stomperspc

Regular, televised CMLL trios are their own unique match type. However, I tend to think of them as a cross between job matches and competitive TV singles matches. They are designed to get guys into matches on TV while also protecting them, which was the main purpose of squash matches. However, they are obviously more competitive than that with wrestlers of equal stature (in terms of placement on the card) on both sides of the match. So instead the guys are protected via the trios format (ie. guys can lose without getting beat), the 2 out of 3 falls rules allows both teams to get at least one “win”, and the acceptance by fans that rudos will have often lose by getting themselves disqualified. The advantage over squash matches as that they can build up feuds and have guys that are feuding interact with one another. The advantage over the current WWE TV format of competitive matches and guys trading wins is that the wrestlers tend to be a little better protected in the 2 out of 3 falls trios format. It is sort of a win-win unless you are looking for unique, above-average matches. For better or for worst, that’s not the focus. The opening match guys generally try harder but they are opening match guys for a reason usually (still learning or just not very good) so that limits the number of great matches that will come out of the openers. The upper card, regular TV trios aren’t necessarily concerned about being blow away matches but like Chad said, I think that’s probably been the case throughout history in most promotions when it comes to TV matches.

I think it is a fine list for what they were going for. The vast majority of matches listed are worth seeing for one reason or another. Skimming through it quickly, I see maybe only 5 or 10 matches that don't have any reasons to be watched. That's not bad.

The first ten minutes are really enjoyable. Hero and Danielson were arguably the two best US mat workers of the 2000's and the opening minutes demonstrate why. Hero could sometimes be a little "showy" with his mat work, but not here. The mat work is high end as always but it is also logical and progresses. They get to the body of the match in a really enjoyable and effective fashion. The body of the match is the usual stuff one would expect from 2009-era ("Young Knockout Kid") Chris Hero - lots of strikes to the point they lose their effectiveness/credibility as major moves. Bryan takes far more punishment that you'd expect for a guy WWE-bound. He gets cut open when Hero blocks a top rope dive to the floor with a chair. I hate writing this because I feel like I write it all the time (particularly with 2000's-era indie matches) but this went on about ten minutes too long. The last five minutes are very strong but by that point I didn't care as much as I could have because of what preceded it. I've seen this praised as one of the better PWG matches of all time. I haven't seen enough PWG to feel confident weighing in one way or another, but I thought the match was just okay. It was technically sound as can be in terms of execution and the first ten minutes were a ton of fun, but the overly long body dragged it down. I am going to try to watch their Dayton ROH match from two weeks after this which I don't think I've ever seen before. It's shorter and I could see these two having a really strong, compact match in 2009 (which hopefully that one is).

Yep. I think people can over think it (myself included). Did I enjoy the match? If the answer is yes, then the "bad" selling the match had or any other negative element it might have had must have been offset by positives. There is no formula and once you make it formulaic, you are doing yourself a disservice because there is a whole lot of quality wrestling that you are not allowing yourself to enjoy just because its different.

It is far easier said than done but these days I try to just turn off the analytical part of my brain to an extent when I am watching a match. I know that seems counterintuitive since all of us ultimately analyze matches, won’t worked/what didn’t work, ect. However, I’ve found that when I try to watch a match from the viewpoint of identifying the things that did or didn’t work, it becomes really easy to miss things or miss the bigger picture. The review Superstar Sleeze posted is a good example of that. The reviewer clearly was clearly looking for very specific things from the match that he didn’t get and by doing so he missed that Savage gave a great heel performance in the match, Luger sold well, ect. It’s not being able to see the forest through the trees. During or after a match is over, I’ll know if I enjoyed it or not. I’ll know if the match hooked me in anyway. Then I can go back and think about why it hooked me. Basically, it is watching to get an emotional reaction from the match (hopefully a positive one) and then thinking about why the match was able to get that reaction. Wrestling is too varied and nuanced to go into a match looking for specific things. If you do, you are not allowing yourself to possibly be won over by a style or match element that you never knew you enjoyed before.

I agree that Nigel would be fine doing color. He is worlds better than Corino in ROH in that position. I think Tenay will be fine if he ends up being able to do it for the same reasons I think Ross will be fine (although likely unspectacular). Tenay will have something to prove and going through late 1990's WCW, it is clear he at least had a knack at one point for being able to add little insightful blurbs to a broadcast. As long as he is not asked to lead the announcing and get over ridiculous angles, I think he will definitely be serviceable. I also think there is potential for Ross & Tenay to bring out the best in each other. If Ross is in full-on NWA/WCW mode talking about Naito's baseball background and Bad Luke Fale's grade point average, Tenay chiming in by pointing out the bigger/more important moves & sequences of the match (which he excelled at in WCW), would make for a nice contrast. Ross can also do the big emotional calls (well, maybe) which is Tenay's biggest weakness. I do like the idea of someone like MVP, Vader, ect. who worked New Japan serving as a commentator. I was trying to think of wrestlers (current or active) who would possibly be okay at commentary and is familiar with Japan and/or NJPW and I thought of Chris Hero as an out-of-the-box idea. He was always decent doing commentary on IWA-MS, Chikara, ect. He would probably be able to get across the style as well as anyone. Never will happen for a variety of reasons, of course.

Dean was (is?) generally overrated as a mat worker/technician in as much so as his gimmick was that of a world class technical/mat/holds wrestler and he was actually none of those things. I do think he was proficient and solid at all of that but not to the level that his gimmick portrayed. I tend to think he is a bit underappreciated now for some of the other stuff he brought to the table. Malenko was very good at being the pissed off face and blended it into his general persona rather nicely. You can talk about wrestling in a vacuum or whatever, but in 1997 and 1998 he was very over given his general positioning on WCW cards. He established the Texas Cloverleaf as a big time move. Crowds reacted big to both teases of the move and when he would lock it on. He timed his big/hard bumps well and I thought he did an overall good job fighting from behind. He was effective as the underdog/injured face fighting the odds against the NWO in the fall/winter of 1998. As a heel he was a bit more hit or miss. I disagree with Bill that the Rey matches hold up well. A criticism of Malenko that I definitely would agree with is that he didn’t understand how to work & control a match against the big time high-flyers like Rey. It wasn’t even that he didn’t give Rey enough necessarily (although I would argue against that), but that he didn’t give Rey the right openings at the right time and his heel work wasn’t strong enough to make people get into Rey’s abbreviated comebacks. Malenko was poor as a heel in that role. He was rather good as a heel with the Horseman in the spring of 1999. He is a complete prick in the Spring Stampede tag and ends up getting great heat on his taunts even though the Tacoma crowd was partial to the Horseman at the start. He wrestled those matches with the kind of intensity that he should have always used as a heel. He also showed himself to be a fine tag worker during that run. It’s a role I wish he was put into more during his WCW run.

They showed an ad for this during the iPPV on Saturday. Given that New Japan is working with TV Asahi on it and they have referred to it as a service, the prevailing thought is it is some sort of streaming service. The fact that it is a .com address and not a .jp (along with "world" being part of the title) would seem to indicate it is a worldwide thing as well. TV Asahi has a pretty extensive VOD service (available in Japan) only so they could be porting that over to the new site and making it available worldwide. Asahi also airs the traditional PPV's and streams them on their website, so I'd imagine if nothing else this will be a replacement for U-Stream. Supposed to be officially announced 12/1.

FWIW, I think it is an oversimplification bordering on inaccurate to say that Bill James believes baseball players should only be evaluated against other players in their era. He created the Win Shares metric specifically as a tool to evaluate players across eras, leagues, positions, ect. It is less about avoiding ranking guys across eras and more about finding ways to put all the players on an equal playing field so that they can be compared fairly across eras. In any era, a player's job was to create/contribute to runs/wins. The methods of achieving that have fluctuated over time but the end goal has always been the same. The idea for James and others is to to eliminate the noise (ie. how the player went about contributing to a win) and focus in in which players created the most wins. Bringing this back to wrestling, the problem is that what constitutes a good match in wrestling is subjective and unclear. In baseball, a run is a run and a win is a win objectively. A good match is not. We can still compare guys across styles but we will be comparing them to a subjective/personal standard rather than an objective one. I can compare Dundee and Yoshino because I know what I look for in a good wrestler/match and can conclude that Dundee succeeds to that end for me far more than Yoshino.

It seems like a real stretch to say the NEVER championship is stronger championship than the ROH title. To me, a strong title makes a match between two wrestlers more anticipated/bigger than it would have been without the title involved. Beyond that, the title should be relatively protected, booked as being highly sought after, well positioned on cards, ect. I get the impression that the Naito/Ishii matches were viewed as big matches because of the wrestlers and would have been viewed the same without the NEVER title. Now that Ishii is the champion again, I am hard pressed to think of a future Ishii match that will be enhanced by the NEVER title being in the line. Maybe against a junior of maybe Honma since Honma going after a title and possibly winning would be a big deal. While the NEVER title is treated as an important low card title, it is still positioned as a low card title. It was an afterthought when Naito was holding it while chasing the IWGP title. I think the Yujiro reign was perfectly fine as a means to an end but "strong" titles tend to not get used in that fashion. I do like that they had the Yujiro title win headline a Korakuen show. If ROH has done one thing right over the last years, it is that they've kept their title strong even without many good options for title holders. It's not even an insult to NJPW booking or anything since we are comparing a low level title in ine promotion to the main title in another, but I don't think the two are comparable. On Meltzer's Tokyo Dome main event booking comment, I don't necessarily disagree but the timing of his comment is odd. I think most people thought they were going to get to Okada/Nakamura at the Dome by having one win the G1 and the other besting Styles after getting a G1 win against him set iup the title switch. When they didn't, it seemed clear that Tanahashi/Okada was most likely direction. Seems like sort if a delayed reaction to a booking decision that was made months ago. Nakamura's Dome opponent will go a long way un determining how iffy of a decision it was to not save Okada/Nakamura for 1/4.

I don't think that is ridiculous. Well, I mean it is in the sense that it's ridiculous because there is an obvious connection, but I think you are right in concluding that they haven't made the connection. Or if they have, they think there are other, perhaps quicker, ways to make the Network successful other than putting out a current product that people want to see and will pay to see. They have operated for years now with little downside risk because their other revenue streams were strong and stable enough that the core business didn't matter very much. Now it suddenly does again with the shift to the Network. It is not surprising they have been slow to react. Getting rid of the 6-month commitment is smart. The free month will matter if there are a slew of people who either don't know what they get with the network and/or are unsure if the technology will work for them. If there are a bunch of people that fall into those categories, than it might have an impact but I am not convinced that's the case. If current WWE gets hot, all of this will sort itself out. Of course, that's a big question mark. It's not as if there aren't other things they can do that will help control the bleeding, but pike pol said, the quality of the current product will ultimately drive the success of the Network.

I don't believe "Fighting spirit spots" aren't inherently bad or anything. Very little in wrestling is inherently good or bad. Context and execution determine whether it is good or bad. I just watched the CIMA/LIger Super J-Cup 2000 final and CIMA has a couple one count kickouts later in the match that are treated as fighting spirit spots. Contextually, both work because they don't come after really huge moves and they fit into the story of CIMA as the young upstart. Execution wise, CIMA's mannerisms and facial expressions sell the idea that he is still hurt but he's not going to go down that easily. On the second one, he doesn't really even make it to his feet. He kicks out early, gets on his knees, and gives a "bring it!" vibe with his mannerisms, but is still selling an entire match worth of damage. That was effective because the context it was used in was right and the execution was good. I think they main issue is fighting spirit spots like kicking out at one late in a match or popping up after a big move, is that they are used too often. They are used in matches and places in matches where they don't really fit. They are also used too much to the point of losing their uniqueness. It is hard to get excited for Ibushi popping up against Nakamura when mid-carders in NOAH or wherever are doing the same thing on a regular basis. It is too much and no longer a special trick to get across a story line point. It is now just a lazy way to try to get a reaction late in the match. "Try" being the operative word because I've seen plenty of times where the crowd reacts much better to traditional near falls in a certain match than they do to the fighting spirit spots in the same match.

Agreed 100%. Well said. The majority of the time it looks like the strikes are ineffectual, rather than coming off as the wrestler(s) masking their pain. It is usually a case of the strikes not looking good or like they hurt. If the strikes looked good, I could buy the idea that the opponent is just biting his lip and trying not to show pain but they rarely do.

If nothing else, I thought Hamada was important to those matches because as a veteran, his presence in those matches served as a needed contrast to Kaientai’s disrespectful, young punk personas. I think they got that point across in their matches, too. At the very least, it came across that way to me when I first watched them. Hamada filled a needed role. Sasuke was the face of M-Pro. Delphin was his #2. Naniwa was the emotional kid sticking with the M-Pro home team rather than joining the young guys in Kaientai. All of those guys – plus Yakushiji – were either legitimately very young or relatively young. Hamada filled the role of the respected veteran who these punk kids in Kaientai were messing with. I’ve always felt the feud needed someone in that role. I can see the point a bit in terms of pure in-ring work, but I’d still disagree that Hamada was completely replaceable. I watched these matches 15 or so years ago as kid not long after getting into wrestling and was blown away by a guy Hamada’s age (and he probably looked a bit older than the mid-40’s he was) doing the stuff he did. That added a ton to those matches for me. You could replace him with Shinzaki or Tiger Mask IV or whoever and the work might have been about equal, but it would have lost something without Hamada in there. This old looking guy doing tornado DDT’s to the floor and splatting to the mat on high backdrops are added a lot of visual value beyond just strict wrestling ability.

The more comic bookish angles aren't my thing, but they don't bother me all that much either and wouldn't bother me at all if the match quality was consistently good. It is a bit of a mix bag though. Devastation Corporation is a fun act and they have gotten leaps and bounds better over the past couple of years. I find the whole Colony thing and their many spin-offs to be charming. Silver Ant is underrated. Ashley Remington is great character and Dalton Castle plays it perfectly. He's a bit unpolished in the ring but the way he plays the role is perfect and really good acting for wrestling in general, not to mention on the indies. There is a lot of noise surrounding those clear cut positive traits. They just don't have that strong of a roster/undercard right now to really hook me. Conceptually, killing guys off, time traveling, and whatever other stuff they do is fine with me as long as it is handled with sincerity which it usually is in Chikara. Like I said, its not my favorite style of booking and presentation but if the wrestling were really strong and the current roster was a bit more appealing, I'd have no problem diving completely into the promotion instead of just checking out the occasional show. Also, I think they have some of the better indie crowds. Yes, it might be a bunch of hispters ironically cheering and booing, but I don't care. They boo the heels and react to most matches/angles in the appropriate manner so I could care less if it is ironic or not. When the crowd reacts in the way the action is intended to make them react, it makes watching the shows much more fun.

Like I said, not sure if he will be but he is up there for me. I'd prob. have to jot down all the matches for the other guys I feel are contenders (to jog my memory), but Nakamura certainly feels like he is in that top group in terms of good in-ring years. Rush, Virus, Cavernario, Styles, Ishii and Casas are probably the other wrestlers who feel like they are in that top "Most Outstanding" group right now. Not sure anyone else has the matches.

I think Nakamura would be in the top three – if not one or two – on my wrestler of the year list for 2014 if the year ended today. This is his 2014 singles match resume: * 01/04 vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi (NJPW) – above average, “normal” New Japan main event style match in the *** - *** ½ range, although below what you might want from a Tokyo Dome main event. * 01/18 vs. Rush (NJPW/CMLL) – I’ve liked all the Rush matches and this one no exception. ***-range. A good 10:00 minute match between two wrestlers that are a lot more similar than you might think.) * 02/09 vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi (NJPW) – better than the Dome match. Still worked like a typical New Japan main event so that might not be everyone’s thing, but the work was a bit more solid and they created more drama than in the Dome match. * 03/15 vs. Davey Boy Smith, Jr. (NJPW) – a little disappointing considering a like both wrestlers a lot. This was right after Billy Robinson’s death and DBS Jr. worked in some tribute spots – all of which were cool – but the rest of the match felt a bit disjointed. ** ½ or so. * 03/22 vs. Prince Devitt (NJPW) – what you would expect. Not bad, but not anything all that great. * 03/23 vs. Minoru Suzki (NJPW) – better than the Devitt match. Not the blow away match these two might have in them, but this was the semi-finals of the New Japan cup and Nakamura had another match to work later, so it was worked as such. ***-ish give or take. * 03/23 vs. Bad Luke Fale (NJPW) – while they were helped by Nakamura unexpectedly getting busted open rather badly on a Fale knee drop, this was still a very good match and great example of Nakamura getting the most out of a lesser opponent (although Fale isn’t as bad as some make him out to be). *** ½ - *** ¾. * 03/28 vs. Damien Slater (Australia) – haven’t seen. * 04/06 vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi (NJPW) – the best of their early-2014 trilogy of singles matches. Tanahashi works heel and Nakamura has his leg worked over. Nakamura’s selling was really great here. There was one layout issue where the leg pain briefly went on-off-on, but in no way a big deal. A very good match and a different match than both guys (particularly Tanahashi) usually work. **** * 05/09 vs. Tyson Dux (BCW – Canada) – haven’t seen. * 05/17 vs. Kevin Steen (ROH) – overall, I didn’t think this was a good match. However, I have seen a lot of Steen matches and very few have done anything for me at all. This was one of the few Steen matches that I thought was at least right around “okay” which I think is a mark in Nakamura’s favor. * 05/25 vs. Daniel Gracie (NJPW) – not as bad as some have written, but certainly not good either. The Sakuraba/Rolles Gracie, Jr. match on the same card was better. It is hard to hold this against him because 10 minutes on PPV with an untrained Gracie was a monumentally difficult challenge. I will say there were sequences I liked and Daniel looked as good here as he did at any time during this run. * 06/15 vs. Zack Sabre, Jr. (RPW – UK) – haven’t seen this, but I definitely want to try and track it down. * 06/22 vs. Bad Luke Fale (NJPW) – no accidental blood this time yet they still produced a good match. *** - *** ¼ range. * 07/21 vs. Katsuyori Shibata (NJPW) – G1 opener. I think they have a better match in them (hopefully when they wrestle in early November) but this was a stiff, intense, and dramatic match that steered clear of many of the issues that sometimes plague Shibata matches. *** ½ + * 07/23 vs. Davey Boy Smith, Jr. (NJPW) – several notches above their New Japan Cup match from March. Smith has some neat grappling/submission inspired stuff but he doesn’t always show it off and doesn’t always know when/how best to use it. He rolls some of it out in this match and ties it in perfectly with his normal offense. I liked the opening work in this a bunch and the ending was strong as well. *** ½ + * 07/26 vs. Yugi Nagata (NJPW) – another good match. I didn’t like it as much as Meltzer but thought Nakamura got the most out of Nagata. * 07/28 vs. Tomoaki Honma (NJPW) – Honma had such a great G1 and this wasn’t among the top 2 or 3 matches he had during the tournament, so it might get lost in the shuffle. I thought it was clearly above average however and there was nothing wrong with it at all. ***. * 07/31 vs. Shelton Benjamin (NJPW) – I don’t really remember this match. * 08/01 vs. Tomohiro Ishii (NJPW) – this was a modern New Japan match through and through and a good one at that. It was clearly a step or two below Styles/Suzuki from the same card but they delivered the exact kind of match most people wanted/expected them to deliver. *** ½. * 08/03 vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi (NJPW) – thought this was better than the Ishii match but below their April match. *** ½ or so. * 08/04 vs. Satoshi Kojima (NJPW) – Nakamura didn’t work the same way against Kojima that he did Nagata, but they were similar matches in that both guys have enough in the tank still to have the occasional above average performance if given the right opponent to bring it out of them. Nakamura got that out of Nagata and to an extent, he got it out of Kojima here. ***, maybe a tad less, but above average. * 08/06 vs. Doc Gallows (NJPW) – one of the better Gallows NJPW matches. On the same level as the Kojima match. * 08/08 vs. Bad Luke Fale (NJPW) – the winner of this (I think) was guaranteed to advance and Fale had beaten all of the top guys already, so they certainly had some drama to work with. Another good Fale/Nakamura match and the best Fale looked in their series of matches. *** ¼. * 08/10 vs. Kazuchika Okada (NJPW) – up until this point in the year, Nakamura was missing that one great singles match. I think this match was it. This felt appropriately big like a G1 finals match at a Dome should feel. Nakamura’s rolling armbar is one of my favorite spots of the year. His progressively bigger bumps on the trio of match-ending rainmakers made the finish. Excellent match. **** ½. * 09/21 vs. Bad Luke Fale – same as the other Fale matches (good match, good work by Nakamura carrying a limited but game opponent). To add to that, I think more often than not he comes off as the best wrestler in many of the multi-man matches he is involved in. Considering that he is regularly working with the other top guys in those matches, that is telling. I thought highly of the January 5th Korakuen eight-man tag, February 2nd trios match, April 24th 10-man elimination tag, and September 5th 10-man elimination match, all of which which Nakamura was featured prominently in. I am not totally certain that he will be #1 on my list at the end of December, but based on that resume he is a very strong contender at the moment. It is hard for me to imagine that they are very many wrestlers who were the best in the world one year that wouldn’t make my top 100 of all-time list. It would have to be a very odd situation (one great year and nothing else) for that to happen. Given how good Nakamura has been this year and last (WOTY level), and his solid resume beyond that, I am pretty sure he’ll make my list. Almost definitely bottom 1/4th and maybe even more on the backend than that, but he’ll be there.

I like the Dome match versus Takayama from 2004. Nakamura played the young guy/underdog role really well and took quite a beating. Good selling and strong comebacks. It is more of a Takayama match but Nakamura played his part well.

Your first definition fits Sabu vs Mr. JL on Nitro in Oct 1995. No story at all - just an exhibition of highspots. Sabu even stops at one point and stands there as he waits for Jerry to get into position for something. Might as well be Dragon Gate. I disagree that spot fests are matches void of any other pro wrestling match element (ie. storytelling, selling, ect.). I have always considered a spot fest to be any match where the chief characteristic or focus is the spots. That doesn’t mean there isn’t a story and it certainly doesn’t mean that it the match is automatically bad. A match that is all move-move-move with no transitions and nothing else of substance would be on the extreme end of what constitutes a spot fest, however, a match can still be a spot fest and not be that much of an extreme. The M-Pro multi-man matches mentioned in this thread are built around a bunch of cool spots from the flying, to the arm drags, to the heel taunts. There is some element of story/reason for the matches (Kaientai vs. M-Pro as an underlying theme). Guys sell in these matches. However, you are watching those matches because of all the cool spots and sequences that they execute. They are spot fests for that reason. It is not a bad thing. When people talk about a technical wrestling match, it doesn’t necessarily mean the wrestlers are exchanging holds and/or working the mat the entire match. When people talk about a brawl, that doesn’t mean the wrestlers can’t start the match with basic “feeling out” stuff. To me, spot fest is the same. Just like a technical match or a brawl are not inherently good or bad, neither is a spot fest. It is just a description of the main element/takeaway of the match. I don’t dismiss a lot of current matches because they are spot fests. I don’t care for some of those current matches because they are poor spot fests that fail to engage me in any way.

I watched a bunch of wXw over the past few days - the World Triangle League shows and their "Ambition" shoot-style tournament show. I thought this one of the better "Ambition" tournaments they've done (this would be the 5th). The overarching issue is still that they don't utilize any of the necessary rules needed to make shoot style matches work. There is no point system for escapes/knockdowns which hurts things. The other main issue is that none of the tournament participants had a strong grasp on how to handle stand up sections. Rico Bushido was the only one who had a game plan in that regard with some nice kicks and even jabs. The others tentatively threw open hand slaps or just went in for takedowns/throws at every opportunity. If shoot style matches are going to work today (and that might not even be possible) the stand up sections (striking, blocking take downs, keeping separation between you and your opponent) have to look good because everyone knows how that is supposed to look in MMA now. There was not a lot of good-looking stand up going on here. Davey Boy Smith, Jr. had a "Super Fight" (ie. non-tournament match) on the card. Of all the participants, he seems like the one who would fair best in a properly done shoot-style promotion if such a thing existed today. While a lot of the guys were guilty of focusing on making the mat work look "right" to the detriment of any excitement, Smith pulled out a few neat tricks. He had a nice cartwheel at one point to pass the guard and the finish was actually a sharpshooter that came off relatively natural and not nearly as goofy as it might sounds on paper. He threw some nice knees, his takedowns were good, and you could tell he had an idea of what to do on the mat. You see a lot of that stuff in his Nakamura matches as well. Rico Bushio (who was doing a kickboxing gimmick) tried some neat stuff, too, in his matches. Drew Gulak & Zack Sabre, Jr. had a first round match that didn't click. Its difficult for pro style wrestlers to adjust to this style and Gulak wasn't able to, especially since they were given 13+ minutes to fill. One of the better Ambition tournaments in terms of there being enough interesting stuff in every match that I felt it was worth watching, but as individual matches there wasn't a single one that I'd consider a good shoot-style match. As for the World Triangle League shows, I am not done with them yet but it has been a mixed bag. The first show had a pair of 20-minute draws. Both the Zack Sabre Jr./Jonathan Gresham matches and Drew Gulak/Biff Busick. The former was the better match. I think Busick/Gulak/Thatcher have gotten progressively better this year the more they work each other, but this was a step backwards. They weren't able to fill the 20 minutes in any interesting manner and it is not a matter of saying simple = bad. All other things equal, I prefer matches to be kept simple as long as it is good, simple work. That's not the case here and it made for a pretty dull/poor draw. Gresham/Sabre Jr., while not perfect, did a much better job filling the 20-minutes. It was interesting to compare how each match handled the task of a 20-minute draw. Tommy End had another pair of solid matches. I really liked his match against Liger from the first night. As I said in the Liger GWE thread, Liger has had a handful of solid, varied singles matches this year. This was another one. The 2/3 falls title match with End and Big Daddy Walter might have went a tad over board at the end in terms of kick outs at the end, but contextually this was a big match in the promotion so I thought that offset it a bit. End is a really solid wrestler who I could see becoming very good if he traveled a bit more and added a little more variety to his resume. He has a lot of the tools.

It seems like he's having a public meltdown but it could be work. On a sidenote, I just read the ROH press release about running Terminal 5 for their Final Battle PPV. I was wondering if the Hammerstein Ballroom was booked already that night or was the building rental fee too expensive for ROH to run there. I know somebody that has gone to Terminal 5 for concerts and says that it's smaller than the Hammerstein. The former. According to the WON, the Manhattan Center raised its rental fees for both ballrooms sometime around the first TNA TV taping there. The higher fees pushed ROH to look elsewhere for their NY shows and they are trying out Terminal 5 which Meltzer says will hold about 900 compared to 1,800 for a sellout at the Hammerstein.

Completely agree. I was going to mention his physical bumping style in reference to Childs noting that Austin didn't do much physically to get the crowd involved in his matches. I was more talking about the crowd loving his offense, no matter how limited it was, because of his timing and force of personality. I agree he was an excellent/underrated bumper. Yea, I know. I just meant to say it made me think about how he is a good, physical bumper.

I'd think so, but who knows. I have a feeling Nakamura's opponent might be an outsider of some sorts. I know January 4th is still a ways off, but aside from likely participation from Jeff Jarrett, there isn't a lot of obvious outside participation/special attractions lined up for the show yet. January 4th Dome shows have almost always had a fair amount of special attraction stuff. I know the Observer has discussed the possibility of Wanderlei Silva being involved in some way way so that might count but that's not a sure thing at this juncture either. It wouldn't surprise me if Nakamura defends the IC title versus an outsider and/or foreigner.

Completely agree. I was going to mention his physical bumping style in reference to Childs noting that Austin didn't do much physically to get the crowd involved in his matches. His outside the ring bumps often looked good and drew a big "ohhhh" from the live audience. In 1998 you have Foley taking ridiculously dangerous bumps and blows to the head on almost a weekly basis, sometimes to little to no reaction. Meanwhile, Austin would eat a backdrop on the ramp and the fans would gasp as soon as he landed. "Out of control" is a good way to describe it. He would go flying in such a way that it felt like he had no control over how he was going to land. I think the fact that he was a strong bumper made up for his possible lack of offense. If you have a guy who is just punching and kicking against someone else who is largely punching and kicking, with neither wrestling taking any impactful bumps, the match is probably not going to work. Austin could work matches that were largely punching and kicking in part because he bumped well and at the right times so that the punching/kicking meant more.

FWIW, I think Liger’s had a pretty good 2014 in terms of singles matches particularly when you factor in that this is his 30th year in wrestling and he will turn 50 years rather shortly. I think he’s figured out who he is at this stage of his career, which is a legendary wrestler with a distinct (and largely undiminished) aura about him who can give a rub to anyone he shares a ring with. Maybe he was overdue in figuring that out, but he’s got it now. At the same time, he’s not necessarily resting on his laurels. I have seen a half dozen singles matches from him this year and while there are obviously some repeated spots that run throughout, he’s also not one of those older guys just going through his classic same spots in the same order. There is still clearly a lot of thought put into his matches depending on who he is wrestling, who he is wrestling in front of, ect. The Adam Cole NY ROH match was about Liger doing some of his trademarks spots that he can still physically pull off in front of a crowd that he knew wanted to see that stuff and would appreciate it. However, it was also about Liger selling the leg work great and putting Adam Cole over clean via the figure four. The Ricochet BOSJ match told a “you can’t teach experience” story and Liger was really good getting that across. The KUSHIDA BOSJ match had Liger on both ends of limb work (selling and dishing it out) and both were tremendously effective. I just got done watching his match versus Tommy End from Germany two weeks ago. End works a high impact style which isn’t what Liger is best suited for at this point in his career, but he still adjusts enough to make the match work. He takes some high impact stuff and sells it like death, to compensate for not being able to take a lot of it (which of course almost anyone young or old could benefit from doing). He adapts to End’s kickboxing gimmick in a few subtle ways that make the match feel like a Tommy End match more than a Jushin Liger match. That’s pretty impressive for someone with 30 years in wrestling. Most veterans would just make the young guy adapt to them but Liger didn’t in that in this match. None of these matches are must-see or anything and honestly, I am not sure how much Liger’s 2014 work should really impact his position on these lists either positively or negatively, but thought it was worth pointing out in light of some of the comments about his post-peak work in this thread (some of which I don’t really disagree with).