soup23

Still watch a good bit of modern wrestling and welcome it. I do think modern wrestling discussion in general has been lacking on message boards that I frequent. I have said this before and stand by it that on other message boards I go on (F4W and VOW mainly), the discussion is more about upcoming matches and events and we never even get to the NOW of the equation much less the immediate past. For instance, I watched the Mercury Rising Show last week and enjoyed it a good deal and had some thoughts on the pacing and everything in particular the way Thatchers arc was displayed watching the shows in retrospect compared to the live reaction to those type of storyline driven type matches that seem destined to have less crowd heat. From that, there could be interesting discussions on how that lens affects the overall performance and who should shoulder the blame. However, I didn't feel inclined to do so because in the fast paced world of modern wrestling now, it felt really dated and a thing of the past whereas stuff like AWE's Homegrown show and the latest Progress show were now being discussed. I definitely do crave a forum whereas reaction and discussion can be made on shows that are still current but yet new threads could be examined for someone that is just catching up on Evolve for the year and watching the January shows for instance. Twitter can be entertaining to me (to a degree) but I don't think it laments itself to the bottom line type of discussion I do seek out in wrestling. That is what really drove me to the indies in the first place and quenched my thirst for wrestling in 2001. Also, I am a matches guy and I love Shoe's talking point that there are more ***1/2 matches now than at any point in wrestling history that is on tape, however there is less ***** matches and really high end stuff than in the 1980's and 1990's. That is something I agree with and shows the thirst I have and what I like to accomplish from watching older footage and staying current.

Caught Negro vs. Volador apuestas last week and had some pretty major issues with the pacing. I know the style of these matches has moved towards big moves and extreme escalation but I didn't get a sense of that win at all costs measurement and desperation that I would hope for with something like the hair on the line. The moves were still executed well which is nice considering Casas' age and the spottiness that is Volador at times, but it really soured me on the current apuestas style and made me appreciate the Atlantis matches more for still keeping me invested and biting on the near falls.

Another thing I was surprised to see was Bryan on only 142 ballots considering I know for a while he was the only man to be on every ballot.

Sorry I meant disgusting in the sense that it is a really big jump from the others we have seen in the top 10 so far.

Only person I was the high vote on was my #1.

Misawa's average vote is disgusting.

In the same boat.

All three were really close and forced me to do a nitpick comparison side by side. In the end, I weighted things like being the ace and Misawa having absolute classics with Jumbo and Akiyama ahead of Kawada's output in the 80's and in the NJ vs. AJ feud. I think with Kobashi it is interesting to look at the 89-2005 comparison from both as they both were at a really high level for that entire time. Doing a year by year comparison, it was tough for me to have Kawada ahead on many years besides 1989, 1990, 1991, 1994, and maybe 1995. I feel strongly that Kobashi is ahead in 97-99 although I am sure others see that towards Kawada due to Kobashi's excess. However, I don't see as much egregious excess from Kobashi as Kawada displayed in the 6/6/97 Misawa match and the 5/2/99 Hase match. 2001 is a really nice year for Kawada with Kobashi out on injury but 2003-2004 feel dominant in Kobashi favor although again if you are someone that thinks the overall style regressed in the mid 90's, you are likely to have a different take.

Who were the two people that voted for Tenryu but not Kawada. One of those odd things. Kawada was my #13 and that is right around where his average shook out at.

The King is Dead

Thanks man, it was a fun show to record with just free form thoughts.

With Eddy dropping, the remaining top 11 were all within my top 16 and if Lawler were to drop at #11 ( I had him 16), then the top 10 would all be comprised for my top 13 which I am happy about.

Guess podcast bias was creeping in as listening to all of the GWE pods, almost everyone had Tenryu ahead of Jumbo so I expected the same result on the overall list.

I figured Vader would have a good chance at being on every ballot, 148/151 is not bad. Does anyone want to speak up about leaving him or Steamer off their ballot and why?

Ring smarts will only get you so far in wrestling.

Another response: Wow, Taker getting hated on, with the premise that he didn't draw the most money therefore he wasn't the best? Hogan and Warrior were massive draws and they weren't very good wrestlers. Fuckin' Arn Anderson is a top wrassler and surely didn't draw that much outside of the Horsemen, and only if Flair was booked.

I have enjoyed posting this list in weird places I also frequent online, here was some feedback on a phish message board. Brahs_Al_Ghul said: chaddie151 said: ecelectric said: chaddie151 said:A message board I am a moderator of is counting down the Greatest Wrestler Ever which was a two year project, here is the countdown to the top 100 http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/33910-greatest-wrestler-ever-the-list/ That list appears to be randomly generated. It wasn't, Nominations took place for eighteen months and any wrestler could be nominated along with three match reviews. From that, a ton of people watched footage and debated the merits of the candidates. 151 people cast ballots from 1-100 and then the final lists were compiled. Undertaker at 84? I stopped scrolling after that nonsense Too high or too low? » ridemehigh1206 (OP) • Tue Apr 26, 2016 05:45 pm 'Taker is top 10 all-time. Not debatable.

Gonna guess Vader and Steamer as the two remaining that didn't get a #1 vote

4 #1 votes for Savage did surprise me.

Good post CapitalTTruth.

Will's selling vs. Sabre was some of the best selling he has done. I wasn't real high on the Ricochet match even looking at it from an insane highspot perspective. Will is an amazing talent that has already become the next IT guy on the indies and beyond. His selling vs. Kushida in there Invasion Attack match was really impressive as he does a no hand handspring which was amazing to see. Both Tommy End and Marty Scrull have been a bit of a struggle for me. I don't think either is bad but I haven't really seen them elevate themselves up and portray themselves in a hate filled environment that really gets me invested in the match they are competed in. A minor example but something like Fred Yehi vs. Hot Sauce from Evolve 53 had more intense staredowns, grappling and striking than most of the Scurll and End stuff. The Villain is also a gimmick that I think is inauthentic and trying too hard whereas Progress has more natural heels in Paul Robinson and Zack Gibson. Thatcher's weekend overall probably looks better on tape and may look better in retrospect because of the burial he received from the live attendees. I thought his match with Scurll and Callihan were both good and really nice story driven matches with him heavily focusing on his wounded arm. I don't think he had a spectacular WM weekend by any means, but I do think it is overblown how much of a disaster it really was and I am not too enthused about the current angle with him laying down the Evolve championship.

Had Akiyama at 27 and Taue at 26 on ballot. Awesome.

Congrats on 10 years Joe, excited to listen to these to break up the GWE talk.

Deans explanation being "It's (insert wrestler name here)" was great stuff.

Excited to hear where you youngsters placed guys at.