ohtani's jacket

Gran Cochise vs. Satanico may be my all-time favourite lucha match. Either that or Blue Panther vs. Atlantis from '91. Let me dig up my review of it. I wrote this back in 2008 and might a different view point on these days.

#334 Jumbo vs. Kawada feels like a match-up I should enjoy more as some kind of gritty alternative to Jumbo/Misawa. I do like a lot of their exchanges in tag matches and six man tags where Kawada is doing his best impersonation of a lumberjack trying to chop down a redwood, but their singles matches have never clicked for me. I watched this twice and couldn't find the hook. Jumbo slapping Kawada was great, but he wrestled within himself for the rest of the bout. I was going to write something about how he looked like he was already past his best here in his grumpy old man phase, but that could just be me writing my own narrative for the bout. In many respects, this reminded me of Kawada's work with Hansen in '92. I also found that to be slightly lacking, and if I were to put my finger on it, I'd probably say there's a gulf between how good Kawada was in '91 and '92 compared to his peak years of '94 and '95. Misawa and Kobashi too. People used to talk about how much Taue improved in those years, but I think it's true of all four of them. I tried to view this as something smaller and look for a hook -- maybe some great matwork, some awesome strike exchanges, or a bear with a sore head performance from Jumbo -- but it felt more like Jumbo being pushed a bit in a bout he was expected to win and there was nothing about it that really seemed like a breakthrough for Kawada. It's probably unfair to call it a competitive squash but it sure was fashioned that way.

I believe so. I've seen a few thousand WoS bouts so I'm a bit foggy on the details, but they would occasionally have a surprise victory late in the final round when a draw seemed inevitable. Perhaps the reason you see so many falls happen early in the round is to shorten the length of the bout. The standard length of a TV (at least in the 70s) was four rounds. I saw so many of those that I ended up calling them "four rounders." My guess is that they were shaving time, though most of the bouts were joined in progress on the actual WoS broadcast and picked up where the scoring began. Later on, when wrestling was a standalone show, they would edit out entire rounds. You' skip from the 2nd round to the 5th and then you'd have a pinfall or a submission without seeing what happened in the 3rd or 4th round. That always bugs me.

For a moment I almost felt like I was back on the old DVDVR green board. Did you ever seen Yoshida vs. Megumi Fujii? That was a beautiful bout.

Your point about Mascaras is pure conjecture and not borne out by the fact that many luchadores worked Japan at the same time that Mil did, which was a big payday if you were a luchador. Lucha kept being promoted in California long after LaBelle folded by both Mexican and American promoters. Southern territories had Mexican workers and luchadores. I'm pretty sure the Houston footage folks have been watching has matches from Gran Markus and El Halcon. Japanese promotions may have had strong ties to the NWA, but can you name any particularly special appearance by a Japanese worker in the States post Rikidozan? Arguably, the most famous event involving a Japanese wrestler from an American point of view was Inoki vs. Ali and that was at Budokan. Most of the Japanese heels post-WW II were Hawaiian born Japanese, so if you're going to discount Jose Lothario or the Guerreros as luchadores then I don't see how Mr. Mojo or the Great Togo can be considered a Japanese wrestler. You're also ignoring the fact that when the internet first began it coincided with Mysterio Jr. and other AAA luchadores being booked in ECW and then being part of WCW, which reached millions of more viewers than Mike LaBelle's promotion ever did. And cruiserweights were popular even if strictly speaking it was a hybrid style. Japanese wrestling had similar exposure through Muta and Liger, but I don't think it had as large a presence as you're making out. The fact that American wrestlers toured Japan far more than they toured Mexico is what made Japan seem important, and as I said before that boils down to the strength of the peso vs. the strength of the yen. Mexico did draw American talent during UWA's peak years, but by the mid-to-late 80s that had dried up and even during the TV boom and AAA's hot run, there wasn't much foreign talent working in Mexico and definitely no headliners.

WWE is available on cable and satellite TV in Japan. It's covered in the magazines and you can find just as many WWE DVDs at the major DVD rental chains as you can domestic releases. And, of course, the WWE run houseshows. That in itself is not so different from most countries with the WWE being a global company available on cable and satellite in a large number of markets. Pay TV penetration is extremely low in Japan, but the WWE must do well enough to tour on a consistent basis. I used to know a guy who did freelance work changing the English used on WWE shows to something more easily translatable. The speciality stores obviously have a lot more memorabilia and so forth. I've met Japanese fans of WWE before. I used to know a guy who was a big Triple H fan and another guy who was a huge wrestling and MMA fan who was pretty clued up about US wrestling and loved the Attitude era stuff. One comment I would to make is that there is nothing art house about mainstream lucha libre. Art house lucha, if there is such a thing, is the indie promotions and the YouTube handheld videos shot with someone's phone. The match Grimmas keeps mentioning as a MOTYC candidate is comparable to an art house film but a CMLL match shouldn't be.

I watched 30 seconds in the middle of this match and gave up. Unbelievably terrible. Matches worked slower than a training demonstration? I'll pass. I don't think anybody should watch maestro matches for the execution. You watch maestro matches because it's long time pros working the same sort of style you might have seen in Monterrey in 1992. You shouldn't expect their timing to be as good as it was 25 years ago. It's the thought behind what they're doing that counts. But if you're not enamored with the old style of lucha libre, and you're not dissatisfied with the modern style, then there's no real reason to watch what old men are doing on the independent circuit. It was kind of a poor sampling from W2BTD, though. Lucero is a fabulous worker and Terry is a legend, but not even Terry fans were pimping that much so strongly.

I disagree that you can't judge a style by its high end matches. The majority of all wrestling is average at best, so why would you judge styles on what was the least average? High end matches represent the best a style can be. When I think of lucha I think of the high end matches. I don't think of the average stuff. Maybe I'm out of touch, but I always thought us fans were on the look out for great matches. I can't imagine waking up one day and thinking, "boy I sure feel like watching an average All Japan match," or watching said match and thinking "man, that was good. Another average All Japan match." It's not like we're talking about matches that are outliers and make a worker seem like they were great when really they weren't. We're talking about the best matches from an entire style and what the style is fully capable of. The problem here is that people can't stop comparing lucha to what they think is good/great. They're imposing a standard on it instead of appreciating when it's done well. Not only that but there hasn't been any real consensus about what lucha is from the people who say it's not for them. It's not clear whether they mean the kind of comedy tropes that were adopted by the Michinoku pro guys ,the Memphis style brawling, the trios matches, the dive trains, or the tricked out matwork. It seems people are talking past each other when it comes to what they actual mean by "lucha." If we could all agree what lucha is considered particularly bad then that would be a starting point for guiding folks toward lucha that is considerably better and perhaps closer to their tastes.

I like this. The conversation appears to be spinning its wheels here. I am sure this is available somewhere here, but can I ask where you have a few matches that I am pretty sure you have seen and reviewed? Chicana vs MS-1 - 9/23/1983 Satanico vs Cochise - 9/14/1984 Santo vs Espanto Jr - 8/31/1986 Dandy vs Azteca - 6/1/1990 Dandy vs Satanico - 12/14/1990 Santo vs Casas vs Dandy - 12/6/1996 Atlantis vs Vilano III - 3/17/2000 Trauma I vs Lupus - 9/4/1016 Not to pry for full reviews of them all, but I am curious as to where you have them. Those are all matches I have at *****. They aren't the only lucha matches I have there, but they are matches I think are fantastic and are sure fire classics. I just went and had a look through all my lucha ratings (reviews mainly in 80s catch-up or microscope threads). Picked out notables:MS-1 vs. Sangre Chicana (9/23/83) ***** Atlantis y El Hijo del Santo vs. Fuerza Guerrera y Lobo Rubio (11/25/83) ****4/3 Atlantis vs. El Satanico (1984) **** Mocho Cota vs. Americo Rocca (1/27/84) ****4/3 Mocho Cota vs. Americo Rocca (2/3/84) **** Atlantis y Lizmark vs. El Egipcio y El Faraon (2/17/84) **** El Faraon, Herodes y Mocho Cota vs. Lizmark, Ringo Mendoza y Tony Salazar (2/24/84) ****4/3 El Dandy vs. Angel Azteca (6/1/90) **1/2 El Dandy vs. Satanico (12/14/90) **** El Dandy vs. Negro Casas (7/3/92) ***** Negro Casas vs. La Fiera (1/10/93) **** Negro Casas vs. Mocho Cota (9/23/94) ****3/4 How can you say a style mostly sucks and give that many four star ratings? It doesn't make any sense. I can tell you Backlund era WWF mostly sucks too but could also provide a list of four+ star matches from the stuff I've seen. Why doesn't 70s/early 80s WWF get more attention? It's the same answer. A style can't be judged only by its best stuff, you have to look at the average and not very good stuff too. Average JCP or average AJPW feel better to me than average AWA, average WWF, or average lucha. I lack the knowledge to be able to differentiate between CMLL and AAA. I can distinguish between technical matches (title), brawls (hair / mask), trios, and tags. I don't like the mat-work style, dive trains, or the 2/3 fall structure in the brawls, all these are reasons why I watch Lucha less than other styles. WWWF did get some attention around the time that the DVDVR crew released their first WWF set and jdw began working on his 100 nights of WWF project. Longtime posters will remember the Backlund revival that originated as a result of ToA challenging the accepted wisdom on Backlund and how that led to a Backlund boom of sorts. Then came the call for a revised DVDVR set, the Smarkschoice best of the WWF poll, and so forth. I don't think anyone cared whether that era sucked or not. They just wanted to see the great matches. As far as I'm aware, you've only written about the lucha you've seen on the DVDVR set or the yearbooks. Perhaps a few more matches you sought out on YouTube. All of those matches, whether they were chosen for the DVDVR sets or the yearbooks, were seen to be "above average" by the people who suggested them. That makes me wonder when exactly you've seen the "average lucha match." No doubt about it, most lucha is distinctly average and some of it down right bad, but how would you know if you're basing your opinion on selected trios matches that are actually better than the standard fare? Average JCP and average AJPW may be better than the average match from other styles, but who cares? Are there people who set out to watch as many average matches as they can? The fact that you agree that the best of the 80s matches are fairly good should be an end to any discussion about whether lucha sucks. You say you don't like title matches but you rated some of them highly. You say you don't like the three fall structure in brawls, but you agree that most of the top ranked brawls are good. I have no idea why you don't think there could be other lucha matches out there that are in line with the matches you enjoyed. How many four star matches does a star need to have before it stops sucking?

Mile Zrno vs. Ashura Hara (5/6/79) Mile looks so young here. Hara is wearing a ridiculous get-up that makes him look like a Joshi pro-wrestler with a moustache. This is a beautiful wrestling match. Absolutely beautiful. They work this hybrid style that takes parts of the European style and blends them with strong style elements. It's a juniors match that's wrestled almost entirely on the mat and has no real "flying" to speak of, and it's just perfect. Very similar to the Fujinami vs. Ryuma Go series but with more groundwork. It's a toss-up as to which I like better, but please, somebody tell me Fujnami vs. Zrno is a match that happened. Zrno was sublime in this. I'm not somebody who goes around making a big deal about arm work, but Zrno made arm work seem fresh again with the angles he was able to work. The hits keep coming with these uploads. If he keeps this up there's no way he's not slipping into my top 5 Euro guys of all-time, and who knew Hara could wrestle this well? He's some immobile in his WAR days that you almost owe it to yourself to watch him when he could move. His haircut makes him look like Jackie Sato, and he wears this weird feather headset at the end made out of aluminium of something. Hell, he even has a cheer group ala Jackie. But when he gets down to grappling, he uses his strength well and has some nice counters to Zrno's holds. A few neat takedowns too and a bit of rugby technique to his shoulder blocks. Just a great match. I'm really excited to have seen it and it's the kind of match that I know will be rewarding on a re-watch as well. Jetlag rules and Zrno rules.

#327 Bless Michinoku Pro for being something fun and different in Japanese pro-wrestling. This was mostly a bunch of spots they had learnt from watching the Mexican guys in Hamada's promotion, but like the best trios matches there were plenty of fun exchanges and always something going on. .

I like this. The conversation appears to be spinning its wheels here. I am sure this is available somewhere here, but can I ask where you have a few matches that I am pretty sure you have seen and reviewed? Chicana vs MS-1 - 9/23/1983 Satanico vs Cochise - 9/14/1984 Santo vs Espanto Jr - 8/31/1986 Dandy vs Azteca - 6/1/1990 Dandy vs Satanico - 12/14/1990 Santo vs Casas vs Dandy - 12/6/1996 Atlantis vs Vilano III - 3/17/2000 Trauma I vs Lupus - 9/4/1016 Not to pry for full reviews of them all, but I am curious as to where you have them. Those are all matches I have at *****. They aren't the only lucha matches I have there, but they are matches I think are fantastic and are sure fire classics. I just went and had a look through all my lucha ratings (reviews mainly in 80s catch-up or microscope threads). Picked out notables: MS-1 vs. Sangre Chicana (9/23/83) ***** Atlantis y El Hijo del Santo vs. Fuerza Guerrera y Lobo Rubio (11/25/83) ****4/3 Atlantis vs. El Satanico (1984) **** Mocho Cota vs. Americo Rocca (1/27/84) ****4/3 Mocho Cota vs. Americo Rocca (2/3/84) **** Atlantis y Lizmark vs. El Egipcio y El Faraon (2/17/84) **** El Faraon, Herodes y Mocho Cota vs. Lizmark, Ringo Mendoza y Tony Salazar (2/24/84) ****4/3 El Dandy vs. Angel Azteca (6/1/90) **1/2 El Dandy vs. Satanico (12/14/90) **** El Dandy vs. Negro Casas (7/3/92) ***** Negro Casas vs. La Fiera (1/10/93) **** Negro Casas vs. Mocho Cota (9/23/94) ****3/4 How can you say a style mostly sucks and give that many four star ratings? It doesn't make any sense.

#342 This was a bit of a slow burner until Williams hit a pair of backdrop drivers on Misawa and Kobashi and the match kicked into another gear. Nothing they did really blew me away. It was more "predictably great" than anything else. Sometimes with these All Japan matches it's clear that they're being laid out to be great instead of getting there of their own accord. That may have been more pronounced with Ace involved, but it pretty much looked like everyone was sticking to the script. Misawa's selling was excellent as usual. He really was a beautiful seller around this time. Even when he was being rocked by big moves, you knew he was capable of a comeback that only the Man and company ace can deliver. This wasn't his most memorable comeback ever, but it was a solid tag and everyone worked hard to do their bit.

There have been more Mexican workers wrestle in the US than Japanese. The difference is the lack of cross-cultural exchange with fewer Americans working in Mexico compared to Japan, but that boils down to the strength of the peso vs. the strength of the yen.

But if racism is involved then surely the overall narrative would be that they're both inferior to homegrown American product. Why would the coverage be less bigoted toward Japan than Mexico? That doesn't make much sense to me considering the threat that Japan was to American industry at the height of its post-war recovery. Are you saying people are less bigoted toward Asians than Mexicans? That's a legitimate question, btw. I come from a country with a large Asian population but no Mexican or Latino community to speak of. Japan being seen as "cool" and Mexico as "nothing" may play a part in how the different wrestling cultures are perceived but I think we should leave racism out of the debate until there's actual coverage that displays a bigoted attitude toward Mexican wrestling. Besides, as Jerome pointed out, lucha's imagery is considered cool in many circles, not just in Parisian cafes but in Japan too. In fact, the lucha mask is more well known around the world and more instantly recognisble than anything to come out of Japan wrestling-wise. Japanese wrestling's popularity among American fans rode a wave of Japanese cultural exports that began with cars, televsions and stereo walkmans and crossed over into comics and movies and toys and Saturday morning cartoons. That constant exposure to Japanese cultural exports shaped an image of Japan as a place where all this cool shit comes from. And to be honest, it became right after the war during the American occupation where GIs would take back traditional Japanese gifts to their families and spread the exoticism of geishas and Japanese tea-houses and what have you. But to me, that's political, historical and socio-economic. It's possibly an example of oriental exoticism, but the fact of the matter is that Japanese culture had champions like Donald Ritchie. If not for Donald Ritchie, Japanese cinema would be far less known than it is. Japanese cinema from the studio system days is far more well known and revered than Mexican cinema from the same period. I mean, Japanese wrestling vs. lucha has NOTHING on the lack of recognition that Mexican cinema has received compared to Japanese films. Personally, I've made an effort to watch as much old Mexican cinema as I can find, but if we're being honest, the Japanese studios had more money and the standard of cinematography was higher. And that's the same battle lucha faces with its production values. Personally, I like old grainy lucha footage with poorly lit arenas but many people are turned off by the poor mic'ing as well as the camerawork and editing. They're common complaints that are exasperated by the confusing rules and often chaotic nature of the bouts. Having said that, there is undeniably an element of people wishing they could someday visit Japan to go on their dream wrestling trip. Mexico is seen as more dangerous. Whether there's any truth to that matter or it's just plain bigotry people can decide for themselves, but Japan is definitely seen as safer than Mexico.

Black Gordman and the Great Goliath used to draw heat from the Mexican fans in the Southwest and Southern California by claiming they were from New Mexico instead of Mexico.

Nobody in this thread has demonstrated any sort of bigotry or racism toward Mexico or lucha libre. I don't think it's fair to say that people dislike lucha libre because of any sort of underlying bigotry. The reasons people have given for disliking lucha have been largely stylistic. To be honest, this smacks of a thinly veiled dig at "Japanophiles," a bone of contention that is never far from the surface when it comes to discussing why foreigners are interested in Japanese pro-wrestling. There are all sorts of political, historical and socio-economic reasons why Japanese culture has been exported to a greater extent than Mexican culture. Japan is also famous (some might say infamous) for copying ideas and improving them. It's no surprise then that some people feel the Japanese were able to copy American wrestling and improve and innovate it. What hasn't been addressed so far is that many people get into puroresu after becoming fed up with the American product. For those fans who are not yet ready to give up on wrestling, there seems to be a clear and obvious reason why they gravitate toward Japanese pro-wrestling over lucha, and that reason is not only the fact that Japanese wrestling is more prevalent in online discussion (which it is), but because Japanese wrestling, for the most part, takes itself seriously and puts wrestling first. That appealed to your old-school type who believed the name on the marque says wrestling, and it still appeals today to anyone who's fed up with the modern day product. It's arguably less relevant today given that the WWE delivers a far superior in-ring product to any point in its existence and the wrestling boom in Japan burst along with the economic bubble. Indy wrestling seems to be doing well in the US these days as well. But traditionally Japanese wrestling was the clear alternative and it's pretty obvious why it would appeal more than the heavily stylised lucha. If you had shown 20 year old me Kawada vs. Misawa or When Worlds Collide, I would have preferred Kawada vs. Misawa to anything on the When Worlds Collide show. And that really was the point of comparison back in the day -- All Japan heavies vs. hot period AAA -- partially due to the coverage in the Observer but also because of the familiarity that people had with the WCW luchadores. Look at the DVDVR Best of the 90s list for lucha. It barely has any CMLL at all. CMLL only really became recognized in tape trading circles when the Santo heel turn became hot. It wasn't until the mid-00s that a lot of us went through the back catalogue and discovered all of the stuff that had been overlooked. Lucha is, and always has been, far behind Japanese wrestling when it comes to chronicling the matches that are good. Tape traders began dealing Japanese wrestling in the early 80s. MS-1 vs. Sangre Chicana didn't become a pimped match until 25 years later. That's how far behind the eight ball lucha is. It's also the reason why lucha doesn't get critically evaluated in a proper way, IMO. We're simply not at that stage yet. If you're specifically talking about present day stuff, as in why can't people check out lucha matches that are being pimped as MOTYC contenders when prepping for their end-of-year lists, especially with the accessibility of lucha matches these days; that is a different question. I agree with you that if you're serious about those sort of year-end lists you should take everything into consideration even if it's not a style you particularly enjoy. But it really depends on whether it's something you're doing for yourself or part of some sort of wider forum project.

Ida Mae Martinez vs. Terry Majors was fairly typical heel vs. babyface stuff, but Ida Mae was a plucky babyface and I started to get behind her as the match wore on. Next up was a clip of Argentina Rocca taking on a young Johnny Valentine. Unfortunately, it was mostly a showcase of Rocca's biggest offensive moments in the bout and we didn't get to see much from Valentine. Ricki Starr vs. The Zebra Kid also showcased Starr over his opponent. I've always been interested in Ricki Starr, particularly his run in England in the 60s, but I wonder if the novelty wore off after a while. It would be interesting to know if he had many variations on his standard match structure. The Zebra Kid is even more intriguing. It's impossible to know if he was any good from watching this footage, but like the classic luchadores his mask creates an almost instant folklore. You know what was good? Dick the Bruiser vs. Pepper Gomez. I saw them work a grudge match where their styles fit each other perfectly. It was simple kick/punch stuff but with plenty of intensity. The Original Sheik of Araby vs. The Mighty Jumbo, on the other hand, was the most cartoonish thing I've seen on the channel and proof that promoters have long peddled this sort of wrestling. Rita Martinez vs. Maria Gernaldi was another semi-decent women's match. It's noticeable that all the girls who wrestled out of Hollywood have the same type of haircuts that the starlets had during the 50s. The commentator makes a point to refer to them as "beauties" over and over again as well, creating even more thinly veiled attempts at sex appeal. More Argentina Rocca, this time tagging with Miguel Perez against Jerry and Eddie Graham. Worth watching to see the Graham brothers in action as well as Perez, but the appeal of Rocca is lost on me. You can also see Rocca and Perez in six man action against the Graham brothers with Haystack Calhoun and the Original Sheik of Araby joining the fray. Again, pretty legendary workers but only a few minutes of clips. "Dropkick" Murphy & Nick Lutze vs. LaVerne Baxter & Hardboiled Haggerty is this kind of primitive form of tag wrestling where there are no tags and all four men are in the ring at the same time like a tag team version of a Fatal Four-way. It's a good thing this form of tag wrestling didn't take off as it looks like an ugly battle royal for the most part. There are some neat and inventive spots and Murphy is a bundle of energy, but it's ultimately a bit too weird. Kind of like watching wrestling without corner posts and ropes or in a circle instead of a square. Midgets! Sky Low Low & Billy the Kid vs. Brown Panther & Red Feather. The minis were obviously there to be laughed at and provide the same kind of entertainment as clowns in the circus so I'm not exactly hoping for a minis classico or anything. The heels' gimmicks were a bit racist too, making this an inauspicious start to the minis footage. Lastly, Gene Kiniski vs. The Mighty Ursus. I don't get the appeal of Kiniski at all. Yeah, he's a big strong guy who dishes shit out, but I don't see why he was seen as a champion calibre wrestler. Ursus was a Mexican strongman and so this had a lot of strength holds, and Kiniski powering his way out of holds, but it was nothing special. I kind of wanted to see Kiniski to manhandle Ursus a bit and show me he was a badass, but he's not been the type of guy to ratchet up the intensity thus far.

If you've been a lucha fan for any length of time then you're used to the fact that it's not popular. There were plenty of people who posted in this thread that they've never been able to get into lucha that weren't accused or trolling or attacked personally. Grimmas posed the question of why Japanese wrestling is more popular than lucha and people spelled out the reasons why Japanese wrestling has traditionally been more popular. It was you that decided it was simply a matter of personal taste while at the same time suggesting the fact that so many people dislike lucha that your criticisms of it are validated. The entire thing boils down to the fact that you think you're right about lucha and other people are wrong. It seems to irk you that people like a form of wrestling that doesn't adhere to your personal need for suplexes and snugness, or that people read your takes on lucha and think you misunderstand it. The only time you really praise it is when they do some armwork that looks like Steamboat vs. Bob Orton Jr. or when it's structured in a way that you can identify as heat & shine segments. People don't have a problem with other people disliking lucha. They have a problem with criticisms that are unfair. Honestly speaking, at this point lucha is like prog rock to you, or metal or jazz. Or music in a foreign language. At some point it's better to let it go than argue that free jazz is shit or prog rock is wankery. That has nothing to do with lucha fans having thin skin. According to this thread, lucha fans are arrogant hipsters. Arrogant hipsters have rather robust skin, I would think. At least they probably think so.

#341 I agree with everyone who said this was disjointed and lacked focus. I found it a bit tedious, to be honest, since I'm already familiar with Toyota and Kong and felt that they weren't really clicking. As silverwidow mentioned, their June match was always considered superior to this. A lot of Toyota's work from ''94-96 leaves me cold, though. She's the only worker I can think of where I prefer their early and post prime work to their actual peak. Another thing I can't stop ignoring is how short Aja is. Once you see it, you can never unsee it. She starts looking smaller and smaller to the extent that in a match like this she doesn't look like a monster at all. It's fine when she works big, but she didn't really work big here and since Toyota was clearly taller it bugged me a bit. Can't say I really enjoyed this one.

#337 This was pretty good! Loss was right about it being smarty worked. Some nice selling from both guys, and I thought the way they used the tables and chairs was really effective. Nothing screams 90s wrestling more than tables and chairs, but the spots came naturally here with both men looking to up the ante to literally win a fall anywhere. I wish we could have seen more of the action on the gaming floor, but that was the only bit where they lost me. Super finish capped off a success trip to Vegas. I was going to say junket, but it looked like they were somewhere off the Vegas strip. I know it's my own fault for watching it, but Sabu's post match shtick has got to be one of the dumber things from the 90s? No? Don't get me wrong, I thought he was excellent in this, but that's a "WTF are doing?" if ever there was one.

#343 This morning I watched a pretty damn good Christmas Day match between the Warriors and the Cavs, and this match was awfully similar -- just two great teams going at it. I wish more promotions would adopt the concept of full-blooded six man rivalries. It adds another layer outside of tag matches and singles bouts and brings a team sports feel to wrestling that's really only possible in multi-man bouts. This wasn't as transcendent as their very best stuff, but it was still really great New Year fare for the Korakuen faithful and would make a great rainy day bout if you're looking for one.

We have a thread 300 posts long about how Japanese wrestling is more popular than lucha; of course people are going to be less upset if you criticise puroresu. It's like criticising classic rock vs. shitting all over jazz or hip-hop.

Grapplelucha is a new one on me. As pol mentioned, Terry is a much brawler than he is a mat worker, but if you're not interested in seeing an old man doing Memphis concession style brawls then I would stay away from Terry's brawls. I'm not sure that force-feeding yourself a style is the right way to get into something. I've mentioned before that if you watch enough of a worker they become tolerable. That might make you immune to the things that annoy you about a style, but the only way to really get into something is for the timing to be right. To give a personal example, I always thought Lou Thesz was kind of boring. That was based on watching a match here and there while my attention was drawn toward other things I was into. I built up an idea about Thesz, and other workers from his era, that that stuff is kind of boring and dismissed it as such. Now, I think Thesz is a great worker and I'm wondering how I can see more of his stuff. The difference is that after the GWE poll I was looking for new avenues. The WoS well had dried up and it was hard for me to get any new vault footage since I no longer have rare footage to trade. Bob ALPRA didn't have any new uploads of French catch, and I'd had my fill of lucha. There was an opening to get into something new and Golden Age stuff felt like uncharted waters. In other words, someday folks will get bored and get into lucha.

#340 This was pretty rubbish. The only redeeming thing about it was Tenryu's bumps. It was kind of surreal watching Hogan fight the Legion of Doom, though. It was almost like the WrestleFest game come to life. Kind of makes you wish Tenryu was a hidden character. Winning the Rumble with Tenryu would rock.