supremebve

I think the biggest strength and weakness for Flair in the Greatest Wrestler Ever project is that we've all seen so much Flair footage. We've seen so much Flair that it is easy to praise him as the best, because we've seen so many classic matches. It is equally to call him overrated, because we've seen him wrestle his broomstick matches so many times. It is almost unfair to compare him to anyone else. Flair wrestled damn near everyone from damn near everywhere, and a whole shitload of it is on tape. While I see him as someone who consistently put on good to great matches for 15-20 years, I can see why someone could be bored as hell watching some of his matches. I love Flair. I love his matches, his promos, his character, and just what he means to wrestling. He's no doubt in my top 5 all time, but it is very hard for me to get excited about a new Flair match. I'm much more excited to watch a new Jumbo Tsuruta match that I've never seen, I'd much rather rewatch a big AJPW match from the 90s than a big Flair match from the 80s, but I don't really think that is Flair's fault. I can't hold it against Flair that he's basically been the most visible wrestler of my life. I grew up on Flair, I watched him as a kid, a teenager, and an adult. I've rewatched his matches with Steamboat, Funk, Luger, Windham, and Sting probably 20-30 times each. It is so easy to pick him apart, but I honestly think it is because everything he does is so familiar. This is one of those how many times can you eat the same meal before you start hating it situations. It isn't the chicken's fault you've eaten it hundreds of times, but it doesn't mean you haven't grown to dislike it either.

My advice, don't give a single solitary fuck about what anyone else thinks, and just submit your ballot. If you want to rank the Brooklyn Brawler #1, because you think he's legitimately the best ever don't let anyone tell you different. You aren't voting for president, you are voting for what wrestlers you think are the best.

I'm still debating whether or not to submit a ballot, but it isn't because I don't think I've watched enough wrestling. We are the wrestling 1%. Sure I have some huge blindspots. I haven't watched much lucha, I've just started watching joshi, and I'm generally unaware of anything going on in the territories before WWF/WCW went national. With that said, I've watched hundreds of hours of wrestling, to the point that it is hard for me to have a serious conversation with people who have only watched WWE/WCW/ECW. I'm currently trying to watch every four star match ever(yep, it is overwhelming), and if I don't submit a ballot it will be because I'm too overwhelmed to narrow it down. As of now, I don't know how to properly rank, Flair, Jumbo, Misawa, Kawada, Liger, Guerrero, Benoit, Savage, Mysterio...That doesn't even include the wrestlers that I've recently become favorites like Hansen, Kikuchi(I'm potentially the high vote), and Bull Nakano. I'm going to try to keep the gwe ballot in mind while I'm going through my personal project, but I make no promises. Honestly, I'm looking forward to see where this goes. I think everyone here is more than qualified to submit a ballot, because no one else on the planet cares about wrestling more than us. This board is full of people who care about wrestling more than most people care about anything. If you are here, you care about wrestling in a way that your opinion matters. You wouldn't be here otherwise.

I see what you're saying, except I don't think paying off storylines should be considered fan service. That is kind of what every wrestling promotion should do. That is like saying my beloved Cleveland Browns provided fan service, by actually scoring a touchdown. They are supposed to score touchdowns, that is kind of the point. That doesn't really make them special. Raw/Smackdown not paying off their angles is a huge issue, but I'm not going to give NXT extra credit, because they actually do what they're supposed to do. The difference between Raw/Smackdown and NXT is that they have different goals. The narrative that goes along with the journey into and out of NXT is what makes it special, Raw/Smackdown's failures do not.

I'm not sure that's what makes it special. My impression--and I'm not a weekly watcher so not the best qualified person to assess this--is that a lot of people like it because it's a straightforward wrestling show. I don't see the curtain call as a big deal one way or another. But what's special is that NXT bothered to build female stars and booked them into logical feuds with well-executed payoffs. Throw in too much Steph and Trips and that back-to-basics efficiency feels a little imperiled. The straightforward wrestling show part is a huge part of the appeal of it, but it isn't what makes these Takeover shows special. These Takeover shows are pure fan service. The only reason NXT has grown to the heights it has is because their hardcore fans latched on to NXT on Hulu. Those fans aren't the typical Raw/Smackdown fans. The people who pushed this thing to the current level are the type of people who would appreciate a peek behind the curtain. They are wrestling fans who decided to watch a developmental territory to the point that there was enough demand to actually put on these Takeover shows. I paid for Hulu for over a year to be able to watch NXT every week. I would have been fine if there was never a Takeover, I was going to pay to watch their television any way. NXT's core audience understands what kayfabe is, and understands its place in wrestling. We know that this is a stepping stone territory, that is why we started watching it to begin with. The goal of NXT is to do well and move on. The breaking kayfabe/backstage stuff is an acknowledgement that those characters have reached the pinnacle and are ready to move forward.

I don't know if they're making us the target audience, or that the audience is more like us than we give it credit for. My point is if the people who love wrestling the most don't mind it, why would the people who love it less care at all? The people most invested in wrestling aren't turned off by the fact that we know it's just show business. NXT is the product for their most hardcore fans. You have to have the network to watch it, and it is a developmental territory. I honestly think that the curtain call/backstage stuff is what makes NXT special. We are in on the joke. It is the only WWE product that doesn't talk down to the audience.

I don't really know how shaky the ground is though. This board is full of people who absolutely love wrestling, and we all know how the sausage is made. I don't know if any of the curtain call/backstage stuff actually hurts the product. Does anyone here really like wrestling less, because we know that these people don't really hate each other? We know these people are characters, and we like it any way. We already separate what is real and what is kayfabe, it isn't like the breaking of kayfabe is opening a door into a world we didn't know exists. We spend all day posting about that world, and I'd argue that we are probably bigger fans because of it.

I personally don't mind the kayfabe breaking stuff in NXT, because it is kind of what makes NXT charming. We know that these are people trying to make a name for themselves in the business. We are kind of watching a show that we don't necessarily need to see. The fact that these guys and girls are so good that there is a demand to watch them is kind of outside of the actual purpose of what we are watching. The entire goal of NXT is for the wrestlers to get over to the point that they are called up to the main show. We know that this is a product that is more of an extended rehearsal than opening night at the show. Sasha and Bayley being happy that they nailed their performance is kind of the reaction someone would have when they nailed an audition. Is Sasha disappointed she lost? Yes, but in the world that NXT exists putting on a great performance means just as much. Winning the championship is a goal, it just isn't the only goal.

12/7/88 - Midnight Express vs. Flair/Windham (NWA) **** So in 1988 all but one match that Dave Meltzer ranked at **** or better featured Ric Flair or the Midnight Express, so I'm going to go out on a limb and say those guys were really good. After the introductions Jim Ross states that this is a match between the 2 best singles wrestlers and the best tag team in the world, and in 1988 that may very well be true. All of these dudes are at their peak and this has the potential to be spectacular. Flair and Windham are the heels here and the match starts off with the Midnights kicking some ass. Flair and Windham hold the two most prestigious titles in the company and they're getting the shit kicked out of them by a tag team, I can't imagine this happening in modern wrestling. They show a really good Paul E. promo during this match hyping the Starrcade match between his Original Midnight Express and Cornette's New Midnight Express. He was a damn good promo 25 years ago, and he's only gotten better. Flair and Windham take over and Windham puts the beatdown on Beautiful Bobby. Hot tag to Sweet Stan, and he's the proverbial house afire with the world's most ridiculous karate kicks. Stan Lane has special educated feet. The match breaks down and the Midnight Express are kicking the shit out of Flair and Windham. J.J. Dillon takes off his shoe to throw to Windham, but Cornette hits him with the racket. Eaton hits Windham with the Alabama Jam, but Flair grabs the shoe and hit's Bobby in the head for the tainted win. This was good, but it seemed more like an exhibition to set up Starrcade than a serious match with any real stakes. **** is about as good of a rating you can give this match, but these guys were capable of much more. 1/28/86 - Tenryu/Tsuruta vs. Choshu/Yatsu (AJPW) ***** So I couldn't find this on its own, but I found it on Toukon Retsuden - 6-23-2000 Jumbo Tsuruta Memorial Show on YouTube along with a couple other matches. The guys overdub the match with their own commentary that adds background, but kind of drowns out the crowd noise. This is my first exposure to Tsuruta, Choshu, and Yatsu, so I appreciate the extra information about the competitors, but these guys are clearly not professional broadcasters so I'll have to take the good with the bad. Tenryu and Tsuruta are the AJPW veterans, and Choshu and Yatsu are invaders from the land of NJPW. Tenryu and Tsuruta don't like these jerks thinking they can come in and take their spot so they decide they are going to give them a well deserved ass kicking. Choshu and Yatsu give no fucks about their feelings and take over early. Our commentators give some good background on Japanese wrestling where they rank the most important figures in Japanese wrestling. They rank Rikodozan, Giant Baba, and Antonio Inoki as the most important Japanese wrestlers ever. They then rank Tsuruta because of his AWA championship run, Tenryu for being the only guy who has a pinfall on both Baba and Inoki, and then Choshu and/or Fujinami. This was a pretty good match with everyone putting in really good work, but it ends in a time limit draw. Choshu and Yatsu had most of the offense, which I'm sure was to build up heat for the blow off, but that was 30 years ago, and I don't have access to the rematch so I can't justify this getting ***** despite the fact that it is really good. So since I started doing this with little or no thought on how I was actually going to analyze these matches they'll probably be different every single time. Some of these matches, such as the one above, I'm going to have very little background on and because of that I'll probably judge them differently than some of the American matches I remember from my childhood. The above match was a really good wrestling match that I didn't have any emotional connection with because of how little I knew about the workers in the match. If I'm going to call something *****, at some point I'm going to have to be pulling for someone to win, or lose, or feel some sort of investment. It doesn't necessarily mean something is wrong with the match, the workers, or anything else. 6/5/89 - Tsuruta vs. Tenryu (AJPW) ***** This is on the same Toukon Retsuden episode as the above match. This starts off fast with Tsuruta going for the flying knee and Tenryu dodging and hitting a bridging German suplex. These guys seem not to like each other very much, and Tenryu looks like a fully formed grump. Jumbo is in control early working a cobra clutch and wearing Tenryu down. OK, so in a move that surprised the living shit out of me, Tenryu knocks Tsuruta out of the ring, cartwheels over the turnbuckle, runs down the apron and hits a plancha on Jumbo. I've seen a decent amount of Tenryu and I expect chops, punches, diving elbows, and brainbusters. I do NOT expect crazy planchas. Tenryu decides he's going to just kick the shit out of Jumbo with mounted forearms. He probably should have stuck with that strategy because as soon as they got back on their feet Jumbo hits a counter belly-to-belly. Jumbo's strategy is based on grounding Tenryu with wrestling holds, and Tenryu's strategy is based on big strikes. Tenryu's strategy proves ineffective because the bigger Jumbo decides he's not having any of Tenryu's shit and hits him with a nasty flying knee in the corner. Jumbo is killing Tenryu, but Jumbo keeps covering him too close to the ropes. Jumbo hits three knee drops from the second rope and Tenryu still gets a foot on the ropes. Jumbo hits a Theisz press for 2.999999 and Jumbo hits him with a knee drop to the back of Tenryu's head. Jumbo hits a backdrop and still can't hold down Tenryu. Jumbo goes for another Theisz press, but Tenryu catches him and hits him with a hot shot. Jumbo hits a dropkick and goes to the top rope and hits a kneedrop to a standing Tenryu. Jumbo charges with a high knee but misses, and Tenryu hits a lariat. Jumbo has pulled out all the stops, but can't put Tenryu out. Tenryu misses a diving elbow and Jumbo still can't get the pin. Tenryu hits an enziguri and two powerbombs, and gets the pinfall. This is great. This is kind of the opposite of the first match as far as emotion goes. I really got into this one, Tenryu took a hell of a beating, but kept fighting to stay in the match. Jumbo hit him with everything he had, but kept making mistakes like pinning him too close to the ropes and going to the well once too often with those high knees. Eventually Jumbo made one mistake too many and Tenryu was able to recover enough to get the win in a hard fought, great match. This was ***** in my mind, and right up there with the Flair/Steamboat matches. 1989 was a great year for wrestling. 11/15/89 - Flair vs. Funk (NWA) ***** I'm a huge fan of hip-hop, MMA, and pro wrestling, and all three things can be pretty alienating. People either love these things or tend to be extremely closed minded about them. They just assume that all hip-hop is violent and misogynistic, all MMA are violent blood baths being fought by bar room brawlers, and wrestling is nothing but muscled up rednecks fake fighting. Every now and then someone will show interest in one of them and I have to try to find an accessible, yet good example of one of these things to prove that when done right all of these things are great. This match is on the list. Everyone, no matter who they are or where they are from will be entertained by this match. It is a simple story of two guys fighting for the respect of the other and they are going to fight tooth and nail until they get it. Funk is at his middle-aged and crazy best here throwing that beautiful left hand straight to Flair's forehead and generally behaving like the world's drunkest uncle. Flair is at his babyface best here, selling every Funk left like a knockout blow, and showing great fire with has absolutely brutal looking (in a good way) chops. These guys beat the living shit out of each other, they lay in every strike, and bump like madmen to get the other guy over. These are two of the best who ever did it, doing it as good as they've ever done it. *****is absolutely warranted. 7/23/89 - Flair vs. Funk (NWA) ****1/2 I'm just going to copy and paste this from my review of Great American Bash '89 I did in the Network version of this thread for the next couple matches. Terry Funk is as good at acting like the craziest son of a bitch alive as anyone in the history of wrestling. Ric Flair was unable to have a bad match in 1989, he could have wrestled a bucket of water to something great at this point. Ric Flair comes out with four women and before the bell can ring Flair goes after Funk and this is going to be a fight. Funk was already calling himself middle-aged and crazy in 1989, and they are stiffing the shit out of each other from the start. Flair is working over Funk's neck, doing a couple of neck cranks followed by a couple of jumping knees and a couple of piledrivers. Funk is doing his writhing around like he is having a seizure selling, and eventually falls out of the ring. Flair is just taking it to Funk at this point, hitting him with slaps, punches, and a jumping elbow before locking in the figure four. Gary Hart distracts the referee and Funk hits Flair in the face with a branding iron, and Flair is busted wide open. Funk hits a piledriver on Flair's injured neck, that could have been the end but Flair gets his foot under the rope. Funk is exposing the concrete floor, and choking Flair with his wrist tape. Funk goes for a piledriver on the concrete, but Flair counters with a back body drop. Flair is really selling the neck, and is losing a lot of blood. Funk with a series of neckbreakers, and Funk is in the driver's seat. Funk is telling Flair to just say he quits, which is setting up something…oh just one of the best matches of all-time. Flair gets the branding iron and now Terry Funk is wearing a crimson mask, and Flair is done wrestling and he is just throwing lefts and rights. Flair charges in the corner and misses a jumping knee and Funk hooks in a spinning toe hold. Flair counters and tries to hook in a figure four, but Funk counters into a small package. Flair counters and gets the 1,2,3. Out comes Muta who spits the green mist in Flair's eyes and they lay a beatdown on Flair. Out comes Sting and there is a huge brawl that ends with Sting and Flair standing tall in the ring. Terry Funk is just wandering around the crowd like a crazy person and throws a chair at Flair. The brawl is back on and Sting and Flair chase Funk and Muta back down the aisle. This was awesome, and oh shit, they are brawling again after Jim Ross was trying to wrap the show up. Ross' voice is just about gone and Sting is choking Muta with a velvet rope. This is how you sell a blood feud, these guys just want to fight. Flair with Ross for an interview, and he isn't subdued this time. Flair tells Terry Funk that they are just getting started, and he has barely broken a sweat, and before they are done, Flair is going to wear his Texas ass out. This was outstanding, I need to find that I quit match, and a cigarette, that was insane. ****1/4 seems about right, but this was fucking insanely fun to watch. 7/23/89 - Luger vs. Steamboat (NWA) ****1/4 Ricky is being carried out to the ring carrying a Komodo dragon in a motorcycle jacket. I don't understand why he agreed to be carried out to the ring while standing on a 2x6 and carrying a wild animal, but he did it and somehow didn't get mauled or fall off, which is pretty impressive. 1989 was probably the best year for both of these guys, and I expect this to be good. Lex takes exception to this being a no DQ match for some reason, but it seems like a no DQ would be in his advantage. Steamboat's chops are about as stiff as they come here, he is just lighting Lex's chest on fire. Lex takes over and hits three big clotheslines, causing Ricky to blindly swing punches in the air just to try to defend himself. Luger flexes and heels it up before Steamboat lays in some more really hard chops. Lex cuts him off with a big right hand as the ref tries to stop Steamboat from pounding Lex in the corner. This is a really good old school big guy little guy match, except that the big guy is quicker than most and the little guy is stronger than most. Steamboat makes a comeback and charges Lex who is reeling on the ropes. Luger back body drops him from one ring to another, before going to ringside to get a chair. Steamboat counters with a slingshot into the turnbuckle. Steamboat takes the chair and beats Lex all the way down the aisle and backstage and Lex gets the DQ win. This was awesome, both guys were at their best, and they worked their asses off here. ****1/4 is about the right rating for this match. I can't help but think that this could have been better, but I have the Steamboat/Flair series fresh on my mind. Once again, don't believe the Luger was never good hype.(I need to watch this again, because I bet I'd rate this higher now.) 7/23/89 - Road Warriors/Midnight Express/Williams vs. Freebirds/Samoan Swat Team - War Games (NWA) **** The Road Warriors come out on motorcycles to IRONMAN, how they didn't overdub that with something inferior I don't know. I know this is probably going to get my wrestling fan card taken away, but I have never seen a War Games mtach. Bobby Eaton and Jimmy Garvin start, and they seem to be fighting for the right to have the world's worst haircut. Terry Gordy in next, and the battle for the worst hair continues. Dr. Death in next and him and Gordy square off. Dr. Death's military presses Gordy eight times into the roof of the cage in an absurd feat of strength. Samu in next, followed by Animal who comes in and cleans house on the heels. Animal hits a tope over the top rope of one ring into the second ring which was really impressive for a guy his size. Fatu in next, and he is about 200 lbs. lighter here than he was when he became Rikishi. Dr. Death and Terry Gordy seem to be having a singles match in one of the rings, while the rest of the guys brawl in the other. Stan Lane in next and he is a house of fire. Paul E. and Michael Hayes are outside strategizing, which concludes with Michael Hayes saying, "So I have to go in? Damn." Michale Hayes gets in and DDTs every single one of the faces before going into the other ring and strutting around like an idiot. He is one of the most ridiculous people in the history of the world, what would he do if he wasn't a wrestler? I honestly don't think Dr. Death and Terry Gordy realize they are allowed to hit other people. Hawk in and immediately hits a diving double clothesline before running from ring to ring kicking ass and taking names. Hawk then hits his own tope from one ring to the other and everyone is now in the double cage. The Road Warriors go for a Doomsday Device on Terry Gordy, but Garvin breaks it up, which gets him killed with a top rope lariat. Hawk then hits him with a series of neckbreakers before putting him in a hangman for the submission. This was just a wild brawl that was hard to recap here, but was fucking awesome. **** is right on the money here, just watch the '89 Bash.

Can I piggyback and say any tope where the only contact made is with the hands.

I don't know what is worse, the fact that you wrote that much about a PN News match or the fact that I read it and thought, "I should watch that when I get home." We are fucking nerds.

I have to admit to not watching a single Cannonball Grizzly match, but being annoyed because people aren't taking the work of "The Wrestler Formerly Known as PN News" seriously is possibly the funniest thing I've ever read. It would basically like if someone told me that I'm too lazy and/or shallow, because I didn't let my venereal disease last long enough to get used to the burning sensation. He could have turned into the second coming of Jumbo Tsuruta, but I can't possibly blame anyone for not giving that dude a second chance.

Yeah, that is kind of my point with Toyota(except the Flair part). I'd advise you watch some of the other highly touted Joshi wrestlers to get a feel for the variations in the style, before you watch a crazy Toyota match. Once you see how some of the other women work, her style kind of makes more sense. Bull Nakano and Aja Kong are great as the monsters. Kansai and Hotta bring the stiff strikes and suplexes. Hokuto and Oz are great at being just mean, tough, chicks who don't give a fuck. Toyota's style is almost like the only way a woman with her size and demeanor could possibly contend with these other workers. She has to hit hard and fast, over and over again or the rest of those women will beat her within an inch of her life. My biggest issue with Toyota is that she doesn't sell anything long term. You could hit her with a superplex off of the hell in a cell onto an exploding bed of nails, and she'd get up and hit a series of running dropkicks like nothing happened. Her matches have a low ceiling for me, because of her lack of selling, but they aren't necessarily bad.

My advice is don't start with Manami Toyota. She is the first person who I heard about, and almost wrote off Joshi as a style, because of her go go go style. I figured if she was the best Joshi wrestler, I wasn't going to enjoy the style. She is probably my least favorite Joshi wrestlers in singles matches, but she far more tolerable in tags. If I could go back again I'd start with some Bull Nakano. The Hotta cage match from 1/23/91 or the Hokuto match from 1/4/91 are a couple of my favorites.

I didn't read every post, but I skimmed through every page. How did I not see anyone nominate PN News. Is there a single good PN News match? He should also get bonus points for also being in contention for worst rapper ever.

I forgot all about that kid who got caned for spray painting cars. That was a huge story when I was in middle school. The disconnect is probably my knowledge that it is a practice sword, not that it isn't an actual cane. One thing to the kendo stick's credit is that it makes a great sound. I never got the point of the fork either. If you are in the silverware drawer why not grab a knife, they are right next to each other.

The prosthetic leg is one of the best ever, no way is that one dumb. It was a weapon of opportunity, it would probably hurt, and it is a prosthetic leg...what is dumb about that? The Sledgehammer is the absolute worst, especially when someone kicks out of a sledgehammer shot. Either the person getting hit with the hammer is invincible or the person swinging it is a weakling. Jake is 100% correct. I never understood why the Singapore cane became the weapon du jour. It is basically a training weapon that is made not to really hurt that much, but then again maybe I'm over thinking it.

Do we have to wait until you guys finish to get the list? I have a pretty slow weekend coming up, and you guys have already named a bunch of matches I'm interested in, but I haven't really had the opportunity to write them down.

Not a good exemple though. Onita was a much bigger star in Japan than Randy Orton ever was or will ever be in the US. And FMW was not a marginal promotion by any means. When you pack 40.000 people in the Kawasaki Stadium without strong TV (or any TV at all for most of the original Onita run), you're not what I'd call marginal. Onita isn't the Sandman. You are supporting my point more than disputing it. Onita was hugely popular to Japanese fans, but why would Randy Orton be expected to know who he is? Jaguar Yokota not knowing Sandman, is the same because Sandman means something to a group of American fans, that I don't have any reason to believe would translate to Japanese fans. Onita means someting to a very large group of Japanese fans, much bigger than Sandman, but there is no reason to believe that the average American knows anything about him.

Andre the Giant vs. Stan Hansen (9/23/81) This is a match I’ve always heard was great, but I somehow never got around to watching. Stan Hansen is someone I’ve become a huge fan of, but the only Andre I’ve ever watched has been in the WWF. This Andre is a completely different person. The first thing that stands out to me is his mobility. The Andre I remember didn’t run the ropes, he kind of just hung onto the ropes, because he couldn’t really move. The Andre I remember damn sure didn’t work holds, like he is here. Andre the Giant, is working over Hansen’s arm like a long lost Anderson cousin. Hansen, who wouldn’t back down from a fight with a Minotaur, comes off as a huge bad ass in this match. Andre is bigger, Andre is stronger, but Andre does not want to let this match turn into a brawl. Hansen is in control whenever he can square up and tee off on Andre, but Andre can always go back to the arm to cut Hansen off. I really expected this match to be a wild and crazy brawl, which it does turn into, but it is a very smartly worked match. Hansen’s biggest strength as a wrestler is the fact that he is a rough, tough, brawler. His biggest weapon is the Western Lariat, so why not work over his left arm. If you were writing up a gameplan to beat Stan Hansen, working holds on his left arm would be the smartest strategy. It takes away his ability to brawl, while making his biggest weapon less potent. Hansen, on the other hand, has to keep hitting Andre with stiff punches, elbows, and chops, while always being aware of Andre’s massive strength. There is a false finish when Hansen body slams Andre, and Andre rolls out of the ring. Hansen goes after him, and they are both counted out. Hansen, Andre, and the crowd all want the match to continue, so the referee restarts the match. Hansen takes it to Andre to start, before Andre cuts him off and unties the turnbuckle pad. Hansen blocks and sends Andre’s head into the exposed turnbuckle. Hansen comes of the ropes to drop a big elbow, but Andre catches his arm and locks in a top wrist lock. Hansen fights free, ducks a big boot, and hits a Western Lariat that knocks Andre completely out of the ring. Andre, while on the outside puts on a Hansen style elbow pad and is ready to knock Hansen’s block off. The referee tries to stop him and Andre hits the ref with a lariat and gets disqualified. Andre and Hansen brawl for a bit before the young boys around ringside step in to break it up. This was a great match, and the only real flaw is that it had to end without either guy taking a pin. Andre is probably the most protected wrestler in the world at this time, and Hansen is probably the most protected wrestler in Japan, neither man was going to lose this match. I fully understand the finish, so I won’t really hold it against them I’m going to give this ****3/4. Magnum TA vs Tully Blanchard (I Quit Cage, NWA 11/28/85) So either Dave Meltzer never gave this match a star rating, or the list I have is incomplete. With that said, if you are any type of wrestling fan no one should have to tell you that this is an all-time classic match. Magnum TA should teach a class at the performance center on ring presence. He might as well be the Marlboro Man, he just radiates masculinity. You know how people are talking about guys they wouldn’t want to run into in a dark alley? You think of the meanest, biggest, toughest, scariest looking motherfucker on the planet and think I’d never want to run into him. Well that same big, mean, tough motherfucker has nightmares about running into Magnum TA in a dark alley. He is probably the best example of bad ass babyface, at least until Steve Austin comes around. The difference between Magnum and Austin is that there isn’t anything edgy about Magnum, he is a hell of a good guy, but you don’t want to cross him. Tully is almost the polar opposite of Magnum. Tully couldn’t play the hero if he tried, there are port-o-pottys that don’t radiate asshole as much as Tully Blanchard. So basically this is the story of the kid at school who everyone hates, picking a fight with the kid everyone likes. Except at this school they don’t just fight by the flag pole they erect a cage so kids can mutilate each other for the entertainment of the schoolyard. This is a bloody, viscous, fight that feels like it is going a little too far for it to be a work. The match starts with them just rolling on the ground trying to claw and choke at each other and ends when Magnum jabs a pointed shard of broken chair into Tully’s face. When people find out that you are a wrestling fan, they always ask the same stupid question, “You do know it’s fake right?” Yes dipshit, we all know it is fake. The beauty of the art form comes in matches like this, that allow you to suspend your disbelief for a bit and it feels like you are watching something real. This is probably the best cage match of all-time. This is also most likely the best I Quit match of all-time. Matter of fact, this is on the shortlist of best US matches of all-time. This is required watching for and all wrestling fans *****. Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Dynamite Kid (WWF Junior Title) (2/5/80) Once again I’ve decided to delve into the career of Tatsumi Fujinami, and once again I’m impressed with his work. The thing that stands out in this match is how different it is from the Ryuma Go match. The Go match is fought on the mat for almost the entire match, but Dynamite is much more about high impact offense. Dynamite brings the punches, headbutts, and suplexes, and Fujinami counters with cat quick arm drags and a couple of the best looking sunset flips I’ve ever seen. There are some guys like Tenryu, who you watch and think that crisp execution is overrated, but then you watch Fujinami and realize how vital execution can be in a wrestling match. This is a match that is built around the fact that Dynamite can beat Fujinami if the match turns into a fight, but Fujinami’s quickness and execution can instantly turn the match to his favor. Dynamite takes 80% of the offense in this match, but everything Fujinami does leads to a near fall. It works, because Fujinami executes his moves in a way that makes the near fall reasonable. If those sunset flips didn’t snap Dynamite over so quickly, I don’t know if I would have bought them as legit pinning predicaments. If this were an MMA fight Dynamite would be the ground and pound specialist who keeps getting takedowns and dropping elbows until his opponent can’t defend himself any more. If he’s going to win he’s going to keep hitting you with high impact moves until you can’t take any more punishment. Fujinami on the other hand is like the slick submission grappler who will take advantage of your every mistake and can win a match instantly. The match ends with Fujinami hitting a drop toehold and turning it into a bridging roll up. It perfectly fit the story of the match and what would look like a fluke roll up 90% of the time, in this instance it felt totally earned. This is just super crisp, rock solid wrestling that is really hard to nitpick. If I had one complaint it would be that it didn’t really feel like they ever hit second gear. They started off fairly hot, stayed consistent, but didn’t really ever hit another level. If Fujinami would have had a comeback where he could have shown some of his babyface fire (it is there, I can see it), this match could have gone from very good to great. ****1/4 12/16/88 - Tenryu/Kawada vs. Hansen/Gordy (AJPW) ***** Young Kawada wearing the half leopard print pants is a little disconcerting, I was fine living in a world where Kawada was the baddest mother fucker alive. Gordy and Hansen are just big rough tough gaijin here, they have at least a 50 pound weight advantage on both guys and I'm probably low balling that. With that said, Kawada and Tenryu wouldn't give a fuck if it was a 500 pound difference because they're going to chop and kick the shit out of them any way. I was under the mistaken notion that Tenryu became grumpy as he became an old man, but he was that crazy brand of I'll slap the shit out of you grumpy here in 1988. This match is basically two big ass Americans came to destroy the Japanese heroes, but the Japanese heroes aren't going to go out without a fight. Hansen and Gordy take out Kawada's knee and leave him laying on the floor as they beat the living hell out of Tenryu. Every once in a while Tenryu will make a comeback only to have the Americans double team him to cut him off. After they put a sufficient ass whooping on Tenryu, Kawada will recover enough to make a save or distract one of the Americans. Either way Kawada's knee injury puts the Japanese team at a huge disadvantage. Tenryu makes one last comeback hitting an enziguri, a diving elbow, and a powerbomb on Hansen, but Gordy comes in and powerbombs Tenryu which sets him up for a Hansen lariat for the win. This was a damn good match that made Hansen and Gordy look unstoppable, but leaving the fans with enough hope that if their heroes can come back healthy maybe they can get the win. This is really good, but I don't know if it deserves the full *****. It is a good match with a hot crowd that keeps everything interesting, but it lacked that little bit of extra that separates a great match from an all-time classic. 3/27/88 - Midnight Express vs. Fantastics (NWA) ****1/4 This is from Clash of the Champions I and I think this project is about to get easier/harder because most of the American matches going forward are going to be on the Network. I should have thought about how many damn matches I'm going to have to watch…maybe I'll just write about matches I've either ever seen or want to revisit. That will narrow it down to about 5641984651891965108 matches. The Network really needs to add markers to a lot of these old NWA/WCW shows so I can skip right to the matches I want. This match is all types of fun and well worth the ****1/4, but I'm not going to talk about that, I'm going to talk about the biggest flaw in the southern tag team formula. The entire southern tag team formula relies 100% on the face team being either stupid or terrible at being a tag team. I've never watched the face team win one of these matches and thought that they were the best team. The heels know how to cut the ring off, how to distract the ref in order to use double team moves, and how to separate a wrestler from his partner in order to punish him for the win. All the face team knows how to do is be overly emotional and get their ass kicked. So from now on I think as a people we should rise up and root for the heels. Oh one thing to note about this match, they do a couple of spots on a table that is laying on the concrete floor, and they pan to the audience and people look like they fear for the Fantastic's lives...the table didn't even break. It is just a wooden table laying on a concrete floor. The table is a much better alternative than the floor right? Why are these people acting like poor Tommy Rodgers is dead? 3/27/88 - Flair vs. Sting (NWA) ****3/4 This is the match from the first Clash of the Champions, and from an era where Ric Flair could have wrestled a **** match with Hornswaggle or Kelly Kelly. Sting is the young lion getting his first shot at the gold and the crowd is all the way behind him. They have judges for this bout including such luminaries as the Pentouse Pet of the year, Eddie Haskell, and Jason Hervey…why are any of these people qualified to judge a professional sporting event? Flair is at his absolute peak here and Sting has the perfect combination of athleticism and strength that allows Flair to use his complete arsenal of heel tricks. He can bump around like a freak, beg off like a coward, and cheat like the scoundrel we all know he is. Sting spends the first 20 or so minutes of this match looking unbeatable, and the crowd is absolutely certain that they are going to see their hero crowned champion. Flair takes over destroys Sting's leg and locks on a figure four, Sting reverses the pressure and Flair goes into desperation mode. He gets some offense in and decides it is time to go to the top rope, and believe it or not, it is a huge mistake. Sting takes over and now we are in the home stretch, and Sting is doing everything he can to finish the champion off. Flair takes another pretty bad ass kicking until Sting misses a Stinger splash and Flair locks in a sleeper. The time keeper announces 2 minutes remain and Flair is begging off and trying to make this a race against the clock. Flair chops Sting, and Sting no sells and Flair is getting desperate. Sting hits the Stinger Splash and locks in the Scorpion Death Lock with 30 seconds to go. Flair refuses to give up and the 45 minute TV time limit expires, and the match goes to the judges. 2 for Flair, 2 for Sting, and one for a draw. This would have got the full ***** from me, it is basically everything you'd want from a match with an established champion and an upstart babyface. Sting now looks like a future champion and Flair got his heat back by not giving up when locked in the Scorpion Death Lock. 12/26/88 - Flair vs. Luger (NWA) ****1/2 I have a feeling I'm going to be watching a shitload of Flair, and I have to say it's probably going to be pretty fun. Luger is apparently down to 262 from 275, because of his diet. He looks like he's on a juice diet. Flair is the man, and Luger gets thrown under the bus a lot, but Luger was fucking good in 1988 and I won't hear anything different. He was limited no doubt, but he was limited to looking like a monster who could beat the shit out of god himself. Flair is at his best working against guys that have the physical advantage. His entire character is that of the smarter, craftier, willing to do whatever it takes wrestler. He isn't going to lose to any average guy, he's too smart for that. It's going to take someone who is truly special, someone who can overcome all of his tricks and overcome his tactics with brute force. Flair uses his smarts and technical prowess to take control, but eventually, Luger's power allows him to take over. These guys have such a great chemistry because their roles are so perfectly defined. They are essentially evenly matched, and it's going to come down to who can take advantage when the other makes a mistake. Flair destroys Luger's knee and goes after his leg like a rabid dog. Luger fights back and eventually puts Flair in the torture rack, but his knee is so hurt he collapses and Flair uses the ropes to get the win. Once again Flair puts on a classic and gets a win that makes his opponent look better in a loss than they would have in a win. I honestly think some of these Flair matches get downgraded because there are so many great ones. Let's just say if you give 1988 Flair at least 20 minutes with a competent wrestler you'll get at least ****.

If Atsushi Onita walked up to Randy Orton and told him, "I'm a huge fan," would Randy Orton know who he was? That is kind of what we're talking about, a star from a beloved but marginal wrestling company from halfway across the world saying hello to someone who could have very easily been a huge wrestling fan without ever encountering the other. Sandman only really means something to ECW diehards, who I can assume exist in Japan, but there is no way they are a large part of the population. If she didn't know Hulk Hogan or Steve Austin I'd get it, but Sandman is someone she very easily could have missed, unless she was actively seeking out ECW. Honestly, I watched maybe 15-20 Sandman matches, because I didn't have access to ECW TV until TNN. His entrance was great, but after you watch one or two Sandman matches, you've kind of seen them all. We aren't talking about the American version of Jushin Liger or Mitsuharu Misawa who became world renown because of their classic matches. We're talking about a guy who was only popular to a small portion of wrestling fans in his native country, because of his attitude/gimmick which very well could not translate to a foreign audience.

I think I like wrestling, because it is everything I like about sports without all the self righteousness. No one really cares if you play the game the right way, people are actually beloved for playing the game the wrong way. Wrestlers get to do interviews where they don't just spout off cliches, I really wish Tom Brady would cut a promo on Roger Goodell right now. No one pretends that wrestling means anything more than a way to pass the time and enjoy yourself. Basically, I like wrestling, because fun is the number one goal. It is seemingly the only "sport" that doesn't try to pretend that what they are doing is serious business. Rick Rude didn't get penalized, because he swiveled his hips around. People cheered Steve Austin for giving people the bird. Ric Flair blatantly hit people with low blows and then strutted around like an asshole, and we all love him for it.

I agree the Diamond Cutter was very instrumental in putting DDP over the hump. It wasn't just the Diamond Cutter, but the way it was protected and how he kept finding new variations. The move was only as over as it was, because he kept finding new was to keep it over. As much as the WWE tries to push the RKO as better than the Diamond Cutter it is just piggybacking off of Page making it what I believe to be the most over finisher of all time. The ironic thing about this entire DDP tangent, is that Johnny Ace was the wrestler who popularized the finisher that made DDP a main eventer.

The damning thing is that there's really not all that much new information that led to today's indictment (although that's not the way the DA spun it). The forensic information was there (although not public record). Snuka's rapidly changing story was known. If they didn't discover during their first investigation that Snuka had been arrested for attacking Nancy in a hotel room a few months earlier, then that would be shockingly bad police work. I don't know why you don't believe that this is just police work. The first time I heard about this story was probably 10 years or so ago and wasn't really all that surprised he didn't get arrested. This is kind of just how these type of cases work. The police don't really do as much investigating as people think. If there is a reason for them to stop looking into a case, they generally just move on to something else. The only reason people think that the cops are out here solving crimes is television. In the real world they kind of just arrest the first suspect, if they don't feel like they'll get a conviction they just kind of drop it and move on. That is why the vast majority of people in prison are there on petty drug crimes, it is easy to prove you caught someone with a bag of weed, but if there isn't a witness to a murder it is hard to prove someone killed someone. The cops get to act like they're fighting crime and the people get to pretend that they're safe, but in reality the vast majority of violent crimes don't lead to a conviction. That doesn't even take into consideration that a lot of crimes aren't even counted. This woman's death was never even officially ruled an accident or a homicide. As far as the law was concerned she died of natural causes. Jimmy Snuka most likely killed that woman, but since no one really bothered to investigate he was never charged with anything. They actually did investigate it. The presentment walks through the evidence that was there at the time. The inconsistencies from one day to the next, along with the number of different witnesses he made statements to, is pretty much what they're looking for if they want to chase the case. There was plenty to charge him with. Convict him? Quite possibly enough of a scare for him to perhaps cop a plea to involuntary manslaughter and a low end sentence rather than risk a murder rap. It's not a great case to defend. Snuka is a shitty witness who is accused of killing his mistress while his wife & kids are back home. You have all his statements others who have built in credibility to a certain degree (doctor / nurse / paramedic / cop). How do you counter that they're full of shit? Put Jimmy on the stand? He'd be a trainwreck. Offer up other witness on what Jimmy told them? Those would most be people in the wrestling business, which is another trainwreck. This was in the era before some jury folks felt the need to see everything on video tape to convict, or had watched loads of CSI and thought they were super geniuses. Then work the case a bit deeper, and you get Jimmy The Coke Head, and the prior violent act which. I don't recall of the Allentown Cops were aware at the time of his incident in Syracuse in January 1983 involving Nancy. If not and they dig deeper, then they get that as well and drag it in. My guess is that a decent lawyer representing looking at the case at the time with charges filed and seeing just how shitty of a witness Jimmy is would work to get a plea. * * * * * My "brutal" comment earlier was less aimed at what Jimmy did (which has been largely known nationally for 20+ years), but in how much the cops had to work with right from the start. This wasn't a hard one compared to a stone cold whodunit that they would work knowing there was little chance of cracking it. I agree 100% with everything you said, but it is still crazy that the police never ruled her death accidental or a homicide. My point was more about how sad it is that woman was killed and instead of at least charging the person who most likely killed her, they decided to abandon the case. Her murder wasn't even counted as an unsolved murder, despite the fact that the coroner ruled her death a homicide. The cops just decided it wasn't worth pursuing.

Can't it be both? I'm sure it was the "official" term to describe black people in wrestling at that point in time *and* it was a racist term because most of the people who were responsible for setting the language of the business were racists. Also I don't think Dave is as much condoning the use of it as much as it's similar to how he's kind of thrown his hands up at drug use in the business. He seems to have the same "it is what it is" feeling towards both. Agreed with this. If anyone is so taken aback by Dave's view on it, please e-mail him for the radio show as I'd honestly love to hear him expand on his view. It could be both, but did they call all of the black wrestlers that to their face? Because if it is the "official" term, there wouldn't be an issue right? I'm willing to bet that wasn't the case, so what the hell are we talking about.