ohtani's jacket

Here's the first of what will probably be a long line of lucha appraisals -- http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/blog/8/entry-425-doubting-el-dandy/

You don't have to like Aja being stoic. It can be a reason for voting other people above her if you value facial expressions and great acting. I find her one dimensional myself, but I think it's a bit presumptuous to say she did something wrong. It's not really the case that Aja has emoting issues, it's that Goodear has issues with her emoting.

She had no problem emoting for the audience she wrestled for. They all knew what her character was and why she was stone faced. You may like expressive, emotive workers with great selling and facial expressions, but that doesn't fly for an ace working from the top in Japan. When she was an up and comer, she would get on the house mic and over emote, but The Woman doesn't do that. The Woman chastises other workers for not being strong enough and so forth. She's meant to be a tough stoic character and managed to portray that well.

No chance. You want him to work like he does in that Michinoku Pro stuff and then you find out he doesn't work like that at all.

Doesn't belong within a hundred miles of this list. Seriously, he's fun and all, but not a top 100 candidate. Both of his brothers were better workers, IMO.

I'd say Atlantis' peak was '88-91. During that peak he was one of the best technico workers I've seen and really one of the classic masked luchadores of the era alongside Lizmark, Solar and El Hijo del Santo. The fact that he was such a good worker on the technico side is a big plus for me because often he's completely holding up that side. I disagree that he was raised to the level of the great rudo workers; I think he was legitimately outstanding during that period, and in fact I would give him more credit for giving Blue Panther great matches than vice versa since Panther wasn't as good a singles match worker as people think. There's a large chunk of his career that I don't care about, which is a problem. I wish he'd shown up in maestros matches more often.

That 12/93 match is only 23:34.

Some girls cut their hair short because they play sports or because they can't be bothered looking after their hair, but in many cases it's decided when the girl is small what hair style they suit based on how cute they are. Attitudes towards appearance are different from what we're used to.

That was Villano IV.

Nothing bugs me more in lucha than the lack of critical appraisal that El Dandy and other all-time greats receive. I can understand there not being as much evaluation of Dandy as workers we all grew up on, but to me it's a sign that he's not taken that seriously. Of course when you watch El Dandy for the first time, as many people did on the 1990 Pro-Wrestling Only Yearbook, you're struck by how good he was -- one of the best in the world that year, and possibly one of the best of all-time -- but you wouldn't base your entire opinion of Ric Flair on his best year and neither should you with Dandy. Don't get me wrong, I love Dandy and have done for close to a decade now, but here on the Great Lucha blog I've always tried to turn a critical eye not only towards workers I dislike but favourites too, and particularly the workers who people seemingly do nothing but praise, the Negro Casas, the Blue Panthers and the El Hijo del Santos. It may come across as negative at times, but that doesn't bother me so long as it's fair. Recently, I've been a bit disappointed in how Dandy's come across in Vintage Negro Casas of the Day particularly in comparison to Casas, so I wanted to take a fresh look at him away from Casas but still in the same era. Here's what I came up with: El Dandy/La Fiera/Apolo Dantes vs. Pierroth Jr./Bestia Salvaje/Mano Negra, CMLL 4/29/94 Bestia's nose was well and truly like W.C. Fields at this point. Mano Negra was still sporting his Dave Finlay look and hammed it up for the camera as George Thorogood blared through Arena Coliseo. There's no way a match with this many good workers should be a lame duck. It was a stock trios; one you've seen a thousand times before where the technicos get the better of the early exchanges, the rudos beat them down as penance, and the technicos make a comeback. But there was a strange disconnect between the workers as though they weren't paying attention to what the other pairs were doing. It didn't help that the match wasn't filmed very well, but talk about another Arena Coliseo stinker. Pierroth kept bickering with Negra, which is a pain in the ass as it distracts from the match and meant that Negra couldn't continue his rich vein of form. The rudos also chose to beat on Fiera, who was caught on camera making no effort to sell whatsoever. It was embarrassing really. These were hard times for CMLL and even good workers like these were struggling for motivation. Dandy had gotten back into shape in '94, suspiciously so it must be said, but didn't add a single bit of spark to this. That's a big difference between Dandy and Casas and even this Dandy and the 1990 version. In 1990, business would pick up every time he was in the ring. It was magic the way he'd dazzle the crowd whenever he stepped between the ropes. Here he had the chance to do something special with Dave "Mano Negra" Finlay and didn't take it. In 1990 he would have been all over that action. El Dandy/Atlantis/Pierroth Jr. vs. La Fiera/El Satanico/Emilio Charles Jr., CMLL 11/13/92 Now this kicked ass. They did a rare pre-match angle where Dandy was being interviewed back stage and was jumped by Fiera and his boys. Fiera was great here wearing a jacket and shades and looking every bit the sleaze thread material that he was. The technicos escaped to ringside, and the camera stayed on the rudos as they did their jackets up for their entrance, which was unintentionally awesome. The rudo beat down to begin this was one of the best rudo beat downs I've seen in a long, long time. The vigour with which Emilio got stuck into his work was brilliant. He was such an unbelievably awesome worker. I still think he's under-appreciated even by hardcore lucha fans. Gregor mentioned recently that Emilio taking the monkey flip from Atlantis and charging into the backbreaker is a routine he wants to see every time and I wholeheartedly agree with that position. Satanico and Pierroth also teared into each other. They still had a lot of heat from the Infernales/Intocables feud, and what you basically had here were three great match-ups where the guys were all feuding with each other. Dandy bled (yeeesss), the technicos made their comeback and Fiera bled (yeeesss), and then his chain got involved. The whole thing was very Memphis and a throwback to the early 80s Arena Mexico shows. This really made me want to see the Fiera/Dandy hair match again even though I recall it being disappointing. El Dandy/Atlantis/Ultimo Dragon vs. Bestia Salvaje/Felino/Mano Negra, CMLL 8/20/93 We get an erotic workout video to start this. It must be apuestas time if they're showing gym workout videos. The Atlantis vs. Mano Negra feud wasn't very good. I'd dearly love it to be, but I just got done popping for the hundredth time as Atlantis and Emilio did their signature spots and didn't pop once here. I don't know how they could have made it any better actually. The limb work they did was boring, but mask ripping and having Atlantis face to canvas covering his identity would have been just as bad. They just didn't have any chemistry. Dandy was in a secondary role here, but still found a way to be unimpressive. One of the great disappointments of 1993 CMLL has to be any time Dandy and Felino square off. Felino was trying too hard to be charismatic in '93 and his humour came across as forced. I can't say I blame him for overacting since his push was new and he was in his brother's shadow, but even today he's a ham actor. He gelled more with Ultimo in this match since they did pure workrate stuff. Bestia might as well have had a table cloth draped over him for as much of a part as he really played in this. It's amazing what an afterthought he became after an excellent 1992. Things were definitely going south for him. It's rare that you see a match like this where something's always happening yet none of it is interesting. Los Infernales vs. El Dandy/Ultimo Dragon/Atlantis, CMLL 09/11/92 This was better than most of the build for the 1992 Satanico/Dandy hair match, probably because the Infernales were involved, but still a case of diminishing returns. Dandy bled, which was a good thing, and the Infernales were lack of a pack of wolves in the opening caida working over the cut. Satanico really grew his hair out for the Anniversary Show, so he definitely looked the part even if he was the wrong wrestler for the match. Wrong match or not, he did an excellent job of working Dandy over here and had a few women in the audience engaged in running arguments with him. Dandy was good, but this was mostly a Satanico special. The other Infernales contributed nice little touches and I loved the way they bumped and sold for the technico comeback, which was build around a pair of dives from Atlantis and Ultimo Dragon. The technicos were excellent as well with snarky little stomps and kicks. I liked the way Atlantis laid the boot in after Pirata had taken his back crawl bump to the outside. Not a very long match and no big comeback from Dandy to show where he was in this match work wise, but like I said it was the best piece of build in a largely forgettable rematch of a rematch of a rematch.

That thread isn't the place to debate it, but my view is that if you want a real fight, go and watch UFC or the Olympics. I prefer my pretend fighting with Irish whips in it. And dropkicks. And suplexes. And "selling" in the manner of a Ricky Steamboat or Terry Funk. I have no problem being wedded to that particular vision of pro wrestling, because that's what made me a fan and that's what I'm a fan of. I'm open to other styles, and other things, but that UWF style is so far from what brought me to the dance that it might as well not be pro wrestling. I am really almost philosophically opposed to it. I don't understand what it's trying to achieve or why. I actually hate it, to be honest, I'd go as far as to call it "anti-wrestling". It's more offensive to me than a George Steele match in which he eats the turnbuckle and spends most of the time outside the ring. And if I want to watch a worked shoot what do I do? You don't half carry on about this stuff. It's possible to like a worked shoot and a MMA fight just as it's possible to like a worked shoot and something carny just as it's possible for a worked shoot to be carny. It's obvious what it's trying to achieve and why. If you legitimately don't know then you're just being flippant.

Ultimo was great in CMLL even in 1993 where I had previously thought he was weak. Casas vs. Ultimo was a real bright spot in a pretty dark era for the company, but he's good in other trios too. I can't think of anybody who was faster between the ropes. I need to get a copy of the Casas/Ultimo singles match from '93 to see whether it transferred through to singles. I also remember him getting good stuff out of Malenko in WCW. Seems like a case of being so overrated he's underrated.

I've watched wrestling almost my entire life and have no attachment to the irish whip. And I hate badly coloured tights. That's some kitsch nonsense, Parv.

The majority of the girls had long hair. Japan is a very image conscious country with a lot of stock put in appearance. To put it bluntly, the pretty girls had long hair and the other types had short hair as would have been the case in every junior high school around the country. They did try to avoid sex scandals and were extremely careful about who they let into the locker rooms after the shows, which is similar to how idols are promoted even today, but the hair thing I don't think was a big deal and you had Mimi Hagiwara right here who was as sexualised a Joshi wrestler as it gets.

Yeah, that's it. Eduardo also uploaded one of the trios that people were high on in the yearbook.

I don't mean to nitpick, but sporty athletic girls almost always cut their hair short in Japan. I don't think it was done to desexualise them.

His work post 1990 is not well documented because he wasn't a worker that people traditionally thought of as great. Your best bet is taking a look at his CMLL run from 1989 to 1996. He has a fun feud with Perro Aguayo in 1992 though it's not on the level of their 80s work. When I was doing the lucha history lessons, it was amazing how big Chicana was in the early 80s. He was everywhere -- Arena Mexico, El Toreo, Monterrey -- feuding with everyone more often than not in rudo vs. rudo feuds. If we had some of that stuff, I think he'd come across as the best lucha act ever, but unfortunately it wasn't taped.

That remedial thread was so different from how you usually watch wrestling (with a strong emphasis on context, etc.) Personally, I think you should watch the Jumbo & Co. vs. Misawa & Co. six mans as they're much more up your alley. The matches getting longer was a natural progression of the same group of workers trying to top what they'd already done. I don't have any use for one hour All Japan matches, but I don't agree with you that a 25 minute tag needed to be a third shorter. Japanese fans love nearfalls. The whole reason the 2.99 culture exists in Japan is because Japanese fans love their nearfalls. They were giving the people what they want, and besides the style was basically about receiving damage (like the life bar in a video game) so there was that whole finish 'em video game vibe.

Define obvious. Anyone who finished in the top 25 last time is how I defined it, and it is waived for them. I assume most candidates are going to be obvious. Looking through the Smarkschoice results, I don't see why we need to provide reviews for the top 100. It's not like we're novices. The majority of us have heard of these wrestlers. It seems silly to provide reviews of Barry Windham or Arn Anderson. I can understand if it's obscure lucha or European workers, but not well known guys. Also, I know he was in the top 25, but are there even three Destroyer reviews on this site since it changed to PWO?

I don't get why you need the three match rule for obvious candidates.

Thanks for taking the time Jimmy. I will start plowing through those.

Someone needs to suggest WWE Rey Mysterio matches to check out. I know I've enjoyed the ones I've seen in the past, but not to the extent that he's top 10 all time. I will keep an open mind about it, but I'd like to do some match watching.

Liger suffers from being a guy who I got bored of a long time ago. I think I'll check out that Kanemoto match you uploaded and see if I can rekindle the spark. There's also his career as Yamada to consider. He was pretty good for a young guy.

Did we ever get to the bottom of why fans turned on him? I can't see it affecting his legacy too much any more than the annoying booking with the heel turn will.

Aja was good at being Aja. She was never a favourite of mine as I much preferred the role Kansai played in JWP or even Devil for that matter, and Bull was a better worker who didn't necessarily have better matches. The one point I would put in Aja's favour is when AJW transitioned into their own version of 6/3/94, 6/9/95 style matches she was very good at structuring those main events. Personally I don't think her opponents got enough credit for how hard they worked from underneath, but Aja played her role well and I can understand why she was popular.