ohtani's jacket

Well, we'll have to leave it at that. I hear what you're saying.

I'm just saying that Dave's a guy who likes joining the dots between wrestling and other types of promoting. I doubt anyone else is as interested in Roller Derby as Dave is, it's just one of his quirks. Most people act like Dave & Co. saying MMA=pro-wrestling is trying to legitimise pro-wrestling in some fashion, but I don't see how Cornette saying MMA is doing a better job of promoting itself than pro-wrestling speaks well of the pro-wrestling business. Unless people think pro-wrestling carnies are taking credit for MMA's success. Carnies know how to sell a fight, or at least they think they do, and the way I read it, Cornette is saying that MMA is doing a better job of selling fights than wrestling is, which is pretty much the case. MMA has eaten in to a share of the WWE's market that it probably wouldn't have done if the WWE had compelling characters like The Rock or Austin. However successful MMA is, and however many buys it's doing, people are watching the shows on name value and it doesn't have a hell of a lot to do with the actual fighting. Not when it comes to the casual fan. I can accept that we're all mammals. If you wanna turn it into a MMA/wrestling analogy, I'd say apes are to humans what MMA is to pro-wrestling. Wasn't the fight supposed to be Evans/Jackson? I'm no expert but Evans wants to position himself as a light heavyweight title contender and didn't think the fight would help him move up the rankings. Plus it was on short notice in England. Mike Brown doesn't like getting boo'ed? Is that supposed to be the antithesis of a pro-wrestling heel or something? I'm sure that a lot of fighters have motives other than money, but they're pro-athletes and pro-athletes care about money. How is that different from the thousands of other martial arts dojos around, many of which are Olympic sanctioned sports? There's a difference between training and working out at a MMA dojo and entering the world of professional MMA. It's never existed in an amateur sense apart from the various disciplines that make up the mixed element of it. Can't see it ever making its way into the Olympics either. My argument isn't that fighters don't take it seriously. Most of them live and breathe it. My argument is that in trying to differentiate it from pro-wrestling people are legitimising it too much. It's still a developing sport.

Still, you can't deny that they're all birds. They're simply different types of birds. What's the one thing that old-timers always harp on about? Money. It's always about money, money, money. The thing most wrestlers are proudest of is the gates they drew and the thing that makes them the most bitter is that they didn't make any money for themselves. Everything else is secondary. Likewise, fighters are in MMA for a payday. I doubt many of them would do it as an amateur sport. Pro-wrestling and MMA is business first, everything else second.

They're all types of promoting, which is why Vince gets delusions of grandeur about branching out into other types of promoting. What Dave and his buddies are saying is that from a business point of view MMA=pro-wrestling, only real. I'm not sure if Dave really believes that MMA and pro-wrestling are the same thing in terms of content, I just think he's big on the business parallels. People who find that annoying tend to not be that interested in MMA and think Dave spends too much time covering it in the WON, but Dave's a guy who finds comparisons between wrestling and Roller Derby. You can see where Dave is coming from on the whole MMA thing, though obviously it's driven by the fact that he's a big MMA fan. It's possible to make connections between Vince and Don King, Vince and P.T. Barnum, etc., yet when people compare wrestling promoting to something else everyone gets a little fidgety as though it's not possible (unless it's porn or something of lower worth.) If you ask me it legitimises MMA too much as a sport. MMA has yet to have much of a global reach outside of the internet and if anything is just as hung up about what it promotes as wrestling. Vince didn't want to promote rasslin' and tried carving out his own niche in the promoting business. MMA has tried moving away from its barbaric image to present itself as a legit sport. Nevertheless, matchmaking (booking) occurs and is carefully controlled. The idea is to draw a gate and sell PPVs. It's the same basic idea. If a result doesn't go according to plan, they try to make money out of whoever wins. Booking plans change at the drop of a hat in wrestling anyway. It's obviously a distinct difference but the method of making money is the same. Well, I think PRIDE came pretty close to having angles at times. They definitely had feuds and promos. On the other hand, rivalries, whether they're real or played up by the company, were around long before pro-wrestling. I don't think the content is the same, I just think they're similar types of promoting. In Japan, I think it was a complete offshoot and they couldn't help do works. In the US, I think it's managed to stand on its own two feet. But until it becomes a recognised sport, I think it's firmly in the same category as wrestling. If WWE were to die and UFC never became a mainstream sport, I think it would essentially be the new pro-wrestling and provide Dave with his livelihood.

Read the full quote and explain why Cornette is wrong: Bill Dundee said running a circus is the same as running a wrestling promotion. Running a MMA outfit is the same as running a wrestling promotion. It's the promoting business pure and simple. Whether Dave takes that too far is up to people here to decide, but way too much is made out of Dave's opinions. It doesn't mean shit whether Meltzer thinks MMA is pro-wrestling. He's argued the point many times and I never saw the problem with his reasoning. It's the people who can't get over point number five that confuse me.

It is the same thing.

Can you ask him about his trips to England?

Máscara Año 2000 vs. Mogur, mask vs. mask, 9/23/88 This is the other match on the Viva Lucha Libre Part II commercial tape. You've got to love the old school CMLL entrances. There's a bunch of kids at ringside to begin with, hoping to get Máscara Año 2000's autograph or something. Moguar has the most nonchalant entrance possible and the kids run back to their seats as the two start hitting each other. I remember Jose being keen to see this because he reckoned Máscara Año 2000 was a good worker in the 80s. It was reasonably okay, but so badly mic'ed that it seemed like they weren't getting any heat. That can't have been the case, because after it was over the arena floor was packed. I don't think I've ever seen such a big crowd at ringside. Nevertheless, whatever heat they got sounded like background noise on tape and that hurt the match because it was one of those slow, blow for blow matches where they work at a moderate tempo. It was a fairly simple match, actually. There wasn't much in the way of brawling or mask ripping, and no real blood that I noticed. No bullshit, either. They tried pacing the third caida like the all-important fall that it is, but the slowish tempo didn't go well with the poor mic'ing. Basically, they didn't do a hell of a lot wrong, it just seemed like they were going through the necessary motions, partially because of the structure but largely because we couldn't hear anything other than cat calls. The most interesting thing about the match was the finish, which was a fairly nasty looking backdrop driver by lucha standards. Mogur sold it like death afterwards. He was still unconscious when the ref unmasked him and photographers stood over him taking snapshots as he lay on the canvas. He slowly came to, and the crowd were bobbing to-and-fro trying to get a look at him. The whole thing was kind of downbeat and I wasn't sure what to make of it.

El Dandy vs. Pirata Morgan, hair vs. hair, 9/23/88 So, here it is -- the elusive hair match. Only available in Japan and at a rental store to boot. This will have its grand unveiling on the DVDVR Lucha set, so you'll have to wait until then to see it. I know a lot of people are dying to see it, so I won't tell you too much about what happens, but if you've ever scanned through lucha records and let all those untaped matches kill you, then have I got a present for you. Where it rates in the grand scheme of things is up to the voters to decide, it was hard enough just getting it. I've actually seen it once before, and took my sweet eff time getting it out to people, but it's in the can and ready to go. Consider this a teaser: Dandy blades from the get-go. He's still in his gym sweater when Morgan attacks and blades on the outside. Morgan knees him in the back and he spends most of the fall with his arms crossed in front of his chest. There's blood in his eye and shit splattered all over his chest. It even trickles down to his waist. Morgan gets a decent handprint out of it and licks it off his palm. They have these awesome punch exchanges where Dandy follows up a Morgan right with some flush uppercuts, but Gran Davis keeps hooking Dandy's arm and Morgan plays them both for suckers. Morgan has a field day in the opening minutes. The trigger spot for Dandy's comeback is awesome. I don't wanna give it away, but it leads to a flying headbutt right into the sternum. Morgan sells a foul on a Dandy leg trip, and Dandy is incredulous when Davis threatens him with a DQ. Lots of heavy breathing and finger pointing. Morgan bleeds from his eye socket in the third caida and the left hand side of his face is a mess. The third caida is the most tape inspired fall I've seen from El Dandy. He does a whole bunch of Dynamite Kid spots, including the standing version of the diving headbutt where you sell the impact afterward. Somebody tell me whether that was a regular El Dandy spot. To be honest, the selling wasn't as good as in later Dandy matches and they only needed half the amount of spots, but there's always a temptation to crank up the tercera caida. I wouldn't have minded so much if the transitions hadn't been there for all the world to see. Guess I'm used to a slower rhythm from these guys and not as many spots. I'll give you an example: after a swandive tope from El Dandy, he met up with Pirata Morgan in the ring and transitioned into a German suplex. It kind of made me want to watch that '89 title match with Emilio again to see whether juniors inspired El Dandy holds up. On the other hand, you never really know whether it's you or the match. A different day and I might go along with the nearfall blitz. I rewound it a couple of times and found some nice little touches. With so much New Japan on the brain, I think I'll watch it another day. Can't spoil the post-match but it wrapped up pretty well. The crowd gave them money, so don't let my two and a quarter falls worth of enjoyment curb your enthusiasm.

Never really considered him anyone I would ever wanna watch.

The best thing about the set is reappraising guys like Choshu, Inoki and Yatsu, who were always "ugh" guys for me but awesome in the context you've provided. I figure I'll have a top 30 that I love and maybe 155 matches I'm indifferent to, but so far I'm enjoying this more than I expected.

Perro Aguayo vs. Máscara Año 2000, hair vs. mask, AAA Triplemania, 4/30/93 I guess I could be watching better stuff than this, but I'm into these bullshit mainevents lately. I don't know what's come over me, because I actually thought this was pretty good. To be fair, it wasn't a difficult match to work. The layout made it difficult for them to fail: a bit of brawling, a couple of quick falls, outside interference from the rudo corner, a smidge of controversy over the referee El Chocolate Amargo -- pretty much a baker's receipe for how to work a hair vs. mask match. Mascara Ano 2000 scrapped his way through the fight, Perro Aguayo made anguished Perro Aguayo faces and both guys were disfigured by the end. Perro juiced first, but Mascara Ano's was the sicker of the two. Jake Roberts was in attendance for this show, and you can just imagine Jake cutting a promo on this match: "It never ceases to amaze me what the human mind can come up with. I mean you think of the whole concept. Hair vs. mask? The man that wins this match is not gonna be the man that is the best wrestler, the best athlete. It's gonna be the man who will do anything. The man that will take that extra step. Do just a little bit more than anybody else. Maybe sacrifice a little bit more than anybody else. Now me, it never ceases to amaze people what I do after a show." Máscara contra Cabellera is an interesting wager. I mean you think of the whole concept. Lose your hair and it'll grow back eventually. Lose your mask and you have to live with that for the rest of your career. Makes you wonder why a rudo would ever put his mask up. I guess that crop of hair is just too tempting. The key to making it work is a drawn out struggle in the third. Since the match structure is almost always the same, the quality depends on how well you can sell. Great workers work a 50/50 caida where the match could go either way. Lesser workers are given a helping hand by the booking. I was surprised by how little bullshit there was in this match. Perro had a couple of highspots -- his tope and his La Silla (a Lou Thesz Press turned into a dive) -- but most of the fall was spent wriggling around on the mat. Timing is important here, especially if you don't have a lot of moves. For a match to hang in the balance, you need the workers to slowly come around. Perro Aguayo's childhood was straight out of Los Olvidados. The guy started working when he was five years old. He's not lying down and everyone knows it. You've got to kick out of his best stuff and sell for all you're worth otherwise there's no suspense. The longer this went, the more it seemed like Mascara Ano 2000 would find some avenue of escape. Perro Aguayo fans had to be squirming in their seats over some of these nearfalls. Most crowds have a fair idea of when the end is nigh, but the workers took it a beat beyond. Actually, they took it several beats beyond, and I would've preferred a tighter finish, but they had a face saving finish in mind. Mascara Ano was low blowed into the history books and erupted into a fit of rage. Mind you, post match antics are half the fun. Mascara Ano 2000 and his brother ripped the shirt off El Chocolate Amargo's back and pulled him around the ring like a hog tying contest. Mascara stalled for as long as he could as the suits started making their way to ringside. It was one of those great unmaskings where the rudo tells everyone to go fuck themselves. In New Zealand vernacular -- you're a pack of arseholes and you're not bloody gawking at my face. And off he went. Entertaining end for the Mask of the Year.

EL DANDY VS. ANTIFAZ DEL NORTE, hair vs. mask, Monterrey, 9/17/00 Antifaz del Norte goes to the dance with El Dandy. RAGING NOODLES: I think my positive reaction to this match has a lot to do with when it occurred. If this match had taken place in 1989-1992, I know it wouldn't have stood out amongst the great stuff that was taken place at that time. No doubt it's a flawed match but in 2000 and after years of El Dandy having 4 minute matches on WCW Worldwide, this feels like a blast to watch. El Dandy does a good job of working Antifaz over and getting some nice juice. To get the match heated, Dandy brings out some quality biting, good punches, headbutts, and mask ripping, and it was very effective. Nothing complex, but one doesn't look for complex things in a simple match like this. It was kinda surprising to see Antifaz attempt to make a comeback at the end of the 1st fall but I dug Dandy quickly cutting him off and the execution of la casita was pretty neat. In his youth, El Dandy had these really athletic and beautiful looking bumps that were breathtaking to watch. He had incredible form when he took a back body drop and I've never seen anyone else do it as good as him. It was very graceful and aesthetically pleasing to watch him bump around when he was at his athletic peak. But at this point in his career, the much heavier El Dandy has bumps that were closer to a huge sack of potatoes being thrown in the air and it landing with a hard nasty thud. Drastically different but the bumps were great and had a lot of impact. In a way, they had this "realistic" feel to them and felt more painful than his earlier bumps. In one of the previous entries, the issue of bullshit and overbooking was discussed. Zumbido was involved a lot in this match, and at times it felt like it was just too much. Zumbido handing weapons to El Dandy was a bit of a distraction, but I did like the payoff of Zumbido eating a huge shot with the fridge top. Also, one of the major spots, which was Antifaz headscissoring Zumbido off the apron, was really embarrassing and horribly executed. Although it should be pointed out that it was Antifaz's fault and not Zumbido's. Antifaz had some other awkward moments throughout the match, and one of the cringe worthy moments involved El Dandy attempting to lock the figure four leglock a second time. Everyone could see this counter coming a mile away, except Antifaz. El Dandy was just there bending over forever until he finally just rolled himself up for an inside cradle attempt. Pretty lame job from Antifaz considering this was supposed to be a big match for him. In a career that has matches against Satanico, Casas, Navarro, Azteca, and Charles, this is a minor work in the career of El Dandy. But on El Dandy's side of things, this was a very good performance out of him and it was pretty enjoyable to see Dandy lead a lesser worker through a big stip match at this point in his career. OHTANI'S JACKET: Dandy looked fantastic here. Honestly, when I turned this on, I thought I was watching something from earlier in his career. This just makes the Dandy booking situation all the more mysterous. This being Monterrey, it didn't take long for Antifaz to bleed like a stuck pig. The brawling was on par with the better stuff from Guadalajara, but if you squint hard enough it looks like it's taking place in 1989. Monterrey always gives you that sort of atmosphere because of how poorly lit Arena Coliseo is. The cameras can barely follow the workers into the crowd, and when they do it's all about guys beating the shit out of each other in the dark. Add to that the fucked up camera angles, line crosses and mismatching shots, and you have all the production values you could ever hope for. You wouldn't want them to shoot this clearly, even if they could. It's Monterrey, pretty much a refuge for broken down luchadores and blood stained canvas. I hope to God they never pump any money into it. The match was all about the deciding fall, as most apuestas matches are. It seemed to me that Dandy was working more along the lines of his middleweight days than the light heavyweight he ballooned into, presumably because of his opponent. Antifaz was a youngish guy whose mother was the promoter. He had a good body and the moves that really move 'em, but at least he tried working old-school. The headscissors spot was fucking awful, and Zumbido looked like a fool for standing there waiting for it to happen, but Antifaz made up for it with the kind of dive that gets people gigs in CMLL. Could've done without the unnecessary pose, though. Dandy was kicking it old school, pacing this sucker like the matches he worked on his way up. There wasn't as much care or attention as in the past, i.e. not as many minor details for us to gawk at, but I have no idea why CMLL didn't snap Dandy up to lead their guys through a good match for a change. As RN pointed out, Dandy was a guy who could feed Antifaz del Nortes stuff they couldn't figure out for themselves. CMLL has fuck all guys like this and that's been one of their big problems from a work standpoint. Obviously, there were other factors at work that put the kiabosh on seeing weekly El Dandy, I just think it's a damn shame. He was good for another run here. All told, it was a decent match. The finish kind of sucked, but we're not talking about a match with a lot of big ideas.

Good for Shane. What outside ventures is he interested in?

There's a handheld of it, which is no doubt the match on Dan Ginnetty's list. I also have vague memories of a commercial tape for the first Kandori/Saito match.

No, but I've encountered enough people on the internet that it wouldn't shock me to see some wrestling fan determined X female wrestler was "now a whore" and decided to kill her. Semi-related point... I read this article when I was trying to remember Schaeffer's name -- http://www.people.com/people/archive/artic...0120867,00.html This raises an interesting point: I'm not sure it was ever like that in professional wrestling, and thus much harder for people to separate the person from the wrestler they play in a promotion. When people were threatening Dump Matsumoto and her family during AJW's heyday, I don't think they were thinking about her as Kaori Matsumoto, a young woman who played a villain on television. It wasn't until after she retired that she became a TV personality and known performer. Before that, her shit was getting censored and thrown off the air in some places.

I'd say actors would be more weary of crazy fans than professional wrestlers. There's never been a Rebecca Schaeffer case in wrestling as far as I'm aware.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll get around to those matches one of these days.

I don't understand why it matters. What's the point? That there's a vast majority of wrestling fans who are stupid? Is being a wrestling fan supposed to be something you're clever at?

EL DANDY y ULTIMO VAMPIRO vs. NEGRO NAVARRO y PANTERA (IWRG 4/4/02) Dandy vs. Navarro! This is the match where they use their fists a lot. RAGING NOODLES: This past weekend I saw this match for the first time in years and was blown away by the Dandy/Navarro exchanges. Most of the pimping of Negro Navarro centers around his incredible matwork, and it's obvious why. But Navarro's someone that should get much more praise for being a complete worker with tremendous brawling skills and this is one of his great performances. In this bout, Navarro appears to be in the elite league of great brawlers like Bill Dundee and Dick Murdoch with his masterful use of fists and his selling of Dandy's strikes. Late in the final fall, Navarro nails Dandy with a KO looking punch that sends Dandy crumbling to the mat. One announcer starts to compare Navarro to Marco Antonio Barrera and later on the other announcer talks about how Navarro's fists have sent many people to the hospital. Navarro's striking ability is so strong that you actually believe the announcers! I guess the best way to describe Navarro's performance is "Dick Murdochian". I always thought Pantera was one of the more underrated workers in lucha libre, and a really smooth technico worker. He's a rudo here, and spends a lot of time leading Ultimo Vampiro through the match. Pantera is solid enough in this role and does some good work with Ultimo Vampiro, who is without question the worst worker of the match. Pantera has some nice holds along the way, bumps good for Vampiro's stuff, and hits a great looking springboard senton. But it was awkward and ugly to see Vampiro lock a loose submission hold over Navarro and it was something one would have a hard time buying. Also, it's a major shame that the final showdown of the match was Pantera/Vampiro instead of it being an epic final conclusion to the great Navarro and Dandy story. Like Dick Murdoch's giant bag of selling tricks, Navarro demonstrates a variety of ways to put over Dandy's strikes. In the match, he'll get hit by a punch and sell it as if his legs are buckling below him, he'll slightly lose his balance and try to regain his composure. At another moment, Dandy nails him and he slowly collapses against the ropes, and then he takes that Jerry Estrada bump on his head to the outside. One other example is he'll draw closer to Dandy to shorten the distance between Dandy and himself after a blow has rocked him. Dandy gets the better of Navarro with counter punches, and he has some cool moments dodging Navarro's stuff. Dandy absorbs a lot of punishment and it makes him look like such a tough badass. He takes Navarro's best right hooks, straight rights, uppercuts and bodyshots against the ropes. Dandy has that selling that is hard to pull off, the selling where he's trying to act like it's not hurting him but it's really killing him inside. It's awesome and it feels like a brutal war. A few months after this, El Dandy started a AAA feud with El Hijo Del Perro Aguayo that turned out to be very disappointing and underwhelming. In 2004, he had a title match with LA Park that had both guys working hard but it was nothing more than OK. Of course, there is the possibility that some hidden post-2002 El Dandy gem gets discovered any day now, but this appears to be the final great El Dandy match. On the other hand, Navarro is still one of the best workers in the world and has had some great performances in 2009 against Solar I, Black Terry, Mike Quackenbush, and Dr. Cerebro. OHTANI'S JACKET: This really was the tale of two wrestlers -- one of whom went on to become the wrestler of the decade and the other who faded into obscurity. Flashback to 1992 and it seems unreal. Dandy was the middleweight champion of the world and still a draw at the main event/semi final level. Navarro was working a dying territory and hadn't been a draw since the Misioneros broke up in '86. I'm not sure what the story with Dandy is. Most people assume that he's burnt all his bridges and doesn't have a good enough relationship with the promoters to earn a veteran spot. I guess those were heady days back with the suits and shoes, and the nice watches. Big things had been predicted for Navarro early in his career, but according to Dr. Lucha, by 1991 he was reduced to working small independent shows, living off his reputation. I would've loved for the Misioneros to have jumped ship in '92 and reformed with Texano in the trios scene back then, but from all accounts, Navarro wasn't charismatic enough or a big enough draw to interest anyone. That should've been the end of Negro Navarro, and would've been if not for two things: the digital revolution and Navarro's rise from El Misionero to El Maestro. The growth of digital technology has given us access to shows we would've never seen before, and while it's a pretty small circle of fans who'd consider Negro Navarro the best wrestler of the decade, fuck it, veterans working the indies has been the best thing about this decade. I'd love to know what motivates Negro Navarro and other UWA cast offs, but whatever it is, it's the difference between El Dandy and Negro Navarro in 2009. To be fair, Negro Navarro is something of a late bloomer. Los Misioneros de la Muerte weren't the most charismatic group in Mexico. They were hailed by the lucha magazines for their new breed of skill, speed and athleticism, and Navarro was very much the "middle worker." I've seen scraps of Misioneros footage, and Navarro, while an excellent worker, never stood out from his peers. The interesting thing about this match is that it's somewhere between a Misioneros style performance and the focus on Navarro as a singles worker this decade. Navarro's selling and bumping was straight out of his Misioneros days. We didn't really see his famed submission knowledge until the final fall, and even then it wasn't the single takedown stuff that's made him so tough in recent years. This was brawling style Negro Navarro, similar to how he's worked with Black Terry of late. I think I've said in the past that Navarro was never much of a brawler, but this match and a handheld I saw from '84 knock that idea on its ass. Navarro ducking and weaving like a pro-boxer was awesome, and the comparisons with Dick Murdoch and Lawler and Dundee are apt. Dandy was still the man here and the charisma from both workers was off the charts. Back in the Misioneros days, the Dandy/Navarro exchanges would've formed a small part of the overall match. Here, the match was stripped back, and Navarro and Dandy were able to shine in all their bareknuckled glory. It was great watching Navarro emerge as a singles worker of note, even if there was a reversal of stature going on every time Navarro landed rights and lefts. Like I said, I have no idea what happened to Dandy this decade, but I hope he's still driving around in an El D Cadillac getting paid in full. The match was a bit too scrappy for me to call it great, but if there were more matches like this available, fans like me wouldn't have to bother with the travesties that other companies promote.

I really think this is a case of knowing more about your hobby than other situations where fan behaviour crosses the line. If you wanna compare wrestling to other forms of fiction, live arena wrestling isn't shot on a secure lot and actors don't taunt and antagonise a live audience, though a great many of them have worked their character in public.

Fuerza and El Dandy never met in any known singles match. When did Terry Funk style Puerto Rico stories stop being cool? You can lay the blame at fans attacking wrestlers for any number of reasons -- drunkenness, socio-economic level, fans hating the heels, or just plain stupidity, but unless it crosses the line I don't see what's wrong with an old school wrestling crowd. Flair having to drop the title to Colon to avoid a riot is a great carnie story. Could be complete bullshit, but wrestling wouldn't be wrestling without carnie lies. What would you prefer Jingus? How should a crowd react?

Who says British fans thought Big Daddy matches were real? They were filled with comedy for the most part. The same audience who loved Big Daddy enjoyed watching Jackie Pallo and Les Kellet yap their way through entire bouts. To be honest, I don't understand the problem. If you can work an audience into believing what they're seeing is real, that's generally taken as a sign of a good worker. Does that mean the audience are stupid? Maybe, but that's why the boys in the back had names for the fans out front. It's a bit ondescending for my liking. Kayfabe was an important part of the business up until recently, and to rubbish the hand that feeds you is pretty ignorant on the part of the wrestling business and the people in it. As for why people believed it was real, there's always been skeptics who didn't and pro-wrestlers have always put up a front that it is real. But mostly, people believed it was real because they wanted it to be real. And on that point, what does it matter? Give me an audience who think it's real over a ROH type crowd any day of the week. Why the rant about one of the best possible things in pro-wrestling?