are third best tag team of all time and I think I can make the case for them as the greatest tag team of all time. That may be enough to get Marty into Top 100, we will see. Mid-South: Duggan and Murdoch have been stellar. DiBiase has been underwhelming. I will probably not have enough to watch enough Chavo Classic, but he was awesome also. Sell me on Butch Reed.
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Fair for Flair: a mini-series
Superstar Sleeze replied to JerryvonKramer's topic in GWE Podcasts and Publications
Re:Chops. Will directly said "wearing down your opponent". My football analogy existed to explain why the early chops would be no sold or take a little effect and over time they would have a greater impact. Re: Perpetual Motion. Perpetual motion leverages Flair's natural cardio advantage but was not used to blow up opponents, but to constantly break their rhythm. He was constantly throwing shit at his opponents, knees, elbows, running the ropes all in hopes of landing the one blow that would allow to get firm control. I think the key unique competitive advantage of Flair was that he was constantly fighting back. Watching Race and Tully, they would bump for sustained periods of time. Flair always broke this up by fighting back. That is the distinction of the perpetual motion offense Flair did and other heels of the time. -
All Japan Excite Series #10
Superstar Sleeze replied to JerryvonKramer's topic in Publications and Podcasts
People covered the broken orbital bone. Dangerous K is Kawadas nickname. It sounds cooler when the Japanese announcer screams Dangerous. Never heard Dynamic T does not mean it is not true. Misawa/Taue is a contender for GOAT match for me. May even better than 6/9/95. I love Misawa/Doc because try as he might Misawa just can't contain the explosiveness of Doc. I love how tenuous hold over the match. Really feels like a night Doc will not be denied. I would go ***** when I rewatch -
The point you raise is a very good one I think we all have a home promotion we grew up on that and shaped who we are as wrestling fans. Upon branching out, certain promotions will come naturally to us, some will be acquired tastes and others will never get it. Each promotion, time period and wrestler needs to be treated uniquely on a case by case basis with a close eye to detail. Putting the time in will pay dividends in the long run understanding how different spots mean different thing at certain points of time, to different wrestlers in different promotions. I don't think there is no right way to work a wrestling match just like I don't think there is one right way to work a song. It does not have verses-chorus-werse-solo/breakdown-chorus or shine-heat-comeback-finish. All that being said I think there are universal themes of good work in my opinion. I am sure there are people that will disagree, but if a wrestling match does not have these elements at a minimum I don't think it can be considered great wrestling. That is a wrestling match with a real sense of struggle. I don't want to watch an athletic exhibition, a gymnastic floor exercise and the absolute worst people that help each other into spots. The next is a real sense of urgency in your movements. That is does not mean a fast pace per se, but a total investment in winning this match and making me believe this is the most important thing in your life right now. I can appreciate a good spotfest and am a mark for comedy wrestling, but struggle and urgency are the key themes are that should transcend all wrestling. These elements make matches and wrestlers timeless, they make wrestler candidates for greatest of all time and promotions red-hot.
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NWA World Heavyweight Champion Kerry Von Erich vs Terry Gordy - WCCW 5/7/84 I am such a mark for Kerry to have the belt. I love the title victory and just love seeing the NWA World Championship around his waist. I don't think he would have made a great champion mostly due to personal problems, but I wish it was a bit longer. This match against archrival Terry Gordy is the day after the Parade of Champions. This match is actually worked like a 90s workrate sprint. There is not a terrible amount of selling, it is mostly about Slam! Bang! Action! I think they do a great job laying in everything and making it exciting. They just don't tell much of a story. I love how Kerry runs through his shoulder block and he works the arm early. Gordy takes a big bump off the turnbuckle shot. Kerry misses a knee and Gordy hits a delayed vertical suplex. Kerry kicks out and looks for a suplex, but it is Gordy that gets it. He is excited. Gordy wants to put him early with a piledriver. Kerry drives him back into the corner. I love how Kerry winds up for his strikes. They do the ab stretch dance and it is Gordy that gets it. Go Kerry Go! Kerry switches into his own ab stretch. Kerry forms the claw and the crowd goes bezerk. He applies the Claw to Gordy's stomach and Gordy collapses. Gordy rakes the eyes and Kerry wins a Irish Whip Battle, but then Gordy gets a cross body off the ropes. Gordy hits a back suplex, but only gets two. Kerry pops up and hits a dropkick. This is Cena vs Owens of the 80s with slightly better selling and transitions. At least they are not actively helping each other into spots. They knock head on a criss cross. Kerry backdrops out of a suplex. Gordy sleeper. I think they are trying to get every 80s spot squeezed into this 15 minute match. Kerry elbows and roll up for two. Gordy nails a big boot. Hell, two Gordy moves in a row I think this qualifies as a heat segment in Texas. Kerry drills Gordy with a right and sends him to the floor. Kerry suplexes Gordy over the ropes, but they kinda botch it and Gordy suplexes Kerry. Kerry kicks out and comes back with a kneedrop. Gordy piledriver!!! The most dangerous move in wrestling! Kerry is FUCKING He-Man! He fights from his knees with punches. Kerry hits a back suplex only gets two and applies the Iron Claw to the forehead! Kerry hits a clotheline Royale! Drills a middle rope elbow, which felt like a cool spot. Gordy cuts off with a series of punches and Kerry gets a small package, My Dad's favorite move. Gordy backslide shades of the Parade of the Champions! Gordy with an awesome crossbody! I will say this is very dramatic down the stretch. Kerry starts revving up, but misses the Discus punch. Gordy calls for the Oriental Spike! He applies it! Kerry uses the ropes to thrust himself off onto Gordy. Gordy goes up top and Kerry rolls through a top rope crossbody to a HUGE pop! They went out there to have an action-packed match and never let the crowd get bored. They succeeded. At the very least, they still worked towards finishers and there was a great sense of urgency that lent itself well to a dramatic ending. They did not really have a story or a hook that you could really sink your teeth into and selling was pretty much non-existent. Fans of the modern style would lose their shit over this match. I really liked it, but I had higher hopes for it. ****
- 2 replies
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- Kerry Von Erich
- Terry Gordy
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Michael Hayes vs Buddy Roberts - WCCW 5/16/88 Holy shit! Was Michael Hayes over! I know he was coming off a house show run with Flair in Crockett in early 88, I think a lot more could have been done with him as a singles babyface. I think they had the right idea by turning Hayes face against the Birds to freshen things up. I would go one step further and I acknowledge that would NEVER happen, but they should have turned Kevin heel against Kerry. Kerry & Hayes vs Kevin, Bam Bam & Buddy Jack would have probably given them business for at least another year. Then they could have used Lawler like they used Flair before. This was an absolute blast. Hayes was awesome playing to the crowd was actually a pretty damn good asskicking babyface. He was just drilling Buddy who could not find refuge anywhere. I loved the moonwalk away from the corner just come flying back with more punches. He even landed a stiff chop. He looks to end it with a bulldog on the concrete, but goes flying into the post. Buddy choked him with a rope that Hayes sold really well. It becomes one of the better ECW brawls you have ever seen with each slamming the other into the table. Then Hayes cracked Roberts in the back of the head with a chair. Heyman was an incredible promoter. He took a style totally prevalent in the South and just repackaged it for Northern audiences and sold it as completely original. Hayes kicks some more ass, but ref gets bumped and Roberts nails him with a foreign object to win. The crowd heat was off the charts for this. They LOVED Michael Hayes. Another option would be to run face vs face Hayes vs Kerry, which I think could have been electric. Wicked fun match. ***1/2
- 1 reply
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- Michael Hayes
- Buddy Roberts
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Kerry & Kevin Von Erich vs Fabulous Freebirds (Terry Gordy & Buddy Roberts) - WCCW 2/16/88 Badstreet Match Finally, the Von Erichs and the Freebirds have the brawl that I always knew they had in them. I think scaling it back to 2 vs. 2 was a big boon. Another big difference was Gordy was working way bigger in this match. His first instinct was to stand his ground rather than bump. There are two reasons for that. Probably the biggest was his knees were shot as he two giant metal braces on them. I would hazard having worked Japan for at least five years now had rubbed off on him and he definitely seemed more offense-focused which made more a more awesome stand up battle rather than the usual feel-good Von Erich/Freebird battle. A note the Freebirds were sans Michael Hayes and incorporated Iceman King Parsons as the third member. This coming off the infamous Christmas 1987 where Fritz faked a heart attack to try to kickstart business. The beginning of this match is why I fucking love pro wrestling. Kerry and Gordy just go fucking nuts on each other. They were really throwing haymakers at each other and it felt like a real struggle. I loved Kerry's discus punch to Gordy and his first bump came off that. Gordy clinches with the house of fire Kerry and throws a nice belly 2 belly when Kerry was trying to loosen up his belt. Gordy tags in Roberts and Kerry catches his boot and rips off his belt and just goes crazy on Buddy. This is fucking awesome! Kerry discus punch and tags in Kevin. He is like lightning punching both Birds right in the mouth. A melee breaks out in the corner and Kerry jumps on the pig pile. Gordy throws Kevin over the top rope for a nasty bump. Then he suplexes Kevin on the floor. So Kerry tries to give him a taste of his own medicine only to have Buddy clobber Kevin with his boot so Kerry nails Buddy with his belt. Just when you think how can this any crazy, you have to watch the next spot. I really cant do it justice, but I will try. You know how when someone hits someone with a chair usually there is enough delay to give the other person some time to prepare. In real life, if you were armed with a chair against assailant, you would just start swinging for the fences while the assailant charged you. That's what fucking happened. I mean Gordy fucking smashes Kerry in the head as he charging him. It looked like a fucking shoot. This match is so damn good. Kevin slams Buddy on the floor and ground and pounds him. He tries to apply the claw. My biggest problem of the match is Kerry does not really sell those awesome chair shots. Buddy with a quick knee to the midsection allows him to tag in Bordy. Gordy shows his new no-selling attitude. He absorbs Kevin's punches. Kevin rolls away takes off his boot and Gordy no sells those shots going after Kevin's eyes. Kevin gets a foreign object from Kerry and Gordy is finally disoriented. Kevin looks for the claw to the head and settles for the stomach. Kerry leaps over them and decks Buddy! Kerry is looking for his belt and cant find it. Love it! Gordy a little quickly gets up and piledrives Kevin and gives a great maniacal laugh. Now backdrop driver, yep Japan definitely has taken a hold of him. One more time?!?!?!? Kevin back drops out and here comes Kerry house of fire! He immediately piledrives Gordy and then piledrives Buddy! I love it! Kerry has found his belt and attacks Buddy. Gordy decks kerry so here comes Kevin with a boot to clobber Gordy. They both deck Gordy with a belt. Iceman and Adams brawl on the outside and the ref calls the match off. Lame finish aside, this was a fucking war! For one night in 1988, they totally recaptured the magic of the Von Erichs vs Freebirds as the crowd was absolutely electric for this match. I think Gordy working a lot stronger with his first tendency to fight back rather than bump made a huge difference. This is one Kerry's best individual performances in terms of just being a total asskicker. There was not enough selling to take it to the next level for me, plus the bullshit No Contest in a Badstreet match was lame. Still the second best Von Erich vs Freebirds match and Ill be shocked if it is not in my top tier of matches for Texas. ****1/2
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- Kerry Von Erich
- Kevin Von Erich
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Got a little worried when the next episode is going to be the 1987 year in random tags = Let me allay those anxieties, we will not be ending the year with random tags like we did previously just a change of pace. We will be right back to our regularly scheduled programming afterwards. Plus the crown jewel show is coming up Islanders vs Strike Force!