Jimmy Redman

Or the Kofi Kingston match on Main Event. - Kofi Kingston High Voter

Wow, just 11 points between him and Liger.

Been slowly getting through all of these and they've been totally awesome. Will is so great with his reactions to all the wacky ass picks, from "Rip Ro-really? Rip Rogers? THAT Rip Rogers??" to "B-Boy?? Yeah we're gonna have to talk about that..." to "Jerry The King Lawler, WAY too fuckin' low but whatever", Not hiding his incredulity and burying guys and picks but in a fun way, and allowing guys to explain themselves. It makes me laugh to think of what Will would have made of my list. For the guy with undoubtedly the wackiest ballot ever, Mando>Eddie comes off as so completely sane and rational. Loved hearing all of his cases. The sprint format is also a nice change to all of the long, hard slogs, and I include myself in that. Really glad you did these.

You guys are just adding fuel to the fire now. Not that I needed it. Apologies in advance Matt.

I take his point though. If there's one thing that a pint-sized, high flying masked luchador with flippydo moves needs to be great, it's definitely punches.

They edited Flair's flub out, and it actually turned out to be a fine segment all up. I popped HUGE for Nattie busting out "settle your tea kettle!"

a) He was unbelievably great at that one thing. b.) There is no sane reason to have Rey playing any other wrestling role than underdog face. c) He has displayed more variety than you'd think on the surface, even while largely playing one role.

I'm just catching up with the reveals now, and I got my second bullseye of the list by placing Bockwinkel at #16. Rey at #7 is a huge win for me. Glad King made the top 10 too. Now that we're into the top 15, top 10, anyone placing anywhere is a good rating and it's hard to be mad about it. This is almost the least contentious part of the list, even though in theory it should be the most contested. Right now I'm just wondering which of the final five guys was on the most ballots along with Vader. One has to be Flair, and I'm thinking Funk as the third. Another weird stat I've just thought of is wondering which of the say, Top 100 or 200 had the lowest low vote. There's something to be said for a high average vote, but also something a little different to be said for a guy who got into the Top 70 of EVERYONE who ranked him. But I don't know if it's even possible given that everyone seems to have at least one person who has thrown them on the back of their ballot for one reason or another.

Has to be Steamboat.

Matthew dear put your head between your legs and breathe.

Well it will be updated when the list finishes I'm sure, but I'm sure there's a guy who ranked the guys so far based on highest average vote. I think it was of the guys above the top 100. My point was that don't worry, someone is onto it.

Someone has already been doing that, check the forum.

The site doesn't use Likes. But I appreciate that.

So I told my mother that Undertaker only came in at #84 and she totally agrees with you guys: the list is bullshit.

The point is that everyone's own journey is valid, whether it was spent posting in the threads, or just lurking around here, or from watching wrestling on their own and hearing about the project at the last minute. And the point is that your own journey should be more important to you than worrying about anyone else's and reasons why they're not qualified to vote on an internet poll about wrestlers.

You guys really need to quit it with the charm. On the list, Savage was the final guy to drop who I didn't rank, so I'm all gravy from here. Bret is the only remaining guy from the bottom half of my ballot yet to die.

I love that Ultimate X match. It's the best one I've seen, and one of the more fun balls-out wacky stuntfest shows you'll see. AJ is so great in it. If the joshi match you mean is Toyota/Yamada (taking a guess from the clues), then that's a great example of what I keep trying to say about joshi. When you first watch you get hit over the head with the sledgehammers that are the pace and the bombardment of moves and the running around and what looks like no selling. But at the heart of joshi, the most interesting thing about it and what keeps me coming back, is the sheer level of emotion and storytelling they can reach. I think as women they are able to emote in a different way to men when it comes to fighting or sporting contests, which makes it so interesting. What strikes me most about something like Toyota/Yamada isn't the amount of moves they do or the pace or the selling. What strikes me is the aftermath, where Toyota in victory is overwhelmed with what they went through and is hysterically tackling people trying to prevent them from shaving Yamada's head. She regrets her whole life and can't handle what she is now forcing upon her partner. And you don't get to that place without the million bombs and kickouts and headdrops, because they are the markers of the almighty epic battle they go through that results in Toyota's reaction. But the reaction is what it builds to, and the reaction is what you leave with. Once you get past the quirks of the style, joshi is really just as much about the telling of the story as any other kind of wrestling. But they do it in a unique way, both in the ring work and in what kind of stories they tell and how they sell them.

I now have evil thoughts about El-P watching the Impact episode featuring the Knockouts Lockbox Challenge.

Another thing I wanted to say, after a lot of negativity about the list has surfaced again. At this point I am a pretty regular board member. I have actively participated in the entire GWE project. I have watched a bunch of matches for it, posted in threads, been involved in discussions, and have now recorded over 12 hours and counting of podcast discussion of my ballot. I have explored many different styles I was heretofore unfamiliar with, wrestling from Japan, from Mexico, from Britain, from America, from decades past. I've connected with styles I never thought I would ever "get" like lucha, joshi, shootstyle, and have an appreciation for so many more wrestlers from so many corners of wrestling than before, than I ever thought possible. ...and Negro Casas was still my highest ranked luchador at #22. I'm not saying this to put myself over, the point I'm trying to make is that you can do all the due diligence in the world and still not have Negro Casas in your top 10 or whatever. It's not always about "oh they must not have watched/considered lucha". I watched it, I considered it. And that's where he ended up for me. I rated 21 other guys higher, including dreaded mainstream US wrestlers. It's not that the lack of lucha voters doesn't play a factor. Of course it does. But there's a certain unpleasant sense of entitlement and even arrogance that goes along with the idea that "if only they actually watched the stuff they'd realise that he obviously belongs exactly where I think he belongs", as well as people getting truly hysterical with the idea that the list is bullshit and more voters were a mistake because X non-mainstream American guy is "too low" and X mainstream American guy is "too high". It's kind of insulting to feel the insinuation that you put all that effort into your ballot and still your vote is "wrong". As CapitalT said, imagine how a newbie poster or a lurker feels seeing that kind of attitude. I don't think GOTNW was really being malicious in asking for a "PWO-only" list, I'm sure a lot of people would be curious as to what it looks like, but still it creates an uncomfortable notion that we need to cull a certain amount of voters who vote for unfashionable choices until we can get to a "correct" list that falls in line with your own ideas. You're never going to get there. I'm a PWO regular and I voted Shawn Michaels and Steve Austin much higher than any luchadors. Some PWO regulars didn't vote for any lucha. Some didn't vote for any Japanese guys or Flair! You'll never get to a perfect consensus list until you whittle it down to a sample size of one. Which all gets us back to the fact that your own list and your own journey is far more important than the order of the final list. It's a cliche at this point, but no less true for that. The fact that I didn't have any luchadors in my Top 20 doesn't reflect my personal experience with lucha during this project at all. If I submitted in 2014 I would have had exactly ZERO luchadors on my ballot. None. And when I actually submitted, I had nine. It is only because of and through this project that I finally "got" lucha as much as I do now, because it gave me the impetus to persevere with watching it and watching it until I finally started to see what I was watching and connect with it. I started to see the greatness in guys like Santo or Casas, and I ranked them in my top 25 above a LOT of guys that work a better and more familiar style to me. I realised someone like Fuerza is right up my alley and he's a new favourite wrestler of mine. I discovered how much I like certain things like masked tecnicos flying through the air, or trios matches filled with bumping and stooging. And I discovered that some things about lucha STILL don't connect with me, like brawls or maestros matches or overly-co operative matwork. I have an understanding and appreciation of lucha that I never thought I would reach. Every single lucha placement on my list is a huge compliment and achievement for that guy. Someone looking at my ballot from the outside and thinking "no luchadors in the top 20?" or "How can Satanico be as low as #72??" and dismissing my ballot as wrong or ill-informed completely misses all of that. That's why the journey is more important than the destination.

The GOAT.* *Well, 30th greatest of all time.

OJ has all the best lines.

Watch his match with Kawada at CC 1995 and see if you think Khali could have done that. Yeah, that. Or the Misawa match. Or any of the tags he was in. Or like, the fucking Marufuji match. Taue was awesome and there's no way you could plug a random stiff like the Great fucking Khali into that scene and get the same result. That is utter, utter nonsense. Taue was fucking great and actively contributing to those matches as much as any of them. But because he's awkward and looks like Giant Baba, he gets no credit for it. Total bullshit.

What in the name of fuck.

Hash I had at #37, but he's a guy that like...that's where he is at this period of time for me, and if I'd have watched another dozen matches he could have been higher, because I like him a lot. He blows away a guy like Bret, or fucking Barry Windham for that matter.

http://placetobenation.com/parejas-increibles-6-greatest-wrester-ever-part-6-22-12/ In Part 6 of the Parejas Increibles Podcast, Stacey and Matt inch towards the business end of their Greatest Wrestler Ever lists, discussing 22 through 12, including a lot of big names and some strong personal cases.