BillThompson

I'm big on the modern indie scene, and I think a majority of pro wrestling fans have a distorted take on modern indie wrestling that has been fueled by the idea put forth by WWE that no one on the indies is any good until they get their hands on them and mold them into truly great wrestlers. Oh yeah, and an indie wrestler, Tomothy Thatcher, is totally the best wrestler in the world. He blows away anyone in WWE, Japan, and Mexico, so there is that going for the indies.

Other people whose opinions I trust more, read Dylan, said it was a good match, but nothing memorable.

Is this the article most have been praising everywhere, or a different one?

Yep, never found a show as dreadfully unfunny as that one.

If it weren't for Alvarez I would say to go with the Observer. But, the truth of the matter is that he's terrible in every single way a wrestler commentator/personality/reviewer/analyst/historian can be terrible. I refuse to support the Observer mainly because of his continued involvement. Go with the Torch, at least there's no Alvarez.

I'm not a huge Ambrose booster, but I don't think any of this is true. Just listening to the crowd reactions it's easy to hear that Ambrose is getting the loudest and longest reactions in the company right now, much more than any of those guys.

For me it depends on the situation, the wrestlers, and the internal consistency of the match. No-selling can be believable because I've seen it happen in real fights, and unfortunately even to me. There's nothing quite like having a guy nearly dead and then from nowhere he gets a second wind and starts shrugging off shots right to the chin and throwing bombs of his own. I think it all goes back to wrestling having its own physics, but even more to individual matches having their own physics and stories to tell.

That level of stiffness in a WWF environment really is something to behold.

I'm not no-selling this by the way, just taking me time before elaborating to formulate my thoughts & opinion into words. I'm trying to go back & re-watch some of his stuff, tag stuff with Koko, Bulldog & Jarrett in particular, to give him a fair shake as well. The big disconnect for me initially is that I always just found him boring & a lot of his stuff not too memorable. Like during his Blackheart run, to me, he just came off as a worse version of Bret, which maybe isn't fair to him. So I'll get back to you. I just watched Owen versus Shamrock from Fully Loaded '98. It's too short and it's hurt by a cluster ending. But, Owen is fantastic and given more time and a better ending I have no doubt that would have been a great match. It highlights why I think Owen is an all time great. He could switch from a light hitting high flyer, to a whiny backstabbing babyface, to a hard hitting heel, to a legit grappler with ease.

Watch an episode of NXT & take a shot everytime Sasha Banks does a hair flip... This is a typical person with long hair thing, right? I've worked with my fair share of women and men with long hair and it seemed like any time we engaged in any physical exertion they were constantly flipping their hair out of their face.

I'm stating my opinion, others are countering that opinion. In turn I am defending that opinion. Others can enjoy 1998 WWF as much as they want, it's not something that bothers me. But, if people are going to counter my opinion I should be allowed to state why I feel the way I do.

I'm guessing you didn't watch this stuff as it happened. Taker there totally made sense. As I said above, I did, and he was inserted last minute in a way that didn't make sense within the Austin storyline they were trying to tell. Then of course they went on to copy the Austin/Tag partner he doesn't trust angle the next month, in what was an insipid storyline. And Transformers 4 made a ton of money at the box office, doesn't mean it's any good. Which is my way of saying I'm not about to discuss buyrates and money, two elements of pro wrestling don't interest me at all and don't matter to me as a fan.

Ah yes, the Austin/Taker feud that was complete garbage.

Not be there and add absolutely nothing to the match. He didn't need to be there, the storyline shoved him into the match at the last minute. His presence weakness Austin as the lone wolf who needs no one's help. He shouldn't be there, and in the end all he does is to knock the match down even further.

Yes, but why? He wasn't needed, he was just another addition to the match because the match itself couldn't deliver. And in the end Taker doesn't deliver because his presence means nothing and adds nothing to the match. Which is pretty par for the course for Taker throughout all of the Attitude Era.

I really didn't like the Attitude Era back when it was happening, and now I think it's absolute garbage whenever I return to it. What surprises me is how my opinions on WCW and ECW from the same time period have changed. I recall liking those a bunch in 1998, but now I find 1998 to be a terrible year from both of those companies, although not WWF in 1998 terrible.

Why is Taker there kicking ass though? There's no reason for him to be there, and him being there is an example of how contrived the storylines were in 1998 WWF. The payoff should come in the wrestling though, not cheap theatrics and a meandering brawl. Why even bother with the match then, why not just have Austin come out and obliterate everyone and then give them all the bird? It has the same effect and doesn't waste my time with mediocre attempts at brawling. But, in the end that's all the Attitude Era is, a lot of bloated and unnecessary crap that wastes my time by presenting subpar attempts at brawling.

It's not funny though, nor does it make for worthwhile wrestling or an interesting story. It's trite storytelling stretched out for far too long and without the payoff that comes from an actual quality wrestling match. Punch, Kick, Punch, Kick, walk over here, walk over there. No thank you to that garbage.

The "needless outside bullshit" is the whole point of the match. Which is why the match isn't good. Needless outside bullshit is still needless outside bullshit, no matter how much it's dressed up as being good. The Austin/McMahon storyline is really trite and repetitive after about a month. This is true for pretty much all of 1998 WWF storytelling. And when the storylines are paltry and the in-ring action is terrible, well, you have an awful product.

Not for me, there's only so much boring brawling around ringside masquerading as wrestling that I can take. Dude/Austin from Over the Edge is probably the best the Attitude Era produced, and even that is an average brawl marred by needless outside bullshit.

I'm not seeing what you guys are in 1998. WWF is atrocious, both from a wrestling and a storyline standpoint. Every match in the WWF, sans a few here and there, in 1998 an be summed up as, "Punch, Kick, Punch, Punch, Clothesline, repeat ad nauseum, Finisher." The stories are driven into the ground and are sophomoric to the point where Daddy Day Care look like high theater. WCW had talent but they aren't doing much of anything with it. Jericho's a great example, because sure he's entertaining, but he's limited to 6 or so minutes in the ring and his promo time is kept way too short as well. Golberg I could care less about. Savage is done for, and legit this time. Sting stands around staring into nothingness as for some reason WCW has decided to have nWo versus nWo where the announcers, and all the remaining WCW wrestlers, apparently forget that red or black, nWo is trying to destroy your company. ECW is really shitty, as in ring it's the same nonsense in every match, "hit a few spots, brawl around the ring, hit a bunch of finishers, the end." Taz is super boring as he's a midget Goldberg who swears every now and then. Tommy Dreamer can't do anything but yell "ECW" and the rest of the roster is consistently hurt by Heyman's terrible booking. Sorry gents, but 1998 is truly a terrible year for American wrestling. The Attitude Era is complete garbage, but ECW and WCW aren't that far behind.

The number of PPVs doesn't matter as far as that selling point goes, simply that they will get however many PPVs that are on the Network with their subscription.

Is there a year in American pro wrestling PPV that is worse than 1998? I'm through July so far and it's even worse than I remembered. Awful wrestling and terrible storytelling from event to event. Only one match in seven months that I'd consider great, and that's pathetic when you think about the talent the big three possessed at this time. I openly despise the Attitude Era, but ECW and WCW on PPV from this time period are just as bad, if not worse.

Shortening Raw and making it where not every wrestler has to have something to do every week would help. I still think there's a place for big events, but the problem is that there are so many of them now that they don't have much meaning. Remove a bunch of the unnecessary PPVs and go with Royal Rumble, WrestleMania, SummerSlam, Halloween Havoc, and Survivor Series as your only PPVs. Take the Clash of the Champions idea but reproduce it with Night of Champions twice a year. That's seven events a year (not including any events for NXT) and it makes those events mean more. Streamlined TV and streamlined events would make for a better product with recurring match-ups making more sense as they would be spaced out more. This is all a pipe dream, I realize this, but with us being in the age of the Network there's no reason to stick with the PPV event model.

I think that tonight's show is an example of why WWE needs to move away from the current PPV a month model. Skim back to maybe 6 PPV type events a year, while tossing in two big Network exclusive events a year. It's clear that the influence of Trips is bleeding through in how long some of these feuds are going. I love long form booking, but the current PPV model suffocates long term booking because people are still conditioned to think that each four week cycle is building to feuds ending and whatnot. I doubt this change will ever take place while Dunn/Vince are still around, and may not even come to fruition with Trips, but it would be for the better if WWE were to scale back and condition their audience to expect longer feuds.