pol

Chikara doesn't appeal to me at all but I actually like the idea of presenting a wrestling promotion as taking place in a fictional universe like any other work of fiction, rather than the currently outdated status quo of presenting it as if it's real while openly acknowledging that it isn't. I think wrestling would probably get more respect and would be forced to maintain a higher standard of logic and consistency in storytelling if it were held to the same standards as even the trashier forms of fiction are. edit: I guess that particularly example is kind of the opposite of that, but yeah I don't think they have any illusions about the fact that the fans are just playing along; they just want to enable that as much as possible.

I thought the Mizdow stuff totally jumped the shark tonight with how heavily they were focusing on it. Of course any time something organically funny happens they have to ruin it by constantly pointing out to you how funny it is. They can't help themselves.

Does Ambrose even really need a pin over Rollins after subjecting him to an ass kicking for most of the match? I have a hard time believing that Ambrose's stock with the average fan was hurt by getting screwed there after dominating the match and looking cool as hell doing it. The idea that he needs to get the win to come out of his match looking stronger than he went in just seems like a weirdly mathematical way to look at booking. He exacted his revenge, had Rollins begging off and now the heat is transferred to Bray.

I thought this was a great show (with the caveat that I didn't watch Cena/Orton or the second women's match). Yeah they should've just given Ambrose his win and then done the Wyatt stuff, but I thought the match itself was great. I understand that people aren't into the Attitude Era trainwreck spotfest stuff but if there was ever a place for it, it was here. As much as I'd like them to, they just aren't going to do a Memphis style blowoff match so this is what you get. I love the goofy supernatural Wyatt stuff (loved the finish to the cage match with Cena too) so that was fine with me. This show has me more excited for the WWE product than I've been since Mania, though I'm sure it'll be back to business as usual in short order. That said, anyone attributing bad faith reasons to someone not enjoying the show can fuck right off. I've never understood why people have a hard time believing people just thought what they thought without any ulterior motives.

BUSHI/Dorada vs. the ROH guys was fun. Dug BUSHI's Super Delfin Halloween costume. Dorada's dive over the stairwell in the Korakuen stands seemed like a stupidly risky spot to try in an essentially nothing match. I'm annoyed that they jobbed KUSHIDA/Shelly (the current Jr. Tag champions!) to Romero/Koslov, whose shtick I find incredibly tired at this point.

Today's Korakuen show that broadcast on Samurai TV is up in the usual place. Bunch of junior tag tournament first round matches and Okada/Nakamura/Ishii vs. Tanahashi/Shibata/Goto. They pair off into their respective feuds for much of the match. I thought the Okada/Tanahashi and especially the Shibata/Nakamura sections were very good. The Ishii/Goto sections were boring as fuck, and despite being one of the people who considers Ishii perhaps the best in the world right now, I don't think Goto (who I find incredibly dull) is entirely to blame here, at least not in the way you might expect. It's not that he sucks so much that Ishii can't get anything good out of him, more that he brings out all of Ishii's worst tendencies. Goto pinned Ishii which I assume means he's the next NEVER challenger. On the one hand I'm not looking forward to 15 minutes of rope running, lariat battles and elbow exchanges. On the other hand giving Ishii a title defense win over Goto seems like a small elevation for him which is nice. Also Shibata/Nakamura seems like a potentially very high end MOTYC, although I didn't think their G1 match was at that level.

Hmm... - Kento Miyahara had good matches with Akiyama, Suwama and Akebono this year. - Suwama also had a very good match with Go Shiozaki just recently that was a borderline MOTYC imo. - I've enjoyed most of what I've seen of Masakatsu Funaki this year, especially his Wrestle-1/ZERO1 feud with Kohei Sato. - Shane Haste and Mikey Nicholls have been a solid team this year in NOAH, including one very good match against Daisuke Sekimoto and Yuji Okabayashi. - For that matter Sekimoto himself had a good BJW match with Shinobu. - Caifan had very good matches with Hechicero and Karonte on the Monterrey indies.

Much of modern WWE's business strategy seems to be based on high floor/low ceiling type propositions. Six hours of TV a week, John Cena as ace, the pushing of the WWE brand over individual stars - all these things do wonders for their downside but all of them also hurt the chances of the product heating up again.

In defense of the "this is awesome" chants (which for the record I despise) - while I think folks are absolutely right about the chant originating from a mentality that focuses on the performance aspects of wrestling rather than trying to get into the show, at this point for most fans isn't it just what they chant? I mean, it's very easy to imagine kids that still think wrestling is real chanting "this is awesome" because that's what they've seen on TV.

Not really on attendance. They bottomed out in 2003-2004 during the depths of the HHH and JBL reigns and rebounded when Cena got the belt and has been steady since then. I'm pretty old-school so that's the one I tend to pay attention to and it's been very consistent. TV ratings have declined but the entire TV landscape has changed dramatically in the past 13 years, so doing straight comparisons there is unfair. They've been steady since going to 3-hours a few years ago. PPVs experienced declines but Rumble and Chamber actually did surprisingly well this year, the best Rumble besides Rock-Punk in many years, so it probably wasn't the optimal time to get out of that business. Interesting. I wonder if year on year average attendance numbers are available anywhere...

I think there's an argument to be made that by traditional wrestling metrics WWE has been on a slow decline for over a decade, it's just been mitigated by the introduction of so many new revenue streams and the rise of the WWE and particularly Wrestlemania brands as draws in themselves. Hasn't the trend of ratings, non-Mania PPV buys and live attendances outside of international tours been generally downward since 2001?

Wrestling psychologist sounds like an 80s WWF gimmick.

Is the 'esta es lucha' chant a new thing? It strikes me as less annoying than the English equivalent as it's more of a cultural pride thing and not an implicit 'fuck John Cena'. There's a good chance that as a cultural tourist I'm completely misreading that though

I think some people are operating on a different definition of 'spotfest' because to me it's always been an inherently negative term; a match that focuses on having a lot of cool moves without making them feel meaningful. A match with a lot of cool moves that feel meaningful isn't a spotfest. The most obvious feature of a spotfest is not selling anything, but I think the "big moves punctuated by laying around" trope, seen in e.g. the Cavernario vs. Rey Cometa hair match is even more annoying. It comes off as a superficial attempt to add drama to a match. I can enjoy a good spotfest because I do think cool moves have an immediate value even if they aren't structurally meaningful, but I don't think I'll ever see one as a great match.

Based on my limited experience of Martin he seems to find it impossible to enjoy anything.

I've noticed lately, and it's to some degree thanks to a conscious effort on my part, that I've become less concerned with the execution of individual moves, stiffness etc. and more interested in the effectiveness of a match's overall structure. Having started to get into lucha this year, it was initially a struggle for me because of how light much of the striking is and how even some very good workers can sometimes be sloppy in their execution of moves compared to WWE and Japanese guys. I'm starting to come around more and more to the Matt D side of things (although I do think his emphasis on the primacy of how a move is sold in measuring its symbolic value is flawed - looking real, whether by stiffness or not, also has a symbolic value). Borrowing from funkdoc's habit of making weird analogies that few people can relate to, I've always been irritated by the dance music neophyte's habit of praising a DJ's ability to smoothly transition from one track to the next over more important skills like track selection, reading the crowd and structuring a set. Similarly the mainline smark community places a ton of emphasis on the ability to smoothly execute spots (and the complexity of those spots), to the extent that any wrestler who can occasionally be awkward or sloppy is considered terrible. In both cases I think the attitude springs from a facile understanding of the art form, leading to the belief that the most self-evident example of skill is the only one that matters.

Has this been talked about anywhere? Because, at least on first watch, I thought this was pretty great and a strong MOTYC. Some pretty brutal violence and fantastic selling, plus a great crowd. I loved Caifan's exasperated "WHY DON'T YOU LOVE ME?" expression while the crowd is going nuts for Karonte who I assume is the rudo. There's a few awkward moments mechanically speaking, the double pin and double count out spots seemed unnecessary and as with most matches that go this long you could argue it should've been shorter, although that said they kept my attention throughout. I loved the finishing stretch with Caifan doing everything he can to avoid the submission, and him building up a head of steam only to faceplant and be forced to submit was such a perfect tragic ending. Dylan needs to see this if he hasn't already.

I'm not a huge fan of the strike exchange stuff either, but I do think it fits Ishii's character better than most; he's a guy with a Napoleon complex who's out to prove how tough he is. New Japan doesn't tend to do immediate title rematches (though they did with Okada/AJ earlier this year) so I'd suspect a different challenger for the IC at the Dome. Maybe Ibushi? I hope Shibata gets a run with the title, it's really time for him to be elevated to the next level.

Shibata vs. Nakamura, Ibushi/Tanahashi vs. Okada/Yoshihashi and AJ Styles vs. Yoshi Tatsu announced for Power Struggle.

I think Goto and Makabe are both great in that spot where they never really get a main event run but can get an undercard win and immediately step up and be a credible title challenger on a minor show. Personally I find both guys pretty dull but they definitely have value in that role. I suspect Naito might end up there too since their first attempt to push him as a main eventer was a bust.

Presumably Kenny Omega, as their new big Junior signing, challenges for the Jr. title at WK? Suzuki vs. Sakuraba is also likely. I'd like to see someone (Makabe/Honma?) take the Heavy tag titles from Bullet Club to really put the nail in that coffin. I'm interested to see what they do at Power Struggle, at this point that really seems like a filler show since all eyes are on the Dome.

I think what they really should've done is Okada vs. Tanahashi at the G1 finals, then Okada vs. Nakamura for the title at the Dome, but given the situation going into this show I don't have a huge problem with it. Granted I've only been following the promotion for a year so it's a new one for me (although I have gone back and watched some of their matches). I would've rather seen Okada/AJ since I expect Okada/Tana to be a typical New Japan big match which isn't a style I'm a huge fan of, but from the promotion's perspective I can see wanting to main event the Dome with two natives. They really seem to need another guy in the upper echelon mix though, hopefully Shibata vs. Okada can main event the Dome in 2016.

I liked the second Shibata/Tanahashi match at the level of a ***3/4 match. Agree with Dylan that Tanahashi doesn't fit in the role he was required to play there. Hate popping up after suplexes and long boring forearm exchanges. Given all that I guess it's pretty remarkable I thought it was as good as I did.

Do we have enough interest here to maintain a "Current WWE"-like thread for New Japan? I know at least some of you keep up with all the shows King of Pro Wrestling was today/last night. I missed the first hour but thought the rest was a very good show of mostly ***-***3/4 matches with one standout in Ishii/Yujiro. My thoughts: - I guess the Junior tag title matches are typecast as these kind of meaningless go-go-go matches now, and while I understand there's a place for that stuff on a card I wish they'd get a chance to work more traditional matches sometimes as it's not really a style I'm a fan of. - El Desperado is already so much better as a heel. I hope this leads to something for him, was disappointed charisma vacuum Taguchi retained the title. - For two guys with shoot style experience the stuff Saku and Misu were doing wasn't very compelling. I guess neither were ever particularly great shoot style workers, though? I know Misu has the one fantastic PWFG match against Naoki Sano. - Sooo glad Ishii has his belt back and can go back to having ****+ singles matches on every show. I thought the low blow no sell was fucking stupid but on Dave's recap he says he blocked it so maybe I missed something? - Shibata has a such an incredible aura, he really feels like he belongs in the top echelon of the promotion. He needs to be a top guy like right now, which I guess is where they're going with him. - Liked Okada/Naito taking things in a somewhat different direction. My main criticism of Okada has been that he only has one match, but if we keep seeing stuff like this out of him I may have to change my tune. My main criticism of this would be that they rather quickly blew off the unique opening section to do back and forth my turn/your turn stuff rather than building heat through long control segments. Naito eating a sick DDT on the floor only to be back in the ring doing moves within a minute was egregious. Felt like the match lacked the drama befitting its stakes because of that, although the fact that nobody believed Naito had a chance in hell of winning has to shoulder some of the blame there I guess. I liked that for once the Rainmaker pose wasn't the "HERE IS THE NEARFALLS SECTION" signal but actually went directly into the finish. - Felt the same way about Styles/Tanahashi as I did about their G1 match; what they did was good but it was missing that higher gear to really amp up the drama and make it a great match. As a sports entertainment spectacle that builds a storyline I thought this was very good though. I feel like these two should have a real blow away match in them and I hope we get to see it some day.

Have pretty much only seen his stuff this year. While he's had some great moments, his big match style is very formulaic. Not even one of the top 5 workers in his company this year.