Grimmas

Triple H vs Booker T at Wrestlemania XIX will always be the gold standard for worst booked main events in company history. Triple H getting super racist for no real reason against a super hot Booker T, then beating him clean in the middle, killing Booker's chances of ever being a real main eventer wasn't just bad booking, it was an extremely shitty thing to do. Triple H would have to start using every bad stereotypical Samoan trope in the book, like right out of Roddy Piper circa 1985, for this to come close. It's worse than just beating Booker T cleanly after building the match with the race issue, which practically required him to lose just to pay off the storyline correctly. He beat Booker T cleanly after laying around for like 15 minutes before covering Booker T and not even allowing him to kick out when pretty much every match ever booked in history has the guy kick out a delayed pin...especially such a long delayed one. So essentially Booker T is portrayed as such an overmatched midcarder who the pedigree absolutely killed. I went back and re-watched that match a few years ago. If you forget about the build and forget that Triple H is who he is, it's a real good match. The pause before the pin is not that bad and makes sense in the context of the match. It's a really good like *** 1/2 match.

When he first arrived in TNA with the camera, I thought he was a top 5 worker in the world. Did all the little things right. He started to speed up too much in tags for me later on. Going through the candidates, sadly he has no shot.

By the way, we are at 8 ballots in the first day. Well done. Those who submitted, what did you think of the forum? Easy enough to navigate and vote in?

Second!

When you limit AJPW in the 90's to only 72 matches, things have to get cut.

It's not on the list, but we will be throwing on some extras to make the last two shows 5 match shows. There is a chance.

Got it, you meant the tag team. Will fix.

Good point. Cena is close to Steamboat/Tito on my list. Will have to hammer this out before the deadline.

Why? I don't follow. Chavo Jr. Chavo Sr. Hector Eddie What needs to be changed?

Teams Nominees America's Most Wanted Badd Company Blue Bloods (Steven Regal & Bobby Eaton) Blue Bloods (Steven Regal & Dave Taylor) Brazos Briscoe Brothers British Bulldogs Bucaneros Crush Girls Demolition Dirty White Boys Doom Double Inoue Dream Team Dudley Boyz Dynamic Duo East-West Connection Enforcers Fabulous Freebirds (Michael Hayes & Jimmy Garvin) Fabulous Freebirds (Terry Gordy, Michael Hayes & Buddy Roberts) Fabulous Ones Faces of Fear Fantastics Footloose Full Blooded Italians (Tracy Smothers & Little Guido) Gangtas Gringo Locos Guerreros Hardy Boyz Hart Foundation Heavenly Bodies (Jimmy Del Ray & Tom Pritchard) Heavenly Bodies (Stan Lane & Tom Pritchard) High Flyers Hollywood Blondes Infernales Invaders (I & III) Islanders Jersey Triad Jumping Bomb Angels Kings of Wrestling Mega Bucks Midnight Express (Bobby Eaton & Stan Lane) Midnight Express (Dennis Condrey & Bobby Eaton) Miracle Violence Connection MNM Money Inc. Moondogs Motor City Machine Guns Nasty Boys New Breed Nightmares North-South Connection PG-13 Powers of Pain Pretty Young Things Rat Pack (Matt Borne & Ted DiBiase) Road Warriors Rock 'n' Roll Express Rockers Rougeau Brothers Samaon Swat Team Sheepherders Sheiks (Jerrry Blackwell & Ken Patera) Sheiks (Jerry Blackwell & Adnan Al-Kaissie) Shield Southern Boys Steiner Brothers Thugz Traumas Villanos Young Bucks Akira Taue & Jumbo Tsuruta Akira Taue & Toshiaki Kawada Akitoshi Saito & Jun Akiyama Arn Anderson & Ole Anderson Arn Anderson & Ric Flair Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard Ashura Hara & Genichiro Tenryu Balls Mahoney & Spike Dudley Barry Windham & Dustin Rhodes Bill Dundee & Jerry Lawler Billy Kidman & Rey Mysterio Jr. Bobby Eaton & Koko Ware Brad Armstrong & Tim Horner Brian Kendrick & Paul London Brian Pillman & Tom Zenk Buddy Rose & Doug Somers Buddy Rose & Ed Wiskowski Buddy Rose & Rip Oliver Chavo Guerrero & Hector Guerrero Christian & Edge Christian York & Joey Matthews Cody Rhodes & Goldust Dan Kroffat & Doug Furnas Dandy & El Satanico Danny Doring & Roadkill Dory Jr. & Terry Funk Dynamite Kansai & Mayumi Ozaki Etsuko Mita & Mima Shimoda Genichiro Tenryu & Jumbo Tsuruta Genichiro Tenryu & Stan Hansen Giant Baba & Jumbo Tsuruta Hayabusa & Jinsei Shinzaki Jack Brisco & Jerry Brisco Jay Youngblood & Ricky Steamboat Jeff Jarrett & Jerry Lawler Jimmy Golden & Robert Fuller Johnny Ace & Steve Williams Jumbo Tsuruta & Yoshiaki Yatsu Junji Hirata & Shinya Hashimoto KENTA & Naomichi Marufuji Kenta Kobashi & Mtsuharu Misawa Kenta Kobashi & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi Kerry Von Erich & Kevin Von Erich Lex Luger & Sting Manami Toyota & Toshiyo Yamada Manny Fernandez & Rick Rude Marcus Bagwell & Too Cold Scorpio Masato Yoshino & Naruki Doi Mike Enos & Wayne Bloom Mr. Fuji & Mr. Saito Nick Bockwinkel & Mr. Saito Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens Owen Hart & Yokozuna Rick Martel & Tony Garea Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas Riki Choshu & Yoshiaki Yatsu Rob Van Dam & Sabu Scott Armstrong & Steve Armstrong Ted DiBiase & Stan Hansen Ted DiBiase & Steve Williams

GWE Nominees Abdullah the Butcher Abdullah Kobayashi Ace Rockwell Adnan Al-Kaissie Adrian Adonis Adrian Street AJ Styles Aja Kong Akira Hokuto Akira Maeda Akira Nogami Akira Taue Akira Tozawa Akitoshi Saito Alan Sargeant Alberto del Rio Alex Shelley Alex Wright Alexander Otsuka Amazing Red Andre the Giant Andrei Kopylov Angel Azteca Animal Hamaguchi Antonio Inoki Arisa Nakajima Arkangel dela Muerte Arn Anderson Art Barr Ashura Hara Atlantis Atsushi Onita Austin Aries Austin Idol Azumi Hyuga B-Boy Bam Bam Bigelow Barbaro Cavernario Baron Scicluna Barry Windham Batista Bestia Salvaje Biff Busick Big Boss Man Big Show Bill Dundee Billy Graham Billy Robinson Bison Kimura Black Terry Blue Panther Bob Armstrong Bob Backlund Bob Holly Bob Orton Jr. Bob Sapp Bobby Bass Bobby Eaton Bobby Fish Bobby Fulton Bobby Heenan Bobby Jaggers Booker T Brad Armstrong Brazo de Oro Bret Hart Brian Kendrick Brian Knobbs Brian Pillman Brock Lesnar Bruiser Brody Bruno Sammartino Bubba Ray Dudley Buddy Landell Buddy Rogers Buddy Rose Bull Nakano Bull Pain Butch Reed Buzz Sawyer Candy Okutsu Carl Greco Carl Ouillet Carlos Colon Cassandro Caswell Martin Cesaro Chase Stevens Chavo Guerrero Sr. Chavo Guerrero Jr. Chic Cullen Chicky Starr Chico Che Chigusa Nagayo Chikayo Nagashima Chris Adams Chris Benoit Chris Candido Chris Colt Chris Hamrick Chris Hero Chris Jericho Chris Masters Chris Michaels Christian Christopher Daniels Ciclon Ramirez Cien Caras CIMA Clive Myers CM Punk Col. DeBeers Colt Cabana Combat Toyoda Curt Hennig Cutie Suzuki CW Anderson Daisuke Ikeda Daisuke Sekimoto Damien Wayne Dan Kroffat Dan Maff Daniel Bryan Danny Spivey Dave Taylor Davey Boy Smith Davey Richards David Von Erich Dean Allmark Dean Ambrose Dean Malenko Debbie Malenko Demus 3:16 Dennis Condrey Derrick King Devil Masami Diamond Dallas Page Dick Murdoch Dick Slater Dick Togo Dolph Ziggler Dominic Denucci Don Fuji Don Muraco Dory Funk Jr. Dos Caras Doug Furnas Doug Somers Doug Williams Dr. Cerebro Dr. Wagner Jr. Dragon Kid Dream Machine Drew Gulak Dump Matsumoto Dustin Rhodes Dusty Rhodes Dutch Mantell Dynamite Kansai Dynamite Kid Eddie Edwards Eddie Gilbert Eddie Guerrero Eddie Kingston Edge El Braceo El Brazo El Canek El Dandy El Faraon El Hijo del Santo El Mesias El Samurai El Satanico Emilio Charles Jr. Eric Embry Ernie Ladd Espanto Jr. Espectrito Felino Fidel Sierra Fit Finlay Flash Flanagan Franz Schumann Franz van Buyten Freelance Fritz Von Erich Fuerza Guerrera Fujita Jr. Hayato Gary Albright Gary Young Gedo Genichiro Tenryu Genki Horiguchi George Wells Giant Baba Gilbert Cesca Gino Hernandez Go Shiozaki Goldberg Gorgeous George Gran Apache Gran Hamada Great Kabuki Great Sasuke Greg Gagne Greg Valentine Haku Hans Schmidt Harley Race Hayabusa Hector Garza Hector Guerrero Hido Hiroshi Hase Hiroshi Tanahashi Hiroyoshi Tenzan Hisakatsu Oya Hombre Bala Homicide Honky Tonk Man Hulk Hogan Huracan Castillo Jr. Ian Rotten Ikuto Hidaka Invader I Invader III Io Shirai Iron Sheik Isamu Teranishi Ivan Koloff Ivan Putski Jack Brisco Jackie Fargo Jackie Sato Jacques Rougeau Jado Jaguar Yokota Jake Roberts James Mason James Storm Jamie Dundee Jamie Noble Javier Cruz Javier Llanes Jay Briscoe Jay Strongbow Jay Youngblood JBL Jeff Hardy Jeff Jarrett Jerry Blackwell Jerry Estrada Jerry Lawler Jerry Lynn Jerry Saggs Jerry Stubbs Jerry Valiant Jesse Ventura Jim Breaks Jim Brunzell Jim Cornette Jim Duggan Jimmy Garvin Jimmy Golden Jimmy Havoc Jimmy Jacobs Jimmy Rave Jimmy Snuka Jimmy Valiant Jinsei Shinzaki Joe Cortez Joe Malenko Joey Ryan John Cena John Morrison John Tatum John Tenta Johnny Ace Johnny Gargano Johnny Rodz Johnny Saint Jonny Storm Jose Lothario Judy Martin Jumbo Tsuruta Jun Akiyama Jun Kasai Jushin Liger Juventud Guerrera Kamala Kana Kantaro Hoshino Karl Gotch Katsuhiko Nakajima Katsumi Usuda Katsuyori Shibata Kaz Hayashi Kazuchika Okada Kazunari Murakami Kazuo Yamazaki Kazushi Sakuraba Kazuyuki Fujita Keiji Mutoh Keith Haward Ken Joyce Ken Patera Ken Shamrock Kendo Nagasaki Kengo Kimura Kenichiro Arai Kenny Omega Kensuke Sasaki KENTA Kenta Kobashi Kerry Von Erich Kevin Steen Kevin Sullivan Kevin Von Erich Kid Kash Killer Khan Kiyoshi Tamura Kofi Kingston Kohei Sato Koji Kanemoto Koki Kitahara Koko B Ware Konan Big Kota Ibushi Kotaro Suzuki Kung Fu Kuniaki Kobayashi Kurt Angle Kyle Matthews Kyle O'Reilly Kyoko Inoue La Fiera LA Park Lanny Poffo Larry Zbyszko Leo Burke Les Kellett Lex Luger Lioness Asuka Little Guido Lizmark Lou Thesz Low Ki Luke Harper Mad Dog Vachon Magnum TA Makoto Hashi Manami Toyota Manny Fernandez Marc Mero Marcus Alexander Bagwell Mariko Yoshida Mark Briscoe Mark Henry Mark Rocco Marty Jannetty Marty Jones Marty Scurll Masa Chono Masa Fuchi Masa Saito Masaaki Mochizuki Masahito Kakihara Masakatsu Funaki Masanobu Kurisu Masashi Aoyagi Masato Tanaka Masato Yoshino Mascarita Dorada Mascarita Sagrada Masked Superstar Matt Borne Matt Hardy Matt Sydal Mayumi Ozaki Megumi Kudo Meiko Satomura MEN'S Teoh Michael Elgin Michael Hayes Mick Foley Mick McManus Mighty Inoue Miguel Perez Jr. Mike Awesome Mike Bailey Mike Jackson Mike Quackenbush Mike Rotunda Mikey Whipwreck Mil Mascaras Milano Collection A.T. Mima Shimoda Minoru Suzuki Minoru Tanaka Mistico Mitsuharu Misawa Mitsuhiro Matsunaga Mocho Cota Mr. Fuji Mr. Gannosuke Mr. Pogo Mr. Wrestling II MS-1 Munenori Sawa Naoki Sano Naomichi Marufuji Naoya Ogawa Naruki Doi Natsuki Taiyo Necro Butcher Negro Casas Negro Navarro Neville New Jack Nick Bockwinkel Nigel McGuinness Nobuhiko Takada Norman Smiley Octagon Ole Anderson One Man Gang Original Sheik Osamu Nishimura Otto Wanz Owen Hart Pat O'Connor Pat Patterson Pat Roach Pat Tanaka Paul Jones Paul London Paul Orndorff Pequeno Pierroth Perro Aguayo Perro Aguayo Jr. Pete Roberts Pez Whatley Phil Hickerson Pierroth Jr. Pimpinela Escarlata Pirata Morgan Prince Devitt Psicosis Rampage Brown Randy Orton Randy Savage Ranger Ross Raven Ray Gonzalez Ray Steele Ray Stevens Raymond Rougeau Rayo de Jalisco Jr. Red Bastien Rene Lasartesse Rey Hechicero Rey Mysterio Jr. Ric Flair Rick Martel Rick Rude Rick Steiner Ricky Fuyuki Ricky Marvin Ricky Morton Ricky Santana Ricky Steamboat Ricochet Riki Choshu Rikidozan Rip Rogers Rob Van Dam Robert Fuller Robert Gibson Roddy Piper Roderick Strong Roman Reigns Ron Garvin Ron Simmons Ron Starr Rufus R. Jones Rusev Rush Ryo Saito Ryuji Ito Sabu Sami Callihan Sami Zayn Samoa Joe Sangre Chicana Sasha Banks Satoshi Kojima Savio Vega Scott Hall Scott Lost Scott Norton Scott Steiner Sean Waltman Seiji Sakaguchi Seth Rollins Sgt. Slaughter Shane Douglas Shane McMahon Shane Sewell Shaun Tempers Shawn Michaels Sheamus Shigeo Miyato Shingo Takagi Shinjiro Ohtani Shinobu Kandori Shinsuke Nakamura Shinya Hashimoto Shiro Koshinaka Sho Funaki Silver King Slim J Solar Spike Dudley Spiros Arion Stan Hansen Stan Lane Stan Stasiak Steve Austin Steve Corino Steve Grey Steve Keirn Steve Veidor Steve Williams Sting Super Astro Super Crazy Super Delphin Super Dragon Super Medico Super Porky Survival Tobita Susumu Yokosuka Suwama TAKA Michinoku Takao Omori Takashi Ishikawa Takashi Sugiura Takeshi Morishima Takeshi Ono Tamon Honda Tank Tarzan Goto Tatsuhito Takaiwa Tatsumi Fujinami Tatsuo Nakano Ted DiBiase Terry Funk Terry Gordy Terry Rudge Terry Taylor Tetsuhiro Kuroda Tetsuya Naito The Barbarian The Destroyer The Patriot The Rock The Sandman The Undertaker Tibor Szakacs Tiger Dalibar Singh Tiger Mask Timothy Thatcher Tito Santana Todd Morton Togi Makabe Tom Prichard Tom Zenk Tommaso Ciampa Tommy Dreamer Tommy End Tommy Rich Tommy Rogers Tomoaki Honma Tomohiro Ishii Tonga Kid Tony Anthony Tony Garea Tony St. Clair Too Cold Scorpio Tor Kamata Toru Tanaka Toshiaki Kawada Toshiyo Yamada Tracy Smothers Trauma I Trauma II Triple H Trish Stratus Tsuyoshi Kikuchi Tsuyoshi Kohsaka Tully Blanchard Ultimate Warrior Ultimo Dragon Ultimo Guerero Vader Verne Gagne Vic Faulkner Villano III Villano IV Vince McMahon Virus Volk Han Vordell Walker Wahoo McDaniel Waldo von Erich Will Ospreay William Regal Wing Kanemura Wolfie D YAMATO Yoji Anjoh Yokozuna Yoshiaki Fujiwara Yoshiaki Yatsu Yoshihiro Tajiri Yoshihiro Takayama Yoshihisa Yamamoto Yoshihito Sasaki Yoshinari Ogawa Yoshinobu Kanemaru Yuji Nagata Yuji Okabayashi Yujiro Yamamoto Yuki Ishikawa Yumi Ikeshita Yumiko Hotta Zack Sabre Jr. Zoltan Boscik

The time has finally arrived to begin voting. Please read the whole post before following the link to vote. Rules Deadline: WrestleMania 32 1) You can only vote for wrestlers and teams that have been nominated. The list of nominees are below in the two following posts. 2) Each wrestler or team can only appear once in your list. Please ensure that is true, as it will save the team lots of time compiling the results. 3) If you vote in the wrestlers list, the list has to contain 100 wrestlers. If you vote for the team list, the list has to contain 25 teams. You can skip either list. Helpful Voting Hints 1) Please copy the names from the lists below. When compiling the data all names will be changed to what is listed, so any misspellings or alter egos you use, will just slow down the whole process. 2) Prepare your list before voting. There is no save and come back later feature on the forum, so preparation is key. 3) There are optional questions on the forum. The first page will ask questions about when you started watching wrestling and what wrestling you watch. Skip those if you want. In the actually voting section each pick is followed by a "Why?" and "Recommended Matches" spot. Those two questions will be used in the results thread, but are optional. 4) Have fun. This has been a long process and putting out the list is the fun part. That's about it. Go on and vote! Results will arrive in April. VOTE HERE!!

Can't be better than the vegetarian picnic burger at Fresh in Toronto.

I'm having real trouble finding this match. Go to Ditch's site and download all Hokuto, Kong, Nakano matches from 90-96. Watch those.

It's interesting that G is by far the least important category in my view.

Maybe not. I liked almost all of those matches, and some of them a lot. Particularly the Dory, Terry No DQ, Dutch barbed wire, Dundee LLT and Idol/Freebirds bouts. I didn't particularly care for the Savage stuff much. I may have also not framed things in the proper context -- I found it all underwhelming as far as making a case for Lawler as an all timer, not as a worker who I enjoy and can appreciate. And after reading around, it doesn't actually seem like MANY people have those Dundee matches at 5-stars (in fact I haven't seen anyone actually drop that rating on any of them so ...) ***** in my book: Jerry Lawler vs Bill Dundee 1985-12-30 (#4 match all-time) Jerry Lawler vs Bill Dundee 1983-06-06 (#24 match all-time)

He will.

It's neat and interesting, but does not make him a better wrestler than anyone else to me. Watch some more Bryan please, would love for him to shoot up your list, he really is a Flair equal.

Lou Thesz is an index too, isn't he? Am I missing something? EDIT: It's been great to talk about all these guys. Hopefully this process can be improved upon for future projects.

I don't want to undersell the greatness of this joke.

Good question. Kobashi is top 20 as well, probably above Martel. I think Kobashi is like Rey, though. Where you don't think of him as just a babyface.

Discuss here.

In the Steamboat vs Bret thread I mentioned that I would have Martel above Steamboat. I think Martel is the best wrestling babyface in history. Thus he is above Steamboat, who is strictly a babyface candidate. Thinking about it, I have Rey Mysterio above both Martel and Steamboat, but I think there is other factors to Rey besides being a strictly babyface. I somehow look at guys in Japan/Mexico differently than in the US, as terms of roles. For me, probably Top 10: Rey Jr. Top 20: Martel Top 25: Steamboat Top 40: Tito Santana Top 40: Ricky Morton So, how are you ranking your babyface workers?

You're ranking 5 guys because you like them regardless of whether there may be better wrestlers out there. if someone else finds a wrestler's historical context adds to their matches then that's very relevant. Bottom five go to personal favourites, rest of list is on merit. We are talking to top 15 guys and saying one faced hall of famers and one faced modern guys as a criteria seems odd. George Steele probably has a better list of opponents than Daniel Bryan does too.

Those stories are irrelevant. Who is the better wrestler?