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Everything posted by Viking Hall
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Another small side note based around this is that I noticed someone else doing way more facial expressions and character work than I've seen them do before at Dominion and that was Zack Sabre Jr. He's driven me mad the last few years at his inability to show any emotion and all his matches came across as just going through the motions as he transferred from hold to hold. At Dominion however, he was doing it all with a lot more expression and at times came off as someone that was really into trying to hurt his opponent rather than just showing off all the cool holds he does. Can only think all the time he's spending in the ring with Suzuki is paying off. Still a long way to go before he lives up to the hype for me, but a marked improvement nonetheless.
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I actually think this is something we're starting to see again for the first time in a long time, if you look at some of the most talked about characters and matches in 2018, a lot of them are involving a ton of character work and real selling throughout. I mean just this weekend alone we've had Omega and Okada falling in and out of consciousness, Nick Jackson selling a foot injury to the point that he was still selling it hours after the match and Cody and Marty Scurll being some of the most downright nasty pieces of work in wrestling right now. Top that off with Jericho coming out of nowhere to be the scariest man in wrestling and I think you can say a lot of the most influential people in the business (whether it's subconsciously or consciously) are trying their hardest to drag psychology kicking and screaming into the 21st century once more. I definitely think there's a realisation that there needs to more to draw the consumers in than just general flashiness. We're rapidly approaching the point where there won't be anymore crazy spots and moves left to do to up the ante and at the point there's only two ways to go, accept that we've seen it all and carry on regardless or bring something extra to the table and go back to the roots of what pro-wrestling is about. So with that in mind, it's no coincidence that the biggest names are starting to do just that and in turn, stand out from the crowd for it. This can only filter down too, in the same way that Joe Indie has spent the last 10 years or so doing more flips and neck bumps because that's what the cool kids do, it's only a matter of time before they take notice of The Young Bucks selling injuries or start dissecting why someone like Johnny Gargano is standing out from the pack right now and adapt to fit. Every era has its peak and this is just another one of those peaks where the very best right now will evolve into something newer and more fresh while others will stick to what they know and slowly slide down the cards with the WWE eventually following suit a few years down the line.
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Just finished this, show didn't blow me away if I'm honest but it was solid throughout and without a bad match but didn't draw me in as much as previous NJPW shows I've seen. Having said that, it'll still be a show of the year contender but was just missing that certain something for me. Of the two main events I was looking forward to Jericho vs Naito the most but I think I'd over-hyped it in my head too much because it didn't even begin to get close to Jericho vs Omega match for me. It had all the components, brutality, heavy hitting and solid work from both sides but they just didn't click as well as Jericho and Omega did in my book. Jericho is still my favourite character in wrestling right now and maybe the only person out there that I'm not sure where the line is blurred between reality and showmanship, he's just off the chain right now and if this turns out to be his final run, he's certainly going out with a bang. Ending caught me completely off guard too. Wasn't sure how I felt about Omega vs Okada, I think knowing it was going for an hour + took me out of the first half of the match and I found myself getting distracted a little (literally found myself Googling 'Conan' Chris Walker at one point for the obvious look similarities) but when it kicked into gear it really went for it. Great selling on both sides and some of the best 'exhausted' wrestling I think I've ever seen. Still think they could have taken anything up to twenty minutes out of it to sharpen it up but there's no doubting that when the dust settles it'll go down as an all time great match. Certainly interested to see where both sides go from here, should lead to some interesting match ups and stories going forward.
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Talking about Regal's 2013 matches in the Longest Period Between Great Matches thread got me thinking what are the best final matches in a career, whether they're proper retirement matches or just final matches by circumstance?
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Pitbull Johnson Well seeing that gimp being mentioned on here was unexpected. He bought some shows from Hammerlock when I was there in 1996. They were 'interesting' to say the least. Not least for him sitting taking money at the door, writing TICKITT in big letters on a lined pad, then tearing the pages off and handing them to the bemused punters. Not before trying to flog them promo pictures of himself standing in his garden, with a garden gnome and his neighbours looking over the fence in the background. He was from Sheerness, on the Isle of Sheppey, but couldn't pronounce the letter H, so ended up being from Seerness, on the Isle of Seppey. He also formed a very popular up and coming tag team with Alex Sane, called the Seppey Lads. He also advertised a ladder match as the main event of one show, then forgot to bring the ladder. Hammerlock MC Dean Ayass officially became my hero on that night, as he called Pitbull out to the ring before the main event. He thought Dean was going to thank him for all his efforts in promoting the show, etc. Dean then said "Now, ladies and gentlemen, as you know, we were supposed to have a ladder match for you here tonight. Unfortunately, we haven't got that match for you tonight....and here to explain why is Ian 'Pitbull' Johnson." Dean then handed him the microphone and watched him stand there like a deer caught in the headlights for about a minute, before he finally stammered "Errrr, forgot the ladder". He was also arrested whilst on the run from the law, when he promoted a wrestling show and put himself all over the posters. He couldn't work out how they'd found him! Memories This was brilliant, need more stories about the dark days of British Wrestling.
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[2000-01-01-TWA-Total Impact TV] American Dragon vs Spanky
Viking Hall replied to Loss's topic in January 2000
So glad to see this, like some others I've never seen anything from TWA and it makes a great starting point for both of these two. Already easy to see how Spanky would end up on WWE television just a couple of years later as he just oozes the kind of natural charisma that very few ever manage to learn and despite looking dangerously skinny and being minus decent gear, already looks like a TV star. Glad that American Dragon lost the mask early on, I'm not adverse to masked wrestlers by any stretch but it just doesn't work for him and he comes off looking like a generic Create a Wrestler from a video game in terms of looks. Match wise this is certainly an early demo so to speak, the basic elements are there but they were still waiting on some studio magic to make them the finished article. Unlike others I don't think there's much to choose between the two of them, Spanky is certainly the flashier of the two and is certainly not adverse to bumping but Dragon is clearly already looking to become a more well rounded and technically astute wrestler. Both have their bright moments in the match and while some things don't come off quite well enough, it's hard to imagine many others having such an ambitious match so early out of the blocks. Crowd are really into it too which helps I think, not sure if this is because they're showing encouragement for academy graduates or because these two were already over but it was great to see either way. Final shenanigans were sloppy at best, but served their purpose and all in all this was a fun little slice of history. **1/2 -
Absolutely love Regal and have been intrigued to see some of his work during this period of rejuvenation. I'm actually a fan of both of these workers both in and out of the ring and thought The Blue Meanie was a great novelty attraction in ECW but one that always felt like an odd signing for the WWF given his niche entertainment value. Have to say though, stripped of his usual Meanie garb and with a more conventional haircut he couldn't look more backyard if he tried here to the point of me actually wondering whether he forgot to bring his gear. I'm guessing this was due to his active weight-loss more than anything and knowing he was planning on getting even slimmer as he would turn up back in ECW a few months later having dropped even more weight. However, weight-loss or otherwise, he could have definitely benefited from some proper gear here as he stands out like a sore thumb against the professional looking Regal and the interfering Jim Neidhart. Regal's opening promo is prime Regal and proof why the WWF/E has kept him around as a mouthpiece for so many years (even during periods of in-ring inactivity) as nobody cuts a promo quite like him and gets all the heat he needs here with ease. The match itself is okay and is further evidence that even when there's not much to work with, Regal will nearly always throw some interesting stuff into the mix and he looks incredibly sharp and on point here. The Neidhart interference was a little odd out of context (especially as I didn't realise he was down there at the time) but didn't detract too much from what was an entertaining five or so minute match with both getting some cool stuff in. The Regal Cutter looked fantastic too, probably my favourite of his vast array of finishing maneuvers.
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Wrestlers with largest timespan between 2 great matches
Viking Hall replied to Jetlag's topic in Pro Wrestling
The Cesaro match was after the Ohno match, and was his last match period. I have the Regal vs. Jones match from 1986 rated as a GREAT match, and the Tiger Singh match from 87 rated as an EPIC Just went and rewatched the Marty Jones match, I would agree there. Not seen the Tiger Singh match though. -
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Wrestlers with largest timespan between 2 great matches
Viking Hall replied to Jetlag's topic in Pro Wrestling
His first televised match against Marty Jones from 1986 is actually on YouTube and he already looks very technically proficient despite only being a skinny 18 year old, so potentially looking at 27 years as I can't imagine much footage before that exists, but I think we can comfortably say he's in the 20 year + category. -
Wrestlers with largest timespan between 2 great matches
Viking Hall replied to Jetlag's topic in Pro Wrestling
The likes of William Regal, Dave Taylor and Dave Finlay have to be in there don't there? All were having great matches well into the 21st century and all been wrestling since the late seventies/early eighties. -
I found myself watching some late nineties ECW the other day and found myself thinking that Spike Dudley doesn't get enough credit for being a great worker. Massively over in ECW as the ultimate underdog, fearless bump taker and could actually do some fast paced wrestling when it was called upon. Had a decent run in the WWF/E against all odds too when other more 'conventionally' talented wrestlers floundered.
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So, was the sumo guy signed?
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So, was that a fuck up or does Reigns gain the title after a video review next week? Because he clearly won.
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I still can't believe that Reigns excuse for not winning was that he was booked to win but that changed when Brock signed a new contract. Come on lads, play the game.
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Comments that don't warrant a thread - Part 4
Viking Hall replied to TravJ1979's topic in Pro Wrestling
Not to mention winning BOLA in 2016. I love Marty and I love how much he's developed from being the typical British low rent comedy wrestler 5 or 6 years ago to becoming one of the most recognisable wrestlers not currently in possession of a WWE contract right now. -
I enjoyed it too, two guys who could have had a legit fight decided to have a little fun with it. Suzuki just being a crazy old bastard never fails for me.
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- Minoru Suzuki
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This is actually a pretty great and accurate description of the match and how these two guys worked. I think it speaks volume on how patterned it has become. They can't act & react organically as pro-wrestlers depending on the story they are supposed to tell, they just do token spots over and over again. Picture Rey Mysterio doing the 619 twenty times during a match... Exactly. Perfect comparison is just to look at the two main events from Takeover and Mania to see how different a hard hitting match can be. One had a natural progression and build the other was real life button mashing. A shame really.
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Watched WrestleMania last night and to say it's taken some digesting is an understatement. Firstly, I should explain that I came into it as your typical marquee show viewer, I find the amount of WWE TV out there to be total overkill so I just keep my toe in to know what's happening come the bigger shows of the year. Overall, I thought the show was decent to good but with some incredibly perplexing decisions and an almost punishing run time which towards the end started to let it down. I thought the undercard certainly outshined the uppercard and certainly had me considering the positions of a couple of wrestlers on the roster and also I felt a few of the matches could have been dropped to the pre-show and/or eliminated altogether, but I guess the want or need to showcase everyone made that impossible. The Miz vs Seth Rollins vs Finn Balor - Intercontinental Title: ***1/2 Felt this was a really solid opener with three of the better talents in the company. The Miz is someone I've done a total 180 on in recent years and I'm hoping this leads to another chance to run at the very top of the company. Balor I've not been totally sold on since he left Japan but he certainly pulled his weight here and the three combined well to put on an entertaining match. Loved the finish for Rollins and it will be interesting to see where his reign goes. Charlotte Flair vs Asuka - Smackdown Women's Title: **** First surprise of the night here. I like many had Asuka pegged for this one and was pretty gutted when I was proved wrong, however the quality of the match overall made up for it. I'm still not entirely sure it was the right decision but I can't deny that both women really brought it in this one making the match the dark horse of the evening. Could have perhaps gone on slightly longer and I would have liked to have seen Asuka escape the hold at least once, but overall based solely on the in-ring action there wasn't much to complain about here. The one real saving grace about Asuka's defeat is that unlike many who have traded off of a streak I feel she has enough about her for it to not affect her momentum too much should they not mess up her writing over the next few months. Randy Orton vs Bobby Roode vs Rusev vs Jinder Mahal - U.S. Heavyweight Title: **1/2 Honestly don't remember that much about this one other than I called the Mahal win when a friend said that no way was Rusev was losing after the reactions he was getting. As much as I'm not as down on Mahal as many are, this was clearly a wrong decision and the optimist in me hopes it's due to them seeing bigger things for Rusev in the long run. Hard to see why they're not pushing what is obviously a fairly complete package to the stars. Arguably, surprise number two of the night. Ronda Rousey & Kurt Angle vs Stephanie McMahon & Triple H: ****1/2 I don't think anyone knew what to expect from this one but for me it absolutely tore the house down and all four deserve every bit of credit that should be coming their ways for it. From Rousey's point of view it was hard to believe that we were witnessing her first ever professional match, on the whole she looked reassured and came off as a total star once she got the early match nerves in check giving the impression that the only way is up from this point. Triple H and Angle are still great hands, even if Angle is understandably nowhere near as mobile as he once was and played their parts well but I think arguably the biggest credit has to go to Steph who held her own admirably and seemed to show that she'd put in the work to be ready for the match. This could have been a complete an utter clusterf*ck but ended up an absolute show-stealer, match of the night for me. The Usos vs The New Day vs The Bludgeon Brothers - WWE Smackdown Tag Team Titles: *** I'm a fan of all three of these teams, but I do think there was perhaps an argument for this being dropped to the pre-show. However, despite that Harper and Rowan came out looking like monsters with Harper in particular showing why he might be one of the most underrated talents on the whole roster. Would love to see a stiff-fest between them and the Authors of Pain at some point. Solid if unspectacular filler match. John Cena vs The Undertaker: **1/2 I'd spent weeks leading up to this hoping, neigh, praying to a deity I don't believe in that we would get a swerve here and see a debut or return from someone else instead but alas, we got a match that I don't think anyone needed to see in 2018. Don't get me wrong, I respect the Undertaker immensely, but I just don't think we need anymore matches from him, Mania or otherwise, as far as I'm concerned, last year was it and it should stay that way. As it was we got our third surprise of the evening in that Taker actually on the surface looked in better shape than he had in a few years (the suspicious bacne might have something to do with that) and also that we got something of an admittedly entertaining squash match against someone who just a few years ago was basically untouchable. An entertaining cameo if nothing else, but one that was completely unnecessary after last year. Daniel Bryan & Shane McMahon vs Kevin Owens and Sami Zayn: ***1/2 All emotion this one, from the lead up to the moment Bryan came out again this was probably something that will go down as a WrestleMania moment whether his comeback stays on track or not. With three such solid hands in the ring, it was always going to be decent, with Zayn in particular impressing with his heel work. Shane looked a little off of the pace, but like Angle, that's somewhat understandable given the circumstances. Was great to see Bryan instantly back on the pace, but I must admit it will take a while for me to not cringe after each bump. Also nice to see that he seemed to have adapted slightly, tending to lead foot first rather than head first on dives etc. Interested to see where they take Owens and Zayn from here as well as the some of the dream match scenarios we now have with a fit again Bryan available. Good match that was more feel good than technical skill. Alexa Bliss vs Nia Jax - RAW Women's Title: *** Honestly hadn't seen much of these two leading up to this, but was quite happy to see a good old fashioned personal feud playing out. Match was perfectly acceptable with them working the little and large angle well, the brutal looking finish pushed it up from a two star to a three for me. Jax could be pushed as being pretty unstoppable here which leads to a few interesting match options for next year should they choose to do that. Another match that could have perhaps been dropped to pre-show duties. AJ Styles vs Shinsuke Nakamura - WWE Championship: **1/2 I would call this the biggest letdown of the night, but part of me had an inkling that it just wouldn't deliver and I was unfortunately proved right. The combination of flat, worn out crowd and the fact that match never really kicked up a gear hurt this one immensely and it was hard to believe that we were watching a match with two of what many consider to be the best wrestlers in the world. I don't think Nakamura has translated well since coming to America and has maybe lost a step or two as well since arriving, however if anyone was going to get a match out of him, you would expect it to be Styles but last night it didn't seem either clicked. Only saving grace was the aftermath which I think will benefit Nakamura immensely in the future. The Bar vs Braun Strowman & Nicholas - WWE RAW Tag Team Titles: 1/2* Absolutely pointless. Don't get me wrong, there's a time for light hearted moments in wrestling, but that time isn't nearly seven hours into the biggest show of the year with the guy you've been presenting as a monster for a year. Either give him a proper mystery partner or don't bother, no one needed a shaking infant on the apron. Brock Lesnar vs Roman Reigns - WWE Universal Title: ** Where to start with this? Now, I know Reigns has his fans on this board but I simply do not see it. Like, it's weird to me and combining him with 2018 Lesnar who has the exact same issue was always going to be a disaster. That issue is... they don't know how to/refuse to 'wrestle' anymore. The only way to describe them both are living, breathing video game characters who simply spam the same moves over and over again. I have absolutely no doubt that they both had it in their lockers to produce a decent, hard hitting brawl and simply chose not to. Sure, they did the hard hitting bit, but where was the brawl? Instead we get one guy just doing the same three moves like he's got an unlimited finishers cheat unlocked and the other running and jumping around like an idiot for no reason. Having said that, I did say to friends beforehand the only person I would want to see Reigns defeat this year would have been Lesnar and so to get the opposite was something of a kick in the teeth, especially with the manner in which it happened which benefited neither. Only thing that will stick in my mind other than how bad it was is the frankly brutal amount of blood on show which was a big departure from the rest of the card which is the only thing that stops this getting a one star too. Frankly baffling piece of booking which leaves both of their futures somewhat uncertain.
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Authors of Pain vs Undisputed Era Fun opener, wasn't sure how the little and large dynamic would work in this one but both teams did a great job of putting it together. Love Authors of Pain look and they work well together in the ring, Undisputed Era did some great veteran work and kept a good pace throughout and AOP were great as the unlikely faces in peril. Thought the ending was really well done and suited that match well. *** 1/2 The Velveteen Dream vs Kassius Ohno Ohno frustrates me, he's someone I want to love, but something just doesn't click with me. I love big hard hitters, but his ring style and his look just doesn't gel for me. First time seeing Velveteen Dream, not sure about the name, sounds more like a nickname than a ring name but the gimmick looks interested, like a cross between Apollo Creed and Prince. These two didn't do nearly as well with the little and large dynamic as the first match, Dream looked far too small to be as dominant as he was and there was the odd sloppy moment, but all in all there's definitely potential there. Interesting to see where he ends up. ** Shayna Baszler vs Ember Moon Shayna was another first time for me but immediately made me take notice. Definitely has that unteachable vibe of badass about her and the little intro video was cool. Seen Ember a couple of times, gimmick does nothing for me but I like her ring style. Match was good, really put over Shayna well and you get the feeling she'll only get better from here while Ember did the battling champion bit well too. As others have said the armbar spot was poorly done, nearly Bret vs Backlund levels of ridiculousness but the finish worked, should have just happened way before it did. Did leave me wondering where Shayna fits in now they have Rousey though. *** Aleister Black vs Adam Cole Big fan of both of these two so I was really up for this match, but slightly apprehensive when I saw it was a hardcore match. As it happens I really enjoyed it, Black is someone that I could just watch all day, does some of the best looking strikes out there while his flips and highflying moves always look crisp too. Took a little while to get going but once they found their flow it really came together and it was great to see some innovative hardcore spots which is a tricky thing to pull off these days. Both the table spot and the announce table spot had me up off of the sofa and by the end I thought I'd easily found my match of the night. **** Johnny Gargano vs Andrade Cien Almas Didn't know much about Almas going into this but had seen quite a bit of Gargano's work and knew he was a solid hand, still didn't expect what I was about to watch though. I'm going to say it, this is an evolution point for pro-wrestling. Modern day spectacular moves combined with old school selling and psychology. The false finishes had me tricked each time, the big spots were performed flawlessly with each one making sense rather than just looking cool and by the end I was fully invested. The twist at the end sold it nicely too. This is what pro-wrestling is about. *****
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Introduction to the Board as a wrestling fan
Viking Hall replied to soup23's topic in Forums Feedback
Thanks for having me on board, I'm Will, I'm 30 and I live in Yorkshire, England. I've been watching wrestling on and off for probably about 20 years and got the bug when the Attitude Era hit its stride. First match I remember watching was a multi man tag match between Kaientai and The Oddities on RAW and was instantly hooked, with the members of Kaientai becoming long term favourites (I still consider their match at Barely Legal one of the best ever). I soon found myself back tracking when I discovered you could get late eighties and early nineties WWF VHS tapes cheap on market stalls and to this day I still have a soft spot for the New Generation era despite its obvious flaws. From there I began devouring magazines to keep up with what was going on elsewhere, at that time in the UK it was pretty much WWF or nothing in terms of what was broadcast with both WCW and ECW buried on obscure channels late at night so magazines were a godsend. WOW Magazine and PowerSlam were both particular favourites as they covered some indie and international promotions too, as well as a little of what was a very slowly reemerging UK scene at the time too. Soon after ECW DVDs became easier to find so I began amassing the essential shows and like many of my generation I was soon reeled in by the whole anti-establishment feel of it and although I'm not sure a lot of it has aged well, I still hold a lot of those shows in high regard simply because they introduced me to a lot of new styles, wrestlers as well as being a genuine alternative to the mainstream shows. I think like a lot of people I lost interest a year or two after WCW and ECW shut down, the Invasion angle soured me on the WWF/E and that combined with being a teenager and doing teenager things I found myself walking away in about 2003/4 I guess. After that happened, there really wasn't any alternatives at all in the UK, I think beyond maybe NWA: Hammerlock and FWA, British promotions were still basically seaside WWF rip off shows and certainly nowhere near as prevalent as they are today and TNA wouldn't show up on UK television until a couple of years after I stopped watching. I still kept my finger on the pulse though during that time, periodically checking forums and the like to see who was who but it would be a few years until I actually started watching again, partly due to a couple of my friends piquing my interest again and partly due to the growth of streaming and the like which made it easier to watch what I liked. Since then, while I wouldn't consider myself a hardcore viewer I do find myself watching quite a lot from all over the place and have also been to a few UK shows in the past couple of years too which has really got me interested in what's going on closer to home. Current favourites are Pete Dunne, Tyler Bate, Marty Scurll, Pentagon Jr, Asuka and Aleister Black but there's so much talent out there at the minute that it's becoming hard to narrow it down to a few. So yeah, that's me really, I look forward to get posting.