S.L.L.

I meant anybody off this message board. go to any wrestling event, ask any mature male and they will tell you that they hate him. I'm not exaggerating. No, you're lying or delusional. I really wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt, but it's obvious you don't really have anything of substance to add here outside of the usual anti-Cena talking points. Kudos on trying to disguise them behind the acknowledgment of his talent in-ring, but it's obvious you've still got some kind of axe to grind with him, because at this point you seem more interested in ignoring actual salient defenses of Cena in favor of spouting off wild, baseless speculation, worn-out, discredited talking points, and outright lies than you are in actually discussing Cena's merits as a draw. Beat it kid. Ya bother me.

I'm the biggest star in wrestling history! How do these dudes keep forgetting I exist, brother? Stone Cold's lookin' at his watch, and it looks like he was the top face in the WWF for two years straight, and probably would've been longer if he didn't get hurt and the dumbasses in charge didn't turn him heel when he came back. After that, they had a couple years where the WWF/E was basically the Triple H show. What Stone Cold wants to know from you is when the WWF/E has ever focused on one guy as the center of the promotion for less than two years? What people want is a reason to complain. And luckily for them, they always have one, even if they have to make it up.

I have a history of long-windedness on the internet, so every now and then I try to make a point succinct. Unfortunately, the point of my smartass comment maybe needed further expansion. Response to Jingus' Post: Take 2 And your point is?

And?

Then again, Cena has been booked as the unstoppable superman for so long that it's unprecedented in recent wrestling history. You have to go back to Hogan to find someone who lost fewer matches. You know, I could just hand you those straws if you want.

Ask ANYBODY and they will tell you they are sick of Cena, Jingus is right. I really don't buy that this is the case. Simply stating it as common sense doesn't make it so. Well, it would be nice to appeal to everyone, but I wouldn't dismiss the value of kids and female customers. You could do a lot worse than have kids as your target audience. It's not like it's a strategy that hasn't payed off a million times in the past...and realistically, is paying off now. He is cheered. You put him up against another face in a match designed to split the crowd, he gets booed. You put him up against an honest-to-God heel, everyone cheers him. I'm not seeing the problem other than him being in too many programs against faces. Why? It's worked since the dawn of man. It's not arbitrarily stopping now. He IS overexposed. I firmly believe the problem will increase if hes continually pushed into the spotlight. Do you not think that, say, Orton wins the belt, has a decent reign, then Cena eventually comes back and chases the belt, would make for a bigger deal than the redundant 'Cena retains' you see all over PPV results? No, and phrasing it as a rhetorical question doesn't make it so. And you kind of dodged the question I posed there. If Cena is overexposed, how does having him chase the belt instead of hold it change that? It got us three months worth of Hollywood Rock. I mean, I loved Hollywood Rock, but let's not act like it was some kind of Earth-shattering maneuver that saved his wrestling career. Not to mention that was the spring of 2003, and he was first starting to get booed against Austin early in 2001, so it's not like they were all over that, either. You can write as many words in all-caps as you want, their reason for keeping him face isn't that far-fetched: he's making them a bunch of money, way more than anybody since that Rock guy you mentioned went to Hollywood and didn't come back. He could pull off being a heel very well, but I could pull off stripping naked, dousing myself in ketchup, and running down my street warning people of the impending alien invasion. That doesn't mean I actually SHOULD do it. It's working. Your personal opinion on the matter doesn't really change that. What Bix said. People just aren't going to buy a PPV every five seconds at several million dollars a pop, even if it's a heel John Cena chasing the title held by Jesus Christ.

1. If the problem is Cena being overexposed, why are house show ticket sales and merchandise sales so high up? 2. If the problem is Cena being overexposed, how is taking the belt off of him and having him chase the title supposed to fix that? He'll be on TV just as much...if not more. 3. Does it really matter if he's getting X-Pac heat (when facing other faces or heels that try to undercut him; he wasn't drawing X-Pac heat against Umaga or Khali) when people are still paying to see him? If they chose to register their dislike for him by not showing up to his matches, that would be one thing. But that's not happening. 1. Austin has been connected to WWE in some manner for eleven years. He's spent just under two years of that time as a heel. He spent about half a year of that time actually getting booed. He wasn't exactly Lex Luger. 2. Incidentally, Lex Luger would like to inform you that frequent turns usually don't make fans more interested in you. 3. After the blue chipper stuff, Rock had about six years of connection to WWE. He spent about a year of that as a heel who actually got booed, spent a little under a year as a heel who got cheered, three years as a face who got cheered all the time, and a year as a face who often got cheered, but also was frequently booed against other faces as certain cool heels....you know, like John Cena. My point being that Rock's periods of immense popularity didn't seem to have any real connection to his face/heel status. 4. I have no concrete evidence of this, but something tells me the popularity of Austin and Rock had very, very little to do with the length of their title reigns. 1. If you want to talk about the difference in exposure between Cena and Hogan, the difference in exposure between the modern day weekly TV champ and the NWA touring heel champ is vastly bigger, and makes a vastly bigger difference. It's one thing when Flair or Funk or Thesz shows up to your town a couple times a year, acts like a dick, gets beat on by the local face, but squeaks out a win or a draw or gets DQ'd and runs away. It's another thing when the champ is a heel on TV every week, always pulling out the win, while the faces never get a break and, on the rare instances they do, get it yanked away from them just as quick. 2. Unless of course you're talking about Flair post-Crockett going national, which is ridiculous because he was so thoroughly outdrawn by Hogan. Cox need look no further than Ric Flair for someone who proves him right.

"That doesn't work for me, brother!"

I could basically quote this entire page. If you knew, then it just goes back to the original question: what's your beef with him not speaking English?

*Sigh* THE GREAT KHALI PRESENTLY HAS A MANAGER. HIS NAME IS "RUNJIN SINGH", AND HE TRANSLATES KHALI'S HINDI SHOUTING INTO ENGLISH FOR THE AMERICAN AUDIENCES. HE HAS BEEN PROMINENTLY FEATURED FOR SEVERAL MONTHS NOW. IT IS KIND OF HARD TO COMPLAIN ABOUT KHALI NOT SPEAKING ENGLISH AND NOT HAVING A MANAGER WHEN HE HAS A MANAGER WHO SPEAKS ENGLISH FOR HIM. IT IS ALSO KIND OF HARD TO NOT NOTICE THAT THIS HAS BEEN HAPPENING IF YOU HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN WATCHING WWE PROGRAMMING THE PAST FEW MONTHS. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS NOW, OR WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO REPOST THIS BOLDED WITH LARGER TEXT?

As you wish Mr. Brambilla. As to your question, Wikipedia's page on the WWE roster just says she's unassigned talent. It doesn't sound like they've decided what to do with her just yet.

Oh...my...God....... SHOOTNAMES HAVE BEEN UTTERED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You think I want my name associated with this retard anywhere on the Net? Shut up. And grow up. You're trying too hard to impress strangers. Run and paste this too. You forgot to mock my daddy issues.

And Khali's had two. Seriously, Jingus, if you're going to complain about what the WWE is doing wrong, you could at least read the spoilers or results to make sure your complaints actually match reality.

So why the hell are you railing on me for saying he's bad? 1. Because he's not THAT bad 2. Because your reasons for finding him and Khali bad struck me as dumb That said, most of what you said in this post was pretty reasonable, even if I disagree with some of it, though I still don't really get your beef with his non-English speaking.

What did it "mean" in the first place? Were there trophies given out, or an induction ceremony? It seems like this is the world's most glorified version of Meltzer sitting around with a bunch of buddies arguing over which wrestlers were better. Basically, yeah. It was just fun wrestling discussion organized into a certain form. Or it least it was supposed to be. Dave is a real mark for lists, and this just sort of became that pretty quickly. Actually, it was pretty much that from the outset. The original class was hand-picked by Dave, JDW (who obviously could give you a more enlightened view of this than I myself), and someone else who's name slips my mind (Yohe?), during a flight to Japan from names in the Gong 1000 book. Like any sort of list or award, it would seem like the main value is the discussion it generates, but Dave never seemed real interested in having any of that, so it really is just a list.

Oh...my...God....... SHOOTNAMES HAVE BEEN UTTERED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MOVES~! He's a giant freak attraction. You want moonsaults from him? He's a giant freak attraction. You want him to be a pinball bumper? He's a giant freak attraction who is freakish in a way that results in major slurring of speech AND he's a non-native English speaker AND they gave him a manager to do his talking for him. When he first showed up and was cutting promos in incomprehensible English, that was dumb. I'm not really sure what more you want him to do now. Does he have to speak English, even if he has an English speaking manager cutting promos for him? Does anarchistxx have two accounts on this board? I said I wanted something BESIDES vague generalizations. That's a trick question. I never said he was good.

Well, keep in mind who's Hall it is. Really, at this point, it kinda feels like it'd be easier to just scrap the WON Hall and start from scratch than try to weigh the worth of various candidates against dudes like Ultimo, Angle, and Heyman. It just doesn't seem to mean anything anymore.

Can you explain why you don't like them with something other than vague generalizations? Except for the stuff you listed above? And wrestling isn't a drug. There's nothing it's doing to you physically to keep you hooked. You can just watch something else that isn't wrestling. Or read a book. Or play video games. Or go outside. Or sit there and be bored for five seconds. What's the point of sitting through two hours of crap to get to the one bit you like? There's a whole wide world out there. Besides, you have the internet. It's not like anything good that happens isn't going to be put up on YouTube or Dailymotion or some message board where dudes Rapidshare stuff for your convenience. You've already shown the ability to change the channel during a wrestling show under certain circumstances. What's your excuse for the rest?

Well, yes. I'm just wondering how one would go about justifying the notion that Ultimo should be in but Sasuke shouldn't. The sheer amount of logical hoop-jumping required should make it impossible.

If I may use this to jump off to a non-Ventura point.... If Ultimo Dragon qualifies as a HOFer, is there any reason for Sasuke not to be in? Outside of the trainer stuff, Sasuke seems to have all the same qualifications Ultimo has, only better. Does unleashing a horde of hairless young men(?) really put Ultimo that much farther ahead?

I'm glad we have other people in the biz who can form opinions on wrestlers for us so that we don't have to think ourselves.

Personally, I don't get the hate for these guys. They won't make you forget Kawada and Taue, but they will awkwardly stiff a guy something fierce. The gimmick is ridiculous, but that's wrestling. Vastly overstating? I don't anyone is saying he's anything more than competent. Bad timing? Clumsy? He definitely isn't a natural athlete (despite being black ), his movement in the ring is really awkward. I guess you could call that clumsy, but not on a level I'd hold against him that strongly, especially since moving around awkwardly is a big part of his gimmick. Not sure about the bad timing. You might want to point to some examples of that. Nothing stands out in my mind. So? Khali is a 7'2", 420 lbs., gigantism victim. You expect him to be fast? You want the giant freak attraction to work quick rope running spots? One wonders what exactly you're looking for in these people. What Bix said, although it was really a Giant Silva carryjob as I recall. Not sure what more you wanted/expected from those two. Really, what are you looking for from Boogeyman and Khali? Because I get the sense you're judging them based on the wrestlers you want them to be instead of the wrestlers they actually are supposed to be.

There was a great argument for Khali before John Cena showed him he could be an immobile slug and still have great matches. It would be a stretch to call him great, and it might even be pushing it to call him good, but he is trying within his limitations, he does seem to know how to work a fun giant match now, and I've dug his matches more often than not the last few months. He's not gonna be carrying any broomsticks, but he will hold up his end of the bargain at this point.

What I wrote over on Segunda Caida about that.... His matches with Booker were fine. The matches with Finlay were spectacular, though not strictly in a "good workrate" way. He's not that good, but he's competent in the ring. I am kinda disappointed that he took the worms and the clocks and just sort of settled into a routine with those. I liked it better earlier in the character's run when he was doing this weird random shit, and all his segments were these zany, unpredictable, absurdist comedy routines, but wrestling likes familiarity, so that's just how it is. In terms of his matches, I'm not really sure what you're expecting out of the guy. He comes in, acts goofy, destroys a dude, tosses some worms on him, and leaves without eating up any more than five minutes of your time. He's not a great squash match wrestler. He's better than Snitsky at squashing dudes, but not as good as Umaga, Lashley, Khali, Palumbo, Henry, or Big Daddy V. But I don't think he's bad at it. I can see where one would find the worms icky.