Superstar Sleeze

Dick Murdoch vs "Dr. Death" Steve Williams - UWF 6/13/87 Crockett has purchased the UWF by this point and Big Bubba Roger is the UWF heavyweight champion. This match is to determine the number one contender to Big Bubba's championship. Murdoch is a full-on heel being managed by "Hot Stuff" Eddie Gilbert and Doc is the last babyface standing in the UWF after the buyout as DiBiase and Duggan jumped ship to the WWF. Jim Ross is on commentary and Doc is wrestling so yes there is a huge Boomer Sooner Orgasm late in the match that is just hilarious to listen to about the OU/Nebraska rivalry. Weird aside, growing up in Boston most people were/are Notre Dame fans for college football, but my Dad liked Oklahoma growing up. As a way to be a dick to him as a kid in the 90s, I used to cheer for the Huskers. Go Big Red! I hate the college football conference realignment bullshit that took away such great rivalries as that. Dr. Death is in a cast, which gets me very excited because we know the master of arm torture, Dick Murdoch is going to kick some serious ass. Doc's strategy seems to be a good offense is a good defense. He can't use the cast though as Gilbert has negotiated to ensure that would trigger a DQ. Doc looks to attack Murdoch's arm as Murdoch misses twice with bionic elbows that were targetted for Doc's injured arm. Murdoch finally hits his target and stomps on Doc. Williams writhes in pain and tries to take a walk. Out of desperation, he sends Capn Redneck into the post arm first and now both are left with injured arms. I love how they sell it back in the ring each leading with their good arm to protect the bad one. The match picks up back from commercial when Hot Stuff distracts the ref and Capn Redneck smashes a mic stand into Doc's arm. Murdoch uses it whenever he gets into trouble. JR finally moves it and Murdoch ends up getting the bell and using that. Doc fires up and nails the Oklahoma Stampede, which looked great. Gilbert put Murdoch's foot on the rope. Doc keeps pouring it on and here comes that classic Murdoch selling. Dr. Death gets busted wide open and when he sees red he EXPLODES OUT OF THE CORNER! JR just loses his shit and jizzes in his pants. The ref is bumped and Doc uses the cast to blast Gilbert and Murdoch to win the match and set up the title bout with Rogers. After the match, Big Bubba, Murdoch and Gilbert do a number on Doc and even Dusty Rhodes when he came out.Not surprising given that Dusty was a big proponent of Big Bubba. Dusty cut a badass promo after the match, which unfortunately puts all the babyface heat on him instead of Doc, which is too bad. Great TV match to set up a big title match with both wrestlers playing to their strengths. ****

Mid-South/UWF Progress Report I still have to write a bunch of Murdoch reviews, but I wanted to write this up now and not wait as long as I did with the AWA. Watched: Best of Magnum TA (5), Best of Hacksaw Duggan (8), Best of Guerreros (4), Best of Dick Murdoch (6), 23 Total Need to watch: The Nature Boy in Mid-South, Best of MX & RNR Express and Miscellaneous matches Rankings (>=****1/4): 1. Ted DiBiase vs. Hacksaw Duggan (No DQ, Loser Leaves Town, Coal Miner's Glove on a Poll, Tuxedo, Cage match) ***** 2. Hacksaw Duggan vs. Buzz Sawyer - 11/11/85 ***** 3. Mid-South North American Champion Dick Murdoch vs Butch Reed - 10/14/85 ****3/4 4. Mid-South North American Champion Dick Murdoch vs Butch Reed - 9/22/85 ****3/4 5. Mid-South North American Champion Magnum TA vs Ted DiBiase- Tulsa 5/27/84 No DQ ****1/2 6. Mr. Olympia vs. Chavo Guerrero - Mid-South 6/24/83 ****1/2 7. Hacksaw Duggan vs Buzz Sawyer - 12/27/85 Dog Collar Match ****1/2 8. Dick Murdoch vs. Barry Windham - 7/11/87 ****1/2 9. Ted DiBiase vs. Dick Murdoch - 12/31/85 ****1/2 10. The Fabulous Ones vs. Chavo & Hector Guerrero (Mexican Death Match) - Houston 1/24/86 ****1/4 11. Ted DiBiase vs. Jim Duggan (No DQ) - 3/8/85 ****1/4 12. North American Champion Magnum TA vs Ted DiBiase - OKC 5/27/84 No DQ ****1/4 13. Ted DiBiase vs. Hacksaw Duggan (Street Fight) - Houston 7/29/83 ****1/4 14. Rock N Roll Express & Hacksaw Duggan vs. Midnight Express & Ernie Ladd -6/8/84 ****1/4 Findings: Mid-South is one of the most loaded promotions of the 1980s having a strong core of babyfaces with Junkyard Dog, Hacksaw Duggan and Magnum TA in 1984 and then in 1985 by turning Butch Reed as a babyface to replace the departed Dog and by the end of 85 turning DiBiase to create another incredibly strong trio of babyfaces. On the heel side, they had Butch, DiBiase, Midnight Express and Dicky Slater & Buzz Sawyer. In mid-1985, Dick Murdoch returned full-time and was the perfect flexible champion to play face when necessary, de facto heel against Butch Reed to prepare him for the Flair match, and outright heel against DiBiase. It only took a couple matches for me to feel like I knew Dick Murdoch my whole wrestling fandom. He is so readily accessible and versatile playing babyface and heel. His stooging spots are among the best ever to exist. He is an absolute pro at torturing someone with arm work and may be my selection for best at arm work in history. At the same time, he has explosive offense attacking the neck and leading to the Brainbuster! He is definitely a lock for top 100 list for greatest wrestler ever. At the end of the day, there is only one major star of the Mid-South set so far and that is Hacksaw Duggan, who has one of the all-time great babyface runs from the summer of 1983 to the summer of 1987. Duggan is such a different babyface than almost any babyface that has existed since Bruno. In a lot of ways, I see him as an heir to Bruno. He has a Northern, blue collar everyman feel that I think outside of Da Crusher and Bruno that has totally been ignored by pro wrestling. Most everyman characters like Steve Austin or Dusty Rhodes have a southern feel to him. Someone like John Cena could be that guy and sometimes he is, but he has too much Hogan in him that does not make him realistic enough to be that true Northern, blue collar man. Growing up in the North, I have always thought this was sad reality that the unique Northern, urban aesthetic has been mostly ignored even though Boston, NYC, Philly and Chicago fans are among the most rabid. Leave it to Bill Watts to push a strong Northern character in the deep south, the dame way he broke the mold by pushing a strong black babyface to massive success. I think that is Bill Watts is greatest characteristic is ability to know when to stick with tradition and when to depart. In a territory of power wrestling, he was not afraid to use the Midnight Express and Rock N Roll Express as main event acts. The Hacksaw Duggan push is among his greatest pieces of booking. Duggan fit like a glove in Mid-South's power-oriented environment. I love great power wrestling and it is probably my favorite style. In addition, he had the ex-football background that Watts loved. He knew how to cut an earnest, ass-kicking promo. In between those ropes, during his heyday, he was in the upper-tier of brawlers. Having bloody brawl after bloody brawl with Ted DiBiase and Buzz Sawyer. His work single-handedly made Mid-South in my opinion the premier brawling territory I have watched. I cant' say enough great things about Duggan and it only makes me angry how he was used in WWF when he was so fucking good in Mid-South. Of course, you can't talk Mid-South, without discussing Ted DiBiase. This may controversial to some and to others it is just reinforcing existing opinions. He was just kinda there. He was in there for some of the best matches in history, but I thought in the case of Duggan and Murdoch matches he was the second best wrestler. In the Magnum matches, he did seem to finally be leading the matches. The Duggan match is one of the ultimate payoff matches and DiBiase is great in that, but it is Duggan that really shines. There is still more DiBiase to be watched. I just don't have a feel for him. I know his stock spots, but what's his gameplan in each match? I will keep in an open minded. I am definitely looking forward to some more great brawls from Mid-South and all the Ric Flair classics.

World Six-Man Tag Team Champions Fabulous Freebirds vs Von Erichs (Fritz, Kevin & Mike) - Parade of Champions 5/6/84 Badstreet Match Michael P.S. Hayes is back BABY and in style with the most badass theme song in wrestling history Badstreet USA! The Freebirds returned winning the Six-Man Titles before the big Parade of Champions show, which was the bittersweet highwater mark for World Class Championship Wrestling, which honored David Von Erich and featured Kerry Von Erich fulfilling his two year quest to win the world championship from Ric Flair. It was only fitting that there was a major Von Erich vs Freebirds match. They keep Mike's involvement to a minimum. Fritz comes off as a huge star and a monster face in this. It was the absolute right call to have Fritz in here and to put him over huge. The first Fritz punch on Hayes before the match got underway got a massive pop! David Manning, Captain Buzzkill says that even though there are no rules there are still going to enforce tags. The match is booked like most World Class matches with the Freebirds with a ton of babyface heat. This is reminiscent of Hayes/Kerry match with a ton of love for the babyfaces. Freebirds do a good job with double teams and quick cutoffs to make sure that this is a total runaway squash, but overall this is just a great feel good match. Fritz giving Hayes the belt in the ass was awesome. A good example of the Freebirds getting theirs without detracting from the good vibrations was Gordy's stiff punches on Kevin, but still bumping HUGE for Fritz. Kevin goes for the claw, but Gordy blocks. They work a short, but strong heat segment on Kevin with Hayes using his boot (he was really clobbering him) and then Buddy Roberts in all his awesomeness uses his belt buckle. Kevin tags out and Fritz comes in this is a great hot tag. Fritz is kicking ass 3 on 1 and puts the claw on both a bleeding Hayes and that little prick Roberts. Gordy clobbers Fritz with the boot. Kevin comes off the top to hit a cross body on Buddy to win the match. Post-match, Killer Khan debuts as the new monster heel. Perfect use of everyone in the match. Fritz got his big spots the belt whipping and double claw. The heels did a great job bumping, but making sure to get theirs. Kevin got the duke because he is sticking around and Mike was super limited. Really fun feel-good, popcorn matches of all time. ***3/4

I think Ric Flair earned the right to be the NWA World Champion and should be rewarded likewise. Sometimes, I read these arguments like Flair was lucky to be in that position or had good fortune. Of course, there is luck that comes with any situation. He happened to be the perfect age to take over for Harley and not be so young that he missed waning days of the traveling champion. If he is older, he may have been Harley's 1a and if he was younger, Lord knows what would have happened. Flair earned that right and then thrived for the first half of his reign as a draw. Bob Backlund is of course one of the most interesting cases in wrestling and in my opinion probably the most interesting. I think on the surface he did not earn the right to be WWF Champion and probably with more digging it would be hard to construct a case where you said he earned that championship before winning the title. Upon winning the title, there is no argument that can be made that tells me otherwise that he did not earn his keep week in and week out working that loop for six years. I am of the belief that for the most part people earn these championships through hard work and good performances. Therefore winning a championship should not be construed good fortune, but as recognition of a Grade A wrestler. Yes, by winning a championship or consistently being a challenger means you are put in positions to have better matches and more impact on that card, business and general entertainment, but these are earned positions.

I am definitely more enamored with Mad Dog the character, but that being said I really loved him in those Blackwell matches as this crazy monster babyface. Where Taz failed, Mad Dog succeeded. There are a couple American tags MX/Fans in Crockett, Luger&Windham/Horsemen, Steamboat&Rhodes/Enforcers that might come close that I have not watched in a while, but I think Blood in the Sand takes it for now. I just got to the halfway point on Mid-South. Hacksaw Duggan is awesome and I want to say one of the most unique characters in wrestling history. It only took a couple of Dick Murdoch matches, but I felt like I knew this man my whole life what an absolutely tremendous wrestler. I would say Mid-South is there with AWA in terms of match quality and may exceed it in some ways. I think I was more entertained by the characters of the AWA, but Mid-South has been a close second in terms of my favorite territory. I will have more detailed progress report once I write up all these Murdoch reviews, but snowflakes will be falling.

After, reading this I am going all in my original strategy after reading this that is to go all in on American and straight up puro wrestling just have a ballot that has a lot of depth rather than breadth. If I have time, shoot-style will be next. Lucha, WOS, and Joshi will have to wait. I feel way more comfortable ranking matches, but I will do my best to rank the best American and Japanese wrestlers. I hope everyone submits a ballot and take this from a guy who has never watched a Joshi or WOS match in his life that all voices should be heard. I am taking the position that depth is more important than breadth at this point for me.

AWA Progress Report I finished the halfway point around a month ago, but I have been pressed for time and did not get a chance to write a progress report. I am procrastinating at work so I figured I write this up. Watched: Bockwinkel vs Martel vs Jumbo (8), Best of Crusher Blackwell (7), Best of High Flyers (5), Rockers vs Rose & Somers (7, includes Adonis & Orton Bonus Match) a total of 25 matches Need to watch: Bock vs Hennig vs Hansen, Bockwinkel Misc Classics, Misc. Non-Bock Classics Match Rankings Thus Far (only >=****1/4): 1. Blood in the Sand: AWA World Tag Team Champions Buddy Rose & Doug Somers vs Midnight Rockers ***** 2. AWA World Champion Rick Martel vs Nick Bockwinkel - Winnipeg 9/20/84 ****3/4 3. Brawl in St. Paul: AWA World Tag Team Champions Buddy Rose & Doug Somers vs Midnight Rockers - St. Paul 12/25/86 Steel Cage Match ****3/4 4. The Sheiks (Sheik Ayatollah Blackwell & Sheik Adnan Al-Kassie) vs Greg Gagne & Da Crusher - Steel Cage Match ****3/4 5. Vegas Cage Match: AWA World Tag Team Champions Buddy Rose & Doug Somers vs Midnight Rockers - Las Vegas 1/17/87 Steel Cage Match ****1/2 6. AWA World Tag Team Champions High Flyers vs Strike Force -8/29/82 ****1/2 7. AWA World Champion Nick Bockwinkel vs Jumbo Tsuruta - All Japan Title Change ****1/2 8. The Sheiks (Sheik Ayatollah Blackwell & Sheik Adnan al-Kaisse) vs High Flyers - Steel Cage Match 4/18/82 ****1/2 9. AWA World Champion Jumbo Tsuruta vs Rick Martel - AWA 9/25/85 ****1/2 10. Crusher Blackwell vs Mad Dog Vachon - Algerian Death Match ****1/4 11. Crusher Blackwell & Sgt. Slaughter vs Sheik Adnan al-Kaisse, Masked Superstar & Haku - Steel Cage Match ****1/4 12. Nick Bockwinkel & Mr. Saito vs High Flyers ****1/4 13. The Sheiks (Sheik Ayatollah Blackwell & Sheik Adnan al-Kaisse) vs Mad Dog Vachon & Baron Von Rascke - Taped Fist Match ****1/4 14. AWA World Champion Rick Martel vs Mr. Saito ****1/4 15. AWA World Tag Team Champions Midnight Rockers vs Adrian Adonis & Bob Orton Jr. - AWA January 1988 ****1/4 Notes: I included Bock vs Jumbo title switch because it was an AWA title switch. Also since I had matches with Bock vs Martel and Martel vs Jumbo, I wanted to close the loop and include Bock vs Jumbo. Please heed my advice when I say avoid the AWA Title rematch in 1984 Bock and Jumbo have in Osaka, which is pretty boring. It is a good match, but nowhere near the awesomeness of the title switch. Terry Funk is the special guest ref in both so it is easy to confuse like my sorry ass did. Findings: I LOVE THE AWA! This is my kinda territory. It is like the WWF, but with better workers and better matches. I loved all the over the top gimmicks and power wrestlers. Fuck all those people that complain about the old timers, they were so much fun in this! I loved Verne coming back for one more match with his arch nemesis, Mad Dog (remember Verne you OWE Mad Dog the favor!) against the Sheiks. Da Crusher is just the coolest muthafucka ever. When his woman lost 50lbs he kicked her to the curb because she could not do the polka as good. That's hilarious! That steel cage match against the Sheiks is just awesome, raucous mayhem. This brings me to my next point, AWA kicked fucking ass at the tag team steel cage match. It is probably because most of them involved Blackwell and al-Kaisse, who are two of the best cage match workers ever. They always cut a frenetic pace and coupled that with brutal violence. I honestly do not think Blackwell ever had a bad match. Obviously not everything is a classic, but there is always something entertaining about his matches. He bumped HUGE, sold so well, timed everything to perfection and had some nasty offense. I loved how all his matches were worked around his deadly splash. It was such excellent psychology and after all those years of missing his home run shot and losing the match, he finally fucking nailed against friend turned rival, Sheik Adnan al-Kaisee. I hate to be Debbie Downer, but I actually was not that high on that match that seemingly everyone loved. I thought it was a great revenge match, but did not think it was next level. It was a bit too slow at times and did not have that fist-pumping feeling to it. Also, I am incredibly shocked by the high ranking of Hansen vs Blackwell. Yes it was OMFG BLACKWELL VS HANSEN~!, but I thought it was an entertaining TV match to set up a house show loop, cant see how it is the 20th best AWA match of the 80s. Then you had the Rockers & Rose & Somers uphold that legacy with two different, but both all-time classic cage matches in their feud. Those cage matches have been dissected to death and you can look at my reviews to get my take. Yes, I hold the opposite view of the mainstream that St. Paul match is the better one. This was one of the best tag team feuds of all time and probably my choice for best American tag team feud. I would say Blood in the Sand is the best American tag team match in history. I am going to through the RnRs and MX in depth soon, we shall see. Finally, took a pretty decent look at Martel's AWA title reign, I skipped over the Jimmy Garvin feud though I have seen the matches before. The September '84 Bockwinkel match is the high water mark for me, just an excellent exhibition of how much selling means in a match. Then diametrically opposed, but almost as good, is the 1985 bomb-throwing fest between Jumbo and Martel in St. Paul. In short, AWA was a tremendous tag team territory right through early 1987 with a special niche in the tag team steel cage match that never ceased to entertain me. I loved all the gimmicks. Hogan on Flair's podcast said that Verne for all his real shooter instincts, loved gimmicks and crazy characters. I think it showed in '83 & '84. It is just too bad he could manufacture so more in the mid-80s when it was time for your Mad Dogs, Crushers and Barons to hand it up. Nick Bockwinkel is indeed The Man in the AWA. I need to see more to really flesh out who really is and I really look forward to revisiting the matches with Hennig and Hansen.

NWA World TV Champion Tully Blanchard vs Don Kernodle - WWW 5/11/85 Tully Blanchard dealt with the dealer the previous week defeating Dusty Rhodes for the TV title, I kinda miss the days of such large egos that finishes like a ref bump, foreign object and foot on the ropes were used to protect someone like Dusty. There is just something so pro wrestling about that. Tully had spent the majority of 1984 being the number 1 heel (an argument could be made for Slater or Wahoo at times) in Mid-Atlantic as Flair would begin to appear more regularly, he would learn to slide into a solid number two heel position. The American Dream entered Crockett full time in late 84 and set up his first major program against the Brat for his TV championship. Magnum TA at this point had just wrapped up his feud with Wahoo over the United States Championship (winning that title) and they were teasing a feud with Flair. Magnum and Dusty as the top two faces had recently developed a bond that would turn into a America's Team. Finally, "The Pride of Carolinas" Don Kernodle just finished his midcard feud with the Russians and was now being shunted down the card. At this point, he was still a relatively big name in the area and the crowd was super hot for this match. The basic layout was Don Kernodle totally overwhelmed Tully Blanchard throughout this match. Within the first minute, he caught Tully coming off the top into a powerslam and the first nearfall got tremendous heat. They worked this in a sprint fashion with lots of babyface offense and a ton of hot nearfalls. Given the TV title time limit stipulation, this is a perfect way to work the stip with a prick champion like Tully. They never overdo the moves. In 1985, each move, the elbow from the top, atomic drop and suplex all feel like hot nearfalls, but also something that is plausible for Tully to kick out of. Tully was on fire here stooging and bumping for Kernodle. The crowd hates Tully. He was pulling out every heel trick in this. Since this was worked with Kernodle on top for the vast majority, I thought Tully timed his heel "hope spots" for lack of a better term perfectly cutting off in a devious manner or taking advantage of a mistake, but never taking too much on top. The goal was clearly to invest in the idea that anyone could beat Tully, but that by hook or by crook he would keep the title. It was by crook as Baby Doll pushed Kernodle off the top. This got Magnum involved, but Tully recovered his heat just like that by nailing the Slingshot Suplex and bloodying Magnum. Tully is able to give an exciting match against a solid midcard talent, but retains his heat by laying out the number two babyface. This is an entertaining TV match with a hot crowd great babyface offense complemented by awesome heel stooging. ***

Dick Murdoch vs Barry Windham -WWF Philly 2/16/85 Watched this about three years ago and did not see the big whoopty-doo, but now I am a Dick Murdoch believer and loved it. This was way more heated than your garden variety World Wrestling Federation action of the 1980s. The Rock N Wrestling Era is characterized by me to very much about segmented work, the your stock spots and incredibly angle-driven. I love how the matches are used as tools to move the stories along and set up the hook for the next house show run. Now, what they tend to lack is struggle and a sense of urgency, which is Greg Valentine (struggle) and Rick Martel (urgency) stand out. Dick Murdoch and Barry Windham being primarily non-WWF workers, they delivered a more heated and intense match than the WWF was accustomed to in this time period and now I get it. Gorilla “The Fucking Idiot” Monsoon fucks up sadist and masochist. Crowd is hot to start for Barry and judging what I have seen from the WWF, he could have been the new long running Tito and because he was so young would have been ripe to succeed Hogan in ’91-’92. Granted, he would have to stay and not be injured. Barry and Murodch are pissed at each other. Some really good jawing to start and just general build to first punch. Barry ducks Dick and nails him in the kisser. This feels WAY bigger than a random midcard single match between feuding tag teams. Now Murdoch pays him a receipt and works the arm torturing him. Dick Murdoch maybe my all time favorite arm worker. Barry gets in hope spots like sunset flip, or punches out of an armbar into armbar or ducks a punch into ab stretch. The crowd is behind big Barry every step of the way. Murdoch is able to get back on top either from missed elbow drop or hurling him over ab stretch to outside. I loved how the transitions come from mistakes until the big ab stretch hurl that really kickstarts the match. An excellent King of the mountain ensues, really well done. Awesome selling by Barry and Murdoch laid all his shin in, felt dramatic. Windham grabs the leg and yanks him out and pulverizes Murdoch who does his classic selling. Windham kicks some Murdoch ass in this and YES! Murdoch with the windmill punches and falls on face. Windham misses a top rope splash. Murdoch punches and Windham takes this real slick bump to the outside. It was almost too graceful so that it did not look like it was that painful, but it is incredible just how athletic Windham was. Definitely check out that bump! Murdoch uses crutch, but No DQ!?!? I am as confused as Gorilla that's not good. Windham shifts weight distribution to roll through on a powerslam to pin Murdoch to a big pop. Absolutely kickass, heated match between two of the best. Not in love with the finish, they build all this heat in the match including the crutch and then it is just a roll through finish, which seems more fit for a technical affair. I think scrapping the crutch and doing the same finish would have worked a lot better. In reality, it does not matter because these two rocked it. ****

I probably will not participate in this how it was intended. But I love lists of matches to add my master lists! This is wicked bitchin!

You're reading too much into it. That's where the storytelling comparison stems from. Yes, I said Flair put no thought into "strategy". I'm not saying Flair didn't put any thought into his matches, I'm saying he didn't put any thought into creating the illusion of strategy. It's a very simple and consistent argument. That's just an analysis of the layout of Flair's matches. Your argument is good but your phrasing is ridiculous. Yes. I watched a bunch of his matches vs the Von Erichs and his matches vs Luger (one you gave five stars and one Parv gave five stars) and I honestly can't come up with a better response other than "lol" I'm sorry. The Windham matches were more workrate-y but also largely uninspiring, even in that department. I just saw matches that went long. I'm sure I'll rewatch the Steamboat matches six years from now and offer something constructive regarding them. I now understand your first point better. I disagree and we are at an impasse. I believe that when you look at Flair's offense it all connects in a cohesive fashion that plays to his strengths and is underpinned by smart heel psychology. Yes, my phrasing is bombastic, but don't mistake that for a lack of earnestness. I grew up with pro wrestling so a lot of my love for the grandiose and over the top stems from that. I do tend to go overboard with my love for the beauty of the English language. I think that is a real perception fostered by Scott Keith and the like. I think it is clearly very basic. I am also not saying everyone thinks that way. I am not terribly sure you will offer anything constructive regarding the Steamboat matches since you failed to do it with the matches beforehand. I don't mind if you don't like the Flair vs Luger matches or Flair vs Windham. It would be nice to know what you did not like about them besides they were long and workrate-y/but not that workrate-y. Feel free to make some constructive points and I will engage you on them. To The Man in Black: The uptempo, perpetual motion style is high risk-high reward strategy. You are essentially creating chaos in a match through movement and sometime your opponent will take advantage of this. More often than not, Flair would come out ahead as champion. This style of wrestling could be liken to over-levered financial institution like Bear Stearns or Lehman Brothers. Running at a high debt to asset ratio is a high risk, high reward strategy that eventually led to catastrophe, I think that is what we saw with Flair in the 90s into the 2000s with his style ultimately catching up with him. Thanks for the comments!

The podcast is aimed at people who think Ric Flair is an idiot savant of pro wrestling and had generally little to no psychology that he worked to get his shit in and basically forced highspots into his matches. In your second point, you make two and maybe even three conflicting arguments. At one point, you are saying Flair put no thought into it. Then you are saying we were interpreting it like HHH or HBK and overreaching. Then you follow up with just because it is logical it is not entertaining. So was Flair being logical? Was he just accidentally being logical? What do HHH/HBK have to do with any of this? I have no clue what you are saying in that point. Flair clearly put thought into his strategy otherwise why would he consistently do it just because he does not always articulate well does not mean he did think it out. His strategy was to break the rhythm of his opponents by going to the ropes, using short strikes, crowding his opponent in the corner and using other shortcuts. When the babyface succeeded overcoming this "perpetual motion" offense, he looked better for it and earned his shine/comeback. When Flair ultimately transitioned to heat, he was looked like a cheapshot artist increasing his own heat. By being able to explain it, it shows a strong grasp of heel psychology. This is not a HHH or HBK grandiose cinematic vision of pro wrestling. With a lot of dramatic pauses and overwrought moments. This is a quick-paced, real sports look at pro wrestling. So I don't get the HHH/HBK comparison at all. I agree just because it is logical does not mean it is great art. Demolition matches are incredibly logical, but I think most of them fucking suck (sorry Kelly, I will be happier on TTBA). I don't understand point 3. Bockwinkel is a great wrestler. I need to digest him more. Are you complaining that we perceive people to think limb selling/matwork = psychology? Flair has far away the best cardio conditioning of any wrestler I have ever seen. Watch Clash VI and tell me that's basically not a 54 or 56 minute sprint. Flair's cardio is insane. The All Japan guys every rarely in SINGLES ever moved at higher speed than Flair. I could see your point in tags, not singles. Speed is not everything in terms of cardio. The Dragon Gate guys move fast, but to do it at Flair's level against a Luger or Kerry for 30-45 minutes. That's next level.

I laughed so hard thinking that Dylan had compared TNA fans to Buffalo Bills fans in terms of zealous insanity. Alas that was not the case, which only made it funnier. Good, fair show.

Mr. Anderson may be my least favorite wrestler of all time. Is there an act that elicits more apathy? He would be in content for a top 100 worst wrestlers of all time. Trevor Lee and Andrew Everett were hilarious up in Providence a couple weekends ago in a great comedy match that was so entertaining. I saw him wrestle against Biff Busick in January in a good brawl, but Biff was the clear star in that match. It will be interesting to see him in a TNA match or more serious setting. Need to see more Trevor Lee to fully evaluate.

Listening now for some reason I have become curious whats going on in TNA. I actually really like the idea of the ECIII character and the brief snippets I have seen makes me think he would be a good character wrestler. I am not going to watch the show, but I listen to a show about it.

Hogan sold more than Bruno and Backlund, but he clearly did get a shine to get the crowd going. I was shocked how dead the Boston crowd was for the main event. This was my first three hour live RAW and God it is everything people have said about being exhausting. That withstanding I was still surprised at the lack of Let's Go Cena/Cena Sucks. There were short bursts of New Day Sucks/Rocks, but they were not sustained. I think going right to the heat was the wrong move. The excessive heat on Devon and Naomi was ridiculous and crowd killing. Now Cena when he is not being IndyCena, He has been doing a Nitro-era Savage tribute act going into heat fast. I think Strummer had a super point that they are scared about the backlash against Cena and Reigns. Reigns especially hiding him in the Rumble at Summerslam. Hopefully, they move towards more babyface crowd pleasing spots. Also the Holy Shit chant needs to make a comeback. The spear off the apron is deserving of it.

I definitely oversimplified. I meant he worked what would be considered a Japanese style with a focus on offense, but he added an emphasis on heel bumping that many Japanese workers don't have. The idea that Harley strongly influenced Japanese style is a really interesting point and I agree.

I tweeted this after Night of Champions: "The internet broke John Cena. :(" it is a real travesty.

I think this show embodied a strong feeling I have had for years now is that the death of the babyface shine is killing live crowds. There was way too fucking heel heat on this show. I don't know if they are going Big E or Zigs at this point. I'm pulling for Big E! I love watch wrestling live especially with friends and family. So I had a kickass time!

Fuck Rusev! I love wrestling weddings! What a tease! I was pretty excited for that

Huge Yankees Suck chant! I feel like they are playing more to Boston than any other crowd recently. I thought Yankees Suck was that hottest chant. That was the longest fucking heat segment ever holy shit. I think that killed off some of Sasha's heat. The crowd was pretty patient though no boring and JBL chants, but thought We want Sasha got more half-hearted. I love Sasha, but if she is going to work face she needs more crowd pleasing spots.

Second hour dragged. It was Steph cut off New Days balls but God are New Day are entertaining. Did We Want Sasha make it on air during last match?

At the show live, awesome first hour! Standard Heymam promo which is fun live. Best Wyatts/Shield match this year. Loved the Sheamus promo and asskickery. Kane promo was hilarious. I think based on promos and character work that is slam funk feud of the year. Really fun stuff all year out of those two.

WWE Champion John Cena vs Randy Orton – Summerslam 2007 I have to admit even in 2015, this has a big fight feel to it. I say that as not a real big believer in Orton’s superstardom. Really does feel like a Tanahashi/Nakamura contest with the two biggest stars of the 2000s going at it. Cena has been champion in WWE for 24 of the last 28 months JR informs us. Damn, that is how you push somebody! There are just so many annoying traits about modern wrestling that I cant get past. I cant stand waiting so long for finishers to build drama or how people have awkwardly set themselves up for spots. Given this was Cena/Orton, this was kept to a minimum, but is still present. I find pure 2000s matches tend to have this weird fast-slow feeling. It is slow because they don’t work with the same urgency as they did in the 80s/90s. It is fast because the transitions are just bang-bang all the time. That being said, I thought they reigned in the worst habits of the 2000s and put a cool match rooted in psychology. The key backstory is that Orton RKO’d Cena on a chair before the match. This probably the best possible 2000s-y match. The match starts off weird. They are basically presenting Orton as the babyface. Cena controls with the side headlock and then Orton pays him back with a headlock and a shouldertackle, which gets huge pops. It is psychology 101 that would feed into the Orton babyface so I don’t understand why they would do that. I really liked the STF tease early off the movement from the headlock with Orton getting the ropes. Orton hits some really big punches to the head, which is great psychology. JR pays it passing due, but needed to really drive it home. That annoying Cena bulldog stymies Orton for the time being. Orton comes right back with a wicked forearm shot to the back of the head; I really like that as cutoff. Here comes Cena again, but Cena whiffs big time on the shoulder block. Cena is falling into the trap of haste makes waste. He needs to regroup. Cena ends goes flying off the apron into the table, which was a wicked bump and high spot of the match. Great transition into the heat segment. Nearfall and now he comes the infamous Orton chinlock, at least he is working it hard. He would return to it frequently. It plays into the head psychology, but I think he did go back to it too often. I like it as an energy sapping move, but Cena never really had a fast break until after all those chinlocks so it was backwards. Cena powers out of the first chinlock, but bumrushes Orton and ends uptaking the turnbuckles hard. Orton was using the Garvin stomp this early, wow. Orton misses a kneedrop, but an Orton powerslam cuts off Cena. Orton goes back to the chinlock and hits a dropkick and a beauty. Slugfest back into the sleeper, yeah some diminishing returns by now. Cena backs into turnbuckles and now it is Cena’s normal offensive sequence, there is some nods to the head psychology, but Cena seems fine. Orton gets out of FU, but another Slugfest. Orton-style backbreaker and Cena rolls to apron. Hanging DDT by Orton, wow he was using that this early! JR calls for concussion city, which would be crass now, but I totally appreciate the sentiment. Both JR and Lawler are really putting over the head psychology now. Cena blocks the RKO, but Cena goes flying out when he tries to dive at Orton and now Cena eats the stairs for two. Cena back elbow and neckbreaker. Cena wants the legdrop and Orton attacks the head with more punches. Orton is thinking superplex and Cena powers out and throws Orton off. One of the better set ups for that stupid legdrop off the top, which requires the opponent to usually look like a fool. Cena wants the FU, but Orton gets the ropes and Orton snaps him head off the top rope, which was a nice counter. Orton wants the punt. Waiting so long for moves is so annoying. Cena avoids and applies the STF. Orton gets ropes. RKO! Orton’s knee is hurt and crawls over and kick out. Pop-up FU! RKO->kick out-> FU, damn from a kayfabe standpoint that is pretty indefensible. I really liked the head psychology. This is 2007 Cena so the selling is really fucking great. Orton was on fire working on top. I am not going to hold the chinlock against him. He worked it hard and it made sense. I prefer chinlocks to be worked into a match differently, but I am not docking the match for that. Things that did piss me off, waiting so long for the RKO and the punt. I can’t stand that bullshit. Just fucking do it or don’t. The Cena quick finish is not something I have ever been enthralled with. I think you can set it up to make it work. Cena has his back against the wall and hits that home run is a fine story, but taking the RKO directly beforehand. I am not whining about Lol Cena Wins or now that RKO is dead or some bullshit like that. These finishing sequences are a direct shot against kayfabe. You can do the RKO->kick out->more stuff->Cena FU. It can work, but the way they did was lazy and ham-fisted. God, wow, this is a tough one. I really dug the body of the match and even late in the game with Orton using that hanging DDT as a cutoff was really damn good. The finish does not kill the match, but definitely leaves a sour taste in my mouth. ****

Pretty much. He's a go-go-go worker who did tons of cool stuff, had a formula that produced shitloads of very good to great matches. He's Harley Race 2.0, and that's pretty great for what it is. One of my favourites wrestler for sure. And he's been overanalyzed for more than 20 years now. No he really was not Harley Race 2.0. That's pretty blatantly wrong and just oversimplifies everything about Flair. THIS IS EXACTLY WHY WE DID THE PODCAST! It is dispel this notion that Flair is all movement and all bumps. The key difference is that Flair is constantly fighting back and trying to break his opponent's momentum with short knees and chops. Having watched Harley Race matches from the 70s, they are basically fun spotfests. Race does not really make the opponent earn their offense, he is just content to bump big for them. Secondly, Harley on offense is fun because he has a ton of bombs, but he is not as violent or sadistic as Ric Flair on top. Flair is double footstomping, punch you in the face, maniacal violent sadist when he is on top of a match. Harley was very much a Japanese worker. I think there are so many nuances to the Flair package that for exact reason of people trying to oversimplify him is why so many Flair clones or Flair wanna-bes (HBK, HHH, Stunning Steve Austin, Hennig etc...) miss the boat that every little detail of Flair works together. Take one out and the whole thing crumbles into a one-dimensional facsimile of the Nature Boy. Also, I did a review of Flair vs Luger Starrcade 88 http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/32068-nwa-world-heavyweight-champion-ric-flair-vs-lex-luger-nwa-starrcade-1988/ Since it is written, does a better job articulating all the points I wanted to make it during podcast and in addition is not as repetitive as the podcast. I also think this is the better Flair/Luger match over Wrestlewar and did go *****. I would like to know if people agree or if they don't (since I have never seen this rated at ***** or over the Wrestlewar 90 match, I presume most disagree) why they disagree.