Big Pete

I see this more as a conversation about message boards and how youth culture interacts online as opposed to appealing to that teen-young adult demographic. Message boards are a completely archaic format that's only going to appeal to a niche audience who are either rusted on or they're just incredibly passionate. Otherwise young people are going to flock to new platforms where they can make their mark and hang out with their friends or people they can relate to. I still think there are young fans out there who enjoy talking Pro Wrestling, but they're on Twitter, Reddit, Discord etc. One positive has been the rise of video essays. There's a lot of content creators on youtube who are producing really well put together pieces on past shows that a younger audience can appreciate. As times goes on and generations become more tech savvy, I believe a lot of history will be preserved and there will be more discussions around these older figures and promotions.

I've never heard Jerry's Memphis stuff to compare, but I still found him to be very entertaining right up until he left the company in 2001. I thought his call of the Three Stages of Hell match in particular just added to the spectacle of the match. I'm sure Schiavone is glad to be back in Pro Wrestling and I'm glad to see him back, but sometimes it seems all he does is shill the product and it can ring so false at times. I'm not sure if it's because he's struggling to get a word in edgewise or not but at times he sounds so disingenuous. I'd still take him over Marvez everyday of the week though.

Guys like Heenan and Lawler weren't the most informative commentators but I found them entertaining. They made the telecast enjoyable to sit through since they typically had such good rapport with their co-commentators so it would lighten the mood and make the product more palatable. This was especially important because they had to call a lot of awful Pro Wrestling matches. Even before he was replaced on Nitro with Madden, Heenan was one of the few aspects of the show I found enjoyable. In contrast, today's commentary is just so expository that it makes it laborious to listen to. There's rarely any excitement in the commentary because these poor guys have a job to do and have to get a hundred points across in the match. It's why the only team that I find enjoyable to listen to is Excalibur and Taz. Excalibur is obviously very passionate about what he's calling, but he's got Taz there to bounce off of which makes Dark a far more entertaining show than it should be.

I was just listening to his NWA Invasion shoot so I can tell you he was off creative before the December 11th 1997 taping. Jim being Jim explained in explicit detail how he remembered that date so I have no reason to doubt the intel. I'll try to see if I can uncover his start date for you. I believe he mentioned it during his recap of the Michaels-Vader feud funnily enough. According to Jim, the stop-start was Patterson but he thought it was a good idea for what they had originally planned to do before HBK sandbagged it.

It was a receipt because Batista was critical of the OVW system because they limited what he could do and had to break all these habits once he hit the main roster. Cornette was very proud of Batista when he had him and declared he'd be the biggest star in Pro Wrestling in 5 years. However, since he felt betrayed he's been more critical of Dave and has basically painted him as this neurotic hypochondriac who always had some hang-up.

I should say whether he deserves the lion share of the credit for producing all these stars. I'm sure the show at the time was one of the best weekly television products in Pro Wrestling and he deserves credit for that. However, when people talk about the success of OVW it's usually based on the talent that came through the promotion like Brock Lesnar, Batista, John Cena, Randy Orton, Shelton Benjamin etc. Given the number of alterations the WWE went onto make with some of those guys and the quality of talent he had to work with, I don't necessarily view them as Cornette guys. He was certainly a part of the process but I'd sooner credit JR, Brisco and the recruitment team than Corny.

Matt Morgan falls into a similar category as Test as somebody who had all the tools but just couldn't put it together to build a compelling Pro Wrestling persona. In contrast somebody like Nathan Jones had an imposing look and a backstory that could make him an effective heel but there were clear signs he was never going to make it. I'm sure the OVW product was enjoyable to watch back in the day, but I tend to question whether Cornette deserves the lion share of the credit. To me it seems like JR/Brisco recruited all this amazing talent and the guys that Cornette considered stars either had their gimmicks completely overhauled on the main roster or they barely made a dint on the main roster. The few exceptions were can't miss talents like Brock Lesnar and Randy Orton who was called up prematurely.

Good point and I can see that likely be the reason. I just think you could do that and make the interim champion look credible at the same time.

I would say it was whenever they decided to have him cash in his briefcase at TLC but retain the briefcase, so sometime back in December. While I'm sure they went back and forth on it, I'm confident they also wanted to make Miz' actual WWE Championship win look as unlikely as possible to make the outcome as shocking as possible. I personally don't think it helps anybody to book in that fashion, but I think that's their rationale. I'd be up for that as well and think it would be a much better outcome than having Drew win it back right away.

Again, TTK can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Cornette has ever blamed "Hulk Hogan Buck" on the state of Professional Wrestling. That appears to be his biggest pet peeve with the Buck because he doesn't buy Matt Jackson as an ass-kicker and finds those comeback spots to be phony. With Cornette it's more about the lack of characters with big personalities who come across as genuine. While there's some exceptions like Eddie Kingston and Darby Allin he finds there's a lot of people who are just goofing off and making light of the ridiculous angles they're caught up in. I don't think he wants a no-frills show either. Cornette has spoken at length about how boring he finds NXT and how it does a poor job of promoting it's talent despite having a really good roster to work with. It's less offensive than a show like Dynamite, Raw or SmackDown but it's just spinning it's wheels as well.

It's just an odd choice. The Miz and Morrison have been prominent characters and have been getting caught up in other people's business, but they've largely just been portrayed as annoying goons who's shtick involves awful parodies of wrestlers. It seemed like the briefcase was just a way of protecting Otis, I don't see how this improves the show. It just comes across like the WWE haven't really set anything interesting up, so they've tried to pull the rug out from everyone to stir some controversy heading into Wrestlemania. It's one of those cases where they could have had their cake by giving The Miz some momentum before the title win. Now it just seems like a total scrub has the belt hostage and even if Drew wins it back immediately, he's still lost more momentum losing it in the first place. Still, I'm curious to check both Chamber matches out. It sounded like Cesaro had one of his better nights out in the SmackDown Chamber which I'm excited to see.

Alright I listened to Omega's shoot with Brian Meyers. Keep in mind, the format of the shoot appears to be him shooting the shit with his buddies so stories are clearly being embellished to make them more entertaining. Omega basically portrays Johnny Ace as a love-struck teenager who has a huge crush on Kenny. Anyways, according to Omega on Day 3 of the camp, Harley Race revealed that the grand prize wasn't a spot in NOAH, but actually the WWE. He brought in Johnny Ace and tried to promote Keith Walker and Dakota but Harley was unimpressed with both but took an instant liking to Omega because he resembled Brian Pillman. They then had to work a practice match where Kenny was paired off with Keith Walker. Keith Walker ate Kenny up during the entire match until Lauranaitis intervened and criticised Walker. He then made Walker switch out with Dakota who worked that junior heavyweight style. It's here Kenny claims where he busted Dakota's nose. Kenny called a back elbow and Dakota tried to take an inside out bump off of it, but ended up busting his nose when he fall onto the mat. Harley then called a halt to the match and tried to criticise Omega but Lauranaitis called Harley out. Kenta Kobashi who was also there sided with Lauranaitis and supposedly argued with Johnny that he wanted to sign Omega. What doesn't add up is that the trainer who write into Cornette's show claimed the mix-up happened on the first day when Omega botched a basic drill. That's why Omega was sent to the beginner's group before Trevor Murdoch brought him back to the main group to work matches. It's amazing how different the tone of the story was. In the RF shoot, Omega doesn't even talk about Johnny Ace and skips straight from being bullied by Harley and swindled of his time and money straight into the hell that was the Bill DeMott regime.

Thanks for the breakdown @The Thread Killer and I believe Jim has specifically referred to both those points in the past. The criticisms surrounding Omega's selling in particular ring a bell and if memory serves Jim also believed HBK had better timing. I actually went back and listened to Omega's RF Video Shoot in the hopes that he would cover his run in DDT but he barely scratched the surface. He did go into detail about the Harley Race Camp and how it all transpired from his perspective. So in 2004 he worked an NWA show with Petey Williams in Winnipeg. Off of that match, he was put onto a mailing list and was informed a NOAH camp was taking place in Missouri where Kenta Kaboshi, KENTA and Naomichi Marufuji would be in attendance. Despite it being a very costly trip, Omega went out of his way to attend because he was desperate to get into NOAH. Now in Omega's mind, the whole camp was a farce because the 'winner' was supposed to appear on the show, but posters were already up around the town with the full card. This observation confuses me somewhat because Omega doesn't specifically say that it included one of Harley's students, that's the implication, but he doesn't specifically say. I would not be surprised at all if they announced a full card, but saved that try-out match as a bonus. So they get to the portion of the camp where the groups get divided into two and Omega claims that when Harley got to the list name, he starred directly at Omega but said somebody else's name. Confused, Omega approached Harley and said this must be some kind of mistake and Harley assured him otherwise. In near tears, Omega was approached by Trevor Murdoch who told him he'd smooth things over with Harley if he'd just come along and work on his fundamentals. Omega claims Murdoch was a really good guy and was actually the Raw Tag Team Champion around this time, which would date this around September 2005. Now this is why I'm confused. I did some sleuthing on CageMatch.com and had a look at all the shows Omega worked in Missouri. There was the infamous 2/3 Falls match with PAC but there was also a match against Keith Walker from September 2005 where Kenta Kaboshi happened to be in the main event. So that suggests to me that he did infact get his opportunity despite claims that he messed up simple drills during the camp. Being an RF video shoot, they just skipped a huge chunk of time and Rob just went straight into WWE Developmental where he did his usual line of questioning where he runs through a list of guys and never follows up on anything. There's another shoot with Brian Meyers, Kevin Matthews and Sami Callihan where he goes into more detail that I'm hoping to check out. But like the foot injury, it seems like Omega has an interesting version of the truth.

I think fans confuse what Cornette actually wants out of the product. He doesn't necessarily want a sports-based product, he wants television stars who are larger than life and come across as genuine people. He doesn't necessarily hate comedy in Pro Wrestling, but he believes there's a time and place and when you start incorporating that into high stakes matches it takes away from the match. The same deal with hardcore wrestling where it just goes too far and doesn't even resemble a wrestling match or even a fight. While a sports-based presentation lends itself to that, he's generally been very complimentary towards guys like Eddie Kingston and Darby Allin who don't fit the mould. The reason being, they either treat themselves seriously or they have enough charisma that can be marketed heavily. Jim doesn't have time for the Young Bucks because they don't really have characters. Jim has often said they could work as obnoxious heels but since they're not really committing to any characters it's hard to get invested. His biggest issue is their comebacks and how Matt Jackson will Hulk Up to absolutely absurd lengths. One point I'd be curious to find out and I'm not sure if @The Thread Killer would know, but has Jim ever been able to distinguish between why he's happy to call Shawn Michaels one of the best of all-time, but not Kenny Omega? You would think a lot of the complaints he has against Omega about the theatrics and referring to himself as the best performer could be levelled at Shawn? The only time I've really only heard them compared is when Jim points out that he is able to see through his bias' and will compliment people he dislikes even if he hates them. Outside of that, I think Jim is fine with comedy being in the show, as long as it serves the show in some fashion and it comes off as organic. When there is obvious co-operation, or they're filming it like it's a television show that's what he personally hates. Especially since it came into vogue during Russo's tenure in the WWF. Essentially above all else, Jim wants to see stars on the shows and he just doesn't seen that in the Chuck Taylors, Marko Stunts, Rihos, Orange Cassidys etc. who are either niche characters or just utter goofballs.

Listening to it again, it does start off cheesy and Omega rushed through everything he was saying. However, he did eventually convey passion, sold a fight and didn't do anything goofy afterwards to undermine the segment.

Is that the same story where he and his girlfriend got into an argument after Hogan appeared on the Arsenio Hall Show and she smashed a banana in his face? So then when they broke up, Meltzer fantasy booked himself getting his receipt? Or is there another banana story he's been holding out on us?

To give Omega some credit, that was actually a decent promo to end the show. There were a couple of moments where it seemed like he was taking the piss but he quickly reigned it in and just cut a straight-up promo. Overall, I thought the entire show was lacking. The only match I cared to see was Serena and Riho and of course they threw it into the middle of the show where they had an ad-break ruin the flow of the match. The rest of the card was just filled with match-ups that I didn't care to see. Even something like Bucks/Santana-Ortiz which should be a big deal felt lacking because Santana-Ortiz have been woefully out of form and have done nothing to earn their opportunity. I understand the show was all about promoting Revolution, but they could have done a much better job of balancing it.

I'm not saying anything about their personal relationship which is none of my business, but as a promotional tactic, they treated their tag team as a joke and were losing matches because they were too busy making out, obviously playing it as a laugh. In the context of the Bullet Club obviously there were some moments where they played it straight, but in typical fashion they had to throw some goofy details in there.

Their friendship or whatever you want to call it came off real but the storyline surrounding the Bullet Club and The Elite was constantly undermined by bad acting and silly scenarios. I'm glad you were able to come around and find a way to enjoy Omega. Kenny has plenty of positive qualities to focus on as well, but there's also a disingenuousness that shines through that creates an unnecessary barrier to his work.

Do you mean the storyline where he dressed up as a bear to surprise attack Cody? Or the ho-yay tag team with Ibushi where their finisher is the Golden Shower and their background is working together in a comedy federation? The only time I can recall him not undermining his performance was in the build up to Okada/Omega IV and that's because he didn't have time to cut one of his promos where it sounds like he's at karaoke and he starts bizarrely singing parts of his promo out.

I take your point, but I also take Cornette's. Yes, there is a level of showmanship in Pro Wrestling, The People's Elbow is the most ridiculous move in Pro Wrestling, but The Rock could convey passion whereas Omega has this aloofness to him that prevents him from displaying that. It's like he's worried that one of his non-Pro Wrestling friends is going to find him having a genuine moment so he does anything in his power to cut the tension with some goofy spot. Some people can look past that and some can even appreciate it. However, it's there and if it's not your cup of tea then you're going to struggle with Omega. On its own it isn't bad but when Jim starts throwing in words like effeminate and sissy which he tends to do when he gets going you can see what picture he's trying to paint.

One could argue that those predilections were only made public during the speaking out movement when he and his wife were publically shamed. However, it's still inappropriate for Jim to jump to those conclusions with Omega. Even Brian pushed back on it during the last episode of Experience, even though he also thought Itoh came across really poorly during her segment. Jim walks a fine line with Omega and he usually ends up crossing it. I think he has a point about Omega being too theatrical in the ring and on the microphone, it's tough to buy into him as a genuine performer. However it's usually followed by some homophobic comment which is completely unnecessary.

I don't have much to contribute other than to say I really enjoy these recaps and even when I've listened to something that's been covered it's been nice to go over it again and pick up things that may have eluded me the first time. What I like specifically about your style TK is that you really capture the tone of what's being said. It's so easy to take a Cornette or a Bischoff out of context and go 'oh how horrible' but when you see the context it makes far more sense. As somebody who adored @El-P WCW recaps, these are some of my favourite reads on the internet.

AEW was ready to rock the boat and while there's no telling what this will lead to with TNA it's sparked discussion and speculation. I trust Don Callis will be a wonderful fit and will know how to play his role effectively and only enhance Kenny's image. It's refreshing to see a promotion strike while the iron is hot. Logic would dictate that Omega/Moxley is a PPV match, but it would have been so difficult to put together compelling television between those dates. This move spices the promotion up and ensures fans will be talking about it over the holiday break.

I would have to watch it again with fresh eyes to form a definitive opinion, but on first view it appeared that FTR were utterly clueless in the opening stanza when they had all the momentum. Outside of the one spot where Dax ran into Cash while he had the leg lock in, it just seemed like they were going through the motions which was disappointing in a big match like this. Cash actually went for a number of high spots and blew all of them which buried him. If they had have done it where Cash took the Bucks by surprise with some surprising athleticism and then got too full of himself it would have worked, but here it just made him look like a choke artist. It wasn't a bad match, certainly somewhere in the Top 10 AEW Tag Team matches, but I'd have a hard time recommending it over other Bucks or Revival matches.