jamesie_2015

How mental will people go if Hogan makes Top 30?

Can I ask here as I'm not sure where else to ask - was there a 00's indies project done in the last few years? I read mention of it in the Daniel Bryan thread? Hopefully this isn't too off topic. Thanks.

Didn't vote for Onita but still kinda happy to see him on there.

Mark Henry. Boss Man. Goldberg squashing jobbers. Natural Disasters doing the same.

One function of criticism is to open up people's eyes to things they didn't see before. 1. Chop at start of match that says "come on, you're in the ring with the champ now". It's a little wake up call, and a statement of intent. 2. Chop as a wear down tactic. It's meant to take the breath and wind out. Picture a big stiff chop in the corner. 3. Chop as an annoyance tactic. Especially against a bigger opponent. Picture Nikita getting increasingly pissed off. 4. Chop as method of getting over superiority of opponent. Picture Flair hitting Taker, say, and finding it has zero effect, trying again and then backing up and begging off, the hope in his face draining away. 5. Chop as a comeback. Especially when he's babyface, of course. 6. Chop as invite to chop exchange. One of the cool things about the Flair chop is that it invites a reply. This is where an exchange can start. And this can go in a number of ways, straight up manly exchange (see Tenryu match) or with either guy coming out on top and transitioning to something else. 7. Chop as feed to babyface comeback. Primary usage, more of a hint of desperation here. Think about that for a second, the same move he uses for his own comeback, also feeds a babyface comeback. 8. Chop as demonstration of total superiority. This is bully Flair kicking the shit out of Ricky Morton or whatever. 9. Chop as a pop to the crowd. This is when he hits it and woos and the crowd woo back. 10. Chop as a mind game. This is especially important in the longer matches. Flair might have been getting his ass kicked for twenty minutes and then he still goes and pulls a huge stiff chop out and it's a mind fuck. A lot of Flair as champ psychology is about playing with hope and then taking away hope. That's what I see. I hope this will enrich other people's experiences of watching Flair matches. I love shit like this. Don't ever stop talking Flair.

Yep. I like Zayn & he'd probably make my top 150 but he's not better than Ki or Hero at all. I think he's second only to Bryan from the 00's indy generation. I had him top 30.

Thumbs up.

He made my top 10. For many years he'd have been my unhesitating number one. While I have discovered people I now see as better (or people have emerged) there's definitely an element of me being uncomfortable in watching his stuff in his slip down the list, despite my best attempts to remain dispassionate.

There's no need for this to be an issue when all the data is to hand. Tally up the votes of people who were anonymous and those of so called "acceptable" PWO board originals (or whatever you want to call them) and compare where Flair finishes.

Yes!

Christian being good but not quite good enough somehow seems rather apt. Exactly how I'd describe him.

Zayn is going to shock people with how high he goes I think. People who rate him REALLY rate him. His indy resume alone is extraordinary.

Ah Waltman is the first one that stings. I guess that "heat" hurt his case more than it should.

Exactly. I think people mistake what I'm talking about when I say "objectivity", it has nothing to do with my list or with BIGLAV or anything like that, it has to do with pointing at evidence, whether input or output, a guy's career, what actually happened etc. etc. Objectively, Kenta Kobashi had more matches period than Magnum TA. This is a fact. Magnum TA's career was short. These are tangible, measurable things. Who had more "great matches" is a subjective value judgement, but most people who have seen a good chunk of both careers, would say Kobashi had more of them than Magnum. Again, this sort of thing is in the realm of objectivity. I have a hard time thinking about the argument that takes that evidence about both bodies of work and comes out with Magnum TA as the #1 worker. To me that goes against the grain of what is there. And, I'm pretty sure most other people here agree and have Kobashi above Magnum, if indeed they ranked Magnum at all (I did, he was my #100 guy). So lots of people looking at the same evidence all draw similar conclusions. That's objectivity. I hope it's clear how that has nothing to do with BIGLAV. The main benefit of BIGLAV that I see is that it FORCES you to think about exactly how long someone's peak was relative to others or how many great opponents Hansen had compared to a Flair or Funk. While it has its flaws, anyone who actually used it can at least say they gave these things detailed consideration and have a good base from which to justify their list.

Someone else made the point that one of the more interesting aspects of this will not be how people compare 1 to 100 but how people compare to their contemporaries. I'll be fascinated to see how the AJPW Pillars end up ranked or who finishes higher between the likes of say Rey, Eddie, Benoit, Regal.

I have Rock in my 100.I put certain people on my list based on charisma, promos and ability to work a live crowd (Hogan too for example). To me being brilliant in these aspects of pro wrestling are just as important as having great matches all the time.

Speaking of No. 1 votes, anyone reckon Undertaker will get one (or more)? I know at least two friends with years of wrestling fandom behind them, who'd unhesitatingly call him the greatest.

The Sting and Dory pics are tremendous.

This was a fantastic read.

My wife is due to give birth to our second son on April 28. Hopefully he's on time so he can take in the full top 10 reveal. So basically you're naming him Ric, Stan, Terry or Jerry? Hopefully Ric 😀 Haha imagine! Huge congrats by the way.

My wife is due to give birth to our second son on April 28. Hopefully he's on time so he can take in the full top 10 reveal. So basically you're naming him Ric, Stan, Terry or Jerry?

Lol he literally gets listed just as a wrote this.

The obsession with HHH is pretty tedious guys. Is there no one else "undeserving" ye could change record to for a small while?

Genuinely thought Henry might make the 100. Love him to bits. :-(

This entire thread is incredible.