elliott

I don't see how someone can look at the 8/90 tag match for example and say Kong is on the same level as a performer. The famous kendo stick spot is sort of symbolic of this fact and worked as such with Nakano no selling Aja's weak ass shots and then ripping Kimura's stick away from her and instead of going after her, Bull specifically goes over to Aja and breaks the kendo stick over her head. Showing Aja how hard she needs to hit if she wants to compete on Bull's level. Aja by 1992 has greatly improved and is lightyears ahead of where she was...because she spent the previous years learning at the feet of BUll Nakano. Watch an Aja match from 1988. You'll think its a different person. By the time Bull was through with her, Aja had turned into the world class worker we'd all come to love. I also think Aja never had matches better than the ones she had against Bull, but I think Bull had better matches than the ones she had with Aja. I really don't exaggerate when I say pick any match and Bull is working with a lesser opponent and that she was the best person in every match she was in from like 1990 up through the 1993 Devil match. We can watch the matches now knowing what would happen, but when Bull is working against Manami Toyota or Kyoko Inoue in 1990, they aren't MANAMI TOYOTA or KYOKO INOUE yet. They're 2-2 1/2 year vets are that point who don't have a ton of big match experience. You can watch the matches and clearly see Bull is leading the matches and responsible for the structure and psychology during those 90-92 years.

Everyone always says they're two of the best "Big Match" performers. Who do you prefer? Who is gonna rank higher for you and why?

OH, Grimmas beat me to it haha!

I think she's clearly the better wrestler in almost all of her matches from 1990 up until the Devil Masami match in 1993. Seriously pick any one. Bull is the established star the next generation if measuring themselves against for that entire stretch. Like Nakano vs Kong in 1990 is Bull against a lesser known opponent. Just because we know Kong as a legend now doesn't mean she was an all time great worker or even a vey good worker in 1990. Bull dragged her to greatness over that 3 year period.

Toyota by all metrics excluding which wrestler Vince is most attracted too and maybe blading?

Yagi is awesome but suffers from having a short career and was not as good as BUll Nakano

I agree with all of this. Both I could see him taking a tumble, and hoping he doesn't. He's right there with Lawler & Flair as the best US worker of his era. What do Buddy skeptics need to see?

People have tend to have super chill opinions about these two not polarizing wrestlers. Who ya got

You could argue that they did. Like all those hours spent on washed up Ric Flair could have gone to any number of other performers.

I love Ricky Morton. The Rock n Roll's are actually probably still my pick for GOAT Tag Team. I could easily see him in my top 15. I still think Chigusa is the answer here.

Two of the coolest ever. Who ya got?

The 2016 #1 vs who I think is the overwhelming favorite for 2026's #1. Who ya got?

The NXT CHris Hero match? Does Arn have a singles performance as good as that?

This is a good one. Someone less biased than me might think its close or even put Ceasaro ahead. Intellectually I can see the argument for Ceasaro which is a credit to his talent because most modern people you could compared to Eaton I'd just dismiss outright. That's not the case here. In the end Eaton has certain advantages for me that Ceasaro couldn't overcome. I could never put a european uppercut dude over someone that punches like Bobby Eaton. Plus Ceasaro never teamed with Stan Lane and "Ceasaro" just isn't nearly as cool as "Beautiful Bobby"

I havent' seen enough Kana/Asuka to fairly answer. I was going to ask if she spit mist out because that's a clear advantage for Tajiri has over most people. A quick search reminded me I had correctly remembered that she does indeed spit mist. So its back to an even comparison. That'll definitely make things more difficult.

Battle of #19 vs #21 from the 2016 results.

What is the best Ron Simmons match? Aside from Doom.

What are the hate filled bloody Rey jr brawls? Sign me up please.

The best big man ever vs the best little man ever. Who ya got.?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5s1olSYcNTM This is one of my favorite US matches of the 90s. Fuck thats an understatement, this is just staight up one of my favorite matches ever and one I find myself thinking about from time to time and will use any excuse I can to recommend it. Its in a small gym so there are basketball hoops way to close to the ring (all wrestling should take place on basketball courts, on baseball fields, or floating in a pool/lake/ocean). The place is packed and super into the match and the performers. Jim Cornette is there getting involved. The top rope falls off so they just say fuck it and keep having match. Just an awesome spectacle. In addition to the awesome WWE run , theres a lot more to his career. I really love his early 90s work and had sort of forgotten how awesome it was until I rewatched some of that stuff over the last 5 years. I thought the famous 3 stages match against Gilbert really holds up as an awesome brawl. The Las Vegas match against Sabu from 1994 is an all timer. One of my favorites from either guy. Weirdly I think several of his matches with Terry Funk are on the disappointing side and then they'll have something like the 1/95 death match or an awesome ECW tags and its like "ITS FOLEY VS FUNK OF COURSE IT RULES." I mentioned the Sting matches earlier but its worth repeating for forever that Cactus vs Sting was a super matchup. I love the Nasty Boys matches. Like you don't want the list of tag matches I think are worse than the Nasty's. I think if you split FOley's career in half Pre-WWE & Post-WWE, both versions would be candidates for the top 100.

Oh come on. Now he was more important than the Rock?

Exactly. The real feud was Austin vs McMahon. Foley was one of McMahon's henchmen he ran at Austin. Foley was a supporting character in a much bigger feud. He was an important character and key figure, but I'd credit him less than 1% for Steve Austin's success.

The Unforgiven show drew 300,000 buys in April. On the lower end for the year, but about average if you exclude the big 4 PPVs. The Over the Edge show in May drew 200,000 buys. Only No Way Out with the 8 man tag drew less. The 2nd Foley match drew about 85,000 fewer PPV buys than the next worse drawing show of the year excluding the No Way Out show. Shit, Over the Edge drew closer to the No Way Out show than it did to the next worse drawing show of the year. If we're ranking people or career moments important to the Steve Austin rise to megastardom you'd have to put Foley behind Austin himself, Vince, Tyson, Shawn, I almost forgot Bret somehow!, Undertaker. Hell, the Owen Hart neck break match was more important to Austin's career storyline than those Foley matches.

Am I forgetting some feud he had with Steve Austin other than the Dude Love matches?

I love Foley but I think its safe to say Austin still becomes Austin without the Dude Love matches and Rock still would have gone on to become the biggest movie star in the world too had he feuded with someone else. Not saying Foley didn't play an important role in getting the Rock over, but Rock was/is just special and was going to be a huge star no matter what. Is Undertaker the mega star because of the Foley feud in the mid 90s or because of the enduring gimmick & WrestleMania streak? Other than Vince & Steph he did more to make HHH than anyone, I can't argue that. But I also count that as a negative (not really those matches are amazing) I think one of the bigger points in Foley's favor is that as a washed up shell of himself he managed to have the only great/interesting/timeless Randy Orton match despite Orton having another 15+ years & all the opportunities in the world to top it and never coming close. Edit I also wanted to throw some more love at the Sting matches because we all said "interesting" more times than we said "Sting" in this thread. Sting is someone who I think was better than his old reputation but not exactly great. Lacking in truly great matches except the Vader series and the Cactus matches. There's not a Flair vs Sting match better than either Sting vs Cactus match. The famous Vader trio is Sting's career achievement. But the Cactus matches and that DDP Nitro match are the next best things Sting ever did. Its a credit to Foley that he was able to get such great matches out of guy who had plenty of opportunities but rarely ever hit that level with anyone else.