MJH

I always thought Stephanie's 9/11 comments were less her comparing the attack to her father's steroid trial... but rather her using the steroid trial as the best example from her life that a family comes closer together under hardship and America would bundle together and become stronger? It might not have been the best way to make the point, but I don't recall her calling it "just like when they attacked my dad!" Bradshaw's remarks are far worse...

He's the heel anyway.

I wasn't condoning Cena's part in that at all. My point was Mickie should've known all along that it would be her to bite the bullet. I'm sure Cena knows and would admit it's a wrong way to carry on if pressed on the matter, but he also knows that in all probability he can get away with it as long as he's where he is and the girl isn't a McMahon family member.

"...when the Lakers beat the Kings in May" is The Rock's best punch-line from that run surely?

The whole "Piggie James" thing was ridiculous... but if you're Mickie James and you hook up with the top star in the company on the road knowing he's got a long-time girlfriend at home, I mean how do you think it's going to play out? I'm not condoning the "punishment" if it was for that, but it's a stupid call on her part, too.

And for the first few weeks of his feud with Orton everything was going really well. The MSG angle in particular could've been the key part in a star-making turn but they quickly lost steam in the writing and then Orton threw a fit and now he's back where he was before.

So has Finlay officially taken Mark Henry's spot?

I agree that Punk and Miz should be elevated but whose the babyface ace after Cena? Generally companies are built around their top babyfaces and I can't see Punk or Miz becoming that. Cena's not going to be around that long, it's a wonder he hasn't gotten injured more given his horrible bumping.

Eh, the Shawn "not having pure wrestling talent" thing doesn't make much sense to me. He basically never had a strong moveset, sure, but from pretty much the earliest footage we have of him as a young guy he was hitting the stuff he did do in a smoother and more polished way than a lot of the guys around him. Someone who doesn't have the pure talent, their execution is a lot messier especially early. Actually, you could make the case that Shawn had far more pure talent than Bret, a lot of Bret's stuff doesn't look so good when he was younger. He certainly wasn't the athlete Shawn was. Bret wasn't Taue's level of overachievement (another "not a pure talent" guy if ever there was one) but he hardly screamed great potential from the get-go the way that Shawn or Owen did.

Is it really that out of reach for a wrestling company to portray a gay character in something resembling an intelligent matter? I think the problem isn't so much as "he's gay... that's sick" but rather who'd want to see a guy come on stage and freak someone out by squirting whats supposedly semen all over himself. Even soaps run gay storylines all the time and never seem to offend people and god knows their writing isn't anything special.

I would assume "very lewd" is a quote given to Dave rather than anything on his end, I mean he lives in San Francisco, right? And to play Devil's Advocate, I'm not sure an executive's wife would be enamoured with a girl giving a wrestler a hand job in the middle of a club, either, if we say it was that. And if it was just kissing, I still don't think it would've been the smartest thing to take them up on being homophobic. Someone with more pull could perhaps do it in a diplomatic fashion, but Jordan's at a "shut up and do what you're told or get fired" level, unfortunately for him.

Can someone just comfirm that the "Holy Demon Army" name for Kawada and Taue is a westernism or the origins of the name?

Yeah, I'd find the insinuations of Shawn being bisexual a bit of a stretch. I'm not saying it's out of the question that he might've been, but I think quite clearly a reference to drug use. I'm pretty sure that's been acknowledged on his DVD sets, though, so it's nothing I'm amazed at hear JR say. And, actually, I'm more with him than against him on the shoot interviews and money-saving front. If he's going around telling young wrestlers to save their money and get solid financial advice, then that's a good thing. And, come on, shoot interviews are a cash-in and are not really something you watch expecting an objective perspective on things. That doesn't mean they're altogether false and full of nothing but lies and slander, but I'd hardly use one individual interview from a Scott Steiner, say, as my source of information on something.

If Silva'd kept the schtick up the entire fight it would've been glorious. I highly doubt people would've booed him had he kept it up for four rounds and then killed Maia in the fifth, instead of just giving up. His fight against Griffin is still the greatest thing in company history, and he's still a star, him vs. GSP will do a lot of buys (assuming he can make weight and I definitely share people's doubts about that) and fuck the haters round two was beautiful. Then again the UFC isn't PPV over here so I wasn't paying $50 or whatever for it. I wish I could've seen Dana's face after the fight though, the shot after Mir lost at 111 was fantastic.

Well consider me told, Loss... But yeah as kjh said being gay isn't any big deal here. I know plenty of daily mass-goers and I've only ever heard them supporting gay rights. In fact I recall the most devoutly catholic person I know, back before Benedict was declared pope a few years back, talking about how shameful it was that one of the higher-ups on the papal chain (he being a top contender for being pope) was quoted as saying he "wants to wash the streets of Rome clean of all men with long hair, ear rings etc" or something to that effect. Then again my impression of the "American religious right" isn't particularly favourable; rather antiquated and ignorant. How much of that is realistic or stereotyped I don't know from personal experience. There was one incident about two years ago of a gay lad who got murdered... but given it was an isolated incident (that is the only one time I can recall of a supposed "gay hate crime") and you get senseless, reasonless murders and if we say 10% of men are gay, if 10% of people killed happen to be gay I wouldn't jump to a homophobic conclusion the same way the media might. I know plenty of gay men, and gay women, and been out with them carrying on as any couple might and get no more glanced at than a straight couple would. I mean, sure, television is awash with caracaturish gay people in a lot of ways, I think as part of their act. As best I know there's no openly gay footballers in the premier league (a welsh rugby player recently "came out") but that might be down to a) not being gay or not feeling the need to tell the world about their private life (the News of the World is bad enough as it is)... I'd find it very hard to believe they'd get any negative press for being so. As far as "you're gay" as an insult by kids... we had a lad by ours called Neil, and his nickname was always nigger when we were growing up. And no he wasn't black. If there's no racial malice in using it, then it's not a racist comment. The connutations of words come from their context. A seven year old on the playground knows fuck all about homosexuality, and I've called plenty of people cocksuckers and various other stuff without meaning a homophobic prejudice behind it. I don't even know how I'd react if I ever met a genuinely homophobic person. I'd probably pretend to be gay, tap him in the balls and suggestively say "Oh I could make you change teams". But I doubt I'll be feeling a stranger's sack anytime soon.

Maybe JR's just as sick as I am of people "coming out" like it's the 1960s and it's some "heroic" act. It's 2010. Really, do you even need to come out anymore? I mean the fact that anytime a gay person is killed it's portrayed as a "hate crime" doesn't help matters as far as the media is concerned, but aren't we basically at the point were a teenage homosexual can just be gay the way a straight person wouldn't feel the need to sit his/her family down and share the news with them. Hell, the only sexual revelation that I would consider someone brave to make in 2010 is that they've spent years fighting paedophile urges. Now that'd be ballsy.

Well, no, but the precedent was yet to be set. I'm still amazed Bret became a main eventer. At least with Shawn as soon as he turned into a singles guy in 1992 there was a star quality to him, certainly more than Bret. Of course, if we're lead to believe that his 1989 singles run was a result, in part, to him getting the second most amount of fan mail or however that story went, there was an established affinity with the guy. Bret was never a star in that "it" factor sense, he just had a strong resonance with the fans, and I think the company's past the point of running with a guy on that account, or they would push Christian. Heck, he has more conventional "natural charisma" than Bret.

Eh, I'm still not seeing it. It's not as if he'd jump off the top and the first and only point of contact with anything is his head smashing their chest/shoulder. He'd land in a front bump (head to the side) only his head would be on their chest, his whole body (at the very least his forearms and/or thighs) would take the impact, not just his head. If guys chests were made of bricks then, yeah, I'd get it but a standard back bump (and the possibility of smacking the back of your head) is far more likely to lead to concussion city than the headbutt. As far as "high risk" moves go it's a fairly comfortable landing, really.

I never got how Benoit's concussions were caused by the diving headbutt... it's a front bump with minimal contact made with his head on the guys chest (unless we're talking someone with a Scott Norton sized chest). You're far more likely to wind yourself than knock yourself loopy. Now, those ones with the chairs/belts are a different story, but they account for how many of the times he did the move, exactly?

How outdated does it make wrestling look when a gay (OK, bisexual) man is "controversial". What next, an atheist gimmick where a guy's quoting The God Delusion all the time?

Thats the greatest thing ever.

Whilst there's no doubt in my mind that Shawn was working the same, sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek "look what I have to do with this guy!" that he did with Nash at Mania 11... I still think the match worked. Really, I think the cartooney over-bumping is the way to go with Hogan anyway and it suits his whole "superhero" schtick. I'd sooner watch Hennig or Shawn just pinball off of everything than Bret try and lay out a more cerebral and "realistic" match with Hogan. It's not as if pin-balling in that way originated with Shawn, it's as much a part of old heel schtick as anything.

I enjoy the WWE for what it is... all the "corporate wrestling" criticisms are absolutely spot-on, and really I agree with everything Jerome said. Shawn/Taker, for instance, was very much a "conscious Wrestlemania epic", in particular the first match which was structured as "do some simple stuff; reset spot - dives; long back-and-forth finishing stretch". But I thought both matches worked for what they were even if I wouldn't take them over Bret/Owen, say, or Bret/Austin. Actually a better comparison would be Austin/Rock at 17 and I'd take that, too, in a heartbeat. I don't think WWE are much worse than any other company around right now, though, as Dan said. I enjoy All Japan a lot, but I wouldn't make an argument for them as having a great wrestling product or anything. I've no idea why guys can't seem to work their "action" around a story... but that seems to be the prevailing thing.

I guess only calling him "one of" the best big-match workers of all time as opposed to the undeniable, certified king is burying Shawn. I really like Shawn but even I had to pause for a second at that...

Shawn was really good, and even now is still better than a laughable amount of the roster. He's not in the GOAT debate, but neither's Bret or Flair for me (and like Jerome I'd take them over Shawn). At the same time the people who're calling him horrible, all these "500 wrestlers better than Shawn" generically listing guy after guy, are being more ridiculous than the "Shawn is the best ever" crowd. Guy's had a great career, made a lot of money, seems far more adjusted now than he did at the end of his first run, has left behind a good legacy in the company, and left on a real high note. I believe he wants Mania to've been his last match, and whilst I don't think that will end up being the case, good luck to the guy.