Johnny Guitar

Austin doesn't like him? There was an interview with Austin in The UK Sun years ago were he was pretty critical of HHH. "Doesn't like him" was probably the wrong phrase. More Austin didn't like HHH's politics.

The exact opposite is true. I am sure this came up before somewhere. Anyway I agree 100%. Nothing looks worse than a manager or interviewer towering over a wrestler. IF Rob goes in that direction at least he wont have to bend knees and/or spread his legs apart to look shorter like Matt Striker. He will also benefit from the roster trending shorter. Also his facials are definitely there to do the whole intimidated by the heel thing. Yeah that makes sense. I completley overlooked that aspect. Onwards and upwards for Rob!

The fact that New Japan was the most succesful wrestling company in history, before the attitude era, and gets overlooked makes me sad.

For all Vince's problem's. Showing ass isn't one of them. Would HHH be willing to do the same? Past history shows not. Hunter has always striked me as a paranoid motherfucker. Would he be willing to let someone like Steve Austin, who not only has fuck you money and hates his guts, but is over like rover go on live TV... Edit: ... and trash him to advance a feud? And then do the job if required. If it meant money being made.

That was great! I'm happy for Naylor that he's living the dream. But man did he look small in that skit. That's not going to him any favours.

You meet the same people on the way up as you do on the way down. HHH is never going to get the same respect as Vince. RVD was willing to talk shit about him, even when he was under contract and could have been buried. Bret, Austin & Rock don't like him, and are all rich enough that they don't need a handout. Would him and steph be willing to put people like that in front of a live crowd?

In late 93 / early 94 he, along with Dustin Rhodes, was still being talking about as "the wrestler of the 90s" and as a big future star. I mean Austin wasn't just there on the upper midcard, he was properly hyped. I've got no reason to believe that they wouldn't have kept pushing him. I don't see why they couldn't have had Austin in a new Horsemen in 94/5. Flair (world), Austin (US), Arn and Pillman (Tag). That's not a bad stable. At some point Austin is sick of being in the Tully role and wants a shot at the World title. Instant feud. If Hogan doesn't come in, I see literally no reason for this not to happen. Sting / Austin would have been great. Austin (face) vs. Flair (heel) backed by Arn and Pillman and possibly a turned Dustin Rhodes as the 4th Horseman. By 96, he's a main eventer and a draw in his own right. There's no reason either why Lex Luger and people like Savage wouldn't have come into WCW - and those would have been main event angles too. Maybe Luger / Austin as part of a wider Sting feud, while Flair / Savage is happening, then switch to Austin / Savage dream feud as we have Sting vs. Flair part 986. Theoretically, Vader is still around too as a constant alternative main event heel. Why wouldn't something like this have played out? Could something like this have played out? Absolutley. But its all a big what if? Luger was properly hyped back in the day and look how it turned out for him. Austin/Sting would have been great. Austin even pitched that feud to management. And they shot him down. Austin had a ton of potential, but for reason or another WCW management didn't want to capitalize on it. The only people who seemed keen on making Austin a star where Ricky Steamboat, Paul Heyman and Bret Hart.

Meltzer has strongly implied in the past that Stephanie is a Laurinaitis booster so I'm not so sure about that, especially since he's outright said they'll fire Kevin Dunn as soon as they get full control. Dunn knows "where the bodies are buried". If Trips and Steph are smart they'll keep him him sweet. There's a reason James Dudley is in the Hall of Fame.

Whilst Austin should have definatley been elevated. I'm not sure if it would have happened even if Hogan never came in. Everyone knows about his problems with Bischoff and Hogan. But he also took alot of shots at Flair and Dusty too when he left. Which has kind of been downplayed or forgotten over the years. I think Austin would have found himself in pretty much the same position Luger was in, in 89-90. yeah always wanted to know this. The in ring time on RAW just plummets around September My guess is that ratings were up. Summerslam pulled a monster buyrate and Russo had played a part in some of that. Vince delegating some power makes sense, especially if he's distracted with the IPO stuff and being a full time onscreen character. It wouldn't be the first or last time that Vince has let the wrong person grab his ear.

How the hell is Verne the worst booker ever? It might have gone pear-shaped at the end, but he promoted a successful territory for decades. Ole did an appalling job in WCW, but he did have success in GCW for years. Russo had 2 good years, where he was a small part of a much bigger machine that consisted of people who were a hell of alot smarter and talented than he was. Russo might have pitched some ideas but if anyone can take credit for Austin/McMahon. It's Austin and McMahon. He was already the contender for the worse booker ever based on his WCW run alone. And if there was any doubt about that. TNA cememted that. Even the hardcore nutter Russo fans gave up defending him.

This is really the major problem that TNA has, they don't make anyone on their roster feel like a star. It's why when guys come in, and SHOULD bring a buzz to the promotion like when Angle and Hardy came in, there is no buzz because TNA just makes everyone on the roster feel the same. Or if through some magical occurrence, one of their guys gets a buzz about him IN TNA, they kill them like they did Samoa Joe. I don't follow TNA very often, but I did watch Lockdown and the only person that felt like a guy to keep watching on that show was Bobby Roode. This. Throughout their history at least someone or something once a year gets over. And they they kill it. Ron Killings, Raven,Styles, Monty, Christian, LAX, Shelley, Angle, Beer Money. Not saying that these guys on their own would have done it, but they all managed to generate some interest and/or positive feelings and it was snuffed out

Yeah, Vince didn't even meet his dad till he was a teenager and once he got his foot in the door he was basically banished to the backwaters of Maine. Which was the ass end of the WWWF , to prove his chops. Owen also benifited from having the rep as a good pay off man and being an honest dude. By wrestling standards.

A few years ago Meltzer was reporting that Vince was going around telling everyone that his favorite period was 79 to 85. Which is why you saw guys from that era suddenly showing up who hadn't been heard from in years, like Tony Atlas. Vince is a complicated dude. He can be ruthless, petty and callous as fuck sometimes. Then on the flip side he paid for Sherri and Bam Bam's funeral's. Called Bret, when he had his stroke and Jarrett, when his wife died to offer support and repeatedly pays for Waltman's rehab stints, even before there was a wellness policy. According to Jericho. Every time he tried to talk business with Vince. Vince was more interested about recollecting the old guys like Bobo Brazil.

He also died just shortly after Vince Jr bought the company, which you'd think would be a pretty huge chunk of change. Did Jr get that money right back, soon after he'd paid it? No one know's exactly how much money Vince had to pay his dad, Monsoon,Skaaland & Zacko for the company. Alot of people seem to think that Vince Jr actually bought the company in April 1979 and June 1982 was actually the date that he finally paid them all off. That seem's plausible as going nationwide was a huge risk with no guarentee of success. Vince Sr would have wanted to be paid in full first incase it all went tits up before he fully retired. Some of the old school promoters were quite well off. Don Owen made big bucks turkey farming. Which is why PNW was the second too last territory to go down, and stayed in business as long as it did. Despite not being a big money territory. Who know's how much cash Vince Sr had. He had been successfully promoting the biggest money territory since the 50's so he wasn't in the poor house. But I guess his wive got first dibs on any money when he died.

I think it's too late for anybody now.

I was in full on annoying smart mark teenager mode when this match happened. Didn't want to see him in WCW, WWF, New japan or anywhere. I just wanted him too fuck off and never come back. I don't think the match is GREAT. But I remember being shocked that i liked it. Because WCW was abit more workratey and there were guys that worked different styles, Vader, Austin & Regal, and Hogan was older. I thought that he would have benefited himself and the company if he'd shown abit of ass at least the beginning. And realised that he had to step up. and not really lost anything in the process. Some combination of New Japan Hogan and "Humble" Hogan 2002. Would have probably smoothed over alot of people. Both the smarks and the traditional WCW fanbase

The thing with TNA, even if they turn a corner and somehow become awesome. They're dragging 10 years of shit behind them. Even if the next 10 years were fucking amazing, you can still say they've only been good for half their life. They've outlived Mid-South/UWF, ECW and Smokey Mountain and it looks like they'll outlive WCW eventually. But they haven't come close to hitting the creative high points of those companies, let alone finacially in the case of WCW. Like everyone else. When ECW and WCW went down i really hoped that a wrestling company would learn from their mistakes and emerge to be a solid counterpoint. They didn;t need to go head to head with Vince, he's too far ahead in the game too catch. Just be good and have enough presence and credibility that when someome jumped ship it would seem like a big deal (eg. Flair,Vader,Jericho).

I think that's just the reality of the consequences of Vince conquering wrestling. In the 80's he was young, hungry, had a vision and had the cream of the territories to pick from. Guys that were over. Had experience and new what they were doing. There were some mis-steps. some things didn't work out or go according to plan. But his desire to succeed and make money meant that for the most part everyone was pushed to the best of their abilities and it paid off. In the 90's business was down. He was under pressure and although he had to be dragged kicking and screaming from his prefered method of promoting. Eventually gave chances to people who didn't fit his M.O. Who had talent and that paid off too. Now in the 00's. Vince is old. Set in his ways. Has no major competion in wrestling and is set for life fianacially. Which makes him reckless and feckless with talent. Some guys have been made this last decade. But they all seem to be in spite of, instead of, WWE's booking.

Wasn't Tugboat originally billed as "Tugboat" Thomas? Which I guess is a play on "Sailor" Art Thomas. Maybe Vince had fond memories of him. Jericho mentions in his second book that everytime he had a meeting to discuss business. Vince spent most of the time reminicisg about old wrestlers.

Sting/Rude was the featured match. Ahh, that would explain it - still 4.30 is a TV rating that WWE would be VERY happy about at this point in time. I might have to do some research, because it seems like WCW was doing pretty decent TV ratings prior to the Monday Night Wars, which means that WWF must have been doing very good ratings for Monday Night Raw, unless these kinds of WCW ratings are strictly confined to COTC specials and none of the other events. A match between Flair and Pillman in April 91 drew a 4.0 on the saturday night show.

I've posted (or, been a member, really) on that site for quite some time, and though I really can't stomach 99% of the wrestling threads there anymore, you'd be stupified at the posters on that site. I think I've lost multiple IQ points since reading some of the crap there (which is why I avoid so much of the forum). There's threads made time after time about a wrestler's hair. Seriously. What Mr. Wrestling X is saying has some truth to it. They obv. don't bame Vince Russo for rain, stubbing their toe or JFK, but I'm going to do anything to defend Russo anyway. I think Mr. Wrestling X should have left the quotes out for what he typed because it made it look like it was actually said by people. "A match isn't good unless it's a 30 min spotfest" isn't really a direct quote (unless someone shows me one), but it's more an opinion, sort of. Though "the Attitude Era is the best era in wrestling history"......yeah, that's said. A lot. I can see that. People are always fond of the era they grew up on. It brought in alot of new fans and it's over a decade since it ended so thats more than enough time for people to feel nostalgic as they grow older. I think 99 is the worse year in company history ring wise. But tons of people loved it and it drew huge money. So what do I know

Fans are fans. Paraphrasing Loss here. But people like what they like, and hate what they hate. You'll never really a consesus on anything in wrestling because it's so varied and people's opinions shift all the time.

I'm a massive film fan and those five points you listed could easily be appplied to discussions movie buffs have. Just switch the names. "The 70's was the best era in film history". "A film isn't any good unless it's over two hours". "Quentin Tarantino makes everything better". "Michael Bay is to blame for everything". "Films need swearing and violence to work". Some fans think Ebert's word is gospel. One guy on the Empire boards thinks Eberts cancer gave him brain damage and is opnion is therefore irrelevant. Football fans. Comic fans. Baseball fans. Music fans and so on will all have names and themes they can put to those points. Every group has it's own talking points that come up time and again. IWC sounds like a wrestling company. I thought that was the joke.

The way PPV buyrate's were calibrated changed at the beginning of 92. Those 1.0+'s from 87- 91. Are not the same as 1.0's today. although JCP big draw some big numbers in that era. Superbrawl 2 and Havoc 92 are good numbers, and Sting does deserve some credit for them. But so do Luger and Jake. Sting/Luger was a WCW dream match and Jake still had alot of heat from the Savage feud. He big some big business down in AAA after his WCW stint. The Saturday Night match in August 93 did draw a good rating. Although word of The Disney Tapings had started to get out, not everyone was in the loop yet as to future plans. Their was always interest in Flair/Sting from the WCW faithful and by this point it was well established in WCW lore that Sting shouldn't trust Flair. A Horsemen doublecross and beatdown seemed inevitable. Which is also something that interested the WCW faithful.

They did run those areas though. Baltimore and Philly were WWF towns in the early 80's. Not JCP, and certainly by the early 90's Baltimore was thought of as a WCW town. They were also big in Chicago. Which both them and the WWF took from the AWA. They drew well in places like Amarillo and Corpus Christi in Texas, which was about as far as you could get from Dallas. Which nobody was able to draw in until the end of the decade. They ran tons in the central states which is also out of their "core" territory. It's worth pointing out that whilst the WWF might have run everywhere in the 80's. They didn't draw everywhere in the 80's. Alot of the old territories, especially in the south. Were resiliant to them for along time. It wasn't until the Attitude era that Vince was basically able to go anywhere in the US and draw well. In fact after the bubble burst in the early 90's. The WWF re-treated heavily back into their homebase. For a few years they were more a Northern "super territory". Most of the TV was shot in the north east. Alot of the PPV's too.