PeteF3
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[1998-08-01-NJPW-G1 Climax] Shiro Koshinaka vs Masa Chono
PeteF3 replied to Loss's topic in August 1998
Yeah, I'm with Chad and Childs, too. This was a good solid match and Koshinaka is one of my all-time least favorite wrestlers who has a generally good reputation, so I had no expectations going into this. I don't get where the crowd was quieted--after Koshinaka hits the two power bombs and Chono kicks out, they're pretty molten. This isn't an all-timer or anything but it was heated and dramatic and had me guessing down the stretch, plus had some clever spots that I liked, particularly Koshinaka shoving the referee into the ropes in order to crotch Chono on the turnbuckle. My only tangible complaint is how loosely Chono's Butterfly Lock was applied--like 1995-Backlund-crossface-chickenwing levels--and that can fly in the WWF but not NJPW. -
Oh dear God, am I glad I broke my pattern and read the comments first. I can't even be compelled to care about the "Final Deletion," much less this.
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The finish was WTF-worthy both for me and the crowd--at first I thought it was a time limit draw. Anyway, both these guys are starting to break down (18 years before the end of either man's career!) so they're content to milk the drama and big moments for all that they're worth, and they do so successfully. Muto targets Tenryu's knee with his dragon screws to set up the figure four and Tenryu throws punches, and lots of them. Both guys hit Super Ace Crushers but Muto does his to the *floor* in a holy-shit moment that nonetheless looked to be about as safe of a bump as you could ask for in that situation. For the most part, an example of smart work tending to trump hard work.
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Where the Big Boys Play #85: Starrcade 1992
PeteF3 replied to soup23's topic in Publications and Podcasts
Okay, I just went through all the TV bouts on the 1992 Yearbook. I don't THINK Loss & Will missed anything essential when compiling the set, which speaks volumes considering the number of good TV matches WCW had especially in the first half of the year. It's been ages since I watched Will's Dangerous Alliance comp which features a ton more, but the really good stuff made the Yearbook proper. That said...you said you were looking for around 12 matches. Here are 7 that I would consider absolute, must-have locks: - Dustin vs. Arn (1/4 WCWSN, finish on 1/5 Main Event) - Pillman vs. Rude (2/15 Pro) - Sting/Dustin/Windham/Steamboat vs. Rude/Arn/Eaton/Zbyszko (2/22 WCWSN) - Steamboat/Dustin/Nikita vs. Arn/Eaton/Zbyszko (5/23 WCWSN) - Windham vs. Austin (6/13 WCWSN) - Dustin/Windham vs. Doc/Gordy (10/3 WCWSN) - Dustin vs. Vader (11/21 WCWSN) And others to consider: - Sting/Steamboat/Bagwell vs. Rude/Austin/Zbyszko (1/18 Pro). A lesser version of the DA 6-mans but the consensus was universally positive in the thread. - Steamboat vs. Arn (3/28 Pro). A hot post-match angle adds to a pretty good TV match. This might be the highest-ranking "non-must" IMO. - Steamboat/Dustin/Windham vs. Rude/Austin/Arn (4/4 Pro). Yet another good 6-man, they do all tend to run together, though. - Big Josh vs. Arn Anderson (5/2 WCWSN). A controversial selection that I suspect Parv might veto out of hand. This was a divisive bout that didn't seem to live up to its prior rep when watched in a Yearbook setting. There's lots of gritty, intense matwork but it's also 45 minutes, with color analysis by Jason Hervey. Maybe one of those "you have to see it once" matches. - Austin vs. Windham (5/9 WCWSN). Loss called this Austin's best match to this point, though that was before he really dove into the Adams stuff from 1990. Also the debut of short-haired Austin. - Dustin vs. Rude (5/30 Worldwide). A good compare-and-contrast opportunity with Pillman/Rude. - Arn vs. Windham (6/6 WCWSN). Included for posterity. The infamous match that Parv reviewed instead of the '91 match. - Dustin vs. Cactus Jack, falls count anywhere (9/6 Main Event). One of the first in a series for Cactus. Short but intense and really puts Jack over in this environment strongly. - Dustin vs. Jake Roberts (9/26 WCWSN). Maybe not big enough to truly be worthy of the list but it was well-liked and stands out as different in a sea of various Dangerous Alliance matches. One of the better late-career Jake performances--this is one to provide hard support to the idea of Roberts as a "ring general" instead of just repeating it as a cliche. - Sting/Steiners vs. Rude/Arn/Eaton (10/3 Worldwide). No Paul E. but a last-gasp 6-man effort in this feud. Loss called it the best TV match of the year's second half--I'm not as sure but this is made by a HOT crowd. -
We don't get it in full but I have to wonder just how believable it was for UT to work FIP against the Outlaws. Austin almost singlehandedly puts them away once he gets the hot tag. He offers UT a Steveweiser afterward and Undertaker accepts, and all seems to be well. Austin gets nailed from behind just as I'm wondering why there wasn't a Kane and Mankind run-in.
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Pretty good segment, with even Sable being tolerable. Jackie and Mero are declared the official bikini contest winners and both sell it like they've hit the lottery, then Vince takes up Sable on her wish to have this told to her face. McMahon is incredible here, taking time to browbeat photographers, Lawler, and that fan who threw the drink at him all while dressing down Sable and trying to put her in her place. As far as Russo-esque segments that don't build up to any kind of real match go, this was a winner.
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*sigh* Still two years away from Val and Rikishi beating the shit out of each other.
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Pretty smartly laid out match, that gets pretty good when Rock starts getting offense in. They did a good job of giving Rock an offensive run without undermining DX. And X-Pac was always a good opponent for him because he can make his rather loose offense look pretty killer, especially the Rock Bottom where X-Pac gets great height and looks dead afterward. A rift forms between DX and Rock takes advantage and bails.
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Nice knowing you, Doc. JR keeps his composure but is audibly pretty broken up when Williams goes down. I'm glad that at least AJPW saw fit to at least try to make some money out of this even if the WWF couldn't.
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They do nail the late-'90s MTV aesthetic, no question about that.
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Still more questions than answers after last night, though JR seems to believe that there's no longer a UT/Kane conspiracy. Vince and, apparently, Austin still aren't so sure.
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DDP represents no organization, he stands alone, so sayeth Michael Buffer. Does WCW have ANYBODY left? Page bumps well and works hard but this is nowhere near as good as their October '97 match because Hogan has fallen off since then. I don't go into a Hogan match expecting to see a Kawada clone in there, but he's *so* stiff, awkward, and loose at this point that it's actively distracting. Cheap finish and another tepid Wolfpack vs. Hollywood brawl. Goldberg then clears out NWO Hollywood, only to get met with a chokeslam by the Giant. There's no question that's a pretty decent main event or semi-main event match, so I didn't have a problem with Giant getting some heat on him. It may have worked better if Nitro had gone off the air with Goldberg still hanging in Giant's grip.
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I wish they'd put over that the security was there to protect everybody *else* from Goldberg. I agree with everything Loss said--about the entrance, about the decision to have him speak, and everything else. The first time Goldberg spoke should have been a shocking, spontaneous moment, triggered by an act so monumental that it *forced* him to break his silence. Hell, we can complain a ton about how they handled the Hogan-Sting title situation at the start of the year, but Sting's first real words in a year were good ones and well-timed. Same with Sabu calling out Taz or Kane speaking through his voice box (and then later without it). This...wasn't any of those. Goldberg breaks his silence to instead...say nothing particular of note. Oh, Goldberg vs. Brian Adams is tonight--yeah, that should put a dent in Austin-Mania. Goldberg effecting a Christian Bale/Batman-style raspy voice isn't really helping matters, either.
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Going to disagree here--they didn't engage in a down-and-dirty brawl, but the moves they did despite being athletic highspots weren't designed to be pretty--they were designed to hurt the opponent. Just a little bit of extra velocity and oomph to add that personal touch. The big DDT off the turnbuckle was a great-looking move but it was also a move designed for Dean to break Jericho's neck. The near-fall afterward with Jericho grasping the rope at 2.9 was fantastic, one of the very best of the year. And a finish right out of Memphis, which I loved as a capper to all this '90s cruiserweight flippy-flop stuff. I actually like that Jericho wrestles clean and does highspots for most of this--*then* when that fails, he turns to the knucks. Just a simple change in psychology from Memphis-style cheating that I've heard Tully Blanchard talk about--he tried to open his matches by wrestling clean and only turned to cheating as a last resort. In the end, they cycle through an epic cruiserweight bout in the span of about 6 minutes but it only feels slightly rushed--this was one of the better TV matches of the year.
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Definitely a throwaway in the annals of Attitude Era PPVs. The dueling-tag-champions gimmick isn't completely played out yet, but it's rapidly approaching that point. The action we see isn't really that good, with some weirdly inconsistent selling by Austin, but Undertaker does a really good job of working on the apron despite (or precisely because of) not doing anything until deciding to tag in.
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The opening video package is pure Springer and is the most entertaining part about this, though Dustin sure gives it the old college try himself. This...yeah, is what it is. It had greater effect when seeing boobs required real effort, especially for the Attitude Era's target audience. Sable's voice is still like nails on a chalkboard.
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I don't know of this match having any kind of rep at all outside of this thread, but this was *awesome.* The hatred was there, the stiffness was there, there was some wrasslin' stuff that was well-incorporated...I can see complaints about the screwjob, but they went about it creatively and they *did* sort of book themselves into a corner. You can't book Owen to tap Shamrock legitimately and the Hart family probably wasn't going to let the WWF into their home just so Owen can do a job. This ostensibly sets up a Shamrock-Severn feud that I don't think ever really comes about due to Russo's ADHD. In any case, this was terrific. It was short, but the way these two were going it couldn't have realistically lasted much longer. Agreed on Lawler's horrible giggling commentary, though.
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Too much walking around for my taste too, but Honma carries this to something pretty darn good with his selling, bumping, and overall flair for the dramatic. Shadow WX is basically a slightly more athletic Pogo who takes and takes and takes without giving much, but to his credit he's the first one to bump into the barbed wire board. Honma is a total masochist but he manages to make the stuff with the barbed wire look like it's "big" and important, instead of just a way to get off on bleeding. If this took place in the ECW Arena people would be hyping it up as a Match of the Year.
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A good studio match with some absolutely vicious punch battles between Travis and Dundee. I could watch Travis throw uppercuts all day. Brandon Baxter, working a weird martial arts gimmick and looking sort of like a karate version of Justin Credible, runs in along with a German guy named Heinrich Franz Keller. Big brawl and a quickie Lawler promo to end the show. These heels are all serviceable in their own way but this is definitely a thinner roster than even the '90s USWA had.
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An underwhelming addition to this angle, as this feels like Lawler tormenting Hales just because he can. Dave and Cory at least make sure to establish that they don't approve of Lawler's actions, either.
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Lawler does his damnedest to try to make something out of this. I don't know if he succeeded as Silva looks only marginally better than Giant Gonzalez. He's at least capable of executing some power moves. Afterward we get run-ins from Randy Hales, Bulldog Raines, Billy Joe Travis, and Stacy. A *lot* of imitation WWF spots, including a crotch chop from Hales and a Chyna-style low blow from Stacy. Hales eats a bunch of piledrivers. He's awkward as hell obviously, but I admit the sight of him ripping his shirt off in a blind rage exposing his toothpick arms is a funny sight.
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This just kept going and going and going for me, and while I understand these guys are all young the sloppiness and lousy fundamentals ended up taking me out of the match. They had a sense of a story structure here, to their credit, and ended things at the right time with the big table spot to a big pop. It probably says more about me than about OMEGA that I'd rather watch 500 matches involving those Anderson clones from the earlier indy match than another match of these four. Edit: Venom takes time after the match to address JEFFREY NERO HARDY. Ha! The endless mic spots both before and after the match further killed my mood, though.
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I'm going to be the downer on this and recite jdw from his old AJPW '90s Pimping post: it's a good match, even borderline great, but nowhere near an AJPW Top 20 of the '90s list. My main problem was there was a *lot* of problematic stuff that would really take center stage in NOAH, like an overreliance on apron spots and the "take a move and then pop up and hit a move of your own and then sell" shit that will never, ever appeal to me. I did appreciate Akiyama cutting off one of those attempted sequences by dropkicking Kobashi right in the knee as he was ready to pop up again. It does continue the story of Jun doing anything to win, as he focuses in on Kobashi's bad knee whereas Kobashi's other major opponents left it alone. This could make the MOTY list just because it's a weak year for great matches but it's hardly breathing down the spot for #1.
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Takayama hits a bunch of legdrops for an...anticlimactic ending, to say the least. It draws absolutely no pop because no one seemed to think for half a second that Izumida would actually get put away by that.
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Holy God, this is the worst Pulp Fiction of all-time. I've seen 60-minute draws that seemed shorter than the last two promos here. RVD's amusing Fonzie impression is the only thing keeping this from being one of the single worst segments on any Yearbook.