strobogo

I've mentioned it multiple times in multiple threads that I've been going through the AJ Archive and I'm into the middle of 1986 and can not stand Choshu at this point. Anything that goes over 10 minutes is guaranteed to be mostly Choshu sitting in half of a scorpion deathlock which will never end a match unless it is a very low ranking member of a tag or six man being put in it. Singles matches, as few and far between as they are in AJPW, are full of blatant filler and bullshit finishes no matter the length. You can be pretty well assured he's going to take your finish and then pop up to hit you with a backdrop or lariat with in 45 seconds. In a tag, he does nothing, lets his teammates carry the whole match, then pops in to no sell a finish and hit a lariat or find something else to do while his team mate drops a fall. For whatever he added to AJPW's over all match style, by mid 1986 he's such an albatross and I dread anything he's in. At that time, the Calgary Hurricanes are far more exciting and have more heated matches than anything Choshu and his group are doing. Choshu's revolution lasted about 4-6 months before it was stale, or more specifically, HE was stale. His single matches suck, the tags his crew are in that don't feature him at all are routinely better. Can not wait for this little shit to go back to New Japan. Of all the big legends in puro, Choshu has to be the guy I like the least.

It took probably until 2015 until Okada started to click for me, and I agree with all criticisms in this thread. I've come to be less and less interested in his work outside of the G1 because of the main event style default becoming longer and longer in NJ leading to the boring first 15-20 minutes of work that goes nowhere. There's also certainly a too much too soon factor with him where he broke basically every achievement there is to have in the company by the time he was 30 which leads to things like "he's bored and knows he's going to get the title back multiple times so he's going to try to use this shitty submission no one likes and looks lame for a year just to challenge himself". Unless NJ booking continues to be so dull and uninteresting, it's impossible to think he's not somewhere on the list in 5 years.

Did they look anywhere near as good as they looked in Japan, though?

I don't love that part and it also made me sick and furthermore headbutts in NJ since drive me nuts. There's literally zero reason to do real fucking headbutts in a fake fight.

Yeah the real world is people in WWE don't resign in protest over problem people being hired. And if they happened to in this case, it wouldn't be anyone of importance to the company as the top 3 women have an existing relationship with her that they've kept before, during, and after her unprofessional behavior. I think she's talented, but I have no stake in her. I wouldn't hire her if I were running a company not because some people might hypothetically get upset, but because she's an unprofessional asshole and has proven it multiple times in multiple promotions. Just like I wouldn't hire Austin Aries, Low Ki, or Teddy Hart for the same reasons. You seem to think I'm defending her or just a mark for her when instead all I'm saying no one is going to walk out of WWE if they decide they want to hire her some day, and anyone that would is not someone WWE would give a shit about walking out anyway. I really don't think anyone in AEW would, either, should they decide to take the chance on her.

The Bryan/Nigel match with the ring post headbutt spot disgusted me so much I completely gave up on indie wrestling probably until up to 2015 or so when I'd occasionally find a PWG show to watch.

That makes sense but it's still funny to me. I occasionally will get a notice about some Memphis or 70s AJPW stuff I have up, I think even some JWA stuff, and it will come years after its been uploaded.

Worst rings to bump in: Lucha rings 40s/50s/60s that just used boxing rings WWF from late 80s to the early Attitude Era Because I've actually bumped in a boxing ring before and it didn't seem nearly as awful as when you see bumps in the WWF ring especially 1989-1992ish but the 1994 rings also seemed absolutely brutal

I know you're not asking me and this isn't specific to Choshu vs Fujinami matches, but fuck Choshu's spending anywhere from 25 to 50% of any given match over 10 minutes sitting in half a scorpion is coming off as the laziest shit and blatant filler while he waits to pop up after someone's finish and win with a lariat or just happen to be distracted while his partner drops a fall.

Her relationship to three of the four most heavily pushed women in the company is totally immaterial to anything? Lol. She's been training with Sasha and Bayley post Impact debacle. Who is going to walk out and who is big enough to make WWE decide against hiring her if they want to?

She has a relationship with Sasha, Bayley, and Charlotte. Also, I find it hard to believe anyone is going to walk over a hire outside of maybe Joey Ryan in either company. In fact, I can't think of anytime someone has been hired in WWE and anyone quit out of protest.

Shibata/Okada is a pretty specific story with specific character dynamics that couldn't be replicated with any two other wrestlers. Okada being Okada and booked like Okada is completely essential to the match, as is Shibata's history, style, and personality/persona. This match couldn't have been replicated even with Tana/Shibata, which has their own pretty specific history and story for their matches but is quite different. It's important to Okada's career narrative as well, and if Gedo wasn't so lazy, it would play into NJ lore like so many of the 70s/80s/90s matches, but instead it kind of gets swept into a corner because of Shibata braining himself.

Both the Owen and Rumble match with Diesel I could find in pieces but one part missing for both so I didn't include since I mean surely everyone posting here has seen both many times anyway and I had their other matches in the series so whatever. I was pretty amused I could easier find fan cams from the 90s than some stuff that aired on TV and was up on the Network for years.

Without spending excessive time searching, here's nearly everything on Grimmas' Bret top 100 list. A handful of matches I couldn't find at all, some are split up into parts, and a couple I could only find by looking up the entire tape they were included on. The Rumble 1995 and WM Owen match I could not find online, which is wild. Bret top 100 playlist

If I had to guess, probably from his WWF run as basically everyone coming in from Japan had looked not good in the WWF basically up to Asuka, or at least Tajiri.

Shibata/Okada might be the match of the past decade, so that has to be a solid check in his resume

Agree he was actually a better brawler, but disagree about his matwork. His technique on everything was so good. Excellence of Execution really is among the most accurate wrestling nick names of all time.

Tenryu going out almost paralyzing Okada sure was something

I love Bret, love his mind and approach, love his technique. It sucks that because of how WWE operated, he really only had a handful of big matches with other stars on TV or PPV for his prime, but almost all are excellent and varied. Pretty much everyone has their best matches with Bret. The two classics with Owen in completely different styles, Two classics with Bulldog in completely different styles Two classics with Austin in completely different styles (Personally I prefer the Survivor Series match) I would suggest the best matches in Razor's run only the WM X ladder match being even in the discussion Two of the best three matches of Kevin Nash's career (and they also continued to have great chemistry even in WCW, even at Nash's laziest and Bret in jorts with scrambled egg brains) The best 123 Kid match The best match of the Steiners' WWF run The best match of Bam Bam's WWF run(s) Two classics with Mr. Perfect in pretty different styles Probably the best match of Flair's first WWF run The best match of Piper's career, certainly his WWF run at the very least A lot of really good matches with HBK, weirdly most before either were truly established as top guys. His WCW run was what it was, but there still were some good highlights like Bret vs Flair, Bret vs Hennig, Bret vs Savage, Bret/Hogan vs Savage/Piper which was way better than it had any right to be especially as it involved 1998 Hogan, Piper, Macho with one leg, and unmotivated and also likely injured WCW Bret, of course the Benoit match but there were also a couple of TV matches with Benoit before the Owen tribute that were also good TV matches, a good TV match with Dean, a good Nitro match with Booker, and the aforementioned 2000 Nitro match with Nash which is easily the best thing Nash had been involved with probably since 1997 and Bret's brains were completely fucked. There's a lot of 80s stuff I never really got to dig into because cutting through Prime Time and the Old School shows was just too much for me, but I do remember a really strong MSG or Philly match with The Barbarian, and another with Taker in 1991 that was actually my favorite of all the Bret/Taker matches because I think their 1996-1997 matches suck. I'm going to dig through that top 100 matches and find some new Bret stuff to watch for sure. Bret had such a way of just feeling realer than everyone. It's a weird thing but what has always stuck out to me was the way his legs would lay after a bump. I can't explain it, but others probably understand what I'm talking about and it probably sticks out to them, too. At this point I almost forget about the Hart Foundation as a tag, and now that I'm remembering some of those matches, man what a great.

laughs in gedo

I definitely do not think it is reasonable to hold NJ tags against anyone, and in fact I'd say anyone who actually watches all the Road To shows is a masochist in the same way anyone who watches Raw and SD every week is.

I have a singles match with Baba on the rec list but can't remember anything about it. There were a lot of Baba/Jumbo vs Oki/Duk tags and the two from 1976 were the only ones that stood out at all, but they were awesome. Otherwise I have this: 7/6/79 Giant Baba-Rocky Hata vs. Kintaro Oki-Moose Morowski Recommended and that seems really hard to believe to my eyes now. I must have been in a good mood that day or something.

There's an excellent Baba/Jumbo vs Oki/Kim Duk from 10/28/76 that is just a super hateful tag you'd much more associate with the Choshu or Jumbo vs Misawa eras that is definitely a must see. They have a rematch on 12/9/76 that is around the same level.

Low Ki's "I'll expose my immune system and build an immunity" is less annoying and stupid than "Veganism will protect me", I guess.

It was pretty neat seeing JWA stuff where Baba was just like...a normal wrestler who happened to be giant. And he could really go in his younger days. I'd say he starts to truly start slowing down in 1975-1977 but still is capable of great stuff even in a singles role and then spends damn near 20 years as a more mobile late stage Andre in terms of doing what he does well and not trying things he can't do anymore, but it all makes sense and there are still times even all the way up to the first AJ dome show where he can still be pretty enjoyable.