Mrzfn

Don't think I've ever seen anything worse than that '91 GAB Scaffold Match. I don't hate the whole show like some do but holy hell was that one terrible.

Wait, what's the name of that lucha guy OJ hates that threw a hooker of the balcony that had a great chain match vs. La Fiera? Wasn't he listed already? There is a hooker that had a great chain match with La Fiera? Bumping because it's hilarious and was totally no sold. Bravo sir.

I can think of a solid half dozen Sydal matches that I think are flat out great, and a lot more good ones besides. I love how crisp and measured a lot of his stuff is, much more so that most who wrestle in that style. Glad I could fit him on my ballot.

Greatness is a combination of ability and opportunity. If Cena didn't get the opportunities he did, he wouldn't be considered as great. Contrast with a guy like, say, Arn Anderson, who is still considered great despite very limited opportunities, at least when it comes to big match situations. I don't know if that makes Cena a wrestler with a lot of great matches who isn't great, but I think it's easy to see there's some kind of difference. Personally I agree with earlier posts that Triple H is the best example, as I feel even when he's in a great match he is almost never the guy helping to make it great.

I've had 17 drop off of my list so far. I realize that technically my high-low vote was Johnny Ace way at the very back end, but I've really grown attached to my Drew + Monkey profile pic.

I agree with all of this. I also think it is fair to consider managers for their work at ringside during actual matches. Folks like Cornette, Jimmy Hart, Heenan, etc added a TON to matches and I'm wondering if anyone considered them for that aspect of their work in addition to their participation in actual matches? I didn't personally but I think you could make that case, especially for ultra-physical guys like Heenan. I think something that goes overlooked with Heenan is that more than just being a super bump freak, he's one of the all time masters of knowing *when* to bump in order to get maximum effect, not to mention that he has tremendous psychology and consistency whenever he's involved in a match of any decent lengths. His ability to control the crowd is just otherworldly. Somone posted a six man tag from the 70s in the RIP Lanza thread which really shows a lot of this stuff, if I recall. All that and on top of it, on the rare occasion he does do some offense, he is actually great at it, when he gets to hit it his punch especially is really fantastic. I wouldn't say he has any all time competitive matches because that wasn't what he was shooting for, but he really does check pretty much all the other boxes if you take the time to seek out his matches.

I think it's pretty consistently Quack and Hallowicked, though I'm sure there have been exceptions over the years. Quack's is a little easier to spot because he actually talks and if you've listened to as much Quack as I have, you can pretty well tell that it's him. It's a footnote to his case anyway but fair point, CHIKARA mask stuff can definitely get a little hairy for some characters.

Yeah, I went high on Kingston as well. I guess it's redudant to out myself as a CHIKARA fan at this point but, without doing another incredibly long post (maybe later), I do want to say that his early work in CZW and his current stuff in places like AIW added a lot to his case. Kingston brings this unique battered warrior vibe to his matches that I really love, and he does a dozen little things to use that in his matches in a way that enhances them. At the end of the day you could just handwaive him as a Kawada cosplayer I guess but I think he's the best possible version of that, and he injects a tremendous amount of his own stuff too so to consider him only an imitator would be wrong I think. I didn't count promo work specifically but I do think he's one of the best indy-centric guys ever in that category, and the fact that he can and does bleed that character work into his matches counts a lot for me. I love his intensity, his strikes and throws, I think his selling and psych is world class especially when it comes to putting over limb work or something. He and Gulak worked a match last year that was based entirely around Gulak basically trying to paralyze his backfist arm, and Kingston being forced to either fight through the pain or find a different way to win. He's on his 14th year and I've been seeing pretty consistently great stuff from him since 04. I feel like he's criticized a lot for his look but honestly I could give a damn because he's just meant to be a hard hitting son of a bitch most of the time and he can do that with a bit of a gut, plus it makes it all the more impressive when he digs deep and does something really athletic. His run on top of CHIKARA is really one of my favorite ace runs ever, so in the end I felt justified about putting him really high up the list. If I had had mroe time to watch stuff he might have dropped a bit but I can't imagine him not making my top 50 at a minimum, probably top 25.

Ok, I hid under the anonymous option so I could wait and see if anyone called for my head when that Quackenbush vote dropped, and nobody has exactly so I'll try to lay out my thought process a bit. Obviously first and foremost it's a matter of tastes and I 100% admit my tastes are eccentric, especially compared to the general consesus of this board, but I do want to try to explain it succinctly so I don't look like a complete nutjob (or a secret Quackenbush account). I have no idea if there's an option for this but if there is, I wouldn't mind my votes being switched to public at this point. Putting aside Quack's level of influence, which I do agree with Dylan is larger than most people might realize, I do actually view his in ring work as being much higher quality than others seem to. I don't see a "fake" or "phony" style when I watch him, but rather a highly experimental hybrid that borrows elements from a lot of different styles historically, styles that many fans have forgotten about or were never aware of in the first place. I find it all the more impressive that he advocated this style at a time when most in his sphere were imitating puro, and his work to integrate more lucha and European elements into his matches make them stand out all the more. I think he's legimiately great on the mat, creative and fluid, I guess I can see the argument that he was overly ambitious at times but to me I guess that's part of the charm and fits pretty well with the onscreen character he was trying to potray, which among others things was a guy who loved what he did and sometimes veered into trying to show off. I think he works great as a pure babyface, I don't think he has a lot of heel work in his career but that's not necessarily a knock in my book. I like that he approaches matches differently based on his opponent and the story of the match. An exhibition against a mat guy will look tremendously different than a grudge match against a power guy, a match against a guy from Europe looks very different than a match against a guy from Mexico, and so on and so forth. He has a formula of sorts but it's very fluid and he doesn't rely too much on repetitive spots to pop the crowd but tries to tailor what he does based on who is wrestling in front of, whether it's 25 people in some random PA town or 2500 out in Germany or somewhere. He's very good at working storyline based stuff and integrating small details to enhance the match, whether it's a callback spot, reacting to a certain guy a certain way, building tension around a specific sequence, or any number of other things. At the same time I don't think he's limited to only being good inside of a storyline, and can pull out a lot of great stuff when he's just doing a guest spot in a random indie. I think he's in contention for being the best hot tag of all time, and I'll stand by that. I think he's a smart and versatile worker, he can work a grudge match, an exhibition match, a comedy match, pretty much anything that might be on the card (and sometimes more than one thing on the same card). He had a fantastic prime run between 2004 and 2011-12 or so where he was consistently great, and I've seen him do great things in flashes as far back as '98. He was smart enough to hang up the boots for the most part before doing a lot of damage to himself, but continues building to his case working mostly comedy matches as El Hijo del Ice Cream, but even there I think he shines as his act is incredibly over and he can still put a twinge of seriously effective stuff into his work. The 2015 subtle character arc which basically built a full year to a kickout spot in the season finale was really well done, not just a booking standpoint but the way he got the story over using mostly body language alone was very impressive to me. His prime maches consistently impress me on the level of great, not just good but great, and if this was a favorite list instead of a best he might rank even higher. God knows I can understand why he's not everyone's cup of tea, but when I look at what makes a "great" wrestler Quack ticks nearly every box for me. I'd probably still be the high vote on him if we did this again in 2026 but I have hopes that his stock will rise with time. Even if it doesn't though, I'm glad I could bump the guy's place on the list because I think he's more than earned it. I vaguely remember saying something about being succint. Oops! I'll try not to drown this thread desparately trying to justify some of my oddball votes (I've been the high vote on several others including Heenan, whom I think there is plenty enough tape on to judge as a potential best of all time talent). Grimmas, this whole thing has been amazing and I want to thank you for putting it on, I've seen so many people because of it that I had no idea about a few years ago, guys like Bockwinkel, Negro Casas, Robinson, Smothers, Breaks, Dandy, Satanico, Rose, and Grey, all of whom also made my list after a dive into their stuff.

Is it just me, or is Franz van Buyten definitely Liam Neeson?

After a couple of years of lurking and realizing that holy shit, my wrestling knowledge is a drop in the ocean compared to some people, I've finally decided to up and join the board here. I've been watching GWE stuff like mad in particular, trying to get as knowledgeable as possible. I'll be trying to post thoughts on a lot of the stuff I've seen/will see before finalizing my ballot. My tastes are pretty eclectic but I promise to back up any weird opinions I end up throwing out there. Glad to be here, now I'm off to drop the self-deprecation and try to not appear out of my depth.