In this thread:
We posed some general questions you might ask when discussing a wrestler for the Greatest Wrestler Ever list. I’m going to tackle all of the questions in regards to Tommy Rich’s candidacy.
GWE Gordy List Questions:
1. What kind of candidate is this wrestler (Peak vs Longevity,Peak+ Longevity, Big Match Wrestler, Week to Week Performer etc) and what range would you consider ranking them?
I would describe Tommy as a big match Arena worker. Based on the footage we have he has a good peak stretching from probably 1981-1987. In that era he pretty much always delivers as a face or heel in singles matches or tags. He’s good before that but our footage is limited. Tommy is good after that and sometimes great but I don’t think he’s as consistent as he was in that 81-87 era. Or at least I’d say we have the wrong type of footage but we’ll talk about that later.
I’m not sure where I’ll rank Tommy Rich. I likely will. With more arena footage from the 70s & 80s he’d almost certainly be a top 50 lock. But with what we have I’m not sure if I can firmly put him there comfortably. I think he’s more of a candidate for the bottom 50 of the list than the top 50.
2. What is your elevator pitch for this wrestler to be a Top 100 Wrestler? (Sum up their case in a short paragraph).
Tommy was an awesome old school southern brawler. He knew how to play babyface & heel. He made his name as a babyface but might be even better as a heel. He’s great in singles & tag matches. Knows how to use selling, body language & psychology to tell stories so he can work with a wide variety of people & have a quality match with them. Great in the arena in front of a live crowd and it definitely translates on film in big matches. All time great puncher. Great bleeder. His best matches are some of the all time best and he was also in a number of classic angles.
2. Were they ever the best wrestler in the world? Were they ever the best wrestler in their country? Were they ever the best wrestler in their promotion? Who were some of their competitors for the best wrestler in the world, country, and promotion?
Tommy was never the best wrestler in the world, the US or even his promotion. At his peak, Rich was in a promotion with Jerry Lawler at his peak. Lawler is a candidate for best wrestler of all time. Rich is great but he isn’t that. Rich was never the best wrestler in WCW or ECW. He may have been the best wrestler in GCW in the early 80s but its harder to get a sense because of a lack of arena footage.
3. How many years were they a top worker (top worker being a candidate for top 10 wrestler in the world)? Who were some of the other top workers of this era?
I don’t think Tommy Rich was ever a top 10 worker in the world even in his prime. His prime directly lines up with some of the greatest workers of all time like Jerry Lawler, Terry Funk, Stan Hansen, Buddy Rose, El Satanico, Nick Bockwinkel, Ric Flair, Riki Choshu, Ricky Morton, Randy Savage, Jaguar Yokota, Devil Masami, Chigusa Nagayo, Dump Matsumoto, Sgt Slaugther, Michael Hayes, Itsuki Yamazaki, Tatsumi Fujinami, Invader, Yoshiaki Fujiwara, Perro Aguayo, Sangre Chicana, etc etc. I think Rich’s peak almost exactly coincides with the years I think wrestling was at its absolute strongest & deepest on a world wide level. Not being a top 10 worker in this era does not prevent someone from being a candidate for my list. Being a top 10 worker in this era basically guarantees you’re a top 50 worker on my list.
4. Were they a great worker before their prime? Were they a great worker after their prime? How great were they (were they a best in the world, country, promotion candidate while before their prime/after their prime)
It is hard to get a sense of Tommy before his prime. He looks good in the brief amount of footage we have from the 70s but not really enough to determine how good he really was. Good enough to get a push & opportunities at a very young age. After his prime Tommy showed flashes of greatness. I wasn’t able to find as much mid 90s indy arena footage as I would’ve liked but what we do have reflects very well on Tommy. He was capable of having very good performances as late as 2001. Again consistent footage is difficult to come by after this but eventually Tommy does fall apart and reaches a point where you don’t really want to watch him any more even if he can still be carried by a more talented performer.
At his peak, Tommy was really great. In another era he would’ve been a best in the world candidate but because he was in such a stacked time period he could never crack the truly elite tier. But he was knocking on the door underneath it.
5. Did they have the opportunities to produce a large body of excellent matches?
IF YES
Yes!
5a Do they have a large body of excellent matches?
I would describe it as a fair amount of excellent matches due to the footage bias. When we got a look at Tommy in Mid South Coliseum or the Omni or some other arena, he looks fucking amazing and tends to deliver great matches. Even past his prime when he gets a chance to work a match for a live crowd he can still really deliver quality work. Unfortunately so much of what we have of Tommy is these short 2-6 minute rote TV matches. I know “you can have a great 5 minute match” but that wasn’t the expectation or business model. These are like showcase exhibition matches that leave you wanting to see the arena matches and that’s exactly what they do. And then when we see the arena matches ,oh boy does Tommy deliver.
5b Do they have a large body of excellent matches against a variety of opponents?
We’ve got excellent matches with Austin Idol, Bill Dundee, Masked Superstar, Jerry Lawler, Buzz Sawyer, Ted Dibiase, Eddie Gilbert, Abdullah the Butcher, Brad Armstrong, Lex Luger, Dick Murdoch, Harley Race, Terry Funk, and Steve Corino. When you add in tag matches you get even more including Bam Bam Bigelow, Stan Lane, Steve Keirn, Arn Anderson, Ole Anderson, Michael Hayes, Jimmy Garvin, Snowman, Soul Train Jones, The Nightmares, Phil Hickerson, The Spoiler, The Pretty Young Things, Tully Blanchard, Gino Hernandez, Dutch Mantell, The Bounty Hunters. Pretty large variety of people. Some all time greats and some ok people.
5c Do they have a large body of excellent matches in a variety of settings? (for example singles, tags, gimmicks, no gimmicks, brawls, technical, short matches, long matches etc)
Not as many technical matches, though there’s some solid ones mixed in including a weirdly fun straight up match with Moondog Rex in Memphis. But otherwise yes Tommy shines in singles, tags as the babyface as the heel, in arenas especially. He’s great in violent brawls and schticky stoogy stuff.
5d How much of those excellent matches were a direct result of their performance?
Many of them. The really outlandish one is Halloween Havoc 1990 where he teams with Ricky Morton against the MX and Morton works 99.9% of the match. But otherwise Tommy always adds to his matches with and is a big part of why they’re great. He’s a great brawler who participates in great brawls for the most part.
6. Do they work in a way that is consistent with the way they're booked & presented?
Definitely. Tommy is really great switching between face & heel, working within a hierarchy etc.
7. What are their standout traits? (For example, selling, psychology, offense, character work etc)
Tommy is great at babyface selling from underneath. Heel stooging & bumping. Great punches. Psychology & match structure. Great at switching gears as a heel going from a stooging more comedic routine to a hard hitting vicious fighter within the same match.
8. Did they make the people and workers around them better?
Yes. Tommy was a willing bumper & seller as a babyface and would stooge out as a heel to put his opponent over. Tommy is also really good at adding structure & story to matches which helps more inexperienced workers have good matches.
9. Is there any reason to believe that this wrestler was better or worse than they appeared?
Tommy is hurt badly by footage availability. He’s absolutely amazing in arena matches working in front of a live crowd in his prime and even in his post prime. But the majority of the footage we have of Tommy is either in short rote GCW TV matches meant to act as a showcase to get you to want to come to the arena. And then post prime WCW TV matches where he really just farts around unfocused for about 3 years with plenty of quality performances but rarely in a featured role. If we had as many Omni Arena matches in complete form as we did GCW TV matches there’s little doubt that Tommy would fly up my list. But he’s really hurt by the setting of the footage. If you watch him against Austin Idol at the Omni or Jerry Lawler in Mid South Coliseum you can see the wrestler Tommy Rich really was. You don’t get as good of a sense of him in the endless sea of WCW matches.
10. If you had to pick 5-10 matches (Or more) to sell someone on this wrestler what would they be? (Not necessarily the best matches but ones that are best representative of the wrestlers’ GWE case).
11. Feel free to recommend more matches here if you like!
12. Any final thoughts you’d like to share?
Yeah Tommy Rich the Arena wrestler is amazing. With more footage of him working house shows in the 80s and 90s he’d be a lock for the top 50. In 2016 I ranked Tommy Rich 86th. At the beginning of this deep dive if you’d ask me where I’d rank Tommy I’d say somewhere between 50-100 or maybe not at all. If you ask me now, I’d say maybe between 50-100 or not at all. Footage bias really hurts him. If you just watch all of his WCW TV matches there’s no way hes’ a top 100 wrestler ever. But digging into that arena footage you really get to see Tommy in his element. I’m strongly leaning in favor of ranking him because he was great at the sort of wrestling I like the most.
Jmare’s question from 2022
What's the candidate's biggest weakness? Was he/she able to overcome it (or work around it) and how?"
Tommy’s biggest weakness was probably bad execution. He wasn’t going to wow you with bridging suplexes or whatever. He was able to overcome it by perfecting a style based on schtick & punching. He could do a few flashy spots but who really gives a shit if Tommy gets great height on the Lou Thesz press after he and Buzz Sawyer just tried to murder each other. Tommy’s able to craft compelling matches where you don’t really notice that his execution might not really be smooth.
Loss’ questions from 2015 – some of these have already been answered so I’ll just focus on the ones that haven’t really been touched on.
How does he compare to others who have taken on a similar role in different eras?
Tommy’s role was pretty unique because he went from youngest world champion ever & major star to guy trying to make his way back up the ladder before he was 35. As far as underdog babyfaces & slimeball southern heels go, Tommy definitely stands out as a memorable character & performer.
Was he an effective babyface and an effective heel?
Most definitely.
Was he frequently tested as a worker? Could he make seemingly no-win situations work?
It depends. In his prime from the early to mid/late 80s Tommy could really make anything work. In WCW he was tested in the sense that they didn’t really give him a focused run and just sort threw him out there to have matches. Sometimes they were really good sometimes they were disappointing. He had a good run of matches with people like Joel Deaton, Bill Irwin, Arachnaman etc. Nothing incredibly memorable but he wasn’t really featured in a way to make those matches memorable. When he got opportunities he rose to the occasion.
Could he carry lesser wrestlers?
I actually think Tommy was really good working with lesser workers. He’s not out there dragging dudes to MOTYC. He doesn’t have a Daniel Bryan carrying HHH to a classic moment. But Tommy knew what he could & couldn’t do & knew how to structure matches as a singles, tag team worker, babyface or heel so he could provide a psychological base of a match that allows lesser workers to just focus on doing what they can do.
Could he have good and effective short matches? Could he have good and effective long matches?
Tommy is one of the great short match workers. We don’t have a ton of really long Tommy Rich mathes. The longest top out at around 20minutes and stand out as some of his best matches.
What are his best physical skills? Did he use those skills well?
Great at expressive body language which allowed him to get over great as an underdog babyface and also a stooging over the top heel. You don’t need to know anything about Tommy’s career but you can flip on a match & know immediately if he’s a young up and coming babyface, a veteran beloved babyface, a dangerous heel or a comedic stooge.
How would you describe his psychology? Was it effective? Does it hold up to scrutiny?
Memphis master. It is definitely effective. He is able to garner crowd responses as a washed up veteran working depressing looking indy shows because he knows how to work a match.
How was his selling?
One of the best of his era & a strong point. There’s not a lot of great examples of limb work if that’s what you’re looking for but Tommy is great at selling exhaustion, selling a war, selling arrogance, frustration. Selling is all about body language and this was something Rich was really exceptional at.
How was he at structuring matches? Did they typically have a strong beginning, middle and end?
Always. He always followed a classic southern match structure regardless of his position or heel/face alignment.
Did he take chances as a worker? Did he recover well when something unexpected happened?
He honestly really doesn’t take a lot of chances. You pretty much know what you’re getting with Tommy. He didn’t really work outside of himself much. He knew what he could and couldn’t do. Occasionally he’d surprise you like the Moondog Rex match in Memphis in front of Lou Thesz that’s worked as like a classis sporting match or his singles match with Eddie Gilbert in WCW that is a classic babyface vs babyface sporting match. He shows he can do those things. But with Tommy you really are either going to get a fun TV style match or an awesome brawl.
Was he influential? Did anyone copy his style, and if so, was that copying a good or bad thing for wrestling?
Tommy was not influential.
How was he in tag matches and/or gimmick matches?
Tommy is a great tag worker. His teams with Eddie Gilbert, Austin Idol & Ricky Morton are probably the most memorable but he was in so many just solid random tags with a random partner.
In gimmick matches Tommy is amazing. Some of the best matches of his career are in gimmick matches. He’s great at doing wild bloody gimmicks but he was also really good at like WCW TV match gimmicks like a Lumberjack match on Clash of the Champions where its not some wild match but just a solid fun match that gets over the stipulation really well. He knows how to utilize the gimmick within the match really well. If you see a Tommy Rich gimmick match, run to it.
Did he have a high number of good matches?
Yes given the available footage.
Was he typically the driving force in his best matches?
Yes and no. In the arena match footage he’s aways awesome and has a real understanding of crowd psychology. But he’s often in there against guys like Lawler or Austin Idol in his best matches who are also awesome.
Are there any unique factors that you think play into his career that may not apply to everyone else?
He was the first national TV star and the youngest NWA World Champion ever when he won it. This set a sense of expectations for his future that he could never possibly live up to. So even though he was a GREAT wrestler in 1984 teaming with Eddie Gilbert, he was still a former World Champ who was now in a rip off tag team. Taking a step down like that on a major level in the middle of your working prime definitely has to wound your pride.
Lastly do you still want to watch this wrestler?
In the arena, fuck yes. But I don’t really ever need to see a WCW tag match or a GCW 4 minute singles match ever again. But if you told me there’s a new match with the Nightmares or against Austin Idol, I’d rush out to see it.
