Johnny Guitar

Not everyone. There were two groups that like him: * Paid Whore Shills Mostly RYDER & Co. over at WCW.com, but there were others sucking on the WCW Teet that supported Russo and Russo's Bullshit. * Russo Fanboys I swear to god... there were some of those guys around. They were even Russo Fanboys after WCW failed and died, and Russo continued to suck in his post-WCW Life. Those guys would have an explanation for why the ratings were Really Great under Russo, how he turned things around, and how he was held back / cut off by [Kevin Sullivan / Standards & Practice / Various Members of WCW Management / Etc / Etc / Etc]. If you think the threads here between me and Jerry were banging your head against the wall, they were NOTHING compared to WCW Fanboys vs Thinking Hardcore Wrestling Fans. Dumb as fucking rocks... and would take forever to drive away. John I'd managed to block out the memory of the hardcore Russo fans. But it's slowly coming back. The horror!

Thank you !!!! Nash is killing me !!! Wait until you get to make fun of Russo later in the year! John One of my indexable memories about wrestling in 1999 is that everyone hated Russo. It was just a question of when you were made aware of his excistance.. All the hard core fans hated him at the beginning of the year. His move to WCW was so well publicised, that when he has exposed as totally shit. Well...

Althougth I'm no longer really interested in ECW. Personally I am interested in what Ted Petty had to say.

You know he say's this to his wife! Piper was fucking horrible at this point. But I can't hold it all against him. Like nearly everyone else. WCW had killed his morale at this point and he was happy too phone it in. In his defence. He wanted too work an angle with Raven to put him over, and along with Flair and Bret, was the only member of the old guard, who wanted too put the next generation over and male some new stars Keep going! This thread is great, and is bringing back some memories. Most of them bad. At the time I couldn't believe how bad they were fucking up, and how bad I wanted someone too sort it out.

That's been my theory for WCW kicking ass in 1992. Well not really a theory. It was a pretty awesome year quality-wise, but the fanbase had been burned so many times (screwjobs, countless changes in direction, etc) over the 5 previous years, that no one tuned in to give it another chance. WCW never seemed to give anything enough time to gain momentum. I guess this is pretty blantantly obvious though. I think thats a fair point. For both WCW and the WWF. There's lots of great stuff to enjoy in both company's . But the box office didn't reflect the in ring effort that both companies put out. There's obviously reasons why the american business went in the shitter, which is ironoc as it was probably the best in ring year for five years. Which shows that the casual fan really doesn't give a fuck about workrate

I really don't know what you're talking about. Leeds United has played at Elland Road for more than a century. It's been renovated several times over the years. Average attendance is in the right hand column here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Leeds..._A.F.C._seasons Their attendance went in the shitter when they got relegated to start the 60s. Revie came in, turned around the team, got promoted, and took the club to it's highest points. Revie took the England job, the club started to decline... and attendance dropped. Leeds got relegated, and it dropped more. It picked up when they won the Second Division to get promoted, and then stayed improved when they got into the First Division / EPL (with the lack of instant "growth" due to the transition to All Seaters and also the whip saw of 1st Division Title to Relegation Battle in the space of a year. Once they established themselves as a quality EPL side, a regular fixture in the Top 5 (7 out of 9 years), attendance grew rapidly and held. Then they got hit with financial issues, a rapid fall from a Top 5 side to dropping *two* divisions in just 6 years... and attendance went to shit. They've moved up one division, but attendance has never returned to the peak. There's a baseline of fans who are Leeds Fans who will go out and support them even when they're shit. There's a larger base of Leeds fans who just aren't going to pay every game to see them if they're shit. That 16K of extra fans aren't all "fad" fans, and frankly aren't even all fair weather fans or casual fans. You can be a hardcore fan and just not want to pay when it sucks to go to Elland Road and watch your team blow. As a fan, you don't owe it to the club to pay them money when they suck. We see this in all sorts of sports. Ask Kriz about how Braves attendance has changed over the years. How many people came out in the late 80s when the club went to shit. Even hardcore fans don't want to go to the stadium when your team is losing 100+ games. So no... wrestling isn't completely different from "sports" or entertainment. Fans of pretty much everything wander away when the product doesn't keep them interested. John As someone who lives in Leeds this is so true. Whenever Leeds play at home, all the pubs and bars in the surrounding era are packed. People do care, just not enough too by a ticket. They do care, its just they've been burned in the past and times are tough economically.

It's better to ask forgivness, than to ask permission. As the old saying goes. I know the Arn spoof caused alot of grief, but had The Horsemen won Wargames and got revenge, instead of the pointless heel turn we got instead. I think people would have been willing to overlook it.

Bischoff was going to be head of creative. Which begs the question. How on the ball were Fusient management? Would they have a clue and override his more stupid descisions? I like to think that they would have seen through Eric pretty quickly and shown him the door.

Hogan wasn't under contract to anyone at this point and although there were rumors that he'd come back for the relaunch, he was negoiating with Vince for Wrestlemania 17. It's hard to say what sort of contract Fusient would have offered Hogan. They weren't going to take everyone who was under a Time Warner contract, but those they did they were going to honour. Which would have probably crippled them from the start. Unless Fusient offered him at least the same sort of contract he was on. Which was unlikely, but not out of the question. I think Hogan would have gone back to the WWF. He wanted to go back and there was big money on the table with Austin and Rock if he did.

I think they were expecting Pillman to make a quick and full recovery. I definately remember an interview with Jim Ross were he stated that they had planned a major Austin/Pillman feud. This was when Bret/Shawn was still pencilled in for Wrestlemania 13. I think 1996 was probably the last year Vince had longterm booking plans, until Rock/Cena. Egos, injuries and WCW seemed to put the kibosh on everything in 1996/97.

Along with what Cox said. They were also planning to build to Steiner/Goldberg at Starrcade 2001. Sean O' Haire was also in line for a big push as well.

Sorry dude.

Like CM Funk said. I think Vince likes big personalties, as long as they have something to back it up with in the ring and generate interest out of it. So Jericho is a multiple time world champ, whilst carlito gets his marching orders. As for why they have trouble making new stars. It's not just Vince calling the shots anymore. Steph and HHH have power, and even if they didn't. Vince is a) an old man that is out of touch, is fianacially set and c) has no competion, as far as wrestling is concerned.

That was 15 years ago though. Alot of things have changed since then. There's alot of stuff that WWF did on TV back in 1996/97, when they were PG, that wouldn't fly today. When they are PG. To tie this into AW's comment and how it could be percieved as Vince's/WWE's comment. I used to love how most of Austin, Pillman and Bret's promo's in 96/97 ended with Vince apologizing on commentry. Back then anything that anyone said or did could be excused as guys getting caught up in the moment as it was live and they were ad-libbing. With WWE stressing the scripted nature of the show over the last decade plus. They've painted themselve's into a corner. Plus they seem more beholden too things like the wishes of their advertisers and linda's sentate campaign. So they don't want to rock the boat and people who do get thrown under the bus.

Much better. And by a country mile too.

The apter mags pushed for an IC tag title big time. Would someone like The Harts have benefited from an IC tag title reign in 1988-'89, between their World Title reigns The WWf's roster was deep in the late 80's. Their booking was solid for the most part. Pretty much everyone who deserved to get over did. They didn't need TV titles or iC tag titles

Vince doesn't care anymore. That's the problem.

Six months later. But is that still a viable invitation?

Has anyone here heard of the "Escape From Alcatraz Island" match? Bare with me. I remember reading about this in the Apter mags. It supposedly happened in 1990 in Georgia All Star Wrestling at an event called Beach Brawl? (not the UWF ppv), between Joel Deaton and i think Nick Busick. The event was held outdoors and the match apparently happened on a small island out in the bay. i think the object was to climb a tower on the island and ring a bell and then swim to shore. No photo's or video have ever showed up of this and when I've asked on line over the years. No one seems to have a fucking idea what I'm on about. Did this match actually happen? or is it something Apter made up for shits and giggles?

I know Vince change's his mind depending on which way the wind is blowing. But for a long while he used to say that his ideal TV format would be 3 primetime 90 minute shows a week. Close enough.

There was. But never underestimate British patriotism and alcohol!

I was, too. Warrior was my first favorite wrestler, and I don't know what kind of joyless bastard you would have to be to hate Randy Savage, so I was happy neither of them sold out at the time. As an adult....Flair and Perfect went a very long way to accomplish something that they could have gotten from jumping Savage in the parking lot before his title defense against Flair. If the in-universe goal was to injure Savage's knee going into that match, this was kind of a needlessly elaborate plan that could've easily backfired on them. If the real life goal was to create added tension for the Savage/Warrior match, it's not like either of those guys need help being paranoid and insane. I was actually watching their tag against the Nasty Boys from the SummerSlam Spectacular just the other day. You totally buy that these guys would have dissension even without an outside heel party getting involved. So the storyline comes across as kinda pointless to me. I love that Flair was paired up with Hennig and Heenan in the WWF. It seems so right. Anyway. I knew that Flair & Perfect would get involved in the WWF title match even before they started the storyline on TV. I got a flyer from SilverVision for SummerSlam months beforehand. Which had just had Bret/Davey, Savage/Warrior, Taker/Kamala & Warriors/Money Inc (which was billed as a title match) listed. As that took care of all the major babyfaces and left Flair without a marquee match. I kinda guessed he & Perfect would stick there nose's in somewhere. Sidenote for SummerSlam 92. I met Animal & Wayne Bloom in the Hard Rock Cafe before the card. They were very cool. Me and my cousins almost got lynched for cheering Bret in Wembley. Good times!

That was a big deal when they bought it though. I agree with you dude. The Apter Mags put over tag teams huge. Stuff like the Crocket Cup and the Survivor Series tag team matches were treated like a massive deal.

It's worth remembering that during this time the Apter mags were pushing big time the idea of the WWF having an IC tag team team title too.

I don't think its overlooked here or places like DVDR, and "history" might be overstating it. But i've definatley encountered people online over the years that were adament that nobody apart from Vince and WCW in the 90's has ever had any success. Yes. It was wrong to try and argue with those people.