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Everything posted by ohtani's jacket
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The recently surfaced (near) full-length Devil vs. Jaguar from '83 is a missing piece of the puzzle that we didn't have before. It's an interesting match as it gives us a glimpse into the peak of the period between Jaguar vs. Jackie and Jaguar's big matches from '85 and also adds the wrinkle of Devil Masami as the willful challenger. I thought it lent weight to the argument that the reason that Jaguar wasn't as big a star as Jackie or Chigusa was that because everything that was cool about her was also scary and imitating for the fans. She was perhaps a little too kakkoii even in comparison to the highly emotive Masami. It's an excellent match worked in the slower, more traditional title match style. Both women work hard. As far as the finish is concerned, I think anyone who believes AJW decided title matches under shoot-pin rules is out to lunch. Obviously, I can't prove that, but it doesn't stand to reason. It's possible that the Matsunagas screwed with the wrestlers somehow as they liked getting in their heads, especially when they were feuding with each other, and it's also possible that they instructed the ref to do something screwy. I would not put it past the Matsunagas to have told Devil she was going to win the belt and then screw her over. It is possible that her emotions at the end are real, but I also think you have to understand the mentality of Japanese fans, who are not interested in breaking kayfabe or learning about the inside workings of the business and would gladly believe that shoot pins were a thing and that Inoki's victories over martial artists were legit. I do believe the likes of Debbie Malenko who said sometimes they would go into a bout without knowing the winner and then the time keeper or someone would signal the winner during the finishing stretch. I just don't believe that outside of rookie matches they were deciding their champion passed on a shoot pin. I also think that if that was a shoot pin, it wasn't a very convincing one. I don't watch a ton of amateur wrestling outside of the Olympics, but they sure as heck put up more of a struggle than they did here. So, in my mind, it's a work, but what folks should really be concentrating on is peak 1983 Jaguar. I could easily convince myself that she was top 10 all-time if weighting things towards the things in wrestling that I like.
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[2006-04-13-TNA-Impact] Christopher Daniels vs Samoa Joe
ohtani's jacket replied to Superstar Sleeze's topic in April 2006
Man, Joe just fucked Daniels up in this match. I actually thought Daniels would win with the Best Moonsault Ever and bit on the nearfall before Joe killed him again with the Super Island Driver. I have this romantic notion in my head that Kobashi passed the mantle of Best Worker in the World to Joe after their ROH match, but what about Daniels? it baffles me that no one really talks about him anymore. -
This was one of those interesting matchups the indies sometimes throw at you as Lance Storm came out of retirement to challenge Danielson for the ROH World title, As much as we enjoyed poking fun at Storm for his response to the DVDVR 500, he was in truth a pretty good worker. He was very much a product of the 90s. He reminded me of a cross between Chris Benoit and Dan Kroffat in this match, and was technically very sound, but the bout also reminded me of his limitations, as he simply didn't have the ability to make you care about his title shot. His selling made sense from a wrestling perspective, but it didn't have the intensity that draws you a great wrestling match. Danielson was his rangy self, but I don't get the hype over his heel champ act. Here's a mildly controversial take that very few people will read, but Triple H was a better heel champ than Danielson. Danielson was, of course, the far better wrestler, and I doubt Triple H could have crafted a bout this good with Lance Storm, but Triple H would have pissed the fans off a lot more.
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This was pretty good, but like most of the matches on this show it was too short. You don't expect a world title match to clock in under ten minutes. I thought the beats were good, so whoever laid it out did a good ob. My only gripe would be that an arm drag to the outside shouldn't have been enough to prevent Angle from interfering with the finish to the match. Rey (or Orton) should have taken him out with something more devastating. Rey winning the title by pinning the co-challenger wasn't as impactful as Benoit making Triple H tap, and I hated that they used Eddie's death to fuel the storyline, but if they didn't have the stones to run Rey vs. Angle as a singles match then at least they delivered a decent bout.
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Taue was a decent athlete. He could have made it to the makuuchi division if not for his feud with his stable master, which, reportedly, was largely fueled by Taue's distain for training. He was a big guy and physically strong. However, I'm not referring to natural talent. I'm talking about overall talent, including the type of talent that can be developed through studying and training. Misawa, Kawada, and especially Kobashi, didn't walk into the dojo on day one as the finished product. They worked their butts off (some would say to their detriment.) Taue wasn't like that. He was like an NBA player that coasts during the regular season then explodes in the playoffs. They used to call him Tagami Volcano because of the way he'd fire up for big matches. Taue was charismatic and lovable. It was easy to sympathize with him. However, there are clear reasons why he was never the ace of All Japan despite having the height and size that Baba valued. If Taue had possessed the right work ethic there is a reasonable chance that Baba would have pushed him as the next Jumbo and Misawa would have never gotten the push that he did (or at best would have been a perpetual challenger to the champion, Taue.) Personally, I like the version of Taue that we got more than that idealized version, and I'm quite happy with the way things played out, but I think that's the reality of the situation.
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Taue is awesome, but it's this constant cycle of people falling head over heels in love with him then overrating the crap out of him. I know this because I did the same thing back in the day. Taue is fun to root for, but there's no way that he was as talented as the other three. You may like him more than the other guys, but let's not get carried away. He was a decent athlete with a lousy work ethic who appeals to fans because of his everyman qualities. He produced good work within the All Japan system, but the dude was along for the ride. He was not the driving force of that style. People can vote for him super high if they want, but as far as I'm concerned a good comp for Akira Taue would be Akira Maeda. A personal favorite of mine, but can I really make an argument that he's better than Fujiwara or Tamura? Probably not, but it's an argument that doesn't have to be made. If I'm picking Maeda over those guys it's because of intangibles.
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Damn. RIP Terry, and thank you.
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This is what we said all along. It was kind of obvious but at least we have proof. In retrospect, I wonder what the last year was that Catch really mattered.
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Invaluable research. Thanks for all of your effort, Phil. Is there a way to make sure it doesn't get lost in case the Wrestling Classics board blows up?
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lol at Triple H's King Conan entrance. It was better than Cena's entrance. The crowd was electric for this and the split crowd made for quite the spectacle. Even JR admitting that he couldn't relate to Cena gave the match a different feel from the typical JR commentary. He leaned into the blue collar aspect of Cena's gimmick vs. Triple H being born with a silver spoon in his mouth, even though the latter hadn't been part of Triple H's gimmick for a while, and of course there were the obligatory football mentions, but it was straight hearing JR call a match where he wasn't slobbering over the babyface. The match was well laid out. In fact, I thought it was the best Cena match in quite some time given how disappointing the Angle/Michaels feud was. Credit should go to Triple H for not sabotaging the match, I suppose. He brought his A game. I liked that they kept it simple and didn't try to do too much. The crowd was stunned when Triple H tapped. It's hilarious to me that after Triple H's reign of terror, the crowd hated Cena so much that they welcomed a Triple H title win. That's some serious backlash. It was cool that they leaned into it instead of ignoring it, even though Cena must have felt a little hurt.
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This was a fun, high energy 6-man that set the tone for the buildup to WrestleMania. I was particularly impressed with the exchanges between FInlay and Mysterio and Benoit and JBL. In fact, if Benoit and JBL had worked a proper feud with as many PPV matches as Eddie and JBL had, I have no doubt that they would have produced a great match. I'm a big JBL guy, but I thought they had outstanding chemistry here and it's a matchup that excites me. Finlay and Rey also had potential to have a great match. It's a shame that they weren't given the freedom to do so.
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[2006-03-05-NOAH-Navigate For Evolution] Kenta Kobashi vs KENTA
ohtani's jacket replied to Loss's topic in March 2006
This was quite minimalistic. Probably a feather in KENTA's cap that he could so credible inflicting damage on a heavyweight. Kobashi looked like he was running on fumes, but even broken down Kobashi is a compelling watch. -
This was a decent enough match. Shane took some crazy bumps like a back suplex off the top of the ladder, over the ropes and threw a table, and Vince and Shawn hamming it up worked for the most part. The finish was an eye-rolling callback to Montreal, and I don't see who in their right mind wanted to see Shawn feud with Vince, but Shane always tries to pull his weight in the ring. JR kept calling Vince Satan. Probably not that far from the truth.
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These two wrestled a million times but this one had extra spice as it was on the go home show before WrestleMania. I liked that they let them wrestle a clean match and had Orton make an appearance after the match was decided. I also liked the fact that they made the champ Angle look strong without resorting to cheating. Rey got a close nearfall without a ref bump and Angle showed how good he was on the counter. They could have easily done a BS finish where Orton interfered, but instead they chose to put over the champ.
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[2006-03-24-WWE-Smackdown] Rey Mysterio vs Fit Finlay
ohtani's jacket replied to Loss's topic in March 2006
Decent little match. Could have been a great match if they'd been given more time. I'm looking forward to revisiting Finlay's WWE run. -
Thanks, Phil. I was vaguely aware of this story thanks to old French TV guide articles but was unsure about the full details.
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Terrible news.
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The Beginner's Guide To British Wrestling
ohtani's jacket replied to ohtani's jacket's topic in Megathread archive
Ha, I belong to the Commonwealth so technically I can say whatever I want. -
Excellent bio. Japanese wiki says he had been in rough shape for a while. He had surgery for prostate cancer in 2017 and suffered from a heart attack in 2018. Ayako revealed in November of last year that he was in hospital in critical condition with breathing and feeding tubes inserted. Apparently, he made a recovery and was able to leave hospital last month before succumbing to whatever illness it was.
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The Beginner's Guide To British Wrestling
ohtani's jacket replied to ohtani's jacket's topic in Megathread archive
That's a nice idea, but there were very few instances of this actually happening. Especially televised rematches. Let people decide for themselves, I say. -
The Beginner's Guide To British Wrestling
ohtani's jacket replied to ohtani's jacket's topic in Megathread archive
You tell me why they booked that finish then. Do you think it's the perfect finish to the bout? Would you have booked it differently? You can have a test match that ends in a draw and folks still remember a sparkling century or an incredible bowling performance, so I don't think anyone would outright dismiss a Marty Jones vs. Caswell Martin match (and they shouldn't since those were two of the finest workers in the business at that time), but I cannot imagine anyone thinking "boy, I'm glad they booked the finish that way." -
The Beginner's Guide To British Wrestling
ohtani's jacket replied to ohtani's jacket's topic in Megathread archive
There is no group think on this topic. It's not American fans watching British wrestling matches. Its wrestling fans watching wrestling matches and discussing them. If people have differing opinions on the merits of certain tropes then open it up for debate. Honestly, "you're not British so you can't understand why this finish is good" will turn people off from watching the matches. For years, people watched Japanese and Mexican wrestling without understanding the language, the culture or the people, liked the matches for different reason than the Japanese and Mexican fans did, and dismissed things that the audiences likely enjoyed, but you cannot control that type of thing once the match is out there. It's the equivalent of an artist who is upset because their work is being misinterpreted. -
The Beginner's Guide To British Wrestling
ohtani's jacket replied to ohtani's jacket's topic in Megathread archive
That finish is disappointing, but you accept it and move on. Marty comes across as a classy competitor and the match is basically a draw. It's not the worst finish in the world, but it's hardly what you'd call a good finish. It's a creative way to ensure that never man loses face. To some fans, it probably took on more of a sporting context, but folks are here have seen far more wrestling than most and can see the strings being pulled.