elliott

I wonder if Jumbo suffers somewhat from the same issue Hokuto faces with people starting off in the wrong places with footage. People usually first arrive at Jumbo for the first time through the Misawa feud or the Tenryu feud. I don't think anyone has ever been critical of the bully Jumbo phase and how even could you be? So going backwards and seeing a technically excellent match against Dick Murdoch or Rick Martel and seeing this different version of a more sporting Jumbo can be a little disappointing if you're experience is mostly grumpy Jumbo. You just want to see him be that 1990 version forever. Take someone like RIcky Steamboat. If you pick a match from any point in his career, he's gonna look really great but he's always gonna look like Ricky Steamboat. Jumbo from the 70s is awesome, but he doesn't really work anything like 1990 Jumbo. It could be hard to put that genie back in the bottle and get super into 70s-early 80s Jumbo, even while being able to recognize that it is technically great.

I ranked Terry #1 in 2016 and I can't imagine that changing. I wrote this elsewhere a couple of years ago and figured I'd cross post it. The best wrestler ever. The old argument that "Terry was great but lacks the classics you want from a #1 contender" that you'd hear, even from his biggest fans, years ago is dead and gone to me. There are probably 20-25 Terry Funk matches I would consider strong candidates for a top 100 matches of all time list and probably another 25-50 I think are great matches. At a minimum: He's one of the 10 best heels and 10 best babyfaces of all time. He was the straw that stirred the drink on one of the 10 best tag teams ever. He's one of the 10 best singles match wrestlers ever. He's one of the 10 best brawlers ever. As more title match style stuff comes out the stronger the case for him as an all time title match/technical style wrestler gets stronger and stronger. He's one of the great comedic wrestlers ever (Funk vs Martel in PR might be the funniest match ever). Beyond just in ring work, he's one of the 10 best talkers of all time. We can break down specific tools like offense, selling, and bumping and Terry will rate highly at every aspect. If you take a broader view of in ring traits like psychology, adaptability, versatility is there anyone ever better than Terry Funk? I also consider him the defining pro wrestler of the last 70 years (basically since TV). Terry Funk is pro wrestling. I know that's some eye-rolling, fan boy sounding stuff right there and I want to make something clear off the bat. I'm not saying he's the most important or influential or best drawing wrestler of the last 70 years. That would be crazy. But I think the story of pro-wrestling for the last 70 years is best told through Terry Funk. One might be inclined to call him the Forrest Gump of Pro Wrestling, but Funk was more active participant than passive viewer. Consider Terry Funk's highlights: 2nd Generation Pro Wrestler & Younger Brother of highly regarded Pro. Many popular wrestlers are 2nd generation stars & relatives of other wrestlers. It was a hard business to break into without connections. Played football at West Texas State. A crazy amount of West Texas State football players went on to have successful pro-wrestling careers. Terry started his career in the territory system. The primary business model for pro-wrestling prior to WWF's expansion. He had memorable feuds with the defining wrestlers of certain territories. vs Dusty Rhodes in Florida, Jerry Lawler in Memphis, etc. Terry was the 14th man to hold the NWA title, making himself & former champ Dory Jr the first pair of brothers to hold the NWA title. This meant that Terry had risen to the top of the industry. Terry was the top foreigner & one of the top wrestlers overall in Japan at a time when working in Japan was consider prestigious because of the pay scale and perks. When Stan Hansen jumped from NJPW to AJPW, he attacked Terry Funk. In general, Terry worked everywhere there was wrestling. North America, Asia, Europe & Africa. Had there been a match in Antarctica, surely it would have been between Terry Funk & either Abdullah the Butcher or Mark Lewin. (I don't think he worked South America, but nobody knows about that stuff anyway). When the WWF went national & changed the business, Terry Funk came in for a feud with Hulk Hogan. Terry appeared on the first ever WWF PPV, the Wrestling Classic. He worked the 2nd WrestleMania. He was on the 3rd Saturday Night Main Event & main evented the 4th against Hogan. When WCW went national & had arguably the greatest in ring year of any company ever, Terry Funk came in & feuded with Ric Flair. He became the first big Independent Star of the post territory world with big feuds guys like Eddie Gilbert, Kevin Sullivan, Abdullah & eventually Sabu & Cactus Jack. Was the first big star to main event ECW and would main event and win the world title at ECW's first PPV. Main evented the first FMW Anniversary Show at Kawasaki Stadium against Onita drawing 41,000 creating a tradition that lasted only 4 years but was extremely successful. Worked in WWF during Austin vs McMahon & worked in a pushed match on Mania 14 underneath Austin's coronation. Worked in WCW underneath Russo's madness. Worked post ECW independent nostalgia shows against guys like Lawler in Memphis, Douglas/Sabu in the North East, & Dusty in Florida. Worked the early post ECW independents like Ring of Honor or JAPW against the next generation like CM Punk & Homicide. Worked ECW National Revival for modern Corporate Share Holders WWE on PPV. He is currently retired but lives on via new media like Youtube or WWE Network. He worked against Baba, Inoki, Jumbo, Tenryu, Choshu, & Onita in Japan. He worked against Carlos Colon in Puerto Rico. Dusty & Jack Brisco in Florida. Bill Watts in Texas. Lawler in Memphis. Gene Kiniski in St. Louis. Sheik in Detroit. Harley in KC. etc etc In ECW he worked against Sabu, Shane Douglas, Public Enemy. In ROH he worked against CM Punk. He worked against Ric Flair, Ricky Steamboat, Sting, & Lex Luger in WCW. He worked against Bruno Sammartino, Hulk Hogan, Bret Hart, The Rock, Undertaker, & Steve Austin for The WWWF/WWF/WWE. (He even worked on a WWE PPV headlined by John Cena) He worked against world travelers Bruiser Brody, Abdullah the Butcher, Mil Mascaras, Mick Foley, Stan Hansen Mark Lewin, and Billy Robinson all over the world. He worked f0r WWWF Vince McMahon He worked for WWF Vince McMahon & WWE Vince McMahon and on screen MR MCMAHON. He worked for Giant Baba He worked for Carlos Colon He worked for Atsushi Onita He worked for ECW Heyman He worked for pre-NWO Eric Bischoff & post NWO Bischoff. He worked for attitude era WWF Vince Russo & fully unleashed cocaine nightmare WCW Vince Russo. He worked countless untelevised house shows, local syndicated tv shows, national tv shows, cable tv shows, and ppv shows many of which have been available on 8mm film, vhs, laser disc, dvd, blu ray & now streaming online. He has worked territories, national promotions, independent promotions & corporate promotions. He has won & defended the NWA World Title. He has also worked in empty arena matches & barbed wire exploding death matches. If I wanted to tell the story of Pro-Wrestling over the last 70 years, I would tell it through Terry Funk. He is pro wrestling and he is the greatest of all time.

I ranked Satanico 2nd in 2016. Feel great about that. I've probably said enough about Satanico

I ranked Tenryu #3 in 2016 and that's yet another one I feel great about. I do expect Tenryu to drop just by virtue of now thinking Fujiwara is the best Japanese mens worker ever whereas I used to have Tenryu there. But you're not gonna catch me criticizing him. I disagree with the notion that he lacks all time classics. He's got them in pretty much every setting you could hope for. Tenryu rules. Mr Puroresu indeed.

I ranked Hijo del Santo #4 in 2016. Crushing it.

I ranked Stan Hansen #5 in 2016. Nailed. It.

I ranked Lawler #6 in 2016 and I feel great about that. I could see him challenging for my #2. He's the best US based wrestler ever.

Hahahaha. I shouldve flip flopped him and Flair. But the next 8 people are better.

I ranked Yoshiaki Fujiwara #7 in 2016 and I feel great about that one. I could see him challenging my #2 spot. Hes the best male Japanese wrestler ever.

I ranked Tatsumi Fujinami 8th in 2016 and I feel great about that. I very much doubt I'll rank him that high again, but it won't be much lower. I think he's awesome, one of the best of all time and I would strongly encourage anyone to watch as much Fujinami as possible. Him finishing in the top 20 in 2016 was a big win overall in my mind and I would put him ahead of most of the people that finished in the top 20 ahead of him.

I voted him 9th in 2016 and I feel great about that. I agree with everything everyone said in this thread and have nothing further to add about Ric Flair.

I voted Nick Bockwinkel #10 in 2016. Nailed it.

THANK YOU! OMG ONITA IS THE OTHER GUY!!!

EXCUSE ME????????? Link please

Seriously. WTF. I pledge not to hold Ric Flair's post-prime against him and I will not count Ken's non-box work against him.

I voted Hashimoto 11th in 2016. This is another one I think might be a little high but then when I think about his career and the things I value, Hashimoto at 11 feels good. Maybe even a little low. Hash was GREAT early. He stayed great. He was great at the sort of wrestling I really love. He has a shit load of great matches against a variety of opponents. He's awesome in singles and tags. He has that special aura. He's one of those folks I don't rank #1 but anytime I see someone put Hash there or around there I think "yes! This person has excellent wrestling opinions." Hash rules.

I voted Kiyoshi Tamura 12th in 2016. Its too low. He's one of the 30 people I want in my top 10. I think he was the best wrestler on Earth from 95-99 and again in the early 00s when he came back. On the short list for greatest athlete in the history of wrestling. His career story arch is more interesting than Volk Han and his peak might be better. Those two are so interconnected and I'll have them next to each other. Hopefully in the top 10.

Ken the Box Epic brawler with a knack working psychological masterpieces. On the short list of most interesting characters in wrestling history and the definition of the wrestler you want to see vs anybody. Ken the Box vs Brock Lesnar? Ken the Box vs Lou Thesz? Ken the Box vs Jaguar Yokota? Ken the Box vs Sabu? Ken the Box vs Shinya Hashimoto? Ken the Box vs Abdullah the Butcher? Ken the Box vs Kenta Kobashi (Battle of the Kens!)? These are all guarateed 5 star matches. I challenge anyone to come up with an opponent for Ken the Box that wouldn't be a 5 star match. He's the only wrestler in history you could say that about. Ken the Box is the ultimate cheat code. He solved pro-wrestling. Ken the Box vs Survival Tobita 8/23/99 Ken the Box vs Survival Tobita The Rematch Ken the Box vs Sano vs Survival Tobita

I voted Jushin Liger 13th in 2016 and I feel great about that. Its a little bit higher than I expect to rate him this time around but he'll be in my top 20ish area. He holds up better than any other 90s Junior. The matches vs Hashimoto & vs Aoyagi are two of my favorite NJPW matches of the 90s and they aren't worked like typical juniors matches at all. Liger could just do it all. I dunno. I look at some of the people below him on my list and above him on my list and low teens feels about right and then part of me is like "whats the argument that takes Liger out of the top 5" and I'm like hmmmm...I don't have one? Liger is great. He's the Daniel Bryan of his generation.

I voted Buddy Rose 14th in 2016. Nailed it.

I voted Negro Casas 15th in 2016 and I think I nailed that one. Casas is clearly an all time great and a #1 candidate, but I've never connected with him as much as like Santo or Terry Funk or someone else i might rank above him. Comfortably in the top 20. I could see myself ranking him in the top 5 or somewhere in this range. Everyone Ill have in my top 20 is someone I think about as a top 5 performer.

We've sort of entered the range where everyone I list off will be a #1 contender. I used to be there with you on Jumbo but can't quite get there anymore. I think 70s Jumbo is an awesome young wrestler but I think the old "top 10 for the 70s" line (of which I definitely used to agree with) overstates things. There's stuff from the early 80s that I love (that Kerry match will always be a favorite), but looking around the worldwide wrestling scene Jumbo's stuff isn't as interesting as what's happening in NJPW with Choshu vs Fujinami or UWF1.0 or the absolute game changers in AJW. And that's just Japan. Once Choshu comes in though and the switch flips he's as good as anyone around until he gets sick. You won't see argue really hard against a Jumbo for #1 candidacy. I can explain why I wouldn't put him at #1 but I can just easily explain why someone else might put him at #1. He's one of those dudes. Like Ed mentioned above he wants to look at Jumbo's pre-90s non-Tenryu work and I can happily make a shit ton of recommendations for great pre-90s Jumbo and feel confident I've set him down a good path. Oh that reminds me. I wanted to point something out for Ed and anyone else who is reading and newly approaching JUmbo & also to just clear up what I mean about something for Jumbo fans.... I keep saying "when the switch flips." I don't mean to suggest that the "switch flips" and Jumbo goes from bad to good or good to great or anything like that. He's already great before the switch. He was really good from day 1 and great really quickly. Its a stylistic switch. In the 70s/early 80s he's working that classic NWA Title match style. He's great at it. WHen Choshu invades and the "switch flips" we (I) mean that's when he starts to work more aggressively. He comes off more vicious and is a lot stiffer. He cuts out some mat work and adds some strikes. He was always doing a bunch of moves, so he didn't need to add a ton there, but the lariats got stiffer, the knee strikes got stiff, the suplexes got a lot bit nastier and he just kept going in that direction and it fucking rules. The turn to pissed off Jumbo is fantastic. But he's a great classic wrestler before that too and if someone really loves that stuff, I get it.

I ranked Jumbo Tsuruta 16th in 2016 and I'm fine with that. Its a little higher than I expect to go this time around, but he won't fall as far as some others. I'm not as in love with the first half of his career as I used to be, but I'm head over heels in love with his 86-92. One of my favorite offensive wrestlers ever. I love a Jumping Knee.

I ranked El Dandy 17th in 2016 and thats another one I nailed. Definitely a top 20 wrestler. Could do anything in the ring. Was as graceful as he was vicious. The Pirata Morgan match is one of the best matches ever. The fucking Satanico feud. The Angel Azteca matches. He got really great really fast and at his best was about as good as anyone. Its been a while since I've really looked at Dandy so he's someone I plan on and really look forward to revisiting again.

I ranked Toshiaki Kawada 18th in 2016 and I have nothing further to add about Kawada.