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Everything posted by Ma Stump Puller
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More threads like these Introduction Osamu Nishimura is one of my favourite wrestlers, but his coverage outside of his greatest hits is immensely lacking. I really wanted to get this made as a way to show off the vast versatility of the guy, while also being able to showcase his strengths and weaknesses in a pretty accurate manner. For the sake of changing things up I also wanted to cover him using a Gordy List, because why not? I'm going to go though essentially all of the questions to really discuss how he rules, as well as throw out some match suggestions. "1. What kind of candidate is this wrestler (Peak vs Longevity,Peak+ Longevity, Big Match Wrestler, Week to Week Performer etc) and what range would you consider ranking them?" I think Nishimura fits a good few of these and isn't easily squished into any single one of them. He can do BIG match wrestling with the best of his time, his longevity is insane (basically the same quality of matches from 1998 to now) and his consistency week to week is high-standard. Nishimura is someone who could easily work with anything on the table and make the best out of it, even if it's complete rubbish. "2. What is your elevator pitch for this wrestler to be a Top 100 Wrestler? (Sum up their case in a short paragraph)." Osamu Nishimura can get a extended surfboard spot over in big workrate main event showings. He is capable of getting a audience to max capacity volume with roll-ups and basic holds/submissions, knowing how to get the very most out of the basic fundamentals. He's one of the greatest carriers of all time in terms of workrate and has a insane backlog of wrestlers that have had some of their best showings against him in less than stellar conditions. Simply put, he's a master workhorse that doesn't even need to work that hard ultimately to get anything over because he's just that good at pacing simple work brilliantly, but if he has to make you look good then he's more than capable of doing so. "3. Were they ever the best wrestler in the world? Were they ever the best wrestler in their country? Were they ever the best wrestler in their promotion? Who were some of their competitors for the best wrestler in the world, country, and promotion?" I would say no: even in his peak years (early to mid 2000's) Nishimura WAS one of the best workers in NJPW, but he wasn't the best as a whole. Worldwide he'd be probably top 10 at his peak, which isn't a bad thing obviously but still. Guys like Nagata itch him out quality-wise, guys like Takayama, Tenryu and Muto also had better peak years at the time. I don't think Nishimura ever was on their level but he got pretty damn close, especially in 2002 where he was having multiple amazing showcases: Iizuka, Shiga, Bas, Nagata, Takayama, Akiyama, Tenzan, Nakanishi.....like this is all from the same year, and it's just the best matches from there, at times back to back in gruelling G1 showings. He isn't the peak best at any point in my opinion, but his consistency for those years is unmatched. "4. How many years were they a top worker (top worker being a candidate for top 10 wrestler in the world)? Nishimura can be easily considered a top 10 wrestler up until the late 2000's. Every year you have him having good reliable showings that easily stick him alongside the best of the best. He only truly starts to fall off here when he leaves AJPW to go do Muga bookings, and that's ONLY because so little of that got onto tape (the Fujinami/Saito/Kawada showings are all respectfully quite damn solid to be fair) when he got back he pretty much went right back to having bangers. He falls off completely when AJPW keep sticking him in shitty vet 6-man showings with guys like Great Kabuki or Dory Funk Jr, who obviously can't really give much on their end or he's forced to tag with people like Kenzo Suzuki who needless to say isn't very good. His part-time status due to his political campaigning also harms his placing given he wasn't wrestling much at all during those times. "5. Were they a great worker before their prime? Were they a great worker after their prime? How great were they (were they a best in the world, country, promotion candidate while before their prime/after their prime)" This is the sticker for ranking the guy: Nishimura's earlier days were.....ehhh. He's a pretty weird Young Lion in that his fundamentals are fine, but he is kinda forced to be a Jr heavyweight as he's so small and lacking in mass so they have him do these terrible moonsaults and other flippy stuff that he just isn't suited for. He has a strange ECW run where he gets some decent showings with guys like Benoit and a surprisingly strong technical match with AI Snow, but he also has bad performances with Sabu and Shane Douglas. Up until 1998 (which is his breakout year easily) he's positioned as a generic undercard tag worker, forced to take beatings and spam dropkicks so that his bigger-name partners look good for the hot tag. He does have some decent 1997 German Catch work alongside everything else where you can see him put the pieces together for his reinvention when he returns but pre-prime Nishimura was a shaky performer depending on who he was with. "6. Did they have the opportunities to produce a large body of excellent matches? IF YES 6a Do they have a large body of excellent matches? Absolutely. Starting from 1998 Nishimura every year from there has a HUGE body of incredible showings, easily able to work with virtually anyone given the conditions. There's not one year from then where you can't find at least a few standout performances out of him. 6b Do they have a large body of excellent matches against a variety of opponents? Once again, yes: Nishimura has a fantastic history of getting guys like Tenzan, Suwama, Yasuda, Bob Sapp, Nakanishi, Hama and other smashmouth power wrestlers to some of their most protracted yet great showings, sometimes even multiple times year by years as shown by his history of carrying Tenzan in G1 performances (someone who historically had a bad gastank for longer matches). He can make older performers like Fujinami, Roy St Clair, Dory Funk Jr, Hiro Saito, Kengo Kimura and co look good for their advanced age, managing to patiently work at their pace while not exposing their limitations and allowing for their best qualities to come forward. He can take complete nobodies to decent showings: just check out his long history of carrying random ass Dory-trainees who frequently only had a couple of weeks at best of wrestling training on Youtube. There's very little he can't not work well with, so much so that actually bad matches tangibly stand out massively as a result, as opposed to other top 100 contenders who have entire years full of stinkers to pick out. 6c Do they have a large body of excellent matches in a variety of settings? (for example singles, tags, gimmicks, no gimmicks, brawls, technical, short matches, long matches etc) Nishimura has worked all of these styles basically to perfection in his long history. He's not much of a gimmick guy but he works surprisingly well with comedy given his HUSTLE stint as essentially a eccentric Zen Monk-type and some of the more silly stuff he did in Muto-era AJPW. Nishimura isn't also mega focused on brawls.....but with guys like Suzuki or Suwama, he's more than happy to scrap it out with them and get a lot more aggressive. Tag matches he fits in like a glove, including a standout performance holding his own reaction-wise with Tenzan and Nagata in a 06.03.2004 tag where he's mostly having to share the ring with big lumps like Norton, but he works his aspect of the match so well up into the finish that it gets pretty damn big reactions as this badass giant killer. Nishimura can work 30+ minute showings basically just off the cuff, he has probably one of the best gas tanks I've seen in terms of how long he can work without looking sloppy or gassed. You will never see him flub a spot late into a match or look distracted. 6d How much of those excellent matches were a direct result of their performance?" Obviously Nishimura doesn't carry all of the workload, but with many of the guys I mentioned above, he's easily carrying them to better performances than standard. Suwama is infamous for being rather poor in long matches, but Nishimura is one of the few to not be effected by this, instead getting some of his best early showings, even being trusted to be his first ever Triple Crown opponent by Muto to truly get over the future ace. Same with Tenzan, same with Sapp (who somehow manages to look good in a technical sequence with him??) etc etc. Many of his matches are paced in such a way where you know it's all on his side (a lot of focus on nifty Catch sequences) so there's no subtlety in that regard. "7. Do they have a large body of excellent performances in a variety of roles (heel/face, undercard/midcard/main event, champion/challenger, underdog/favorite, younger/older etc)" This is slightly tricky because Nishimura doesn't really wrestle "heel" per-se. He's not someone who's rubbing their hands together and doing evil laughs if that's what you consider being a good heel as. He'll definitely work a Bret-style subtle heel against bigger babyfaces or rookie talent, dominating longer than usual and using smart cut-offs to get sympathy for them, but a outright heel performance? Doesn't really exist. Nishimura wrestles nearly all of his early career as a undercard underdog made to get the hot tags over, a task that he does pretty well from the footage available. He is able to wrestle competent matches wherever on the card, either in nothing 6-man vet tags, comedy openers, random indie matchups, etc. He's a fantastic challenger, getting bigger reactions than Triple Crown Kawada and stealing the thunder from NJPW Champ-era Nagata and Sasaki respectfully, not including everything else on the table. Nishimura really doesn't change much as he gets older: he gets less opportunities to show off with better workers (not helped by horrendous AJPW booking) but when he gets the spotlight, he's the same as he was 20 years ago, just slower and less high paced. He really has not aged much in-ring at all probably helped by his low-impact style and next to perfect consistency in the ring never botching or looking sloppy. "8. Do they work in a way that is consistent with the way they're booked & presented?" Again, tricky question. Nishimura as a Young Lion worked as a generic Jr heavyweight; pretty bad all things considered, not his fault given the cards he was dealt. Fortunes change in 1998 when he starts to get featured more in extended feuds as a no-nonsense old-school grappler under the teachings of MUGA-era Fujinami and he carries that rep all the way throughout his career. He's someone who is defined by his technical excellence, which needless to say, he backs up aplenty. "9. What are their standout traits? (For example, selling, psychology, offense, character work etc)" Nishimura's best features come from how he presents himself uniquely from his peers at the time. He's in a world of Strong Style/puro bombs, something that he simply put isn't GOOD at whatsoever. He can't finish matches with strikes alone, he usually gets overpowered in extended brawls, he can't land big bombs at all by contrast and doesn't have the size or strength to run people over. Nishimura shows off those negatives so that audiences sympathise with him massively but also allows him to throw in his counter-heavy style, which is immensely dynamic and utterly unpredictable most of the time. He has to grind guys down with holds and smart work to get around all of his clear disadvantages. His character work in that aspect is sensational and the fact that he can turn on a dime when he's in his element (like, say, Muga showings, more technical showcases) to a more confident and vicious opponent shows that it is definitely deliberate on his part and not just a quirk that happens to exist when he's facing against these bigger wrestlers. For me, Nishimura's strengths come from his nuance when working. He isn't someone who will wow you with spots, but little things, like selling the leg by hopping over for his Cobra Twist on his good leg or having to hit his strikes with said good leg for leverage so he doesn't fall over are things that award you for watching the wrestling carefully. His psychology is fantastic; he knows what to do at all times and how it makes sense according to the logic above. Barring maybe his weird 1998 Sasaki showing where he turns into a weird spot/brawler guy for one night only, he's internally very consistent. 10. Did they make the people and workers around them better? Again, absolutely so. Nishimura is kinda infamous for his ability to carry virtually anyone to a good showing, even if he's not putting in a lot of effort. he's good with decent to ok workers, he's great with good to solid workers, and he can be unbelievably solid with the right wrestler alongside him. His internal consistency allows for Young Lions and the like to shine when having to handle him in the ring pretty easily. It might be what actually harms him later on as he keeps getting used as someone who can work very well with rookies and older acts rather than actually wrestling good wrestlers. He's in many respects the Japanese Arn Anderson in this aspect, but I'd argue with a much higher ceiling. 11. Is there any reason to believe that this wrestler was better or worse than they appeared? This is also tricky. Some people kinda just insist he's a Dory Funk Jr tribute act when in reality, he's someone who combines a ton of different wrestling styles (German/British Catch, Fujinami stuff, Dory Funk spots, Inoki-lite bits etc) alongside his own unique blend of counter-heavy roll-up technique into something truly unique in the wrestling scene. No one truly wrestles like Nishimura, and I don't think we'll ever see someone like him again. 12. If you had to pick 5-10 matches (Or more) to sell someone on this wrestler what would they be? (Not necessarily the best matches but ones that are best representative of the wrestlers’ GWE case) Ok so the best to sell to someone who knows nothing about Nishimura and wants to get what the fuss is: Masakazu Fukuda (15.05.1998) & Yuki Ishikawa vs. Shinichi Nakano & Tatsumi Fujinami (03.03.1998) Yuji Nagata (08.08.2002) Shinsuke Nakamura (28.08.2002) Yoshihiro Takayama (10.08.2002) Suwama (28.06.2008) also watch their equally as good 15 minute Champion Carnival showing (08.04.2008) Tatsumi Fujinami (25.09.2006, Fuji's last truly great showing) Tajiri Series (23.09.2007/08.08.2013) Takashi Iizuka (06.10.2002) Toshiaki Kawada (03.09.2004) Jun Akiyama (11.08.2003) Watch all of these and you'll get only about a quarter of his truly great showings. It's a good foundation though, wide versatility. 13. Feel free to recommend more matches here if you like! Koji Kanemoto (08.08.2004) Yoon Kang Chul (27.09.2018) Kentaro Shiga (29.08.2002) Kengo Kimura Retirement (18.04.2003) Basically all of his early 2000's G1 showings W/ Manabu Nakanishi vs. Bob Sapp & Shinsuke Nakamura (03.11.2003) W/ Tenzan vs Ryusuke Taguchi & Shinsuke Nakamura (19.07.2004) W/ Muto vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi & Shinsuke Nakamura (09.10.2004) W/ Nakanishi vs. Hiroyoshi Tenzan & Masahiro Chono (05.06.2002) Minoru Suzuki (04.08.2005) vs Suwama (AJPW Pro-Wrestling Love In Taiwan/11.20.2009) w/ Joe Malenko vs Masakatsu Funaki & Minoru Suzuki (Real World Tag League/11.20.2010) 14. Any final thoughts you’d like to share? Nishimura only has a few people that he truly doesn't work really that great with: in this case, the only two that properly come to mind are Keiji Muto and Chono. Muto for some reason just doesn't click with Nishimura's more subdued work: they try on two separate occasions (2001 and 2004 respectfully) to get a dynamic going and it just never comes, idk if it's down to Muto just not really vibing with another person who's very ground-heavy but it's very much a big factor. Chono is less extreme but Nishimura seems to bring out the worst in him in terms of his tendency to drag out holds, sit in them for years before doing the bare minimum, much less of the great brawler that he was much more comfortable being at this point. In both of these cases it's not really Nishimura's fault, he's still as motivated as ever however just can't drag amazing quality like he typically can. I think it's also crazy that we also don't have access to a lot of Nishimura's potentially great showings: a lot of the Gaora Sports era of AJPW is still very poorly circulated, including a entire 2009 Champion Carnival stint involving a rematch with Takayama and a 30 minute draw with Kaz Hayashi just missing that I would imagine could be excellent This is also not including the fact that a vast majority of the Fujinami MUGA stuff from 2006/2007 when he was working as THE ace of the promotion also just doesn't exist, which is a shame given how extensively it featured him in a leading role. Despite this he's still got a ton of fantastic showings, and I hope that this has at least been educational as to what those are. For fun, here's a quick top five worst Nishimura showings 1. Dory Funk Jr. (28.11.2018: just a sad performance really, I don't like watching this) 2. Rikiya Fudo (11.06.2017: Nishimura does his best Hogan impression) 3. vs "brother" YASSHI (09.12.2007: just a bad comedy match) 4. W/ Jinsei Shinzaki vs Makai #1 (Super Strong Machine) & Tadao Yasuda (23.09.2003: everyone is waiting for Onita/Sasuke, NO one gives a shit about this) 5. Vs Sabu (03.03.1995: Botches galore, never gets going) Thank you for reading!
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Comments that don't warrant a thread - Part 4
Ma Stump Puller replied to TravJ1979's topic in Pro Wrestling
For specifics, I think I remember seeing Briscoe and co show up for the Baba Birthday Special show when rewatching all of the stuff from that year (23.01.1998) and being curious why they of all people were there. I guess I know now, lol -
He mostly gets stuck into the role of gatekeeper and reliable act who can work with the new guys, so nothing as extended as the Kid match sadly. His series with Naohiro Hoshikawa is as close as possible to that given the dynamics of their matches together, with the second showing in particular being a really good example of that. He on occasion will have fun outings with future stars like Hi69 or Ryuji Hijikata in shortish stints, as well as having a long standing thing with Sugamoto where he just grinds the guy down every time they meet. That said footage from that time is still pretty varied so it is rather tricky to find much at all.
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I did watch him vs Akebono and Takayama and thought he was a fun act with surprisingly good wrestling chops for a comedic gag act. That said, his shtick does run a bit thin once you've watched a good few of his matches, I'd say Don Arakawa or Munenori Sawa are more complete acts with better matches to boot.
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It's a big shame that due to bad timing and some other external factors (Hashimoto leaving NJPW shortly after Nishimura returned from cancer treatment) this is the only singular time these two would share a ring in a singles match. It's also a shame because Hashimoto's intensity with Nishimura's style makes this a pretty great match for what it's worth, with them immediately establishing the tone with Nishimura bumping hard for leg kicks, trying for some Inoki-crab sweeps that get no-sold as Hashimoto coldly stares him down. Nishimura's frustration at being treated like this definitely shines though as he gets beaten down, but keeps getting back up every time despite the beating being given, refusing to properly give in. He is scared shitless pretty early on however; you see that as he rolls out and then looks like a deer in the headlights when trying to get back in. Hashimoto lands some nasty big-man offence as he does a stiff elbow and then a hard back-first senton in succession, which causes gasps in the crowd. Nishimura does get some control with a frenzy of iffy forearm shots, but Hashimoto's damage to the leg means he can't keep up the momentum and gets shut down with some brilliantly sold kicks to the body. This does become more of a generic affair as Nishimura counters a backfist with a Cobra Twist before going for some bombs of his own. Hashimoto of course shuts this down with more really well sold kicks to the body. We get some great intensity with the leg work as Nishimura just starts barking stuff while pulling as much as he can while in a figure-four in a attempt to disable the best feature of his opponent. Hashimoto also gets in some fighting spirit screams as he eats some crab-sweeps to the leg before landing just a nasty, vicious chop/kick combo to send Nishimura flailing to the ground. At one point he just goes ballistic with chops, doing them even when Nishimura is on the ground and out already. He follows up with a stiff spinning wheel kick and a DDT that Nishimura almost RVD-sells for which gets the win. Really good work despite how quick this was; so much intensity is communicated with just 10 minutes of time. The stare downs, the no selling mind games between the pair, Nishimura hurling himself around; it all just works to provide a really awesome short match that got a fairly lethargic crowd to get surprisingly well behind this despite Nishimura having no real chance against the big Ace of the promotion. Damn shame we never got to see these two work longer; they would've killed it in the early 2000's with more time and Nishimura being a actual threat.
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- osamu nishimura
- shinya hashimoto
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Having gone though a ludicrous amount of Nishimura content from all over his career as apart of his Deep Dive (but mostly his G1 showings) here are some observations: 1. Nishimura can be a bit.....predictable when it comes to match structure. He has a tendency to keep going back to the same spots over and over in a particularly constructed way with whoever he's with. While some individuals (Suwama, Kojima, Nagata) manage to break him out of these routines, more passive workers kinda just let him do his thing. Not that it's a bad thing, mind you, but it does show perhaps a need for safety. 2. Nishimura is GREAT at subtle stuff. The Super Rookie Nakamura match is a good example of that as Nakamura shows off with some of his (at the time) innovative and rather fancy technical work; Nishimura immediately gets a bit miffed and starts going for even more elaborate routines to show the youngster up. His Kenzo Suzuki G1 showing has him kinda be a bully in that he just torments the youngster with consistent badgering on the outside. The man is almost gleeful at that fact and it gets incorporated into the finish, which has Nishimura become compliant and lose the match after a surprise roll-up. 3. Nishimura is also pretty damn good at communicating aggression against certain people. While he's generally stoic and neutral in most of his matches, he kinda has that Dory Funk principle where there's just that one or two guys that really piss him off immensely. In this case guys like Minoru Suzuki and Suwama make Nishimura a lot more prone to go for brawling and/or dirty breaks, at times just exploding with headbutts or something super uncharactistic. He never goes 100% off the deep end but you know he's bubbling under the surface, especially in some of the more hard-hitting matches. 4. His history with getting lesser talent to his level is naturally one of his greatest features, BUT what's important to address here is who seems to get more out of their encounters. Guys like Tenzan and Nakanishi, for example, have multiple really good matches with the guy, namely because his defensive style lends well to their more powerhouse antics. His work in elevating older talent (Fujinami, St. Clair, Kengo Kimura, Fuchi) is also pretty well established, especially when he has the time to pace out the match and showcase good technical work alongside them. What's weird is that there are some people who just seem to not really work with his style; guys like Muto even in his sensational 2001 prime just don't really click; their matches are underwhelming bar a spot or two, and it feels like Nishimura tries too hard to make them work by going at Muto's more crazed pace than his own. This is also evident in some of his showings against Kensuke Sasaki, where the two seem to try for weird novel concepts, like Nishimura spamming dropkicks or using chairs in their 1998 title match, or stealing each other's style in their 2004 showing. It's a bit too creative for its own good in that case. 5. Nishimura's "prime" can be accurately scaled to the late 90's where he takes off in popularity, and he peaks in the early to mid 2000's quality-wise. He is still very good in his later AJPW work, but his relentless political campaigning meant that the latter end of the AJPW work caused him to be unable to really commit fully into wrestling. This isn't to say he became bad, just that AJPW tended to use him for years in nothing 6-man matches. Occasionally he gets to show off just how good he can be (in particular carrying Yoon Kang Chul, a nothing South Korean wrestler to some of his best matches ever) but he's mostly relented to being in limited vet matches. I haven't yet checked out his very recent VAMOSTAR matches yet, so the jury is still out on how good he tangibly can be at this point.
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[2002-02-16-NJPW] Yuji Nagata vs Tadao Yasuda
Ma Stump Puller replied to GOTNW's topic in February 2002
This match does require some background before going into it if you want the maximum experience: Yasuda won his match against Le Banner (one of the best kickboxers ever at the time by essentially overpowering him in half guard and applying a forearm choke (you get the "blade" of your forearm and push against the neck with your bodyweight while the other hand prevents the person from moving their head to the side to escape the pressure) and this is exactly what he uses here early on to scare Nagata into rope breaks throughout the match; it's not just a random hold, it's THE hold that put Yasuda on the map, and he's going to spam it out whenever he can or try setting it up by just clinching and pushing him down. He's consistently trying to get him into position by toppling him in stand-up and then laying on top of him; that kind of style shouldn't work here, but it's really effective, namely because Nagata sells the first attempt by rolling out of the ring and holding his throat in discomfort, so even non-MMA fans know almost immediately that it's a bad hold to be in. It's refreshing to have two guys with clear gameplans actually work towards them with simple, logical stuff. Nagata's frustrations do come through via sharp strikes, which Yasuda quickly shuts down with his sumo slaps and sheer size advantage. Nagata does also get some successful submissions off but Yasuda uses ground and pound to disrupt them and go into his own stuff, namely head and neck chokes; again establishing what these two are trying to pull off here. The crowd really gets into this as time goes on as Nagata has to struggle through a ton, using a mix of rope breaks and clever counters (namely countering a rear naked choke into a figure-four toehold via his legs) and the crowd REALLY pop when he manages to apply his Nagata Lock off the opportunity. Nagata pushes more with a great strike combo and a cross armbreaker but fails. Yasuda answers with a Tiger Driver, a head/arm choke on the mat before trying for a front face lock, but gets countered into a Crossface Nagata Lock, which while successful doesn't cause a tap-out and soon he tires out and has to go for a pin instead due to fatigue. Eventually Nagata shoots for takedowns once too many times and gets tapped out with the Guillotine. While Nagata is obviously the better man here workrate wise I think Yasuda is vastly overhated when it comes to how much he needs carried in general. Dude works his part of the match just fine and his selling was mostly solid, especially when struggling in submissions. His mat-work is inoffensive and is surprisingly robust in places as he mostly takes advantage of the weight difference in intelligent spots. Outside of the result and the following Yasuda experiment failing tremendously it's a pretty damn spotless match bar some of the false submission finishes getting tired at the end. Pretty much Inoki-Ism done right.- 4 replies
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- yuji nagata
- tadao yasuda
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Not the greatest match between these two but I appreciated how different they worked this in comparison to their usual matchups. Between this and Nishimura/Kawada this card was really quite something impressive. We start off with filler Muto grappling but he also smartly breaks that tradition by nailing Koji with a surprise Shining Wizard for a early advantage when his opponent gets complacent sitting in holds. Koji tries again after recovering and again gets caught out with a surprise mule kick after trying for his leg. Knowing he can't really win on that end he attacks Muto with strikes, which he gets the edge over. The match only really picks up when the two brawl on the outside, with Muto eating a lariat to the back of the head and hitting the turnbuckle post. He blades afterwards; it's pretty gross as he seems to cut a minor artery, meaning he's just pissing blood from here. There's a amazing spot where Koji keeps beating on Muto so badly that he falls on his ass and spits out a faint mist of blood due to how much he has on his face, which popped the crowd good. But yeah, the entire second part of the match is based around Muto's wounds, and how Koji just refuses to let him recover for even a moment; he knows Muto is a tricky bugger, so stays on top consistently. His selling is....not going to fly with everyone but I did like how Muto would do the glassy eye stares and shaky legs; he's fairly good at showcasing just how unsteady the blood/beating has made him. Koji follows up that energy with more heelish antics like closed fists, rubbing his forearm in Muto's face during pins and really working the cut in places to ramp up sympathy. Muto's comebacks were also fairly modified here: he's almost working off muscular instinct in places as he can't really follow up on his typical leg work and almost seems confused afterwards, like he didn't even know what happened. Half of this is because, well, his face is leaking blood at a extremely fast rate, but still. Koji uses stiff headbutts and backdrops to hone in on the cut, as well as a rough piledriver that Muto groans afterwards at. I also loved how primal Muto becomes as his comebacks go from his usual standard leg work to wild strikes that barely hit the mark (he even stumbles over at points trying to fire them off) his selling turns into manic screaming, etc. He almost forgets about his gameplan, just wanting to make Koji suffer like he is, highlighted especially by a spot where he's just endlessly headbutting the shit out of him. Last few minutes becomes more typical from the two as Koji lands lariats while Muto tries to get around them, even pulling out a Frankensteiner that gets reversed into a nasty powerbomb. The finish is fairly controversial as Muto counters a third lariat into a flying knee, Koji powers out of a Wizard at one before eating two more for the conclusive pin. Some could see this as more proof of Koji getting short-changed in AJPW as he couldn't even beat Muto essentially bleeding out and barely conscious, but the pacing of this does make sense: Koji tries ending this early and goes for big bombs for big risks.....those risks costing him the match. This match will also be the catalyst to Kojima's "Loser Revival" gauntlet as he would intentionally start back on the undercard to get his mojo back. Muto is great in these kind of more character-based matches as he gets to show off his selling and snappy comebacks, playing a good underdog throughout. Muto's formula was admittedly getting a bit old at this point so matches like these were VERY much welcomed. If you fancy a more unconventional brawl between these two this'll definitely fit the bill.
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- keiji muto
- satoshi kojima
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Noted, I'll inevitably have to check out that and see how it stands up. That said he's someone who just couldn't not be on the list given the crazy amount of solid outings he has. I remember he even made the 60+ year old Funks look good in a 20 minute match a while back, which was bonkers. And yeah Awesome's one of those guys that you watch some minutes of highlights and think he's just great, but then you actually realise that's mostly because he was with people generous enough to take his dangerous shit and make it look golden. Watching him nervously work a leg with the lightest heel hook straight for about 3 minutes is the stuff that tends to get overlooked lol.
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Might as well update this now than never. Up: John Tenta: I'm still not massively into him being a top 100 anything but my recent looks into his post-WWF career have been fairly fruitful. He's a great big-man, perfectly knows how to pace a match around that fact while throwing in big bumps and surprising agility when it matters. He's pretty damn good at carrying lesser talent as well when it matters as well. He's a rogue pick for sure but his chances definitely went way up after seeing what he was getting up to. Osamu Nishimura: Has he EVER had a bad match that was down to him? I've never seen one so far and generally the only actual bad match he had was with a 78-year old Dory Funk in a 10 minute match, so I don't really put that aside him. I'm a big sticker for consistency and Nishimura is the embodiment of that; the man can do no wrong, either with Sabu in the 90's or Bas in the 2000's to making Tenzan actually look good. I'm not even really close to watching a chunk of his showings and he's already up there for me. Satoshi Kojima: Going back to early 2000's AJPW has really made me appreciate how much of a talent Koji was in general. Sure he was always in that realm of "not as big as the top stars but also too big to be a reliable mid-card talent" but he's someone who always puts on a good performance week after week with whoever he is in the ring with. His incredible intensity alongside how easy his sequences flow together made him a MVP in those days, elevating any match he was in. I mean ffs, he got THE WALL to a good match by his lonesome, while Muto as the Great Muta couldn't, even with the added smoke and mirrors padding that crowds usually bite hard for. My criticisms for his structuring of matches and whatnot still apply, but I also believe that he typically is able to mix things up enough (at this in this era anyway) to get around that. Robbie Brookside: I have no idea why he's not even nominated yet. Brookside does have a footage-based issue where a lot of his prime work was simply unfilmed but he was doing the mid-2000's shit people were diving all over for a decade earlier, and even when he was outside of his prime he was still wrestling incredible matches with future top talent like Danielson and such. Great at technical stuff, can brawl well, good face/heel, virtually every aspect of his wrestling was solid. Should be a easy contender for a top 100 spot given he has a surprising amount of matches out there with how much footage is circulating. Down: Mike Awesome: The more I watch of his non-hardcore matches, the less I'm impressed. When he's not doing stupid bumps or making people do them he really struggles to stand out bar maybe one or two spots that look cool, usually stuck sitting in holds or throwing bad punches. Way too much reliance on certain things in place for his stuff to be good, very one-dimensional. Tiger Mask IV: Recently had a short reign with the AJPW Jr Championship and he was just really dull for the most part. It's a bit unfair to criticise someone who clearly isn't anywhere near his prime but at the same time I've seen Muto have far more engaging matches while far older. Just really dull generally and never wants to challenge himself or change things up, which you can basically define his entire career as such given he's the only Tiger Mask to have never unmasked or changed gimmick. KENTA: This one will be slightly controversial but despite perhaps getting a huge buzz off his hardcore match with Tana he's really gone down for me given his current work. Outside of when he's with a top-card guy he tends to really lack much flavour to his stuff, with a lot of weak padding and samey heel tactics. Even his G1 stint outside of the Tanahashi match felt by the numbers and the stream of mediocre NJPW tags are neverending. I like his NJPW stuff for the record, I just feel like he doesn't really bother much of the time and you can REALLY tell when that's the case.
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From what scattered footage remains of his later career, there's definitely a lot worth mentioning, surprisingly. His VERY late AJPW matches (the last of his career, in fact) have him be a relatively solid hand in that he can work with virtually anyone in the ring and still give the goods: he'd even leaned out a bit at this point and as a result could move faster than you'd think in the ring. Guy bumps like a trooper as well: in one match in particular he has to eat a rough Doomsday Device from Muto and co and does so with no issues whatsoever. In the dregs of early Pro-Love AJPW, he might've have been one of the brighter spots in terms of being a consistently solid hand in tag matches, even if his age and impending physical issues did make him a fairly weak singles performer. I also recently did a mini Deep Dive into his WAR showings and he's actually pretty fun. He gets to work with a super versatile cast of ex-WWF guys and he shines in all of his outings, from getting a super green Renegade (yes, THAT Renegade lol) to a actually decent match to giving Warlord maybe his best match ever in a uber underrated big man showdown. Not a lot out there but enough to add to his case. I'll make a short list of suggestions (highlighted bold are the must-watches) Vs. Haku (WAR 14.02.1993) Vs. Rio of The Jungle (WAR 05.03.1993) W/ Haku vs. The Barbarian & Tony Halme (WAR 17.06.1993) W/ Stan Lane vs. Ultimo Dragon & Mil Mascaras (WAR 11.10.1993) Vs. Warlord (WAR 15.12.1993) W/ Gigantes vs. Arashi & Nobutaka Araya (AJPW 16.02.2003) W/ Gigantes & George Hines vs. Keiji Muto, Arashi & Nobutaka Araya (AJPW 06.07.2003) W/ Robbie Brookside & George Hines vs. Hiroshi Hase, Masayuki Kono & Shigeo Okumura (AJPW 19.07.2003) You could also easily add in his two UWF-I outings just for the visuals of him scrapping with Vader and Albright alone, but he makes those matches a ton of fun to watch alongside the sheer visuals of the whole thing.
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For a year where AJPW was mostly in the pits, this was a surprisingly really good match....and it only needed 15 minutes. Starts with both men feeling each other out on the mat, with Muto eventually able to get a good hold of Kojima's leg and works it for a bit until he smartly reverses it into his own hold; this causes Muto to quickly get to the ropes with him laying down uneasy while Kojima gets right back up in the middle of the ring, super confident. Good starting spot that establishes how Kojima's prior experience with Muto gives him a edge. Both men explode into their signature spots, Muto going for a early Wizard that's blocked, Kojima going for a lariat that's blocked, which ends with both of them troubled by how well the other has defended themselves: Kojima calling Muto a bastard for even daring to sneak a win early is a great spot but it also showcases that Muto's leg-targeting gameplan despite being dominant against nearly everyone else in the Carnival wasn't going to fly here. Kojima is the one instead to work over Muto's legs: he spends a good portion here wearing them down so he can then just blast him away with stiff chops and strikes. Muto in turn opts for Kojima's lariat arm instead, which I thought was a lot more explosive than you'd think: despite the usual key locks and cross armbreakers we also get Muto just wrecking the arm with endless kneeling dropkicks. What I do like is how both guys sell fatigue here: Kojima obviously has his dramatic selling for the arm and whatnot where he's screaming and falling over but Muto has a more subdued style of selling where he's clearly not comfortable and having to pull out big risky moves to even the score before Kojima can run him over again. It's Misawa-lite almost how he doesn't go crazy with the emoting, but you can clearly tell he's hurting. That's the story of the match, and it plays out in the usual formula of the time as the two pursue their respective limbs while also getting in bombs whenever possible. There's a good pace here as both men take turns doing that exact thing while not stretching things out too much. Kojima mounts one final comeback using a Koji Cutter and Michinoku Driver for a 2. 9. He hits a proper Lariat at last but the arm work allows Muto to take the dampened impact just fine and answer with a Wizard. The finish is amazingly innovative as Muto smartly uses a modified Franksteiner to roll into a cross armbreaker mid-lariat attempt, getting the tap out victory. This is easily Muto's best match in the Carnival barring the Tenryu bout: intense, psychologically driven warfare between two guys who have each other's number by this point. The crowd was totally into this one and were massively behind Kojima to take it who played to this well with his babyface selling of Muto's offence; some could say it's a bit too exaggerated at points, but I think Kojima has a charm that allows him to get away with stuff like that. Muto really went into next gear here in getting over Kojima as his most dangerous threat yet as he needed to pull out everything to get over and even then he barely got the win. The shortened pace meant that both men cut the filler for more hard-hitting action, which was definitely the right choice given the conditions. Easy to watch but lots of fun.
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- keiji muto
- satoshi kojima
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(and 1 more)
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The Comprehensive All Japan 1990's Thread
Ma Stump Puller replied to soup23's topic in Pro Wrestling
Might have something of a recommend list for late showings 95/2000 given I binged pretty much every match from that timeframe lol. I was very fascinated with how the company morphed and changed leading to the NOAH exodus so it became a bit of a hobby to find a lot of that halfway house material. -
I definitely do have to agree with the post above that Honma has been criminally underrated in his early years, especially his AJPW stuff. I've been recently just going through a lot of the material from that time and Honma shines already there with the underdog work he'll throw out in NJPW later on: there are a ton of matches where he just gets the piss beaten out of him and bumps like crazy. This man has to eat shots from guys like Kawada and Sasaki and has to try to earn their respect by essentially taking all of it and then some. He's a good hand that gets strong reactions and solid matches regularly, especially when he has the chance to emote and show off his agility. Of course his NJPW and deathmatch stuff has the more high-end/better quality runs, but I think his AJPW work does come a good way in showcasing how his week by week workrate looked like, as well as how early on he had a grasp on the stuff that would later make him a much more bigger deal.
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I was pleasantly surprised how well-done this was for a barely 10 minute match. Both of these guys work a Jr-style pace of the time while combining that with a TON of submission wangling and smart mat-work while making sure nothing drags for too long. The start of this in particular sets that tone perfectly as the two just spam kneebars and cross armbreakers on each other over and over to try to catch the other guy out. Some could say this was unrealistic: I would say otherwise given these two didn't make this nonsensically fast-paced and made sure to sell the struggle of either man escaping and then applying said submissions. Kashin is naturally as hit-or-miss as ever but I do think even naysayers have to admit that this was a strong performance out of him: he really sells the desperation at points as he struggles to get a win while pulling all of his usual rule-bending shit to do so. Tanaka responds with some surprisingly brutal spots: him consistently dropkicking Kashin's trapped leg in the ropes endlessly and turning a Torture Rack into a nasty rear naked choke are good examples. The match gets real ugly after Tanaka tries for a dive and fails, with a frustrated Kashin throwing him over the guardrail and hitting him with a horrifically stiff chair throw to his back. Tanaka sells for a bit but quickly goes back into submission attempts. He throws a ton of offence at Kashin and tries to find the sweet spot, but his defence is just way too good for him to crack. Eventually he makes the mistake of trying for a standing cross armbreaker transition as a dig at Kashin which the latter counters and smoothly steps in and rolls over into his own for the sneaky win. Gotta say, this is somewhat all over the place; some might say spotty at times with the amount of submissions and flashy shit: but I loved it. Tanaka is so fast on the mat and Kashin provides that grit via his selling, but also his sharp strikes and effective mat-defence. Tanaka's strikes felt a bit too floaty at points and lacked impact but they weren't really the main focus of the match, so I tended to ignore them. The selling is spotty on Tanaka's side and I felt like he didn't quite sell the damage he was taking over the course of the match nearly as well as Kashin was but regardless both put on a top-notch performance here for a fast-paced tournament-format match. A very good match and a breeze to get through.
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- kendo kashin
- minoru tanaka
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(and 1 more)
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His 1989 Fujiwara match from U-Cosmos is probably the worst match he's ever had, through that wasn't really his fault given how shoddy the whole thing was set up as a fake fight. Vrij literally just lets the guy do whatever he wants by the end despite the guy landing some of the worst kicks I've ever seen. Anyway, Vrij kinda goes the same way as other shoot-style monsters like Albright in that he starts off pretty high on the card but eventually loses his allure after a while and gets jobbed out to every potential big act: after a while of watching you know that guys like Volk and Maeda aren't in any real danger from this guy, which while it doesn't make the technique and overall quality of their matches any worse, it does lessen the tension in those conditions. That said, a convincing striker with a ton of cockiness and dirty antics made him a natural juxtaposition to the honorable mat-workers he was usually paired up with, so good matches out of him are easy to find. Main issue is that that was kinda the only dynamic he ever felt fresh in; his lack of versatility is a natural issue that would probably exclude him out of my personal top 100.
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Other Deep Dive stuff Introduction The Movement was started off by Johnny Ace in 1998: more specifically, his betrayal of Kobashi and the end of GET on 23.08.1998. Ace filled Kobashi's absence with mostly mid-card Gaijins: Johnny Smith, Wolf Hawkfield, etc, as well as bringing in Bart Gunn (going by Mike Barton) as a enforcer, namely boosted by his shoot knockdown of Steve Williams in the Brawl 4 All. Now Movement is a somewhat complicated faction to describe; while being built from a heel action (namely Ace attacking his weakened and exhausted partner after eating a loss) the actual motive of Movement was built around the premise of foreign talent being neglected. This is namely seen in the build-up to Ace and Kobashi breaking up wherein Kobashi (who was current Triple Crown Champ at the time) was unable to help out guys like Smith and Hawkfield due to his fatigue and injuries and as a result, they typically ended up taking the fall in their respective matches. Ace seen this as a lack of respect and eventually snapped on him after Kobashi accidently hit him with a lariat when he tried helping out for the finish of the match dated above. Ace did cut a promo a year later that outlined the motives for Movement a bit more clearly. Basically they were the Tweener, heel-ish "we are better than you and we'll keep proving that until you get it" kind of deal. Movement have a number of unique qualities that made me want to tot my thoughts down on them- they are during a time where as stated before, AJPW were cutting back on exhaustive King Road-style matches in favour of smaller more compact deals with bomb throwing, just not to the very long extremes of the early 90's. Movement were as such almost built to enforce that: their matches aren't as spotty as examples you might know better and they hone in on momentum-switching and extended slow heat segments. Not only that, but Movement has a unique dynamic in that the Barton/Ace duo are built in such a way where Barton is a clear inferior in a lot of his matches, needing Ace to come in a ton to support and keep him in control. Movement also master the function of isolating out people in tag matches as a lot of their examples generally have them hone in on one person for most of the match with occasional hot tags and switches not included. All of those factors combined make for a uniquely different experience of the AJPW tag-format, which it did admittedly need at the time given the wear and tear of the main players. I'm going to bring up a few highlights of the Movement in terms of matches that I feel like are best suited for first-time watchers. Akira Taue & Tamon Honda vs. Johnny Ace & Kenta Kobashi (Summer Action Series II 23.08.1998) Ok, so I'm clearly cheating here with this first one but it's kinda necessary to get the background of how Movement is set-up in the first place. Taue is hunting for Kobashi whom at this point was falling apart; the storyline itself brings that up as Akiyama tore his legs to shreds in their last defence and he still hasn't recovered, so Taue here just destroys him mostly with big throws, strikes, and even getting getting stuff on the exposed mat outside. Ace tries to help when he can but clearly isn't happy with how he's having to pick up all the slack. Naturally this ends with the two miscommunicating, leading to Honda and Taue to bomb the shit out of Kobashi until he's down for the pin. Ace post-match beats him up further and that's basically that. This was about 7 minutes clipped if I recall but it is a drama-filled match even left over, with solid performances from Taue and co as they just pick apart the rapidly declining GET until it shatters. Movement (Ace/Barton) W/ Maunakea Mossman vs. Jun Akiyama, Kenta Kobashi & Kentaro Shiga (Real World Tag League 14.11.1998) The debut of Barton in AJPW is a pretty decent showing, actually. Ace annoys Kobashi by doing nasty stiff chops in front of the man to piss him off in particular. Ace also has a really awesome fast paced exchange with Kobashi as they pull tons out of their playbook to fight the other, exchanging boots and kicks, chops and slaps, elbows and shoulder charges, etc. This match establishes that Ace isn't as strong as Kobashi but he's experienced enough to get around most of his offence, namely because he knows all by heart. Ace is great at really being a bully as he works over Akiyama and co with some painful looking holds and shuts down momentum whenever it pops up. Movement get over their signature double team bombs (namely the side slam/standing leg drop and military press into Ace Crusher) here as they manage to smartly isolate out Burning so that they can beat down Shiga into a easy pin for Barton after some surprisingly half-decent bombs from his part. This match establishes how Movement function mostly in that Ace mostly gets the lead with surprise Ace Crushers out of nowhere while Barton wears them down with his strikes and suplexes. They only use the bombs for big near falls and generally don't tend to spam them out. There's some nothing limb work in here involving Akiyama's torso but I think that's covered well by some solid selling by Akiyama, and even Shiga gets the chance to not completely suck here as Barton and co bump around for him. A pretty much perfect introduction to Movement-style tags. Movement (Ace/Barton) vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Yoshinari Ogawa (Real World Tag League 21.11.1998) Misawa and Ogawa are the "better" tag team when it comes to pretty much throwing out offence, but Movement are able to get on top of this via their interference antics: Barton in particular despite getting bullied and beaten up by Misawa can't get pinned due to Ace consistently running in to disrupt the flow. Even Misawa can't take this for too long and ends up tiring, allowing the duo to slip in sneaky offence to balance the books. Eventually Misawa is just ganged up on consistently until he has to eat the pin. Ogawa is...fine here, nothing really special. He mostly just plays the backup guy and that's fine. Misawa actually bothers here and as a result Ace milks every interaction between them for everything he can, resulting in enjoyable exchanges. Barton plays the enforcer mostly here and sticks to his usual suplexes and punches, which while good enough as a gimmick don't really add up to much, especially given he's mostly playing the weaker link that Ace has to prop up with his antics. If you wanna see Movement have a conventionally AJPW-house style match with the Ace done fairly well, check this out. Movement (Ace/Barton) vs. Akira Taue & Toshiaki Kawada (Real World Tag League 27.11.1998) Movement just completely neutralise Taue and Kawada's dynamic here and it's fantastic shit to watch. Kawada, who typically softens up opponents for Taue to run over is instead consistently interrupted: I love how Ace consistently gets in shit to keep Kawada from doing any offence to Gunn while Gunn keeps to this and makes sure to hand him over to Ace on the outside whenever necessary. It's just effective tag team psychology and Kawada sells all of it amazingly, with his frumpy flat back bumps after elbow strikes and being so hurt that he can't even run for a Irish Whip, stopping in the middle. Ace even lands a Ace Crusher to a prone chair, which was a silly but cool spot to see. Taue, generally able to rest up for big hot tags is forced to run in multiple times to stop pins, meaning Movement just stick to him like butter for offence and wear him down as well whenever possible. Of course, the Demon Army are able to work through this despite some desperation selling (with Taue even crawling to save Kawada from a pin in a spot incredibly reminiscent of their famous 09.06.1995 match with Kobashi/Misawa) and both teams eventually build really well to a ending stretch, with Ace and Kawada in particular just getting into it with wild spots and sequences with the crowd right in their hands with every near fall. Movement did have a smart plan coming in, but plans tend to fall apart when kicked in the face; this match is more or less proof of that. It's also pretty damn solid as well. Movement (Ace/Barton) vs. Jun Akiyama & Kenta Kobashi (Real World Tag League 04.12.1998) Against Burning we just get a ton of really enjoyable spots where Ace and Barton are just taking the piss with Kobashi and subsequently pissing him off with everything they are doing. There's some astonishing heat here as explained above but it's done so cleverly throughout: Ace and Kobashi have stiff and nasty sequences between them but Ace noticeably has to use Gunn as reinforcement to sustain any lasting advantage, and they get a early lead with a Ace Crusher/military press bomb in on Kobashi. Akiyama spends most of this feeding the duo solo, leading them to just ground him down with some brawling and outside spots: namely a Snake Eyes on the guardrail and a follow-up Ace Crusher over it to damage his throat. Ace particularly is top notch here with his heel shit, little things like him painfully cranking the neck in a abdominal stretch by forcing Akiyama's neck down further or beating Akiyama down with forearm blows until he needs to be forced away, using GET's old back suplex/Ace Crusher combo on Kobashi himself.....just great work in general. There's a great spot where Akiyama gets stuck in a delayed suplex by Gunn right in front of Kobashi and he just has to stand there and watch, getting progressively more annoyed the longer it goes until he explodes on the apron. Honestly, it's simple stuff but it's super solid mind games by the pair to tick off Burning's lead player, which pays off when he tries to beat down Gunn excessively and overextends allowing them to get their extra shots in. This has a good flow to it and never feels slow despite it being one of the longer matches here as Burning's comebacks and hot tags are kept to a minimum and the crowd really stay on top of this from start to end, namely because of how Movement can keep this fresh without the need for a million near falls. Of course we get the usual Kobashi-isms and whatnot alongside the expected structures, but I think the natural heat and easy to follow format gives a ton of credence to how Movement could change that kind of style for the better here. A lot of fun and probably the best match Movement ever had. Their second match together next year is worth a watch as well. Movement (Ace/Barton) vs. New Triangle of Power (Masahito Kakihara & Yoshihiro Takayama) (New Year Giant Series 02.01.1999) I picked this one out in particular because it has a really unique format and structure. The UWF Triangle team turn this into a shoot-style exhibition for the first half, with Barton having to essentially just scrap it out to survive against the two. The crowd gets into this somewhat......and then Ace runs in to land cheap shots and a backdrop lol. He basically just plays the role of the spoiler here, focusing on outside attacks and the usage of chairs whenever Kakihara and co get too much of a lead. His antics aren't overused but just last long enough for the audience to get real sick of his nonsense, and they cheer massively when he gets demolished by Takayama's knees. Ultimately this is paced around Barton's trial by fire as he has to mostly contend for himself in the ring against two killers, which I think despite being the obvious weak link of the duo, he's actually not half-bad at all and manages to showcase some surprisingly good stuff on top of that when push comes to shove. This definitely isn't a big classic but for versatility-sake I do feel like Movement showcase a more subdued style that's less about the big shots and more about just slowly peeling back their opponents with isolation and plenty of shenanigans, making this a entertaining romp. Movement (Ace/Barton vs. Jun Akiyama & Maunakea Mossman (Champion Carnival 15.04.2000) Akiyama has been shoved out of Burning after his angry antics, so we get a more aggressive version of him here alongside Mossman against Movement in a nice burst of action. Both teams really just feel like they don't like each other as Akiyama and co destroy Barton's leg with some nasty limb work (in particular them sticking it in the guardrail and dropkicking it, which was just brutal). Ace is the key player here: he's experienced enough to get around the younger guys with his Ace Crusher counters and vicious strikes to stay in the game. Movement mostly on the defensive here as Akiyama and co bomb them well and keep control with said leg work paying off later on when Barton tries getting Ace out of stuff. Things tend to slow a bit during the middle half but this being about 15 minutes long means it's a breeze to go through and keeps up the counter-heavy antics all the way to the end to add a ton of unpredictability. There's definitely a feel of management trying to push Mossman/Kea over more at this point, which depending on your tendencies may rub you the wrong way given he wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire at this point. It's a lean package, but shows that Movement could have solid bouts without needing extended heat segments to do so, which can be seen as a misconception of what I've shown so far. Extra matches you may want to watch if you liked these: Vs. Akira Taue & Toshiaki Kawada (Super Power Series 09.06.2000) Vs. Takao Omori & Yoshihiro Takayama (Summer Action Series 23.07.1999) W/ Wolf Hawkfield vs. Takao Omori, Takeshi Morishima & Yoshihiro Takayama (Real World Tag League 03.12.1999) W/ Road Warriors vs. Hakushi, Jun Akiyama & Kenta Kobashi (AJPW Giant Baba Memorial Show 02.05.1999) Conclusion All in all, Movement were a pretty impressive addition to the AJPW tag scene, having numerous solid to great showings in the space of about two years despite the fact that AJPW TV time was massively waning so they had a lot less footage to work off than in earlier times. I think the fact that Barton was always the weak link in these matches makes Ace's performances that much stronger given how much he was juggling, but it never feels disorganised or "off" in any measurable way like he's openly carrying him. I would say that Movement (and by extension Ace's work) isn't going to be to everyone's tastes, but I would implore those that only know the more traditionally known Pillars matches to check these selected ones out and how they are able to work with different facets of their style. Surprisingly very good results despite the styles clash.
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This was during a weird period where Dory was facing guys like Sabu, Samoa Joe, Kenso Suzuki: just a wild selection of talent all in all. Many of those aforementioned matches are lost to time sadly but this one during Jarrett's Reign of Terror over the NWA/TNA belt is intact, amazingly. I will say that Jarrett is a GREAT heel here as soon as he walks through the curtain him asking the crowd to stand up for him and he jawjacks with the crowd for the first few minutes. It's obviously stalling but it's pretty good stalling all things considered and Dory plays with it well as he almost at once gets in Jarrett's space and makes him uncomfortable. Dory gets Jarrett in a near fall school-boy and Jarrett starts having a moan at the ref to tell Dory to "slow down" so he can warm up and everyone just goes apeshit at him lol. Basic but very effective heel work from the get-go. Obviously the workrate here isn't going to be Omega/Okada levels of fast-pace but Jarrett works a good insecure champion as he keeps failing to get some control over the match, consistently getting countered or pushed back: Jarrett stooges a ton here with how he acts. Despite the obvious limitations Dory actually looks good: guy does a full flip bump off a arm wrench, which was wild to see. I wouldn't say it was era-defining but Dory can still get around fairly decently and his holds still have a good agency to them. Jarrett uses the small arena space to his advantage as he's able to audibly talk trash the entire match time and get the crowd even more worked up with his nonsense. Dory works in the arm in the middle half and it's basically what you'd expect from a Dory format at this point; lots of basic working holds, lots of waiting in them. It is mostly basic but he throws in some innovative key-locks alongside his infamously good forearm smashes to pop the crowd here and there. Jarrett and co do some decent sequences as Jarrett's cheating isn't able to even the score despite his best attempts to outclass the vet; he's not afraid to look stupid either given how much leeway he gives here, at times almost comedically bumping around. Was also wild to see Dory do catch-style stuff with the forearm over the face to force Jarrett into back mount when he tries working the legs. Dory is slightly gassed by the end but still throws out a Butterfly suplex and backdrop. Finish is somewhat clipped but interference and the ref missing Dory's foot on the ropes gives Jarrett the tainted victory. Outside of the weak ending (expected from Jarrett matches of this time) I thought this was actually fairly good, especially for the 64 year old Dory at this point: he's obviously slowed a fair bit but he can still work on the mat just fine and showcases some impressive technique. Jarrett works the crowd like a champ, sells well, and looks good despite being 70% on the defensive here; he quickly adapts to the smaller crowd in such a way that he changes up his stuff to almost be Destroyer-lite in how he involves the ref as a third party here for heat, stooging for not only Dory but also them at points as he keeps getting rumbled and loses his confidence over time against his opponent; he goes from trying to outwork Dory to show off to overtly cheating to stay in the game. This won't convince naysayers of either man that they are actually great or anything, but I thought it was a well-put together match that hones in on the two men's strengths as wrestlers, even if it does focus on the basics mostly.
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- dory funk jr
- jeff jarrett
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(and 2 more)
Tagged with:
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[2007-04-22-IWA-MS/ACW] Necro Butcher vs Masada
Ma Stump Puller replied to Jetlag's topic in April 2007
Watched this recently and it's a load of fun by itself but also showcases Necro's amazing selling as he's thrown in with the native promotion guy on his own turf with a crowd chanting his name right from the get-go, and he slowly gets over with them as Masada just beats the dude down to the dirt with lots of colour, but also well-timed comeback spots. Necro stumbling around throwing big meaty punches, getting messed up with knees to the head and then shadowboxing when he's knocked on his ass and completely out of it was a really good spot in general and it didn't even require any insane brutality or flips. Of course you get the nasty stuff here alongside just the horrific back-breaking bumps (the side slam into the chairs and Death Valley onto the floor being obvious bits) but I feel like they balance the books well and get over Necro just having to survive from spot to spot as Masada keeps raising the stakes to try to put him down for good. In a way, it makes the plunder set-up a little bit more logical as Necro just won't stay down and Masada keeps getting snake-bit whenever there's breathing room. Finishes via roll-ups are always a bit cheap but it works here given Necro had nothing to give outside of the limpest attempts possible, and his talent at building fatigue and showcasing that are good enough that you buy him stooping to that level to survive. Masada puts in good work on offence with some surprisingly clean wrestling but I felt like this was ultimately the Necro show: proven by the insane pop he gets after kicking out of the apron Death Valley: which was arguably louder than the reaction to the spot itself. Good stuff. -
Him being the bumbling sidekick to Akiyama's typically all-heel Sternness group was a lot of fun and he showed he had the chops to actually work when it mattered; a shame most of his best work is in a promotion where we don't even have 30% of it on tape. His AJPW early years are mostly unremarkable as he's overshadowed by Marufuji/Kanehara in terms of lanky Jr acts, even if he had the whole headbutt shtick done to a tee remarkably early. For me, I feel like a lot of his work is dominated by "what ifs" as he never quite anywhere got to the levels that his peers at the time did: Sort of like a modern day version of Satoru Asako in that he was clearly quite talented, had a lot of potential, but bad timing and injury meant he never got to show it off proper.
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I love the match where his leg gets worked on for half of it and then he starts throwing out big flips in response, great psychology But yeah Ospreay's a great spot worker but his direction and ability to put a match together are dreadful: you end up having a mess of stuff all across the board and usually rather bloated as a result. His best matches come when he's forced to work with somebody who course-corrects his antics and makes them palpable. Other than that, you have a weird blend of traits that should realistically give a ton of great matches to work with but instead kinda just results in confusing matches most of the time. He's improved from his earlier years; I'll give him that. Top 100 wrestlers? Absolutely not.
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Greatest British Wrestlers Ever
Ma Stump Puller replied to EnviousStupid's topic in Greatest Wrestler Ever
Nigel being higher than Barrett is....a choice, to say the least. IIRC British can refer to any place in the UK: Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales etc. The only wrestlers who wouldn't technically count here is Sheamus and Balor because they were both from Republic of Ireland (which isn't officially apart of the UK). No one mentioned would count as English (I.E. not from England exclusively) -
Wellington Wilkins Jr. The self-described "Mr Squeeze" for his many showcases of just completely running over rookies and making them tap out endlessly, Wilkins starts off on the surface as a unimportant and immensely disliked American jobber and UWF undercard guy before getting thrown into very early Michinoku Pro and bizarrely blowing it out of the park most of the time. He's like Finlay, only if he did lucha sequences alongside stiff strikes and old-school catch. Also like Finlay he's harmed by mostly not being a top billing guy, but the man has some pretty great showings otherwise alongside a consistent stream of entertaining work with green talent and Great Sasuke trainees: on top of arguably pioneering the future Western/DDT hardcore divisions with his infamous feud with Yone Genjin, where the pair would go everywhere and anywhere in the arena and beyond to do all kinds of nonsense with whatever they could find. Massively underrated worker. Vs. Minoru Suzuki (UWF 16.01.1990) Vs. Naoki Sano (SWS 07.12.1990) Vs. Fujiwara (PWFG 16.05.1991) Vs. Lightning Kid (PWA 16.06.1991) Vs. Kazuhiko Matsuzaki (Oriental Pro 14.09.1992) Vs. Naohiro Hoshikawa: 1993 series (Michinoku Pro 24.07/24.08/21.10.1993) Vs. Yone Genjin (Michinoku Pro 29.04.1994) Vs. Masato Yakushiji (Michinoku Pro 30.10.1994) W/Naohiro Hoshiawa Vs. Masato Yakushiji & Yoshito Sugamoto (Michinoku Pro 14.01.1997)
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Necro isn't particularly my cup of tea but he's had some pretty solid outings. I would particularly suggest his stint in IGF where he's getting thrown into random as fuck matches against Bob Sapp, Minowaman and random Inoki-Ism MMA goons. He turns what could've been just some quick paydays with minimal effort into some surprisingly fun outings as he has to adapt to a more shoot-style way of wrestling while keeping all of his usual antics intact. Lots of fun.
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I wouldn't go that far but there's definitely a element to this that I do agree on. Jumbo has his moments but a lot of the time tends to drift if he hasn't got something to direct his focus on, especially when it came to watching the Tenryu feud stuff, which I felt was mostly dictated by Jumbo getting led into big heated brawls by him more than anything else; not surprising given Tenryu's record with that kind of stuff but still. It's not to say Jumbo was bad, but there are LOTS of matches in which it feels like he's content to just go with the flow of his opponent and not really try anything spectacular. He never innovates the slower work of the 70's, he goes with the flow of Choshu and co in the 80's, and then in the 90's you start to see him actually dictating the pace, but that's mostly because he was working with a bunch of guys below him who couldn't do so. You could maybe say the same for other potential GOAT contenders (Misawa, Fujiwara, Tenryu again etc) but I honestly find those names to be far less egregious when it comes to coasting: Fujiwara in particular will make nothing matches with literal jobbers into half-decent or even good showings by taking almost full control. Jumbo I feel doesn't have that quality, at least from what I watched.