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Everything posted by supremebve
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[MMA] Fights with genuinely different styles?
supremebve replied to JerryvonKramer's topic in Pro Wrestling Mostly
A couple of weeks ago there was a pretty good kickboxing vs. judo fight that you made of heard about. The judoka couldn't get inside to get off a throw and lock in an armbar, because the boxer used distance to potshot the poor judoka until kickboxer ended the fight with a head kick. I don't know, I thought Rousey vs. Holm was pretty high profile, but maybe I'm wrong. -
I remember me and about 15-20 friends would be cramped around a table for 6 at Hooters back in the early 2000s. I believe that is where I watched Wrestlemania X8. I wonder if any bars around me still do that, because wrestling is always more fun with a crowd. I just hope they have better food than Hooters.
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I think their biggest problem with the footage is that they don't understand who actually wants to watch it. The only people who want to watch all of this stuff are people like us, people who love wrestling as an artform. Not fans who watch the product when it is hot, not the people who remember watching as a kid, but people who watch wrestling when the aren't doing anything else. I was talking with my coworker who is an avid golfer. He was telling me how he wakes up on a Saturday and he calls a couple friends to see if they want to play a round or two. If they don't he goes to the range or goes to practice his putting. Golf is how he spends the time in his life when the bills are paid and the work is done. Those are the types of wrestling fans they need to think about when posting their video archives. Not the ones who watch their product, but the ones who want to see all of the good stuff from the past. So instead of just putting up the stuff from people who made a name in their company, they need to post the biggest moments from all of those other promotions. The people who want to see Puerto Rican wrestling are the same people who want to watch Mid South and Smokey Mountain Wrestling, the true hard core wrestling fans.
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Thanks guys, I can't wait to hear the podcast. One thing that I don't think was relevant for the Savage argument that I'd like to hear in a Fujinami(and others) episode is kind of a breakdown of what is the essential viewing. I'd love to hear the historic analysis and the comparisons to other wrestlers, but I'd like to have some matches to watch that illustrates those points. With Savage and Flair or even Misawa and Kawada, their most relevant matches are kind of in the collective internet wrestling nerd zeitgeist. For some reason Fujinami's career hasn't been discussed and analyzed as much and I have no idea what matches of his that I should seek out.
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He's made similar "women are just kinda crazy" remarks in the past on unrelated things too. If you date a crazy woman in high school, I get it, some women are crazy. If you date a crazy woman in college, OK, it be that way some times. If you date a crazy woman in your mid 20s when you are finding yourself, I understand, we've all been there. But...if you call every woman you've ever dated crazy, guess what? You are the crazy person.
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Ummm...I think we've all have dated someone we now think is a little nutty, but that doesn't mean that everyone of the opposite sex is crazy. That goes double for someone who thinks it is OK to smash a banana into his girlfriend's hair.
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I don't really think that Owens' place on the card is a problem. The problem is that they do not give people in that upper mid card spot anything interesting to do. Owens should be in a hot feud with another upper mid card wrestler, but they treat the intercontinental championship like a prop instead of a coveted title. It isn't enough that he is just carrying around a belt, that belt needs to be the proverbial bullseye on his back and other wrestlers need to want it. It doesn't matter if he's fat, skinny, muscular, or anything else, if there is no reason to care about anything he does.
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Why is it that the women use all types of submissions, but the guys only use chinlocks? Paige seems to bust out three new submissions every match, and they all look nasty. Charlotte is getting better, but the seams of her work still show too much for my taste. She just looks like she is trying to look like a wrestler instead of naturally feeling like a wrestler. She's the perfect base for all of Paige's submissions though, she has that Melina flexibility that makes submissions look devastating.
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I'd agree with this, especially when you take into account how much in-ring talent they have right now. I've always hated the fact that they've always tried to have a company style, but their current style doesn't seem to really build to a climax. All of the matches seem like a exhibition of spots that ramp up to bigger spots, but they don't really connect with each other in a way that makes them meaningful. The style does occasionally lead to good matches, but I don't see us looking back on this era 10 years from now with any affection.
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I don't think any of the matches were bad, but there wasn't a single match on the show that made me want to watch it again. My thumbs don't go up for merely above average matches. I need something memorable or at least something with replay value. These matches were fine, but so are 10,000 other matches I'll never rewatch.
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I agree, I think Owens is the only person who could have come out of the show the champion and felt like a big deal. No one would have expected it, and he is the only person who can put himself over on the mic.
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Last night's show was just another example of what is wrong with the modern WWE. The last time I watched a WWE show and felt like I saw something special was Lesnar ending the Undertaker's streak. Before that it was probably the "Pipe Bomb" promo. Wrestling, when it is good, is always building to one of those moments. If the audience can see the strings, we don't care about the puppets. The ending of that show was the exact opposite of what they should be doing. I watched Survivor Series, but that is only because I wasn't doing anything else. This is supposedly the 4th biggest show of the year, there was going to be a new champion, and somehow it still didn't feel special. They could have made this feel like something during the show by giving Owens the upset win, turning Ambrose or Reigns heel, or a number of other things that 75% of the audience couldn't have predicted. I can't remember a time before I was a wrestling fan, and I've seen worse wrestling promotions, but this is the most boring wrestling promotion I've ever watched. Another huge problem with the ending is Sheamus isn't over. He is a good wrestler, but his character is a braided beard and a mohawk. There is nothing that makes him feel special, he's just another guy on the roster. He hasn't been on a win streak, he hasn't cut any memorable promos, he hasn't been in a meaningful feud, he's just a guy holding a briefcase. That is not his fault. The problem is that they don't book anyone on the roster strongly. Sheamus' lack of heat is just a symptom of a larger illness. They have 5 hours of television every single week, and do not give any thought to any characters on the undercard. Going into last night was there a single feud that you cared about? Who is the #1 contender for the US Championship? The Intercontinental Championship? The Tag Team Championship? Shouldn't there always be a feud for those titles? The only value those titles hold is that they should be where prospects cut their teeth before going to the main event. They stopped doing that, and the entire roster seems directionless. The champion got injured, and they didn't have a single person on the roster who felt like they were worthy of holding the top title.
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It is incredibly early to finish a PPV though, something is coming.
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Shows coming soon: Ricky Steamboat Jumbo Tsuruta El Satanico Can I request a Fujinami episode? He's the guy I know is good, but have no idea where to start watching. What I've seen from him has all been good, but I've only watched a few of his matches. I don't know any of his biggest feuds, matches, or anything that really keeps me invested in him as a wrestler.
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Kama making the urn into a gold chain isn't even close to the most racist thing WWE has done, it isn't even the most racist thing they've made Charles Wright do. He was a wrestling voodoo priest, and a wrestling pimp, melting down an urn into a gold chain is a distant third.
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Dolph Ziggler is to fashion choices as Ed Leslie is to characters. They keep changing, but always change for the worse.
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He also stole Asuka's face line.
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My suggestion would to feature someone who is a candidate for #1, but is a little more obscure than Savage/Flair. I'm speaking as someone who was born in the United States in 1981 and has watched wrestling as long as I remember, so my opinion on those guys is already set. I'd like to see the case for guys like Bockwinkel, Jumbo, Fujinami, or anyone who didn't have national exposure for my entire life. It could be the fact that Randy Savage is my favorite wrestler of all time, and not needing any convincing of his place in wrestling, but I'd like to hear some of these on some guys I'm still forming my opinion about. I've seen a decent amount of Jumbo Tsuruta and think he might be a candidate for #1, but in reality I will never be able to have the understanding of his career that I have about guys like Savage. Even if I watched every single Jumbo match, it wouldn't be like watching Randy Savage in real time as a kid. Wresting is an art form that is supposed to connect to the audience on an emotional level. It is hard to recreate those emotions watching random matches from 20-30 years ago. So, if a show like this can fill in the blanks of his career and give me something to think about other than just the nuts and bolts of the matches, I think it could really help people make more informed decisions.
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The Mounties entrance music. Any entrance music that the wrestler sings comically for that matter. Any time they show a wrestler in the back before the entrance of a big match. Goldberg's entrance was so great, because all of his matches started with the, "This is a huge deal," backstage segment.
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Jumbo did ALL of the little things. I was watching a match where he held onto the ropes to avoid a Misawa dropkick, and he sold the "Oh shit, that almost got me," moment better than anyone I've ever seen. I always like Misawa's dropkick, but that moment made it seem like a big, knockout strike. The split second reaction to avoiding that kick made a huge difference in what I felt about a move I've seen 100 times before. That is kind of the difference between good wrestlers and great wrestlers, they are always trying to put their opponent over.
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Kawada's stretching exhibition during his entrance was one of those things that made him seem like a legit bad ass. He was limbering up to deliver a world class ass kicking. The way sleazy heel Eddy Guerrero sauntered to the ring in WCW. He looked like the dude who hung out in front of a liquor store just waiting for a teenager to ask him to buy them beer. Except, instead of buying them beer, he stole their money, bought himself some Thunderbird, and dared them to do something about it. He was a guy who you wanted to punch in the face, but you didn't, because you were pretty sure he could beat your ass. The way Steve Austin stared his opponent down while walking from corner to corner to do his double fist raise.
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Think the issue with Sid is that he just isn't a babyface. Even as a babyface he always had that aura that he would turn heel at the drop of the hat. You can have monster babyfaces if they had a visually strong style of working...like Goldberg, whose moves looks like they would kill anyone. Sid has the chokeslam and the powerbomb but I can't even recall if Sid had any other moves beyond striking. I think the best utility of his character as a babyface is 911. And 911 isn't a main event act at all. Just my take on it. I think I agree with what you are saying here, but there is one issue. He was terrible at everything that goes into being a babyface, except that the crowd cheered wildly for every little thing he did. He's one of the consistently worst wrestlers of all time, who always got a good reaction from the crowd. I know all the other guys in the locker room who actually spent time trying to be good, had to hate him. They're working their asses off doing everything they can to get over, and Sid walks out and people cheer him without doing a damn thing.
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poor old Fred, its like they found a few pieces of costume in Jim Herds old locker chucked him in them and told him to go break a leg. According to wiki WCW attempted to salvage the incident by introducing a new character called The Super Shockmaster. Also portrayed by Ottman, he was presented as The Shockmaster's nephew, and referred to the Shockmaster as "Uncle Fred.". I have no memory of this character Fred Ottman won this shit, everyone else is fighting for second place. How do you beat a fat man, wearing a bedazzled storm trooper helmet, busting through a wall, tripping over a piece of wood, and falling on his face, as a debut?
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Here's the thing though, she is really fucking good. Holly Holm is a good boxer, from an elite camp, who prepared her to fight the perfect fight. Rousey is a grappling savant, who can beat any woman in the world if she's able to work her game. Honestly Rousey is as good as people say she is at what she does, Holm didn't allow her to do that. If she can get inside and clinch with any 135 pound woman in the world, including Holly Holm, I think she wins. Holm trains at Jackson's MMA with guys like Jon Jones, Carlos Condit, and about 25 other good to great MMA fighters. She could train with some of the best in the world, for the rest of her life and still not have the ability to keep Rousey from judo throwing her and locking in an arm bar her if she didn't keep her range.
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You think that giving Ed Leslie 9,000 different gimmicks in WCW is proof of people hating him? If anyone else was as terrible as he was, as many times as he was, they would have been cut before we could even make jokes about him. Between him, John Tenta, and Ray Traylor, they were given so many chances to get over. Those chances were just presented in terrible gimmicks.