soup23

Can we have a courtesy well-being check in for MattD after Charles' #96?

What a wild thread to catch up on after you have been away a week. I really enjoyed the defense of Quack at #6.

New directions and possibilities is why I have talked to Loss privately about what I see the shift in wrestling discussion becoming more of a goodreads type environment with numerous subsets. When the Mid-South set was going on, I felt like I was really missing out being a lowly college student that was focusing on finishing school as early as possible and didn't have any disposable income. That sense of "everyone" congregating in my wrestling stratosphere has decreased dramatically in recent years. The yearbooks ending in the 90's really felt like a project I was able to pour into and hear other people's thoughts as they went through the journey with me. Those threads are evergreen to a degree which is nice, but the thrill of trying to beat PeteF in finishing 1990 is lost a bit. Now, I look at the people I communicate with on a semi-regular basis and see the PTB guys committed to WWE, Brad watching more ROH, Parv doing random dives on different guys and us coming together for WCW shows, Loss finding his place post 90's, MattD churning out tons of lucha reviews, and Dylan mainly focusing on the modern product with his reflections on twitter. It is a wide, expansive world and it makes me overwhelmed/disheartened on where I fit in. All of those avenues above have merit, but I can't see myself wanting to attach to a singular one. This is why I went out and watched a good amount of IWA-MS shows from 2001 onward. I have reviews typed up for 20 shows and have slowly rolled them out on PTBN. The landscape in helping running the back end of a website has also made some artificial stakes about what my focus is. This is the only negative byproduct that has come out of PTBN and the friendships I have obtained from the creation of that site. My IWA-MS show reviews get a minuscule of the hits an article talking about Roman Reigns would receive. While PTBN is and was never viewed as a revenue opportunity, I do think it is a natural inclination for a person to hope that the writing they present is seen and viewed by as many individuals as possible to a certain extent. This really brings in the balance of how much time and effort I should commit to a passion project like the IWA-MS stuff. On the other hand, BAHU is a relic voice from the past but someone that still carries weight as an FMW "expert" and I commend him for carving out that niche a long time ago. It has helped Loss, me and others gain perspective while combing through the stuff like the tremendous 1999 FMW run. My hope is that if I did continue the IWA-MS stuff, someone would find it in 10 years and want to hear about an early CM Punk. I would be able to provide that retrospective coverage where then the viewer could decide which tract to take from that point forward. Back to PTBN and my point in life in general, it has become more about the friendships I've built than the actual coverage or articles that are getting posted. I do hope me and Parv can make it to Greed 2001 but that looks increasingly like it will be 2015 before that happens. I have no idea where life/interest in wrestling will be then. This rambling mess has been me spilling some prevalent thoughts that I have had recently. WWE really has no interest for me right now and at this point it might be more severe than at any point in my life before. To steal VOW's gimmick, I was thinking of my interest in Shane vs. Taker on the way home the other day and I honestly am at a 1 on the excitement level. I understand others that are intrigued and have accepted that, but I am defeated when it comes to that product currently. Other things like Evolve interest me in current wrestling, but there is such a rush to find the next best thing and I do think it is weird to a degree that on Evolve reviews and other Japanese indy shows, individuals casually throw out ****1/2 on matches and then will have conclusions at the end that this was a pretty good show. The rush for the next big match or event can be contagious but also feel hollow at a point. Fred Yehi vs. Drew Gulak from Evolve 56 has been in my mind for a week since it happened. That is a match I wouldn't call a MOTYC but it is a match that needs to be evaluated and poured over to a degree. The art of a ***1/2 match being seen as a success on a card is evaporating. The VOW board is really good at generating some foreign discussion and has a mix of new voices, but one critique I would have is that a lot of individuals on there seem to be concerned on what is next. An example of that is the EVolve and ROH threads which are littered with excitement of upcoming matches that are announced and then those matches come and go with the same voices not mentioning what the end result or analysis was on the match that had them so hyped to begin with. I hope this doesn't come off as too much old man get off my lawn speech as I do genuinely think there is more "good" matches on tape in 2016 than at any other point, but I do think the past and some retrospection can be celebrated at times.

Really digging the podcast, great diversity and hearing Timothy go from talking about Scott Lost to Ernie Ladd in a matter of minutes was really fun to see the depth of wrestling footage we really have in the past 35 years or so.

Enjoyed the ROH review as that show was really good top to bottom and complimented with the Evolve review, it was a real diverse display of indy wrestling.

Buddy Rose hosting an interview segment called the Grotto feels like a big missed opportunity for late 80's WWF.

Finished mine and I actually did a tag ballot on the fly which will probably be horrible to look back on. Glad to have this completed and will take a little break from the GWE forum until the results start rolling out.

Excellent News here.

The amount of direct crossovers on this half was really surprising and a fun coincidence.

Damn that was a great list. Thanks

That is ridiculous and seems like a much more conservative ruling from the Appeals Court than anything Campbell ruled upon presiding over the case.

Really don't subscribe to Fujinami as outstanding in the 1990's. In the WAR feud mentioned, he was behind Chono, Hashimoto, Tenryu, and Hara in my eyes. I definitely think he was still good in that feud and in a sprinkling of other stuff throughout the decade, but outstanding feels like a reach and I still think that becomes a prickly path where you could point to someone like the 92 Rumble and WrestleWar 1990 and say Flair was outstanding in the 1990's (don't think that was the case either). I don't view Fujinami's 1990's as a negative against him, but it also wasn't weighed as a positive for me so therefore it became a neutral effect and Fujinami landed at 21 on my list exclusively for 1978-1988.

I have heard Pete say this before and it is something that I agree with that in current day, there is more good matches that occur and we can see on tape than at any other previous point in wrestling history, however, there isn't as many absolute top tier matches as in other eras. In compiling my GWE list, the second area is really tough to acomplish as I would consider that ****3/4 or above in a ranking. I only have around 100 matches in history that reach that level so someone like Christian and even a Tracy Smothers having a ton of stuff that is between ***1/2 and ****1/4 is a very good indication of how consistent and good they are as a worker overall in my eyes. It could be too much focus on the direct output but I do think with almost every candidate there is matches that can be considered nearly universally good that can justify the positioning on a list. An exception to that could be someone like Rufus Jones.

25 minutes of ground work #100 Don Muraco..... turned off . . . . . . . kidding, looking forward to devouring all of this

I still don't understand how even if Hogan's original claim was to remove the footage was because of the racial slurs and not the sexual acts why that still doesn't justify his claim that Gawker published footage of himself without his consent and was in the wrong by doing so.

Just finished Evolve 56 Sami Callihan vs. TJ Perkins- *** Good opener that really started working for me when Sami started focusing on the leg. The finish surprised me a good bit but this was a match that got better as it went along and looking back over the card, it set a nice tone for the show as it was the only match with heavily focused leg work. Jack Gallows vs. Ethan Page- ** I guess Page is back to being fun loving and having fun. This was a good showcase for him without completely selling Gallows short. This served its purpose. Fred Yehi vs. Drew Gulak- ****1/4 A brilliant mostly technical masterpiece. I really thought this was one of the more engaging chess matches I have seen in a while with some neat innovation. My favorite spot involved an early pin attempt from Gulak with Yehi getting up and going right into a rear naked choke in a smooth as silk sequence that I had never seen done before. The finish really helped establish Yehi as a mainstay and this was just a pleasure to watch. Chris Hero vs. Tracy Williams- **** Another incredible match and worked in a different way. This was a bomb throwing type match with some deadly strikes, but it also did a unique job of not going over into the overkill territory. I can see some being annoyed at Hero kicking out at one on the piledriver but I liked that spot in this instance as it was the first bit of high impact damage that he has sustained. This match featured a finish that was almost assured but the destination helped both men coming out of it. Hero really is a great wrestler that has a resume of great matches with a ton of people in the past 15 years. Team Tremendous vs. The Premiere Athlete Brand- ** 1/2 Pallate cleanser match. Tremendous has a fun enough gimmick and PAB is a good enough unit even though they still go into their spotty tendencies too often and they feel more like a ROH tag team stuck in Evolve environment. Zack Sabre Jr. vs. Johnny Gargano- **** I liked this quite a bit too. I have been foreign to ZS JR. a bit as his selling of looking dazed and aloof sometimes strikes me as odd. This match featured some sublime selling from Gargano that was milked up to the end where he couldn't even accept a handshake because the pain his arm was in. The arm work and techinical wizardly of Sabre can't be denied and the work that he did off of Gargano's strikes was effective enough in showing he had to overcome some adversity and wasn't just someone that could put on a lot of painful looking arm submissions. I really look forward with the series of matches Sabre has lined up. Timothy Thatcher vs. Matt Riddle- *** The finish was abrupt here but for a card overall, I liked what they did here. We had seen three great matches that felt completely different so having a RINGS style main event that is over in sub 10 minutes felt like a calculated risk and didn't detract me from wanting to see additional stuff with these two in the future. I do wish the headbutt Thatcher connected at the end would have hit more cleanly but the low blow and ambiguity over whether it was intentional or not created a good mystery going forward and I don't think it really damaged Riddle that much in the way Brock getting caught in the first lost vs. Mir didn't damage him. Overall, an outstanding show with a ton of variety and it sped along at a briskly pace. EVOLVE Is my top indy right now and that is with me being really high on ROH currently also.

I did watch the Kyoko match from 8/25/93 around a week or so ago and found it impressive too. That show overall was really great with that and the Kong vs. Kansai match.

Wonderful post, made me seek out the Masami vs. Kandori match for tonight which has me all sorts of pumped up.

I meant to ask you the other night whether you were voting Rose or not when we got down to our top 7 and by process of elimination, I figured out who you had left.

Really interested in who your overall #1 was and where Tamura ended up on your list when the final vote is in Elliott.

You have no idea how nervous I am reading those names because I know they will be butchered. Yoshihisa Yamamoto is a particular tongue twister. Thanks everyone for the words so far. I did like the sense of accomplishment that I felt at finishing our list reading to each other and it helped cap off my personal journey of going through the GWE process.

I have had no problems streaming Progress and Chikara through their roku channels.

Thanks, I added it into the first post. I would be interested if looking at the list makes it apparent that there is an over saturation in the market. Subscribing to all of those services would run well over $100 a month.

I thought a comprehensive list would be effective for individuals wanting to address all options: WWE Network - $9.99/month New Japan World - 999 yen (currently $8.96 USD)/month NWA Classics - $8.99/month Highspots Wrestling Network (shoots, CZW, IWA-MS, etc) - $9.99/month Chikaratopia - $7.99/month Progress - $7.50/month Beyond Wrestling - $9.99/month Stardom World - $4.99/month IPW:UK - $7.95/month ROH Ringside Membership - $7.99/month Revolution Pro Wrestling - $8.49/month AIW Wrestling - $7.99/month AAW Wrestling - $7.99/month CZW - $9.99/month Smash - $7.49/month Insane Championship Wrestling - $6.99/month Please let me know if I am missing anything.

I voted for higher average vote. I am not crazy about the most ballots for simple reason as I feel that has natural advantages for mostly U S workers. In the other areas (joshi, lucha, WOS, etc), numerous people have announced they are refraining from voting for one group of candidates or another.