Grimmas

Like I said, if the same thing was asked with Japan instead of Mexico in the question the answer would vastly different (or he would ignore it, like he did when I asked that). It's also ridiculous that that type of question is asked, as it never would with Japan or America.

Show me please or what are you talking about?

I added El Canek to the cards in full force, hope you feel he was well represented.

It was more like if someone asked Dave what he thought was a 5 star American match, he listed a Steamboat/Flair match, and then someone flew off the handle thinking Dave was declaring it the ONLY 5 star American match. Dave would never answer like that, he would say there is too many to list or just ignore the question.

It has nothing to do with his ratings. Dave Meltzer is viewed as the authority on wrestling and wrestling history. When he answers the way he does, he implies that lucha has had only 1 five-star match in the entire history of a style and country. This is coming from the same person who has handed out how many five-star ratings to NJPW in the last year and it paints a picture. Whether Dave feels he is an authority or not, that is how he is viewed.

Of course he can have an opinion. I've seen his five star bar, it's real low, so I would debate him on it.

This exactly. If you have a problem with his answer, I'd like to know which lucha matches you consider to be surefire 5 star affairs. Because I don't know more than one either. Easily, UG-Atlantis Atlantis-V3 MS-1-Sangre Chicana Dandy-Azteca Dandy-Satanico and my viewing is super limited, there is a ton more I've heard others praise.

It can be interrupted that way. Would anyone ask dave " in japanese wrestling, which match do you consider a five stars?"? If they did, would his response be 6/3/94 and that's it? Somehow I doubt it.

No he didn't. Dave Meltzer‏ @davemeltzerWON 7h7 hours agoMore Dave Meltzer Retweeted winyberto Atlantis vs. Villano III Dave Meltzer added, winyberto @winy_leal @davemeltzerWON in mexican wrestling, which match do you consider a five stars? 3 replies3 retweets14 likes Reply 3 Retweet 3 Like 14

Hmm... no.

Meltzer justed tweeted that there has only been one five-star match in lucha libre history (Atlantis-Villano III). That seems like part of the problem.

Catch up time, posted three shows in quick format. If people have questions about what happened I will answer. I will post 2-3 more in quick format then do the next one in real time. The first real time one will feature the tournament for the Mexican National Trios Titles!

CMLL Homenaje a Ray Mendoza February 1, 1985 1. La Fiera y Valente Fernandez y Hombre Bala def. Jerry Estrada y Kato Kung Lee y Moguro 2. Los Missioneros de La Muerte def. El Solar y Super Astro y Ultraman 3. El Hijo del Santo y Alofonso Dantes y Mocha Cota def. Emilio Charles Jr. y Talisman y Espanto Jr. 4. Los Villanos def. Los Brazos 5. Cien Caras w/ Perro Aguayo def. El Satanico w/ MS-1 to retain the Mexian National Heavyweight Title CMLL Super Viernes February 8, 1985 1. Atlantis y Ringo Mendoza y Cachorro Mendoza def. Tony Benetto y Hombre Bala y Alfonso Dantes 2. El Dandy y Fuerza Guerrera def. La Fiera y Mocha Cota 3. Blue Panther y Babe Face y Black Terry def. Tony Acre y Vulcano y Popitekus 4. Mexican National Light Heavyweight Champion Negro Casas def. Gran Cochise 5. El Canek y Sangre Chicano y Perro Aguayo def. Los Infernales CMLL Super Viernes February 15, 1985 1. Super Astro y El Solar y Ultraman def. Talisman y Moguro y Kato Kung Lee 2. Los Villanos def. Hombre Bala y Tony Salazar y Ringo Mendoza 3. Negro Casas y Black Terry y Blue Panther def. Gran Cochise y Tony Acre y Vulcano 4. El Hijo del Santo y El Canek def. Espanto Jr. y Emilio Charles Jr. 5. Mexican National Middleweight Champion Atlantis def. El Dandy

It's so frustrating. There is talent there I really love like Allie, Saxton, Rosemary, etc.. yet I can't watch this shit. Wrestling is not complicated, why does everybody make it so difficult on themselves?

Every ROH ppv I always forget than am shocked by the price. What ROH is saying with this price is: ROH PPV = WrestleMania, NXT Take Over, EVOLVE 80 & 81, Joey Janella's show, Beyond, WWN Supershow, ACW

So there is a show on the Observer site that reviews 98 Raws, but nothing that reviews lucha or EVOLVE or other indies?

I don't understand the desire to get so many people on the show. I'd prefer a trios instead of a six-way or something, if you want to go that route. Mentioned above, but SCI is the best multi-man. I do remember digging the Horsemen vs Rey/Kidman vs Raven/Saturn one in WCW, not sure if it holds up.

Always was a big fan of his, even if he scared me as a kid.

Ok, Is that what I said? I said the way we talk about celebrities bodies either adds to or pushes people towards ED's. Do you disagree with that? If you do, then fine. I'd urge you to read up on it. If you agree with my statement, then why continue it at all, even if it's a tiny subset that may not be harming anyone? It's the same practice that is harmful.

Stro, I'm not claiming to have special knowledge. If you feel the way people talk about celebrities has no effect on regular people, well I just disagree. I've seen lots of evidence to the contrary and I'd urge you to read and learn more. I can give you some links if you'd like.

Sorry, Crosby overweight you are correct, it's been a while since I looked at it. The industry really needs to switch from weight to health.

Ok, they look overweight, even if may be perfectly healthy. What does pointing it out and mocking it achieve? Le'ts not pretend people don't mock them for it. Bringing up BMI was just a reference to show you how stupid the term overweight is. You may mean they have fat on it, other's use it a term to mean unhealthy. It's not a strawman to bring up BMI if you are talking about overweight, since that is what doctors use. As for your other comment, all these hypotheticals well this is an attitude that is harming people. Look into anyone who talks about ED's and you'll see how hurtful media and people's perceptions of it feed the ED. It's not really hypothetical. I brought up Big Show, just as an example. We really have no idea if he's healthy or not. As an example, my wife lost a lot of weight and got all this praise, a lot of the weight was lost in an unhealthy manner and the praise only feed the ED. So yeah, you never really known. That's a real world example of how complicated it is. I'm a little weary of praising people for losing weight, because there is a not so tiny chance that they are actually less healthy now and praising them will only cause further harm. You can praise Big Show for having abs now and it may be the correct response, I don't really know nor do you. EDIT: So, somehow my last part disappeared. The issues are, I know over a dozen people who deal with ED's, women particularly. This talk you are doing is harmful and they would tell you that. There is a problem where most people hide their ED's, but this type of talk only feeds it. If you want to learn more about this subject, I would suggest reading or listening to some women with ED's to gain a perspective on this. Someone like Kati Morton on youtube is really good.

You have NO FUCKING IDEA if Kevin Owens is over weight or not. Did you not read the shit about set theory of weight I wrote? Do you have any ideal what is ideal body weight is? How do you know he's overweight, because he has fat on him? By overweight you are implying he's unhealthy or could be healthier. Do you know that? Of course you don't, that is why it's a problem to state that. If you just mean he's overweight by the standard that he has fat on him, then so what? Why even bring that up, what is the point? Maybe you mean if he lost weight or got more toned he'd be a better in ring wrestler? Ok, maybe? You have no evidence in any way if that's true. Be more clear what you mean by overweight. Over something so stupid by just ACKNOWLEDGING THE APPEARANCE of a human. Not even judging or shaming. Just mentioning how someone looks causes you to flip your shit and try to wear everyone down. In a form of entertainment where appearances might be the most important aspect of one's career. We might as well not be allowed to talk about a wrestler's selling ability at that point. You might want to re-read the thread. Someone stated that wrestling fans don't care about a wrestler's weight at all (or having some fat on them) and I challenged them on that. Of course you can ACKNOWLEDGE AN APPEARANCE. Maybe you should actually listen to what I'm saying, instead of getting SUPER OFFENDED by what I'm saying. On the other hand, how you acknowledge someone's appearance has connotations which you may not even intend. Don't act like saying this guy's fat is some innocent statement. In no way did I say, don't acknowledge someone's appearance. However, keep building your straw men.

Since I bought it up in my post, Charles asked me about it. I'm stepping down as a mod, since it seems to be bothering people.

I guess I wasn't clear, as people are jumping down my throat, so I'll try to clarify. Then I guess I will move on from this topic. There is a really fucked up attitude towards weight in society. By the definitions doctors use, a great athlete like Sidney Crosby is obese. The greatest hockey player in the world is obese, as is most athletes. We are in a situation where someone who has a perfect blood test and can run a 5K is told to lose 25 pounds by a doctor, based on an outdated system. They are called obese at an unhealthy level. How can that be? In media, we have people calling anybody who isn't the ideal fat and mocking them. We have people praising people battling with anorexia for being the ideal body weight. 42% of women in athletics where appearance is valued deal with eating disorders. Heck, Big Show has been praised lately for having abs. Do we know what he did to get there? It may be dedication, it be may steroids, it may be an ED, we don't know. This is all very messed up. The term fat in itself is not bad, however the connotations it is used in society is pushing into a huge problem. Not to mention the science that is not even clear on what a healthy weight is. Doctors push BMI, while many scientists have condemned it has a horrible measure. In fact there is evidence that weight may be based on set theory, i.e. your weight has an ideal limit for yourself and can vary a bit, but will naturally go to the state it wants. Whether that is deemed fat from society, skinny, or the ideal that is pushed in movies and magazines. Some people just naturally have a "fat" body and it's they can't do anything healthy to fix that. Those are all major issues and when you call someone who is an amazing athlete fat, there is a subtle and damning message you are pushing. My wife was exercising a lot (3-5 times a week), could run a 5k and went to the doctor with a perfect blood test. She was told, thanks to BMI, that she should lose 25 pounds. She did and then some and in the process an eating disorder emerged. Yes, she lost 25+ pounds and was less healthy. Yet, what happened? Everyone she met praised her. "You look great." "You look amazing." "You are my goal", Yes, she got praised for having an eating disorder and being an an unhealthy weight that could only be maintained by purging. This is the society we live in. This is incredibly fucked up. So, when you joke about Chris Hero being fat and saying he should be covered up or whatever, I don't think that is a very good thing to do. I'm sorry if this offends you or you think I am a fucking idiot or a delicate snowflake who shouldn't be a mod and she be mocked. I will step down as a mod, if everybody wants. Whatever. Ridicule me if you want, go for it. The truth is you know someone with an eating disorder, they just aren't talking about it and you may be making it more difficult for them and that is fucked up.