funkdoc

using english letters in japanese is called romaji, and AFAIK it isn't used much outside of passports and pop culture. i think it's so common in wrestling, video games, etc. because it's seen as exotic & cool sorta?

or it could be that you think this project may not be representative of hardcore wrestling fans as a whole, due to some of the more unusual tastes of this forum in particular. i could see a couple #1 votes for tanahashi as a "strategic" thing, and you could argue that wouldn't be a bad thing if we don't end up attracting a more diverse bunch for the final vote. basically it comes down to how important you think it is to represent different groups in all of this. also OJ, i would think fewer voters would make outliers that much more likely to have an impact on the aggregated results...

i feel like a lot of people around here don't quite "get" tanahashi's persona. some may be subconsciously docking him for that, not buying into him as a tough guy? not sure but i could see it perhaps. he's basically doing a less outlandish version of J-Rock from what i can tell, so it would make sense that the crowds there find him cool. quite a few things we think of as "wussy" or whatnot come off much more "badass" in japan, and tana is a very good example of that.

yeah trav, i don't think you quite "get" resident evil if you think that was a strategic vote. that person has...issues, of which wrestling opinions are the least. really this thread still comes off to me as "i don't agree with this vote or see a case so clearly something must be up." i think getting hung up on "objectivity" is your issue here - i think that's an impossible ideal for an endeavor like this. this is a project based primarily on in-ring work, which is a highly subjective area. it's not the WON HOF!

to be fair, shawn didn't hit his stride in singles until 94 or so. also, i think the rockers would do more than shawn as WWF ace to put him on the list for much of this forum.

i actually like how hardy is this character with a tragic flaw, as wrestling fans usually crap all over that idea since they think it makes the guy look like an idiot. i specifically mean the way he wants to be the daredevil and get the crowd into things, even if it can cost him a big match. there are guys in real sports who tend to make mistakes like that but are still considered good players, and it's the kind of thing i wouldn't mind seeing a bit more in wrestling.

from what i've seen of FLIK, i doubt hayabusa at #1 was a "strategic vote". the guy is just genuinely that crazy for FMW, as evidenced by him also putting combat toyoda in his top 100. i'm honestly rather neutral on this one. i saw peteF3 say he would rank dory jr. real high as a strategic thing, and i didn't have any strong reaction to that. i guess i like the idea that someone who a few people REALLY love can make a list like this.

yea joe, i'm in the camp that says it's ridiculous to induct any active wrestlers, at least until they're at the phase of their career where they're just living off nostalgia at indie shows or such. i wouldn't be sold on tanahashi right now because i'd want to see what new japan looks like 10 years from now, considering how much his candidacy relies on the savior narrative. EDIT: i do recall yohe putting tanahashi on his ballot without watching him, and admitting it was based on meltzer's writing about him. that's the sort of thing we mean here.

this is a heck of a good point. sorta like how the Rock 'n Roll HOF is really just the Rolling Stone HOF...

i just came up with this in the meltzer thread, but i think brock in a wrestling HOF would be pretty much like bo jackson getting into the pro football HOF

bix, i can't speak for bill but for me it's the eligibility rules that make it impossible for me to take the HOF too seriously. i'm a longtime sports fan and the idea of anybody getting into a HOF while still active period, much less only 5-10 years into their career, is beyond a joke to me. the recent brock discussion highlights another huge issue for me, as that almost feels like putting bo jackson in the pro football hall of fame. the pro sports HOFs don't reward someone for brief dominance in their sport + being famous and playing other pro sports, and they are better for that. i also think it's tacky as all hell that the guy running the HOF openly pushes for some candidates over others and has so much influence on the discussion. i haven't heard of that in sports either, though i could very well be missing something. it's definitely the most unprofessional aspect of the whole thing to me. i will say that some of the stuff people complain about is found in pro sports too. for instance, the idea that the opinions of other wrestlers should matter most - that sort of "anti-sabermetric" or w/e thinking is omnipresent in any HOF i know of. but i don't recall seeing much of the above in actual sports... EDIT: didn't see bill posted above me haha. i don't think the regions would be nearly as much of a problem if dave was clearer about what categories your votes would place you into. i'm inclined to think that non-wrestlers should count in their own separate category, though i could be convinced otherwise. i also think drawing power SHOULD be factored in, as a sort of proxy for "stardom". i just can't picture a wrestling hall of fame without hulk hogan or dump matsumoto, i am sorry.

sports analogy time! if you look at the colts in peyton manning's prime vs. the chargers in ladanian tomlinson's prime, the chargers won the majority of those games. however, the colts consistently fared better against the rest of the NFL and won a super bowl during that time, while the chargers never sniffed the big game. it just so happened that those chargers teams had strengths & weaknesses that matched up exceptionally well with the colts', so they would win there despite clearly being the worse overall team. i think you could very reasonably say that rey would be the colts in this equation. you can't judge who's better from one particular matchup, even if it's been done multiple times over a period of years.

oh wow, i forgot Vader came that early! further complicating things is the fact that Vader was a manga character adapted to wrestling, IIRC i guess you could extend this sort of argument to all the "Road Warriors" characters in video games and argue that some of them were meant to be based on Mad Max instead of the wrestlers...

i know parv clarified his position later, but this is still a really really important point that bears a lot of repeating honestly, one of the main reasons i won't be taking part in this project is that i have a hard time taking "yeah, he may have been a pedophile, but got DAMN was he good at making fake punches look real" to that degree. i may throw in an isolated post praising someone's work without touching on the other stuff, as i have with lawler & surely others, but i don't like lionizing them to this sort of level. and yes, i have the same issues with sports and other fields. i would have never let ty cobb in a HOF in the first place if i had any say. i just see sports & "sports entertainment" as small fry in the grand scheme of things, and try to prioritize the bigger-picture issues. not expecting much agreement here, but i'd like to at least see people stay consistent with this stuff. anyway, apologies for the sidetrack. great post marvin, exactly the sort of thing i'd love to see more of on this forum! waiting on that one guy to post his magnum opus for shawn michaels as #1...

for me there just isn't enough meat before he got way too out of shape to add to matches, though i am really glad he's nominated!

something like synchtube (http://synchtube.6irc.net) would work really well for this though i don't know if unregistered users can chat. they could on the original synchtube that went down, so i would imagine the same should be true here and obviously it's not going to work for footage you can only get on will's sets or what have you

come now, that's a bit harsh. i'd certainly rank him above early 90s jimmy garvin! but yeah i basically agree

OG la parka is often considered to be a legitimate candidate, but lucha is far and away the biggest backlog for the HOF so he'll likely have to wait a while to really enter the discussion. at this moment you still have the misioneros, the brazos, the infernales, cien caras, villano III, blue panther, karloff lagarde, huracan ramirez...you could easily justify giving all 10 of your votes to luchadores this year!

yeah, pol & i talked about this game a fair bit. here's what we came up with: Great Oni = Great Kabuki (the outfit is what separates him from Muta) El Stingray = Mil Mascaras (Hardcore Gaming 101 disagrees here, but i point to the flying cross chop) Alexander the Grater = Vader King Rasta = Brody Jumbo Flap Jack = John Tenta (the tiger tattoo is the giveaway here) Gunloc is clearly meant to be Guile: Pro Wrestler, while Biff Slamkovich doesn't seem based on anyone. i actually recall seeing a Chris Walker WWF match where he looked like Biff, but can't find that now. Scorpion seems like he should be based on a luchador, but we aren't experts there. Titanic Tim is another fairly original design, though his old tag team with Birdie from Street Fighter references the Megapowers. As for the sequel, Ortega is another obvious Hogan stand-in, which is fitting since he's the undefeated champ of their federation. The other new characters in that game all seem to be rather original, with Black Widow being especially creative since she's actually a woman.

i'd say no on that one Matt, as i believe the arcade Double Dragon 2 came out before the Vader gimmick made its debut. funny thing is that there IS a different sort of wrestling connection with arcade Double Dragon 2: one of that game's bosses (White Mr. Hughes) has the exact same sprite & animations as Andre the Giant in the WWF Superstars arcade game! this game came out first, so it appears that they just recolored this sprite and replaced the suit with the singlet to make Andre. stuff like that happened more often than people realize back then...

omg that was my exact thought too haha so here's another more obscure one: 3 Count Bout i shouldn't need to explain Master Barnes or Red Dragon on here, and Blues Hablam/Blubber Man is clearly Abdullah (with a knife in place of the fork). Roy Wilson could be Brody perhaps, and MAYBE Terry Rogers is kind of a Terry Funk stand-in? the one who gets me is Leo Bradlay, as he feels like he SHOULD be based on someone but i can't think of anyone. EDIT: i've also seen people in Twitch stream chats go "HEY LOOK IT'S VADER" when they see Gochack Bigbomb, but i'm not as sure about that one.

in addition to non-wrestling games, it's also interesting to figure out the real-life inspirations for fictional wrestlers in video games. for instance, let's look at the legendary NES Pro Wrestling: - Inoki, obviously. humorously enough he's the worst character, as the enzuigiri is impossible to land on anyone with a pulse. - this is definitely Mil Mascaras, what with the flying cross chop and all. - this one is a bit more interesting, with some suggesting he's based on Killer Khan and others not believing he'd be a big enough deal in Japan to warrant that. i tend to side with the former group, given the Mongolian deal and his name being fairly close. - we've got a hybrid here, with Hogan's look and the Von Erichs' finisher. - the only one who can't be tied to a specific wrestler at all. the moveset is strongly suggestive of the general "brawling cheating gaijin" archetype, though. - people always say this is Flair but i don't see it. the moveset definitely doesn't fit, and i don't even get the vibe from his portrait. dunno - The Great Puma. Tiger Mask as the final boss...somehow that seems fitting for this forum! another good example is Tecmo World Wrestling, which i would say was hands down the best NES wrestling game. this review gives a rundown of the roster, though i might question a couple of their listed IRL wrestlers.

this is totally reminding me of that lost in cleveland skit where cactus jack's fake wife tells their kid "DON'T SUPLEX THE CAT"

totally agree on this. i've thought about creating an unofficial #PWO IRC channel somewhere...

another accidental one: The Super Shockmaster. seriously, look him up and you'll see that his outfit & build look EXACTLY like Raiden's! also yall forgot another really obvious one from Final Fight: blatant Road Warrior ripoff Abigail! Hogan & the Road Warriors are by far the most oft-referenced wrestlers in video games, with Vader/Andre/Abdullah/Muta/Kabuki getting more than their fair share as well. Brody might be up there as well. i'm also shocked nobody pointed out that the Ultimate Warrior is a boss in Streets of Rage 1 & 2! for some other more obscure ones, the crappy (but kinda funny) SNES beat-em-up Rival Turf! has at least 1 and arguably 2. They aren't who you'd expect at all, either...check this out: that guy's name is "Gigante", so i think that one is pretty blatant; his palette swap is named "Arnold" and is a dead ringer for the Terminator himself, as well! So basically Giant Gonzalez has been in a non-wrestling game and Dory Funk Jr. hasn't...i smell top 100~ ~ ~ that game also has someone named "Butch" who i always thought was a Repo Man clone (albeit with Bossman's build): You be the judge. to go even further, Rival Turf! also has an enemy with hurricane kicks and palm strikes, with two palette-swapped versions. their names? Dingo & Warrior. something tells me somebody at Jaleco miiiiiiiight have been a bit of a wrestling geek. the final (and infinitely better) game in the same series as Rival Turf!, The Peace Keepers, has you fight the Steiner Brothers as one of the bosses! well, sort of... it also has a boss fight against 3 pirates. their sprites don't look like wrestlers at all, but check out their portrait in the US version: the Japanese version had anime portraits instead of those digitized ones, so methinks this was that wrestling nerd working his magic with the localization again. i'll definitely have more later, this thread is right in my wheelhouse!