InYourCase

I've personally considered the Ruthless Aggression era to be from 2002-2008.

To be fair, I thought the All Star Weekend shows looked better than anything PWG put out this past year. It seems like a small step in the right direction.

Even when the shows are great, I typically take a break halfway through the DVD.

What's been disappointing about my Big Japan lads? ??? This Japan thread has been one of the more surprising to me since this whole GWE deal started. For purely Jumbo-related reasons or is there something else that you've found surprising?

PWG burnt me out. There's a period in that promotion's history from DDT4 2011 (March, I believe) through BOLA 2013 that is just unbelievable. Claudio, Hero, Generico, Steen, the Young Bucks, Super Smash Bros, Willie Mack, Tozawa, etc. - they all killed it. I still think BOLA 2013 is the best BOLA ever. Much better than 2014 and 2015. The promotion lost its focus, in a way. The great thing about PWG for awhile was that everyone brought their own style to PWG. The Bucks were different than SSB who were different than RockNES Monsters who were different than Brian Cage and Willie Mack. Now, the "PWG style" is what everyone wrestles. I'm a fan of "excess" and excitement, but a lot of guys in PWG do too much. There's very few compelling singles matches in PWG right now. Everyone goes out there, does spots, and then leaves. There are guys that I love working for PWG right now, but besides Hero and Speedball, no one in that promotion interests me right now. From a historical standpoint, Threemendous III (2012), Guerre Sans Frontières (2009), Steen Wolf (2011), Fear (2011), and BOLA Night 2 (2013) are probably their best shows ever.

Which Japanese wrestler will you rank highest? If we're counting Hansen, then Hansen. If not, Kobashi, Kawada, then Tenryu. That's my 1-4 right now. Which Japanese wrestlers do you expect to make your list? Half of my list, at least, is Japanese wrestlers. Dragon Gate, New Japan, All Japan, Big Japan, DDT, RINGS, UWFi, Michinoku Pro, and NOAH all have representatives. Who was the best of the 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s, 2010s to come out of Japan? 70s: Void - haven't seen enough 80s: Fujinami, Choshu, Maeda, Tenryu 90s: Kobashi, Misawa, Hashimoto 2000s: Kobashi, KENTA, Masaaki Mochizuki 2010s: Tanahashi, Akira Tozawa, Masaaki Mochizuki Who was your favorite Ace? Misawa in 90s All Japan, Kobashi in 2000s NOAH, and Mochizuki in 2011 Dragon Gate Who was your favorite top challenger? Kawada Who was your favorite under the radar guy? Susumu Yokosuka, Daisuke Sekimoto, Yoji Anjoh Who was the best at their peak? Kobashi, Kawada, Mochizuki, Tenryu, Tanahashi Who has disappointed you the most? Inoki - mainly because he has so much charisma and continues to produce such disappointing matches. Volk Han continues to drop as I watch more Tamura, Anjoh, and Maeda. I thought I'd have him much higher, so I'll mark him down as a disappointment, also .

Went back and watched some Nigel this weekend and he was more interesting than I remember. You could really make an argument that he deserves to be on everyone's ballot because of his peak. The Danielson series, the KENTA match in New York, and the Aries match in New York. Next level stuff, really. More than that, he has a few things working for him. 1) His character work comes across great in both his Pure Title and World Title runs. Stuff that Black/Davey/Roddy/Lynn didn't do well. I'm a little biased because Danielson's 2006 heel work is probably my favorite character work ever, but Nigel's is almost as good as that. He's really, really good from that aspect. It's little things like giving Aries the finger after blocking his dropkick, but it comes across really well in the context of the match. 2) I respect his ability to change styles. A 2004 Nigel match was totally different than a 2009 Nigel match. That faux-World of Sport style was really good for awhile, then he transitioned into the Pure Champion and his matches relied a lot on basic heel work, and then he became the world champion, lariat-throwing machine. 3) He has a few really solid gimmick matches. The Liverpool Fight Without Honor against Jimmy Rave, the 1/25/08 cage match with Hero, and then that weird gimmick match with Angle in TNA. Three Degrees of Hell, or something. Underrated brawler. 4) I don't think I've ever seen a wrestler as entertaining on his back as Nigel is. This comes across really well in the 12/27/07 Aries match and the 2/23/08 Danielson match. It's very "MMA-ish" and I think we would've seen a lot more of it had he not been injured so often, which caused him to change his style. There was excitement when he was on the mat, especially in the Aries match, because he made worked punches seem really exciting. It was something small that I noticed, but I felt like pointing it out. In conclusion, I think I just talked myself into voting for Nigel.

I will be punishing Parv with baseball references in any future conversations regarding Jumbo or Flair.

I second this. Goldberg got really good at squashes, to a point where they some of them felt a little different. I'm a huge fan of his squash vs. Yuji Nagata. Way too much fun for a two minute match.

This is a pretty strong assertion when Flair and Jumbo both exist and it shouldn't go unchecked without further elaboration, because the arguments are far from obvious or self-evident. Needs fleshing out. You are really quite charming. He's better than Jumbo, for sure. I don't care for most of Jumbo's work before the Choshu feud. The slow, methodical NWA-style tag matches don't do a whole lot for me, especially when Jumbo is working them. Part of that, I think, is that I was introduced to 1990 ass-kicker Jumbo before I saw his younger years. 6/8/83 with Flair drags for me. It's not what I'm looking for in a Jumbo match. Fujinami starts off the decade as a dynamic junior capable of getting great matches from Dynamite Kid and quickly becomes this incredible, ace-like babyface while battling Riki Choshu. Their series is excellent. Both guys are outstanding. Fujinami gets a solid match out of Inoki 9/19/85 and I loathe most Inoki singles matches. Fujinami's work against the UWF crew can't go unmentioned. He bumps and bleeds his ass off against Fujiwara in the 5/1/86 Gauntlet Match and continues selling like a mad man against Maeda. They go about five minutes before the referee stops the match for Fujinami's health. Their rematch on 6/12/86 perfectly plays off that finish. He finishes off the decade working really, really well with Bam Bam and a really young Vader. Better seller, better bumper, better ace, better babyface, better matches. That's why Fujinami was better than Jumbo in the 80's. This isn't a new theory. I love Flair, much more than Jumbo, and while there's still a lot of Flair that I need to watch before my ballot is due, I don't have a problem saying that Fujinami was the best worker of the 80's.

Seems appropriate that I revisit this thread tonight, seeing as how I'll more than likely be the high vote on him. Went back and watched parts of Aries' 2007 ROH run a few nights ago. I forgot how he started becoming a crazy bumper at one point. He has a title match against Morishima (worked very similar to the 2004 Joe match, but better) and Aries takes a lot of stupidly entertaining bumps, including a Backdrop Driver from the top rope. He's got a match with Roderick Strong a few months later where he bumps around like a ragdoll for Roddy. The Best of 3 series with Danielson is really as good as it gets. Best two workers in ROH history doing what they do best. Aries is every bit as good as Danielson is in all of those matches. I'm way higher on him than most, but I can't imagine not having this guy on your ballot.

So am I going to end up being the high vote on Fujinami? Right now he's my #9 and I could see him sliding into my #5-6. -Have a lot more of his 70's work to watch, but the little I've seen I've enjoyed. Nothing too outstanding yet, but stuff that is decent at the very least. -Best worker of the 1980's -Consistently good through 1998. I've really liked the two matches I've seen from him tagging with Hashimoto. One match vs. Nagata & Nakanishi and another vs. Tenryu & Koshinaka. -Need to watch any pimped work (the Nishimura match might be it?) from the 2000's. -Loving him as a tag/multi-man match worker. His offense just seems to fit into those environments. There's always a sense of urgency with him, which I really appreciate. -He plays a great ace. Not like Misawa, in the sense that he's untouchable, but he's a fiery babyface that never quits and obviously the New Japan crowd loves that. Seeing him in the WAR feud has been cool. He's older, but his passion is still there. While his peaks in the 80's are much higher, I've enjoyed 90's Fujinami. His stuff in the WAR feud, especially, has been quite enjoyable. Fujinami & Liger vs. Tenryu & Kitahara from 8/3/93 is a ton of fun. Then, of course, there's the G1 Final with Hase a few weeks later. 1993 was a really strong year for Fuji, which is crazy, considering that his best work was done a decade prior with Choshu. The Choshu/Fujinami series was the first thing I watched when I started this project. Why? I have no idea, but I'll need to go back and rewatch all of those matches because I'm an idiot and I didn't take notes on those matches. All I remember is that I loved most of those matches. If I like those a ton of rewatch, this is a guy that I could end up ranking above Flair, Mochizuki, and/or Hashimoto.

I chose to stay out of the discussion because some people on here don't know that people my age exist.

Don't think he'll make my list this time around, but I could see him being a #98-99 pick if he does something unreal within the next three months. He went from being really good to really GREAT this past year and surely, the next time something like this is done, he'll be on my list. Now is just a little too soon, though.

DDT has their annual Peter Pan show in Sumo Hall. Dragon Gate has Kobe World Festival every July. Big Japan ran Sumo Hall for the first time last year and hopefully they continue to do so for their big show.

I find him extremely boring. There's nothing he does wrong, really (I hate the Atlantida but that's a personal gripe) but he does nothing that ever engages me. Didn't like his mask matches with Ultimo and La Sombra. He's there. I feel like you could plug in tons of other people and they'd be better in his role than he is.

Noble's peak is good enough for me. He's finding a spot on my ballot. His 2005 ROH run is really as good as it gets. Love his ROH debut against Spanky, his two matches with Aries from that summer, his Pure Title match against Joe (arguably the best Pure Title match ever), his title change against Danielson, and his farewell against Roddy. There's too much quality in that year to ignore him. Not to mention his FIP run, which was also quite fun. As a Velocity/Smackdown undercard guy he was great. The Rey match from 2003, obviously, is outstanding. If he would've spent another year or two in ROH and maybe toured NOAH, I think he'd be a slam dunk for most people that value ROH. When I look at his peak stuff, there's no way I can't include him.

Another one of those guys that I just can't believe is being considered. He's not like Sabu in the sense that there was a method to his madness. He was just sloppy and hell, having one good match against Austin is nothing to write home about. I enjoyed Shane in the DX stuff in 2006, but Vince was atrocious. Wouldn't be in my Top 500.

As of now, Casas is my only lock based on purely work in Mexico. I'll probably be the low vote on him just because I don't totally get lucha, but I still respect what he does and I can see that he's one of the 100 best wrestlers ever. Sammy sent me a bunch of Satanico to watch last month and I still haven't gotten around to it. I want to give him, Pirata Morgan, and Charles Jr a good look before ballots are due. Atlantis will not be making my ballot. Don't understand his appeal at all.

I don't think anyone should pull out of the project. I want as many ballots as possible - that's what makes this more fun. That being said, I do find anyone considering drawing power or promos to be a little off in terms of what the project is supposed to represent. Then again, that's just my opinion and I could obviously end up being the one that is out to lunch. "Creep" is admittedly harsh and I apologize for that.

The idea of ranking someone like Trish Stratus because she wrote her own dialogue for a feud that, as far as I know, drew no money and did nothing else than give Jericho, Christian, and Trish some direction for awhile, over someone like Milano Collection A.T., who is someone with such incredibly unique charisma, someone who thrived in multiple environments, and someone who blows Trish out of the fucking water as a worker is just mind numbing to me. Milano had better offense. Sold better. Was more sympathetic. Played a great heel. Played a great babyface. SO MUCH BETTER THAN TRISH. And Milano is on my bubble right now! He probably won't even make my list. I tried my hardest not to make this a red herring argument, but whatever, thebrainfollower is so far out to lunch with his mindset for this project and his creepy, unsettling fascination with Trish Stratus that it detracts from the entire project. It's one thing to factor in promos. If they can add to the context of a match and that makes the match for enjoyable, sure, go for it. I just chastised Parv for going into a TNA match without context and so sure, I guess promos can play a factor in this. But drawing power? That has nothing to do with what this project is based on. I don't like criticizing people's opinions because Lord knows I'm very different than most people on this forum, but I am so sick of seeing thebrainfollower spew this nonsense. I don't agree with Parv on a whole lot but I consider all of his BIGLAV things when I'm evaluating a wrestler. My process is nowhere near as scientific as his, but we're very much similar in that. I value offense, selling and multi-man match psychology also, which I'll explain. Selling: I think my version of "good selling" is very different from what most people on this board think it is, but I value someone that can draw me into the match with their selling. Hansen is one of the best sellers ever, to me at least. He does a great job of selling worked over limbs, but I like the way he portrays pain. It fits into his aura more so than any wrestling limping after they were just chop blocked. Hansen's selling is so logical to me. He's a bear and he gets wounded from time to time. It's so damn hard to kill him, but it's easy to wound him. Offense: Shingo Takagi probably benefits from this more than anyone. I value great offense in wrestling and sometimes great offense is just doing something that looks cool. I don't care what anyone really thinks about that. If you can pop me with a flip or a wacky slam, more power to you. Takagi, Choshu, Hansen, and Kobashi have all benefited greatly from this. Multi-Man Performances: Fujinami & the Dragon Gate crew benefit from this more than anyone. I enjoy seeing how wrestlers can adapt to working tag matches/six-man tags/eight-man tags/etc. I think there's a different sort of psychology needed, especially in elimination matches. Sometimes guys are just better in tags, also. Yoshiaki Yatsu jumps off the screen in tags, but often leaves me disappointed in singles matches. That being said, he'll rank for me because I think he's an outstanding tag worker. The ability to put on good matches: Look, at the end of the day, great wrestlers are wrestlers that entertain me. There are probably a handful of lucha guys that are technically proficient and do a bunch of things in six-mans that I'd like and have killer offense and sell well, but I hate so many things about lucha and so I'll probably just end up with Negro Casas being the only luchador on my list. At no point during this project have I thought about promo ability (I use promos for context, I don't pay attention to how good/bad the promo is) or drawing power or if a worker can work a bra & panties match or not. This *should* be a somewhat simple project. Not sure how we ended up here.

I have Marufuji on my list, also. Glad to see I'm not the only one.

Barry Windham gets a lot of praise here but I really dislike the guy as a worker. Won't be touching my list. I change my mind on Lawler way too often. Not sure if he'll land on my ballot. Same with Bret Hart. I can never tell if I like him or not. I'm also not including joshi on my ballot. It's a style that I'll either love or hate, but I don't want to take the risk and dive into something and either not finish all the joshi I want to before deadline or neglect other projects because I fall in love with joshi.

I mean, I have 10 Dragon System wrestlers on my list right now. People *might* have CIMA or Mochizuki on their list, but I think Alan and I are the only one's even considering Mochi for our Top 10 and people like Shingo, YAMATO, and Masato Yoshino probably haven't even been considered for a moment by most people. I'm on the fence about Homicide right now. From 2003-2006, he was constantly one of the highlights for ROH, but even with that super high peak, I'm having trouble justifying him being on my list. I want to include him and as of now he just barely sneaks on my ballot, but he could bounce soon. I'm also incredibly high on Austin Aries and I don't think most people are voting for him. What about The Briscoes? Both guys are ranked pretty highly by me. Not sure what the general consensus is here for those guys.

Finding room on my list for him. Towards the bottom, but he'll be on there. One of the few ECW workers that I really enjoy and I dig his FMW run enough to find a spot for him.