Grimmas

Yeah, filling out the ballot takes time.

People still debate Gretzky vs Orr, stats are there.

I really really do hate watching Inoki, like he fucking sucks, but can anyone really look in the mirror and say he wasn't "great"? This is a serious question at the heart of this. I don't think Inoki was great. He was super charismatic and a good draw and well protected by booking. When in the right setting could pull off a really good match. I don't see how he is great in the ring. Okay, but being put in those positions over a 20+ year period he had a lot of very good and some even great matches. And you say "yeah, but great matches isn't a metric I care about". It's excatly the thing that says "I prefer watching Big Bossman and so I think Big Bossman is better than Inoki" that I see as making the list much more of a crap shoot and "favourites list". I understand this is not a popular view. But it is exactly my issue with the process as it transpired. Like I've kept saying, it is what it is. But the more things go towards that the more crapshoot-y things become to me. Just telling it like I see it. I think there is a big difference between listing categories and saying Inoki is better in this one, Bossman in this one, and someone saying Bossman was great at this stuff that I value more importantly. That is not picking favourites, that is just people using different criteria. "Stuff that I value" feels pretty favourite-y to me. or stuff I value is the criteria someone thinks is important for being great. Replace "stuff I value" with "stuff that is important for someone to be great".

If he stopped the bomb throwing with no selling, then yes. I can't get over the piledriver on the floor as a normal spot in a match.

I really really do hate watching Inoki, like he fucking sucks, but can anyone really look in the mirror and say he wasn't "great"? This is a serious question at the heart of this. I don't think Inoki was great. He was super charismatic and a good draw and well protected by booking. When in the right setting could pull off a really good match. I don't see how he is great in the ring. Okay, but being put in those positions over a 20+ year period he had a lot of very good and some even great matches. And you say "yeah, but great matches isn't a metric I care about". It's excatly the thing that says "I prefer watching Big Bossman and so I think Big Bossman is better than Inoki" that I see as making the list much more of a crap shoot and "favourites list". I understand this is not a popular view. But it is exactly my issue with the process as it transpired. Like I've kept saying, it is what it is. But the more things go towards that the more crapshoot-y things become to me. Just telling it like I see it. I think there is a big difference between listing categories and saying Inoki is better in this one, Bossman in this one, and someone saying Bossman was great at this stuff that I value more importantly. That is not picking favourites, that is just people using different criteria.

We did do stats at the front of the ballot about if you participated during the 2006 vote, when you started watching, and what type of wrestling you considered for the list. Those will be easy to calculate. The other things like podcast hosts and stuff will be interesting too.

I really really do hate watching Inoki, like he fucking sucks, but can anyone really look in the mirror and say he wasn't "great"? This is a serious question at the heart of this. I don't think Inoki was great. He was super charismatic and a good draw and well protected by booking. When in the right setting could pull off a really good match. I don't see how he is great in the ring.

I'm putting Flair in the top 15, and I don't like Flair. Although I do enjoy watching his matches, so it's not like Dylan and Jumbo. I can't think of a wrestler I hate watching that I will be ranking. Although I can't think of a wrestler that is great that I hate watching.

It's not a list of favourites at all. I'm not putting Bret, Muraco in my top 3. There might be a rare person doing favourites, but people are trying to list the greatest ever. Our bias' are affecting rankings, of course, but that can't be help for any list ever.

Part of me enjoys old man Regal more than prime Regal.

The build to Roadblock in Toronto continues. What are they going to do to load up the card to make Steven a happy kid in attendance?

Just to let you know it's not abandoned. GWE has just taken over my free time. New show will be posted after WrestleMania with the reveal of what the four fingers mean.

I think post death is fair. Lots of great Tenryu, Kawada and Mutoh to come. Plus I like the Jamal run and today is pretty good with Akiyama as the star.

Is anyone else putting Waltman on the list? He's easily on mine anywhere from 50-90. He's just an amazing babyface with great offense, selling and hope spots. Add to that he was a great slimy heel too with some subtle offense changes to get that over. He had great tag and singles matches. You think the peak is short, but it was 5 years at minimum. Lots of good stuff post peak (96) too. His X-Pac run is really under rated, especially carrying a team with Kane.

Ok. I just want to get Waltman higher on more ballots than mine.

I'd include some modern action from time to time. Generally not your cup of tea but if you can stomach a random modern WWE or NJ match it could be fun. Parv wants to keep the name, so AJ focused. 1) Steven's Pick 2) Parv's Pick 3) Going forward (AJ & NOAH) 4) AJW Steven & Parv's pick will be AJ, NOAH or AJW.. or the rare Kawada in NJPW match. That's my vote. Lots of room for modern AJPW.

correct.

vs Bret vs Wellington w/ Razor vs Shawn/Diesel are 4.5 or higher If I really looked around there is probably a UWA or WAR or NJPW match that hit it. I think something in the X-Pac run would have (vs Tajiri or The Rock).

Wait.... LA PARK!! http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/l-a-park-645.html?prom_id=37

Wait wait wait wait, did Baba ever book LA Park or minis? AJPW only come on now. booo... misinterpreted. Well bring on the FAT!

Once the results are out, then there will be a thread so people can post their lists if they want too. Want to avoid spoilers for now.

Steven's pick!!!!! Bring on the fat, the minis and LA PARK!

Seconded. His Ambrose, Hero, Christian and Goludst matches all were awesome.

Waltman's Offense and Psychology might need to be higher. Plus only two great matches?

I've thought about this now, so... 1) Flair 2) Hansen 3) Misawa 4) Kawada 5) Tenryu 6) Funk 7) Jumbo 8) Liger 9) Bryan 10) Lawler Ted DiBiase will be 39th.