efrim

Loved that almost every slammy award was to an MIA guy, many of which are part timers. I understand you might need to lean on part-timers to draw, but fuck, you'd think you could highlight your workhorses even a little with your fake awards show.

Agreed. At first all you see are the freaky vignettes and the awesome entrance. But then, he was quickly exposed during the Cena feud, as being a character with nothing substantial to say despite cutting long-ass promos with a bunch of gibberish and nothing in terms of what he really wants to accomplish. The crowds loved to sing-along (despite him being a heel, which is always an issue in those cases). That doesn't constitute a strong main event act. "what he wants to accomplish" is not a matter for the wrestler to figure out, its a matter for booking. I believe Bray is capable of far more than gibberish, but when the booking leaves you aimless, you have no recourse but gibberish. I can understand not liking the character and seeing limited potential in it. But the booking undermines him more so than any character limitations. For example, right now he's in a feud that began with him trying to recruit Dean Ambrose, seeing him as a kindred spirit. This IMMEDIATELY followed him breaking up his cult for reasons that were never even established. By default, a wrestler is assumed to care about wins and the title and such. You can have characters that have an alternate agenda, but that has to be established. Bray just does contradictory things for no particular reason. Of course there's a fair argument that "wrestler doing things for no particular reason" is the only sustainable character model possible in WWE

I'd agree with this. The Daniel Bryan ascendency was very fresh, but as soon as he got to the main event scene, his promos started sounding like Cena outtakes.

I can't get over how bizarre and unnerving it is just to hear a conversation with Vince. Something about him just sets you on edge. Even putting aside who he is, he very much has the vibe of the crazy uncle at thanksgiving that might fly off the handle if approached wrong. His mental tics seem so raw and on the surface to me (maybe because they've so deeply colored WWE verbiage). The stuff with the pool seemed like Vince McMahon, human being. Almost everything else seemed like Vince McMahon, carefully self-molded litany of pre-determined responses and buzzwords. I actually believe the bit about his "shyness" (even if thats a poor word for it) in small mixed company. I get the feeling he would be very uncomfortable passing time outside of the realm where he is emperor of the universe. I think his longtime insistence (reiterated here) that wrestling competes with all mainstream entertainment, despite the massive failure of it to actually do so, speaks to an insecurity the actual place in the world of his life's work. Rubbing elbows with political movers and shakers - yeah, I could see him being very uneasy there.

I did hear that and assume that's what he was talking about, but I'd like more elaboration about the self-delusion and if that's coming from him or from external sources or a combination. It feels like a lot of guys have this at some point and I'd like to hear more about the details of it

Does anybody recall Punk giving the old "Wait and see where it goes, fantasy booking dorks" line of BS shortly after Night of Champions 2011? I recall that he had a rant to this effect, but I can't remember where it may have been. I'd like to be able to cite it because I'm considering writing a question asking if such sentiments are a brave public face while he is upset behind the scenes, or if he basically has WWE stockholm syndrome.

I really don't think its a reach to consider that. There's been so much death in and around the industry that we presume a level of numbness when we think about more, but I think someone actually dying off a stunt (or botched) bump in the middle of a major match would have a unique chilling effect. To go from entertained to seeing someone die, especially after the crazy bump Foley had already done, would instill a level of personal culpability in most viewers beyond other wrestling deaths. Footage of Owen's death never surfaced, and if it had, it wouldn't have been part of the in-the-moment viewing experience - and in any event it was a stage show element that lead to his death, not a wrestling match element.

Even having seen it repeated ad nauseam, I always cringe watching Foley's accidental second cell fall at KotR 98. It's an incredibly perilous moment and I've long been grimly fascinated by Foley's contention that if he had taken the chokeslam correctly, he likely would have come down on his head instead of landing on his back. Watching the footage, it seems like a pretty reasonable notion. So, I'd like to throw out a counterfactual exercise based on just that - what if Foley lands on his head/neck that night and dies or is paralyzed? What happens to the WWF and the wrestling industry as a whole? I find it to be an interesting question because a few degrees of rotation on an accidental fall may have been the only thing separating an indelible moment from an unthinkable tragedy.

Predictably the worst His reasoning for not even considering the Anderson's is frankly pathetic. Shameful that somebody who plainly has nothing but disdain for pro wrestling draws a paycheck writing about it professionally. His argument for both Brock and Ventura is that they accomplished things outside of wrestling that he presents as superior to wrestling accomplishments and doesn't connect these accomplishments to their wrestling careers whatsoever.

Predictably the worst

direct quote "I wrote this song because I heard a news report 20 years ago about they were gonna take praying out of school" Can anybody who was watching in 1992 tell me if Hayes was spending promo time advocating for a full investigation of Nixon's role in Watergate?

Pretty much all women's wrestling was booked through Moolah's office, and all the women were Moolah trainees who worked the same hair-mare/catfight style. Women's wrestling in America has always had a seedy side, but women like Mildred Burke were legit draws and main eventers. Under Moolah, it became a sideshow on par with midget wrestling. Very interesting insights. Knew I could count on the board to get more context here.

During this long stretch of time prior to the richter feud, what is moolah's status in the womens wrestling scene? Is it that there are other women outperforming her, or is it that woman's wrestling as a whole is an afterthought (at least for the purposes of HOF level drawing/influence)

Can someone either re-state/make the case against Moolah or link me to a place where that's already been written? It was touched on the Modern US/Canada Voices of Wrestling but I would enjoy a through look at it. My awareness of her career is pretty low and I'm only half familiar with the seedy elements of her success, so this is an area I would appreciate some WWE deprogramming.

The ECW episode felt like the most rote episode of Monday Night War yet. Really just nothing interesting or even slightly fresh about it.

I've never bought that Vince couldn't afford Bret's deal, particularly with Tyson coming in shortly after on a big money deal. I think the Austin ascendancy changed the calculus of what Bret was worth to the company. It wasn't too big of a deal in absolute terms, but it was too big for a guy that was going to end up second fiddle to a guy he had already feuded extensively with.

We deserve answers

Hopefully one episode is just a deep dive on the blood runs cold saga

I only just now confirmed that all the members of the Bouricuas were actually Peurto Rico. Even at the time as a kid, I figured it was only a 50/50 chance that all those guys were actually from Puerto Rico

Scary how plausible this is and I'm already holding back laughter thinking about the heavy-handed NFL films style narration "Fans were craving a more realistic, more dynamic brand of sports entertainment. Enter: The Disciples of Apocalypse." Los Boricuas and DOA have to go down as two of the sorriest groups ever. It's unfortunate I was alive and watching weekly wrestling at a time they were feuding. I remember watching RAW around that time was like a sheer cliff drop in to a canyon of despair once you got out of the main event scene. Thank god for 5 minutes at a time lucha action on Nitro.

I'm in on this as well. I'll probably keep to less than 100 and still do a ton of watching just to try to catch up to board average, but there's never been a better or easier time to consume large amounts of wrestling.

It is a balancing act. My experience with doing message board lists like this is musicians and albums (even more subjective but some similarities). On one hand, you don't want to be so myopic that you don't even throw a bone to a band like The Beatles, but on the other you don't want to pre-bland your list by leaning too hard on conventional wisdom. Individual lists should have a unique voice and some level of quark, in my opinion they tend to be much more interesting than the final aggregated product.

Scary how plausible this is and I'm already holding back laughter thinking about the heavy-handed NFL films style narration "Fans were craving a more realistic, more dynamic brand of sports entertainment. Enter: The Disciples of Apocalypse."

The inconsistent application of tag rope (despite its constant presence) drives me nuts.

Thanks for the background on the settlement, good info all around.